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Ban Pred and Degu v2
posted in Off Topic
241
#241
6 Frags +
jediflamastercryosisjediflamasterThis disgrace makes me embarassed to play in ETF2L. This isn't just about prem, banning people for calling someone a gook puts the entire EU comp community in a bad light. The message this sends is that the biggest tf2 league in europe cares more about what people say than how well they play.
Way to miss the point. This is supposed to send the message that no matter how good you are, if you are an asshole that means you're not welcome.

If only people could both play well and be decent human beings.
But that's exactly the same message isn't it? And It's a really bad one if you ask me.

Why should the league care how good players are? Are we going to put up rules where if you're too bad, you get a season ban? How is saying "Hi, we don't want these racists, who happen to play the game well, to represent what we stand for, thanks" a bad message?

[quote=jediflamaster][quote=cryosis][quote=jediflamaster]This disgrace makes me embarassed to play in ETF2L. This isn't just about prem, banning people for calling someone a gook puts the entire EU comp community in a bad light. The message this sends is that the biggest tf2 league in europe cares more about what people say than how well they play.[/quote]

Way to miss the point. This is supposed to send the message that no matter how good you are, if you are an asshole that means you're not welcome.

If only people could both play well and be decent human beings.[/quote]
But that's exactly the same message isn't it? And It's a really bad one if you ask me.[/quote]

Why should the league care how good players are? Are we going to put up rules where if you're too bad, you get a season ban? How is saying "Hi, we don't want these racists, who happen to play the game well, to represent what we stand for, thanks" a bad message?
242
#242
17 Frags +
jediflamasterBut that's exactly the same message isn't it? And It's a really bad one if you ask me.

One portraits the problem as "snowflakes getting triggered" (if you unironically think that then you should just stop posting and go back to reddit)

The other is a call for people to realize that they are (supposedly) grown up adults and should act as such.

[quote=jediflamaster]
But that's exactly the same message isn't it? And It's a really bad one if you ask me.[/quote]

One portraits the problem as "snowflakes getting triggered" (if you unironically think that then you should just stop posting and go back to reddit)

The other is a call for people to realize that they are (supposedly) grown up adults and should act as such.
243
#243
7 Frags +

they are already banned why is this still going on

they are already banned why is this still going on
244
#244
37 Frags +
jediflamasterThis disgrace makes me embarassed to play in ETF2L. This isn't just about prem, banning people for calling someone a gook puts the entire EU comp community in a bad light. The message this sends is that the biggest tf2 league in europe cares more about what people say than how well they play.

what

[quote=jediflamaster]This disgrace makes me embarassed to play in ETF2L. This isn't just about prem, banning people for calling someone a gook puts the entire EU comp community in a bad light. The message this sends is that the biggest tf2 league in europe cares more about what people say than how well they play.[/quote]

what
245
#245
-17 Frags +

hallo im 22 yo bisexual and very concerned about etf2ls reputation so i made this new logo for etf2l
so everyone can be accepted as they are and not discriminated by their sexuality and gender identity

https://imgur.com/a/ezFWqVZ

hallo im 22 yo bisexual and very concerned about etf2ls reputation so i made this new logo for etf2l
so everyone can be accepted as they are and not discriminated by their sexuality and gender identity

https://imgur.com/a/ezFWqVZ
246
#246
28 Frags +
jediflamaster

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/424322448260071435/477247513171197962/Screenshot_20180810-004945__01.jpg

[quote=jediflamaster][/quote]

[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/424322448260071435/477247513171197962/Screenshot_20180810-004945__01.jpg[/img]
247
#247
27 Frags +

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459957763741843459/477250072053022721/mgemebro.PNG

mge me bro

[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459957763741843459/477250072053022721/mgemebro.PNG[/img]
mge me bro
248
#248
23 Frags +

wtf is wrong with this jedi guy

wtf is wrong with this jedi guy
249
#249
11 Frags +
dishsoapwtf is wrong with this jedi guy

Too much time on 4chan.

[quote=dishsoap]wtf is wrong with this jedi guy[/quote]
Too much time on 4chan.
250
#250
61 Frags +
dishsoapwtf is wrong with this jedi guy

he mains pyro

[quote=dishsoap]wtf is wrong with this jedi guy[/quote]

he mains pyro
251
#251
-38 Frags +
dishsoapwtf is wrong with this jedi guy

he's not wrong now, is he

[quote=dishsoap]wtf is wrong with this jedi guy[/quote]
he's not wrong now, is he
252
#252
8 Frags +
jewpoon69he's not wrong now, is he

Majority of people seem to disagree with him and you, so please explain.

[quote=jewpoon69]
he's not wrong now, is he[/quote]

Majority of people seem to disagree with him and you, so please explain.
253
#253
30 Frags +
cryosisjewpoon69he's not wrong now, is he
Majority of people seem to disagree with him and you, so please explain.

i don't think a debate with "jewpoon69" is going to be fruitful

[quote=cryosis][quote=jewpoon69]
he's not wrong now, is he[/quote]

Majority of people seem to disagree with him and you, so please explain.[/quote]
i don't think a debate with "jewpoon69" is going to be fruitful
254
#254
10 Frags +
cryosisjewpoon69he's not wrong now, is he
Majority of people seem to disagree with him and you, so please explain.

https://i.imgur.com/L1mGVi6.png

[quote=cryosis][quote=jewpoon69]
he's not wrong now, is he[/quote]

Majority of people seem to disagree with him and you, so please explain.[/quote]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/L1mGVi6.png[/img]
255
#255
-19 Frags +
cryosis
Why should the league care how good players are?

Because that's what leagues are for. Competition and good players succeeding.

cryosisAre we going to put up rules where if you're too bad, you get a season ban?

No, but when you're bad you stay in open like a loser. Isn't that shame punishment enough?

cryosis How is saying "Hi, we don't want these racists, who happen to play the game well, to represent what we stand for, thanks" a bad message?

You can do a pr stunt like that without directly affecting the competition and other players. Could just give them both warnings and cut just Pred's winnings. Comp TF2 is dying fast enough as it is, no need to make it faster by banning two prem players and punishing 5 people hardly related to the incident monetarily.

Also stop conflating namecalling with racism.

[quote=cryosis]

Why should the league care how good players are?[/quote]
Because that's what leagues are for. Competition and good players succeeding.
[quote=cryosis]Are we going to put up rules where if you're too bad, you get a season ban?[/quote]
No, but when you're bad you stay in open like a loser. Isn't that shame punishment enough?
[quote=cryosis] How is saying "Hi, we don't want these racists, who happen to play the game well, to represent what we stand for, thanks" a bad message?[/quote]
You can do a pr stunt like that without directly affecting the competition and other players. Could just give them both warnings and cut just Pred's winnings. Comp TF2 is dying fast enough as it is, no need to make it faster by banning two prem players and punishing 5 people hardly related to the incident monetarily.

Also stop conflating namecalling with racism.
256
#256
16 Frags +

stop posting please

stop posting please
257
#257
9 Frags +

Okay let me get this straight, we as an organisation shouldn't ban good players because they succeeded as a good player. Furthermore they can do/say whatever they want just because they are good players.

I think you are missing the point that these players are indeed the face of a league by playing at the highest level and should therefore act accordingly to the role they play for the league. People will always watch their actions more no matter what happens.

Okay let me get this straight, we as an organisation shouldn't ban good players because they succeeded as a good player. Furthermore they can do/say whatever they want just because they are good players.

I think you are missing the point that these players are indeed the face of a league by playing at the highest level and should therefore act accordingly to the role they play for the league. People will always watch their actions more no matter what happens.
258
#258
34 Frags +

Who would have thought the pyro mge main would have such silly ideas

Who would have thought the pyro mge main would have such silly ideas
259
#259
-4 Frags +
GrapeJuiceIIIhttps://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459957763741843459/477250072053022721/mgemebro.PNG
mge me bro

someone summon vis to defend uberchains honour

[quote=GrapeJuiceIII][img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459957763741843459/477250072053022721/mgemebro.PNG[/img]
mge me bro[/quote]
someone summon vis to defend uberchains honour
260
#260
-10 Frags +
-Greenghost-Okay let me get this straight, we as an organisation shouldn't ban good players because they succeeded as a good player. Furthermore they can do/say whatever they want just because they are good players.

I think you are missing the point that these players are indeed the face of a league by playing at the highest level and should therefore act accordingly to the role they play for the league. People will always watch their actions more no matter what happens.

They're only the face of etf2l if the etf2l staff chooses them to be. There is no reason to think ETF2L is in any way responsible for what its players say outside of it.

[quote=-Greenghost-]Okay let me get this straight, we as an organisation shouldn't ban good players because they succeeded as a good player. Furthermore they can do/say whatever they want just because they are good players.

I think you are missing the point that these players are indeed the face of a league by playing at the highest level and should therefore act accordingly to the role they play for the league. People will always watch their actions more no matter what happens.[/quote]
They're only the face of etf2l if the etf2l staff chooses them to be. There is no reason to think ETF2L is in any way responsible for what its players say outside of it.
261
#261
-3 Frags +
wtzGrapeJuiceIIIhttps://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459957763741843459/477250072053022721/mgemebro.PNG
mge me bro
someone summon vis to defend uberchains honour

paging bullet

[quote=wtz][quote=GrapeJuiceIII][img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459957763741843459/477250072053022721/mgemebro.PNG[/img]
mge me bro[/quote]
someone summon vis to defend uberchains honour[/quote]

paging bullet
262
#262
-8 Frags +

He is sort of right. There were no rules in etf2l about your activities outside of the platform. If etf2l wanted to be professional it would make some new rules to prevent these situations from happening again but it can't actually punish them this time.
Also someone please explain to me how getting half their deserved award back for something unrelated to their performance(and also legal with etf2l's rules at the time) isn't stealing.

He is sort of right. There were no rules in etf2l about your activities outside of the platform. If etf2l wanted to be professional it would make some new rules to prevent these situations from happening again but it can't actually punish them this time.
Also someone please explain to me how getting half their deserved award back for something unrelated to their performance(and also legal with etf2l's rules at the time) isn't stealing.
263
#263
9 Frags +
jediflamasterComp TF2 is dying fast enough as it is, no need to make it faster by banning two prem players and punishing 5 people hardly related to the incident monetarily.

I don't think people inside the scene realise the reputation Competitive TF2 has, thanks to attitudes like Pred's and the (seemingly) overwhelming acceptance of it by the rest of the scene.

When (to outsiders) your scene is defined by racism and toxicity, the only people you're gonna be able to convince to join it are people who share those attitudes, people who tolerate them, or people who somehow avoided learning of the reputation.

If the scene starts making permanent changes like these, toward trying to stamp out those attitudes, it will become much easier to convince new players to get involved.

[quote=jediflamaster]Comp TF2 is dying fast enough as it is, no need to make it faster by banning two prem players and punishing 5 people hardly related to the incident monetarily.[/quote]
I don't think people inside the scene realise the reputation Competitive TF2 has, thanks to attitudes like Pred's and the (seemingly) overwhelming acceptance of it by the rest of the scene.

When (to outsiders) your scene is defined by racism and toxicity, the only people you're gonna be able to convince to join it are people who share those attitudes, people who tolerate them, or people who somehow avoided learning of the reputation.

If the scene starts making permanent changes like these, toward trying to stamp out those attitudes, it will become much easier to convince new players to get involved.
264
#264
5 Frags +
YrrWhen (to outsiders) your scene is defined by racism and toxicity, the only people you're gonna be able to convince to join it are people who share those attitudes, people who tolerate them, or people who somehow avoided learning of the reputation.

If the scene starts making permanent changes like these, toward trying to stamp out those attitudes, it will become much easier to convince new players to get involved.

Absolutely. Being stuck in a state of stagnation and excusing awful behavior out of fear of killing the game is self defeating. New people joining and growth is the only way to improve the scene, and people are far less likely to join when high level players commonly throw around racist, sexist, transphobic, and homophobic language.

But regardless of that, there's a basic human decency argument against allowing this kind of behavior to go on unchecked.

[quote=Yrr]When (to outsiders) your scene is defined by racism and toxicity, the only people you're gonna be able to convince to join it are people who share those attitudes, people who tolerate them, or people who somehow avoided learning of the reputation.

If the scene starts making permanent changes like these, toward trying to stamp out those attitudes, it will become much easier to convince new players to get involved.[/quote]

Absolutely. Being stuck in a state of stagnation and excusing awful behavior out of fear of killing the game is self defeating. New people joining and growth is the only way to improve the scene, and people are far less likely to join when high level players commonly throw around racist, sexist, transphobic, and homophobic language.

But regardless of that, there's a basic human decency argument against allowing this kind of behavior to go on unchecked.
265
#265
-20 Frags +

If people talking shit is going to stop someone from competing, I don't think they really care about actually competing. In my experience someone talking shit about you only makes you want to beat them at the video game harder.

It also happens that the tf2 comp players have the reputation of being gods at the game.

If people talking shit is going to stop someone from competing, I don't think they really care about actually competing. In my experience someone talking shit about you only makes you want to beat them at the video game harder.

It also happens that the tf2 comp players have the reputation of being gods at the game.
266
#266
8 Frags +
jediflamasterIf people talking shit is going to stop someone from competing, I don't think they really care about actually competing.

That's the same as saying that people who have left the scene due to issues like this didn't care about the scene, which I think is completely wrong in all cases.

[quote=jediflamaster]If people talking shit is going to stop someone from competing, I don't think they really care about actually competing.[/quote]
That's the same as saying that people who have left the scene due to issues like this didn't care about the scene, which I think is completely wrong in all cases.
267
#267
10 Frags +
jediflamaster
No, but when you're bad you stay in open like a loser. Isn't that shame punishment enough?

holy christ I'm losing brain cells reading the messages from this assclown

[quote=jediflamaster]

No, but when you're bad you stay in open like a loser. Isn't that shame punishment enough?[/quote]

holy christ I'm losing brain cells reading the messages from this assclown
268
#268
-17 Frags +
Razieljediflamaster
No, but when you're bad you stay in open like a loser. Isn't that shame punishment enough?

holy christ I'm losing brain cells reading the messages from this assclown

Don't worry, chap, you can't go negative.

[quote=Raziel][quote=jediflamaster]

No, but when you're bad you stay in open like a loser. Isn't that shame punishment enough?[/quote]

holy christ I'm losing brain cells reading the messages from this assclown[/quote]
Don't worry, chap, you can't go negative.
269
#269
-16 Frags +
ballzyjediflamasterIf people talking shit is going to stop someone from competing, I don't think they really care about actually competing.That's the same as saying that people who have left the scene due to issues like this didn't care about the scene, which I think is completely wrong in all cases.

They clearly didn't care about beating the shit out of whoever shittalked them as much as they cared about being shittalked, and that in itself is weak and not competitive.

You guys how no idea how grateful I am that there was no community uproar when I was called a sperg, a little kurwa and a shitty pyro main. I'd never have gotten into comp if it weren't for people giving it to me straight about the worth of my feelings and my skill. And, still, I'm pretty sure most of you would still have no trouble with that now. Why do you choose to harm this poor girl and 2 prem teams in this case?

zotohYrrWhen (to outsiders) your scene is defined by racism and toxicity, the only people you're gonna be able to convince to join it are people who share those attitudes, people who tolerate them, or people who somehow avoided learning of the reputation.

If the scene starts making permanent changes like these, toward trying to stamp out those attitudes, it will become much easier to convince new players to get involved.

Absolutely. Being stuck in a state of stagnation and excusing awful behavior out of fear of killing the game is self defeating. New people joining and growth is the only way to improve the scene, and people are far less likely to join when high level players commonly throw around racist, sexist, transphobic, and homophobic language.

But regardless of that, there's a basic human decency argument against allowing this kind of behavior to go on unchecked.

Being a decent person is not a prerequisite for being good at tf2.

[quote=ballzy][quote=jediflamaster]If people talking shit is going to stop someone from competing, I don't think they really care about actually competing.[/quote]
That's the same as saying that people who have left the scene due to issues like this didn't care about the scene, which I think is completely wrong in all cases.[/quote]
They clearly didn't care about beating the shit out of whoever shittalked them as much as they cared about being shittalked, and that in itself is weak and not competitive.

You guys how no idea how grateful I am that there was no community uproar when I was called a sperg, a little kurwa and a shitty pyro main. I'd never have gotten into comp if it weren't for people giving it to me straight about the worth of my feelings and my skill. And, still, I'm pretty sure most of you would still have no trouble with that now. Why do you choose to harm this poor girl and 2 prem teams in this case? [quote=zotoh][quote=Yrr]When (to outsiders) your scene is defined by racism and toxicity, the only people you're gonna be able to convince to join it are people who share those attitudes, people who tolerate them, or people who somehow avoided learning of the reputation.

If the scene starts making permanent changes like these, toward trying to stamp out those attitudes, it will become much easier to convince new players to get involved.[/quote]

Absolutely. Being stuck in a state of stagnation and excusing awful behavior out of fear of killing the game is self defeating. New people joining and growth is the only way to improve the scene, and people are far less likely to join when high level players commonly throw around racist, sexist, transphobic, and homophobic language.

But regardless of that, there's a basic human decency argument against allowing this kind of behavior to go on unchecked.[/quote]
Being a decent person is not a prerequisite for being good at tf2.
270
#270
8 Frags +
jediflamasterThey clearly didn't care about beating the shit out of whoever shittalked them as much as they cared about being shittalked, and that in itself is weak and not competitive.

I think the issue here is unsportsmanlike behaviour, not overly competitive behaviour.

[quote=jediflamaster]They clearly didn't care about beating the shit out of whoever shittalked them as much as they cared about being shittalked, and that in itself is weak and not competitive.[/quote]
I think the issue here is unsportsmanlike behaviour, not overly competitive behaviour.
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