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Ban Pred and Degu v2
posted in Off Topic
181
#181
24 Frags +
LukasCZzxpWhy not start with pred and degu and have this as a precedent for future cases. What's really hard to understand about admins not wanting this shit in their community and taking a (possible overdue) stance on it?
Sorry but why do you want to start right now?
Why did they not start ages ago?
I dont think something like that happened for the first time.

Do you not realize how stupid this sounds? If something harmful has been happening that's literally an argument to have it stop.

Everyone cares only because it happened to uberchain, everyone is so nice because she is a girl, no one would defend random guy from prem.
I dont want to say something bad about uberchain i have nothing against her its just what i really think about it.

I agree that people do probably care more because it's uberchain and because of that I think it's good that she called them out, maybe that will set a precedent as well for other people to step forward (as it did, which seems clear as daylight from the last 500 posts or so).

Image this happening to me - fucking 17yo invite no name player calling for help on twitter
No one would actually care lol

Imagine if it did, wouldn't you actually be able to speak up about it right now, now that people actually realize that this affects a load of people. Wouldn't you be actually glad someone actually spoke up?

Can we just end this thread unban both,let pred apologize and move on?

If you think pred actually has any intention to seriously apologize, you're delusional.

Everyone is just going to shittalk others in community cuz one guy is on uberchains side and others on theirs,

You should just learn internet is not the right place to write that kind of stuff, if you have problems like this you should fix them irl, not online trust me.

Maybe etf2l isnt a place for people like pred.

[quote=LukasCZ][quote=zxp]Why not start with pred and degu and have this as a precedent for future cases. What's really hard to understand about admins not wanting this shit in their community and taking a (possible overdue) stance on it?[/quote]

Sorry but why do you want to start right now?
Why did they not start ages ago?
I dont think something like that happened for the first time.
[/quote]

Do you not realize how stupid this sounds? If something harmful has been happening that's literally an argument to have it stop.


[quote]Everyone cares only because it happened to uberchain, everyone is so nice because she is a girl, no one would defend random guy from prem.
I dont want to say something bad about uberchain i have nothing against her its just what i really think about it.[/quote]

I agree that people do probably care more because it's uberchain and because of that I think it's good that she called them out, maybe that will set a precedent as well for other people to step forward (as it did, which seems clear as daylight from the last 500 posts or so).

[quote]Image this happening to me - fucking 17yo invite no name player calling for help on twitter
No one would actually care lol[/quote]

Imagine if it did, wouldn't you actually be able to speak up about it right now, now that people actually realize that this affects a load of people. Wouldn't you be actually [b]glad[/b] someone actually spoke up?

[quote]Can we just end this thread unban both,let pred apologize and move on?[/quote]
If you think pred actually has any intention to seriously apologize, you're delusional.

[quote]Everyone is just going to shittalk others in community cuz one guy is on uberchains side and others on theirs,

You should just learn internet is not the right place to write that kind of stuff, if you have problems like this you should fix them irl, not online trust me.
[/quote]
Maybe etf2l isnt a place for people like pred.
182
#182
-20 Frags +
zxpLukasCZzxpWhy not start with pred and degu and have this as a precedent for future cases. What's really hard to understand about admins not wanting this shit in their community and taking a (possible overdue) stance on it?
Sorry but why do you want to start right now?
Why did they not start ages ago?
I dont think something like that happened for the first time.

Do you not realize how stupid this sounds? If something harmful has been happening that's literally an argument to have it stop.Everyone cares only because it happened to uberchain, everyone is so nice because she is a girl, no one would defend random guy from prem.
I dont want to say something bad about uberchain i have nothing against her its just what i really think about it.

I agree that people do probably care more because it's uberchain and because of that I think it's good that she called them out, maybe that will set a precedent as well for other people to step forward (as it did, which seems clear as daylight from the last 500 posts or so).
Image this happening to me - fucking 17yo invite no name player calling for help on twitter
No one would actually care lol

Imagine if it did, wouldn't you actually be able to speak up about it right now, now that people actually realize that this affects a load of people. Wouldn't you be actually glad someone actually spoke up?
Can we just end this thread unban both,let pred apologize and move on?If you think pred actually has any intention to seriously apologize, you're delusional.
Everyone is just going to shittalk others in community cuz one guy is on uberchains side and others on theirs,

You should just learn internet is not the right place to write that kind of stuff, if you have problems like this you should fix them irl, not online trust me.
Maybe etf2l isnt a place for people like pred.

Im not going to spend entire day posting messages what i really think about it because its pointless
You guys have your own head and you wont change your decision. We want to talk about it as a community but its not really happening.
I dont want to be mean or something i just wanted to say what i think about it.
Peace and love

[quote=zxp][quote=LukasCZ][quote=zxp]Why not start with pred and degu and have this as a precedent for future cases. What's really hard to understand about admins not wanting this shit in their community and taking a (possible overdue) stance on it?[/quote]

Sorry but why do you want to start right now?
Why did they not start ages ago?
I dont think something like that happened for the first time.
[/quote]

Do you not realize how stupid this sounds? If something harmful has been happening that's literally an argument to have it stop.
[quote]Everyone cares only because it happened to uberchain, everyone is so nice because she is a girl, no one would defend random guy from prem.
I dont want to say something bad about uberchain i have nothing against her its just what i really think about it.[/quote]

I agree that people do probably care more because it's uberchain and because of that I think it's good that she called them out, maybe that will set a precedent as well for other people to step forward (as it did, which seems clear as daylight from the last 500 posts or so).

[quote]Image this happening to me - fucking 17yo invite no name player calling for help on twitter
No one would actually care lol[/quote]

Imagine if it did, wouldn't you actually be able to speak up about it right now, now that people actually realize that this affects a load of people. Wouldn't you be actually [b]glad[/b] someone actually spoke up?

[quote]Can we just end this thread unban both,let pred apologize and move on?[/quote]
If you think pred actually has any intention to seriously apologize, you're delusional.

[quote]Everyone is just going to shittalk others in community cuz one guy is on uberchains side and others on theirs,

You should just learn internet is not the right place to write that kind of stuff, if you have problems like this you should fix them irl, not online trust me.
[/quote]
Maybe etf2l isnt a place for people like pred.[/quote]

Im not going to spend entire day posting messages what i really think about it because its pointless
You guys have your own head and you wont change your decision. We want to talk about it as a community but its not really happening.
I dont want to be mean or something i just wanted to say what i think about it.
Peace and love
183
#183
23 Frags +
kaidusMy thoughts on the recent events and a statement on Credu's loadout:
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqkb1j

The big thing I notice is that things go from a one time joke (which can be funny) to months being a meme. It grows old over time, and at one point, when it doesn't stop because it's just so set as a meme, you either end up just blocking and muting everyone who says it until you give no reaction; or you pop off and yell at them to piss off which results in being made fun of further. At least from my point of view, this is how it was handled when being a meme angered me too much. Some people are still blocked from months ago since they offer nothing other than these memes in conversation.

I definitely agree that the harassment definitely does drive people away from the community. It's why I'm a member of my current circlejerk, because people in it don't just meme me constantly.

[quote=kaidus]My thoughts on the recent events and a statement on Credu's loadout:
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqkb1j[/quote]

The big thing I notice is that things go from a one time joke (which can be funny) to months being a meme. It grows old over time, and at one point, when it doesn't stop because it's just so set as a meme, you either end up just blocking and muting everyone who says it until you give no reaction; or you pop off and yell at them to piss off which results in being made fun of further. At least from my point of view, this is how it was handled when being a meme angered me too much. Some people are still blocked from months ago since they offer nothing other than these memes in conversation.

I definitely agree that the harassment definitely does drive people away from the community. It's why I'm a member of my current circlejerk, because people in it don't just meme me constantly.
184
#184
27 Frags +
LukasCZYou guys have your own head and you wont change your decision. We want to talk about it as a community but its not really happening.

we're literally talking about it as a community right now. you are literally doing exactly what you are saying won't happen.
Multiple leagues have now publicized their stances on harrasment. Sponsors have put their foot down on where they put their money, depending on said stances. People are coming out about their experiences, and skeletons are being dragged out the closet. And you want to stop this because..?

[quote=LukasCZ]
You guys have your own head and you wont change your decision. We want to talk about it as a community but its not really happening.
[/quote]

we're literally talking about it as a community right now. you are literally doing exactly what you are saying won't happen.
Multiple leagues have now publicized their stances on harrasment. Sponsors have put their foot down on where they put their money, depending on said stances. People are coming out about their experiences, and skeletons are being dragged out the closet. And you want to stop this because..?
185
#185
17 Frags +

im not really apposed to the punishments for toxicity, but the part thats annoying is that there are so many people using this situation as a way to wipe their own slate clean and acting as if they have been an advocate of tf2 becoming a safe space for years.

Also the argument that credu's weapons are 'forgotten inside jokes' is so laughable when in this same thread people are bringing up old steam names as evidence of someone being racist which could also be a 'forgotten inside joke'.

Again, im not saying what pred and degu said is justifiable in any way, im just saying some of the reasoning behind other people getting a free pass for the same shit is so stupid.

im not really apposed to the punishments for toxicity, but the part thats annoying is that there are so many people using this situation as a way to wipe their own slate clean and acting as if they have been an advocate of tf2 becoming a safe space for years.

Also the argument that credu's weapons are 'forgotten inside jokes' is so laughable when in this same thread people are bringing up old steam names as evidence of someone being racist which could also be a 'forgotten inside joke'.

Again, im not saying what pred and degu said is justifiable in any way, im just saying some of the reasoning behind other people getting a free pass for the same shit is so stupid.
186
#186
Momentum Mod
14 Frags +

much love kaido

Jynxiiim not really apposed to the punishments for toxicity, but the part thats annoying is that there are so many people using this situation as a way to wipe their own slate clean and acting as if they have been an advocate of tf2 becoming a safe space for years.

Also the argument that credu's weapons are 'forgotten inside jokes' is so laughable when in this same thread people are bringing up old steam names as evidence of someone being racist which could also be a 'forgotten inside joke'.

Again, im not saying what pred and degu said is justifiable in any way, im just saying some of the reasoning behind other people getting a free pass for the same shit is so stupid.

he said he's fine with receiving the same punishment as their team

EDIT: also other teams that did something similar

much love kaido

[quote=Jynxii]im not really apposed to the punishments for toxicity, but the part thats annoying is that there are so many people using this situation as a way to wipe their own slate clean and acting as if they have been an advocate of tf2 becoming a safe space for years.

Also the argument that credu's weapons are 'forgotten inside jokes' is so laughable when in this same thread people are bringing up old steam names as evidence of someone being racist which could also be a 'forgotten inside joke'.

Again, im not saying what pred and degu said is justifiable in any way, im just saying some of the reasoning behind other people getting a free pass for the same shit is so stupid.[/quote]

he said he's fine with receiving the same punishment as their team

EDIT: also other teams that did something similar
187
#187
2 Frags +
Hellbentmuch love kaido
Jynxiiim not really apposed to the punishments for toxicity, but the part thats annoying is that there are so many people using this situation as a way to wipe their own slate clean and acting as if they have been an advocate of tf2 becoming a safe space for years.

Also the argument that credu's weapons are 'forgotten inside jokes' is so laughable when in this same thread people are bringing up old steam names as evidence of someone being racist which could also be a 'forgotten inside joke'.

Again, im not saying what pred and degu said is justifiable in any way, im just saying some of the reasoning behind other people getting a free pass for the same shit is so stupid.

he said he's fine with receiving the same punishment as their team

they wont be punished because they apologized for credu

[quote=Hellbent]much love kaido

[quote=Jynxii]im not really apposed to the punishments for toxicity, but the part thats annoying is that there are so many people using this situation as a way to wipe their own slate clean and acting as if they have been an advocate of tf2 becoming a safe space for years.

Also the argument that credu's weapons are 'forgotten inside jokes' is so laughable when in this same thread people are bringing up old steam names as evidence of someone being racist which could also be a 'forgotten inside joke'.

Again, im not saying what pred and degu said is justifiable in any way, im just saying some of the reasoning behind other people getting a free pass for the same shit is so stupid.[/quote]

he said he's fine with receiving the same punishment as their team[/quote]

they wont be punished because they apologized for credu
188
#188
18 Frags +

Geel said in part 1 of this post that he will not sponsor any event that does not have rules about players behavior. Many people has said that it will be harder to get new sponsors with a toxic community. But if ETF2L does nothing after Geel's anouncement they will probably loose a sponsor aswell. I understand very well that ETF2L would rather ban a guy for 2 months rather than loosing a sponsor, and making it harder to get new ones in the future.
I am not linked to ETF2L's administration in any way. I do not think sponsors is the only reason for the ban, but i think it might be a reason for ETF2L to give the punishment they did.

Geel said in part 1 of this post that he will not sponsor any event that does not have rules about players behavior. Many people has said that it will be harder to get new sponsors with a toxic community. But if ETF2L does nothing after Geel's anouncement they will probably loose a sponsor aswell. I understand very well that ETF2L would rather ban a guy for 2 months rather than loosing a sponsor, and making it harder to get new ones in the future.
I am not linked to ETF2L's administration in any way. I do not think sponsors is the only reason for the ban, but i think it might be a reason for ETF2L to give the punishment they did.
189
#189
-48 Frags +

When sjw invade tf2 forum

When sjw invade tf2 forum
190
#190
21 Frags +

Tbh I think all that really matters is that from now on there's a concerted effort for everyone to stamp out 'toxicity'.

No point arguing about past examples tbh. All that really matters is what happens from now on.

Tbh I think all that really matters is that from now on there's a concerted effort for everyone to stamp out 'toxicity'.

No point arguing about past examples tbh. All that really matters is what happens from now on.
191
#191
28 Frags +

I'm so glad that this has come up. It's been a problem in our community for far too long for far too many people, including me. I'm happy that others have been brave enough to speak out and it's really encouraging to me, but I'm not sure if I'm ready yet to speak here about some of the harassment I've faced from some members of our community. Maybe I'll share eventually, but regardless, I hope that we are able to come to an agreement and stand in solidarity against toxicity. It's just common sense, and it will help us grow if we are open, friendly and inviting to all, new and old.

I'm so glad that this has come up. It's been a problem in our community for far too long for far too many people, including me. I'm happy that others have been brave enough to speak out and it's really encouraging to me, but I'm not sure if I'm ready yet to speak here about some of the harassment I've faced from some members of our community. Maybe I'll share eventually, but regardless, I hope that we are able to come to an agreement and stand in solidarity against toxicity. It's just common sense, and it will help us grow if we are open, friendly and inviting to all, new and old.
192
#192
-52 Frags +

i need to type out a nerd essay to get +upfrags

i need to type out a nerd essay to get +upfrags
193
#193
-44 Frags +
kaidusMy thoughts on the recent events and a statement on Credu's loadout:
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqkb1j

Stop the damage control.

Your team uploaded a video about b4nny on your official youtube channel with the sole purpose to hurt his reputation and make him look bad. This is okay though? You playing victims and farming sympathy points despite the fact that you did the exact same thing to b4nny? I know he is controversial and I'm not a huge fan of him myself, but still you publishing this wall of text on how it has happened to you, how it has been a problem for years, how you actively tried to not be part of it, even though you were ALWAYS a part of it? And again, you try to make someone else look bad again by redirecting hate towards them in your statement. There was NEVER any need to mention nunya/bin in your post, but I guess it is fun to see some more heads roll.

https://imgur.com/a/RxyMCwU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln51NrJG3sc

You are the very epitome of what is wrong with this community and this discussion. All this talk about professionalism and being a role model. You already harassed someone else on a LARGE scale (almost 14.000 people have seen the b4nny video), but someone else has done it to you and they are the devil now and are the fault for this game dying and more and more people walking away from it? I'm pretty sure people on your team participated in this thread and on the Degu & Pred hate, but you refuse to take responsibility for your teams actions? You all have done it at some point, but saying "but young, competitively-minded people are very easily sucked into the atmosphere that surrounds them" makes it all okay? Why is it not okay that Pred & Degu have done it? Because the victim was Uberchain? Do you think it is fair that there is a prize money deduction, but at the same time think that your team doesn't deserve punishment for the Credu thing, which is essentially the exact same situation?

" I see no reason why there should be any need for further action against us or any other team."

This is a big joke and you know it.

[quote=kaidus]My thoughts on the recent events and a statement on Credu's loadout:
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqkb1j[/quote]

Stop the damage control.

Your team uploaded a video about b4nny on your official youtube channel with the sole purpose to hurt his reputation and make him look bad. This is okay though? You playing victims and farming sympathy points despite the fact that you did the exact same thing to b4nny? I know he is controversial and I'm not a huge fan of him myself, but still you publishing this wall of text on how it has happened to you, how it has been a problem for years, how you actively tried to not be part of it, even though you were ALWAYS a part of it? And again, you try to make someone else look bad again by redirecting hate towards them in your statement. There was NEVER any need to mention nunya/bin in your post, but I guess it is fun to see some more heads roll.

https://imgur.com/a/RxyMCwU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln51NrJG3sc

You are the very epitome of what is wrong with this community and this discussion. All this talk about professionalism and being a role model. You already harassed someone else on a LARGE scale (almost 14.000 people have seen the b4nny video), but someone else has done it to you and they are the devil now and are the fault for this game dying and more and more people walking away from it? I'm pretty sure people on your team participated in this thread and on the Degu & Pred hate, but you refuse to take responsibility for your teams actions? You all have done it at some point, but saying "but young, competitively-minded people are very easily sucked into the atmosphere that surrounds them" makes it all okay? Why is it not okay that Pred & Degu have done it? Because the victim was Uberchain? Do you think it is fair that there is a prize money deduction, but at the same time think that your team doesn't deserve punishment for the Credu thing, which is essentially the exact same situation?

" I see no reason why there should be any need for further action against us or any other team."

This is a big joke and you know it.
194
#194
49 Frags +

shittalking b4nny, esp in response to how much shit b4nny has talked about them =/= calling him slurs

shittalking b4nny, esp in response to how much shit b4nny has talked about them =/= calling him slurs
195
#195
1 Frags +
henloimhalfWhen sjw invade tf2 forum

2014 ended 4 years ago

Please leave this forum

[quote=henloimhalf]When sjw invade tf2 forum[/quote]

2014 ended 4 years ago

Please leave this forum
196
#196
39 Frags +
GazkaidusMy thoughts on the recent events and a statement on Credu's loadout:
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqkb1j

Stop the damage control.

Your team uploaded a video about b4nny on your official youtube channel with the sole purpose to hurt his reputation and make him look bad. This is okay though? You playing victims and farming sympathy points despite the fact that you did the exact same thing to b4nny? I know he is controversial and I'm not a huge fan of him myself, but still you publishing this wall of text on how it has happened to you, how it has been a problem for years, how you actively tried to not be part of it, even though you were ALWAYS a part of it? And again, you try to make someone else look bad again by redirecting hate towards them in your statement. There was NEVER any need to mention nunya/bin in your post, but I guess it is fun to see some more heads roll.

https://imgur.com/a/RxyMCwU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln51NrJG3sc

You are the very epitome of what is wrong with this community and this discussion. All this talk about professionalism and being a role model. You already harassed someone else on a LARGE scale (almost 14.000 people have seen the b4nny video), but someone else has done it to you and they are the devil now and are the fault for this game dying and more and more people walking away from it? I'm pretty sure people on your team participated in this thread and on the Degu & Pred hate, but you refuse to take responsibility for your teams actions? You all have done it at some point, but saying "but young, competitively-minded people are very easily sucked into the atmosphere that surrounds them" makes it all okay? Why is it not okay that Pred & Degu have done it? Because the victim was Uberchain? Do you think it is fair that there is a prize money deduction, but at the same time think that your team doesn't deserve punishment for the Credu thing, which is essentially the exact same situation?

" I see no reason why there should be any need for further action against us or any other team."

This is a big joke and you know it.

It's not harassment to call out other people's toxic behaviour or criticise people publicly.

It is harassment to call someone "ugly gook cunt" and endorsing other people who do this.

You are going through some serious mental gymnastics in order to justify your criticism, and it's not lending credit to your argument at all.

but at the same time think that your team doesn't deserve punishment for the Credu thing, which is essentially the exact same situation?

Not sure you even read his statement at all, that's the opposite of what he said.

[quote=Gaz][quote=kaidus]My thoughts on the recent events and a statement on Credu's loadout:
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqkb1j[/quote]

Stop the damage control.

Your team uploaded a video about b4nny on your official youtube channel with the sole purpose to hurt his reputation and make him look bad. This is okay though? You playing victims and farming sympathy points despite the fact that you did the exact same thing to b4nny? I know he is controversial and I'm not a huge fan of him myself, but still you publishing this wall of text on how it has happened to you, how it has been a problem for years, how you actively tried to not be part of it, even though you were ALWAYS a part of it? And again, you try to make someone else look bad again by redirecting hate towards them in your statement. There was NEVER any need to mention nunya/bin in your post, but I guess it is fun to see some more heads roll.

https://imgur.com/a/RxyMCwU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln51NrJG3sc

You are the very epitome of what is wrong with this community and this discussion. All this talk about professionalism and being a role model. You already harassed someone else on a LARGE scale (almost 14.000 people have seen the b4nny video), but someone else has done it to you and they are the devil now and are the fault for this game dying and more and more people walking away from it? I'm pretty sure people on your team participated in this thread and on the Degu & Pred hate, but you refuse to take responsibility for your teams actions? You all have done it at some point, but saying "but young, competitively-minded people are very easily sucked into the atmosphere that surrounds them" makes it all okay? Why is it not okay that Pred & Degu have done it? Because the victim was Uberchain? Do you think it is fair that there is a prize money deduction, but at the same time think that your team doesn't deserve punishment for the Credu thing, which is essentially the exact same situation?

" I see no reason why there should be any need for further action against us or any other team."

This is a big joke and you know it.[/quote]

It's not harassment to call out other people's toxic behaviour or criticise people publicly.

It is harassment to call someone "ugly gook cunt" and endorsing other people who do this.

You are going through some serious mental gymnastics in order to justify your criticism, and it's not lending credit to your argument at all.

[quote]but at the same time think that your team doesn't deserve punishment for the Credu thing, which is essentially the exact same situation?[/quote]
Not sure you even read his statement at all, that's the opposite of what he said.
197
#197
-34 Frags +
Brimstoneshittalking b4nny, esp in response to how much shit b4nny has talked about them =/= calling him slurs

So it's okay to make an entire video out of it? One in which they carefully cut together parts in an effort to ridicule him and make him look bad in front of the entire community? That is somehow not harassment, trying to make a big group of people hate one single individual purposefully? Isn't that essentially the same thing with the "bug" situation? Why is the video okay but the "meme" isn't, if both happen to ridicule the target? Also keep in mind that the video was posted on the official se7en channel, so how again is this professional?

ondkajaIt's not harassment to call out other people's toxic behaviour or criticise people publicly.
It is harassment to call someone "ugly gook cunt" and endorsing other people who do this.

Not sure you even read his statement at all, that's the opposite of what he said.

You are going through some serious mental gymnastics if you really think harassment only starts with racism.
Also apparently you didn't read the full statement, because I quoted Kaidus at the end and I'll do it again just for you.

" I see no reason why there should be any need for further action against us or any other team."

Just because he stated earlier that they would accept punishment, doesn't mean they think they should be getting one.

[quote=Brimstone]shittalking b4nny, esp in response to how much shit b4nny has talked about them =/= calling him slurs[/quote]

So it's okay to make an entire video out of it? One in which they carefully cut together parts in an effort to ridicule him and make him look bad in front of the entire community? That is somehow not harassment, trying to make a big group of people hate one single individual purposefully? Isn't that essentially the same thing with the "bug" situation? Why is the video okay but the "meme" isn't, if both happen to ridicule the target? Also keep in mind that the video was posted on the official se7en channel, so how again is this professional?

[quote=ondkaja]
It's not harassment to call out other people's toxic behaviour or criticise people publicly.
It is harassment to call someone "ugly gook cunt" and endorsing other people who do this.

Not sure you even read his statement at all, that's the opposite of what he said.[/quote]
You are going through some serious mental gymnastics if you really think harassment only starts with racism.
Also apparently you didn't read the full statement, because I quoted Kaidus at the end and I'll do it again just for you.

" I see no reason why there should be any need for further action against us or any other team."

Just because he stated earlier that they would accept punishment, doesn't mean they think they should be getting one.
198
#198
10 Frags +
GazYou are going through some serious mental gymnastics if you really think harassment only starts with racism.
Also apparently you didn't read the full statement, because I quoted Kaidus at the end and I'll do it again just for you.

" I see no reason why there should be any need for further action against us or any other team."

Just because he stated earlier that they would accept punishment, doesn't mean they think they should be getting one.

I don't think harassment only starts with racism.

I also didn't interpret that statement as "we don't deserve a punishment".

EDIT: The purpose of me posting this is not to defend 7 which it might come off as. I just genuinely think you are comparing a bank robbery with someone shoplifting and it comes off as very insensitive.

[quote=Gaz]
You are going through some serious mental gymnastics if you really think harassment only starts with racism.
Also apparently you didn't read the full statement, because I quoted Kaidus at the end and I'll do it again just for you.

" I see no reason why there should be any need for further action against us or any other team."

Just because he stated earlier that they would accept punishment, doesn't mean they think they should be getting one.[/quote]

I don't think harassment only starts with racism.

I also didn't interpret that statement as "we don't deserve a punishment".

EDIT: The purpose of me posting this is not to defend 7 which it might come off as. I just genuinely think you are comparing a bank robbery with someone shoplifting and it comes off as very insensitive.
199
#199
22 Frags +
henloimhalfWhen sjw invade tf2 forum

not supporting harassing =/= being an sjw :popo:

[quote=henloimhalf]When sjw invade tf2 forum[/quote]

not supporting harassing =/= being an sjw :popo:
200
#200
4 Frags +
copperri need to type out a nerd essay to get +upfrags

T_T

[quote=copperr]i need to type out a nerd essay to get +upfrags[/quote]


T_T
201
#201
18 Frags +

b4nny massively reeing at a bad player while pretending to be Mr Friendly Help The Game And Noobs is hypocritical and the video points that out.
dont think its harassment but definitely very dumb that they post it on their Official Org youtube and pretend like the IM player in the video was new
also if etf2l want to posthumously ban for racism then credu definitely deserves some punishment

b4nny massively reeing at a bad player while pretending to be Mr Friendly Help The Game And Noobs is hypocritical and the video points that out.
dont think its harassment but definitely very dumb that they post it on their Official Org youtube and pretend like the IM player in the video was new
also if etf2l want to posthumously ban for racism then credu definitely deserves some punishment
202
#202
-20 Frags +
ondkajaI don't think harassment only starts with racism.

I guess it only starts when the victim is liked by the majority of the community or can you explain further? So why exactly is this video okay? It is certainly not criticizing b4nny the way it is structured and named.

ondkajaI also didn't interpret that statement as "we don't deserve a punishment".

The threat of having prize money removed and players banned is the only reason this has been addressed by kaidus in the first place. If he actually means it, and it's not just damage control, he would follow up and apply the prize deduction to his team voluntarily. Se7en has pretty much done the exact same thing, so why exactly do they deserve to not receive the same punishment in terms of bans and deductions? Because they apologized for it?

[quote=ondkaja]
I don't think harassment only starts with racism.
[/quote]
I guess it only starts when the victim is liked by the majority of the community or can you explain further? So why exactly is this video okay? It is certainly not criticizing b4nny the way it is structured and named.

[quote=ondkaja]
I also didn't interpret that statement as "we don't deserve a punishment".[/quote]
The threat of having prize money removed and players banned is the only reason this has been addressed by kaidus in the first place. If he actually means it, and it's not just damage control, he would follow up and apply the prize deduction to his team voluntarily. Se7en has pretty much done the exact same thing, so why exactly do they deserve to not receive the same punishment in terms of bans and deductions? Because they apologized for it?
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#203
14 Frags +

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#204
-10 Frags +

i can guarantee that the 7 video did inspire quite a number of people to start to confront banny about his toxicity, which, giving banny's stubbornness to others' viewpoints (especially about himself), would have led to harassment since they would feel like banny isnt listening to their seemingly good-hearted words. (I worded that kinda terribly but I hope you understand)

Just because you call out someone for being bad, doesnt make you automatically good.

i can guarantee that the 7 video did inspire quite a number of people to start to confront banny about his toxicity, which, giving banny's stubbornness to others' viewpoints (especially about himself), would have led to harassment since they would feel like banny isnt listening to their seemingly good-hearted words. (I worded that kinda terribly but I hope you understand)

Just because you call out someone for being bad, doesnt make you automatically good.
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#205
38 Frags +

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206
#206
-22 Frags +
Firehow is this even an argument, calling other people out for toxicity is toxic now? ban uberchain because she made pred and degu look bad and now theyre also getting harrassed? ban everyone who has exposed someone else here because it made them look bad???

Are you telling me that a 600+ post thread (2 threads actually) that has engulfed a large part of the comp tf2 community (and some casual scenes i.e. uncle dane etc.) cant be considered toxic? I feel like the actual meaning of toxic has been forgotten and is just being used as a substitute for being a dick. Just because a word has negative connotations does not mean it is always used in a negative way

The actual meaning of toxic is 'poisonous', i certainly feel like this website has been poisoned by this drama since all other discussions have been halted and its all anyone can talk about

[quote=Fire]how is this even an argument, calling other people out for toxicity is toxic now? ban uberchain because she made pred and degu look bad and now theyre also getting harrassed? ban everyone who has exposed someone else here because it made them look bad???[/quote]

Are you telling me that a 600+ post thread (2 threads actually) that has engulfed a large part of the comp tf2 community (and some casual scenes i.e. uncle dane etc.) cant be considered toxic? I feel like the actual meaning of toxic has been forgotten and is just being used as a substitute for being a dick. Just because a word has negative connotations does not mean it is always used in a negative way

The actual meaning of toxic is 'poisonous', i certainly feel like this website has been poisoned by this drama since all other discussions have been halted and its all anyone can talk about
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#207
20 Frags +
GazI guess it only starts when the victim is liked by the majority of the community or can you explain further? So why exactly is this video okay? It is certainly not criticizing b4nny the way it is structured and named.

Stalking behaviour, threats of violence, racist and sexist comments (regardless of gender/race) or otherwise severely insensitive comments with malicious intent, homophobic comments, transphobic comments, etc. It really doesn't matter who is the victim. The video was criticising b4nny's behaviour and not his person. I don't think se7en should have posted that video, but you've applied no nuance to the situation and you are comparing someone who got harassed unprovoked after opening up sexual abuse to someone who criticised a player for being toxic to another player. Do you think a shoplifter should get the same punishment as a bank robber?

[quote=Gaz]
I guess it only starts when the victim is liked by the majority of the community or can you explain further? So why exactly is this video okay? It is certainly not criticizing b4nny the way it is structured and named.
[/quote]

Stalking behaviour, threats of violence, racist and sexist comments (regardless of gender/race) or otherwise severely insensitive comments with malicious intent, homophobic comments, transphobic comments, etc. It really doesn't matter who is the victim. The video was criticising b4nny's behaviour and not his person. I don't think se7en should have posted that video, but you've applied no nuance to the situation and you are comparing someone who got harassed unprovoked after opening up sexual abuse to someone who criticised a player for being toxic to another player. Do you think a shoplifter should get the same punishment as a bank robber?
208
#208
-34 Frags +
ondkaja
Stalking behaviour, threats of violence, racist and sexist comments (regardless of gender/race) or otherwise severely insensitive comments with malicious intent, homophobic comments, transphobic comments. It really doesn't matter who is the victim. The video was criticising b4nny's behaviour and not his person. I don't think se7en should have posted that video, but you've applied no nuance to the situation and you are comparing someone who got harassed unprovoked after opening up sexual abuse to someone who got criticised for being toxic to another player. Do you think a shoplifter should get the same punishment as a bank robber?

I agree with you on when harassment starts, but you sadly still imply that the video is meant to criticize b4nny, when it is not. It is what you would categorize under "Stalking behavior" and "comment with mailicious intent". You don't release a video like that if you intend to criticize someone, it is not constructive, nothing, it is simply clips cut together, all b4nny clips in less favorable situations to show people "See this guy you like? He is a fucking asshole". Also remember the context, they had fat beef during that time and you surely don't criticize in a constructive manner when you are angry at someone else. Don't fool yourselves, I could take a rapper dissing another rapper and reduce that to "It's actually just criticism, chill bro"

B4nny video aside, what about the Credu situation? How is that any different other than that racism was applied indirectly instead of directly? Do you think apologizing just solves this problem? Saying "Sorry, we already have taken action and removed him from the roster, please dont punish us" makes this all okay? They obviously had no power over Credu, just like the punished team had no power over Pred, so do you think it is fair that one team gets off scot free while the other doesn't? How come Pred's entire team is punished, but all of Se7en might be left unpunished?
Do you think a bank robber should receive a perhaps lighter punishment just because he apologizes for it or has a good reputation within his community?

[quote=ondkaja]

Stalking behaviour, threats of violence, racist and sexist comments (regardless of gender/race) or otherwise severely insensitive comments with malicious intent, homophobic comments, transphobic comments. It really doesn't matter who is the victim. The video was criticising b4nny's behaviour and not his person. I don't think se7en should have posted that video, but you've applied no nuance to the situation and you are comparing someone who got harassed unprovoked after opening up sexual abuse to someone who got criticised for being toxic to another player. Do you think a shoplifter should get the same punishment as a bank robber?[/quote]

I agree with you on when harassment starts, but you sadly still imply that the video is meant to criticize b4nny, when it is not. It is what you would categorize under "Stalking behavior" and "comment with mailicious intent". You don't release a video like that if you intend to criticize someone, it is not constructive, nothing, it is simply clips cut together, all b4nny clips in less favorable situations to show people "See this guy you like? He is a fucking asshole". Also remember the context, they had fat beef during that time and you surely don't criticize in a constructive manner when you are angry at someone else. Don't fool yourselves, I could take a rapper dissing another rapper and reduce that to "It's actually just criticism, chill bro"

B4nny video aside, what about the Credu situation? How is that any different other than that racism was applied indirectly instead of directly? Do you think apologizing just solves this problem? Saying "Sorry, we already have taken action and removed him from the roster, please dont punish us" makes this all okay? They obviously had no power over Credu, just like the punished team had no power over Pred, so do you think it is fair that one team gets off scot free while the other doesn't? How come Pred's entire team is punished, but all of Se7en might be left unpunished?
Do you think a bank robber should receive a perhaps lighter punishment just because he apologizes for it or has a good reputation within his community?
209
#209
48 Frags +

Stop with the strawmen, you're constantly assuming I have opinions I don't have. I'm done discussing with you.

Stop with the strawmen, you're constantly assuming I have opinions I don't have. I'm done discussing with you.
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#210
4 Frags +

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