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Ban Pred and Degu v2
posted in Off Topic
271
#271
-39 Frags +
ballzyjediflamasterThey clearly didn't care about beating the shit out of whoever shittalked them as much as they cared about being shittalked, and that in itself is weak and not competitive.I think the issue here is unsportsmanlike behaviour, not overly competitive behaviour.

Sportsmanship is nice but prioritising it above the competition itself shows lack of commitment to the very idea of competing.

[quote=ballzy][quote=jediflamaster]They clearly didn't care about beating the shit out of whoever shittalked them as much as they cared about being shittalked, and that in itself is weak and not competitive.[/quote]
I think the issue here is unsportsmanlike behaviour, not overly competitive behaviour.[/quote] Sportsmanship is nice but prioritising it above the competition itself shows lack of commitment to the very idea of competing.
272
#272
-21 Frags +

Sorry for the double, browser lagged.

Sorry for the double, browser lagged.
273
#273
26 Frags +
jediflamasterSportsmanship is nice but prioritising it above the competition itself shows lack of commitment to the very idea of competing.

By the same logic you should be as toxic as possible to the enemy team during officials to try to tilt them, because that would be the most competitive thing to do. This is bannable on ETF2L because its unsportsmanlike behaviour.

[quote=jediflamaster]Sportsmanship is nice but prioritising it above the competition itself shows lack of commitment to the very idea of competing.[/quote]
By the same logic you should be as toxic as possible to the enemy team during officials to try to tilt them, because that would be the most competitive thing to do. This is bannable on ETF2L because its unsportsmanlike behaviour.
274
#274
-27 Frags +
ballzyjediflamasterSportsmanship is nice but prioritising it above the competition itself shows lack of commitment to the very idea of competing.By the same logic you should be as toxic as possible to the enemy team during officials to try to tilt them, because that would be the most competitive thing to do. This is bannable on ETF2L because its unsportsmanlike behaviour.

Players who do that are called snakes, it's a legit tactic, and it's still only a crutch. And you're right, I do think that being a snake shouldn't be bannable, anyone can mute chat if that's their weakness.
Besides, compulsory sportsmanship isn't real. Forcing people to pretend to respect you only makes you know less.

[quote=ballzy][quote=jediflamaster]Sportsmanship is nice but prioritising it above the competition itself shows lack of commitment to the very idea of competing.[/quote]
By the same logic you should be as toxic as possible to the enemy team during officials to try to tilt them, because that would be the most competitive thing to do. This is bannable on ETF2L because its unsportsmanlike behaviour.[/quote]
Players who do that are called snakes, it's a legit tactic, and it's still only a crutch. And you're right, I do think that being a snake shouldn't be bannable, anyone can mute chat if that's their weakness.
Besides, compulsory sportsmanship isn't real. Forcing people to pretend to respect you only makes you know less.
275
#275
22 Frags +
jediflamasterPlayers who do that are called snakes, it's a legit tactic, and it's still only a crutch. And you're right, I do think that being a snake shouldn't be bannable, anyone can mute chat if that's their weakness.
Besides, compulsory sportsmanship isn't real. Forcing people to pretend to respect you only makes you know less.

I think its a bit shortsighted to say that you would like to play in a league full of players who are toxic to one another and make life as hard as possible for the other team outside of the game.

You should keep in mind that this game is, far and large, grassroots and done voluntarily as a hobby. People do not want toxicity in excess, it just isn't fun for anyone.

Besides, this is completely missing the point of the reasons that these players were banned in the first place. Something where there was no competition involved.

[quote=jediflamaster]Players who do that are called snakes, it's a legit tactic, and it's still only a crutch. And you're right, I do think that being a snake shouldn't be bannable, anyone can mute chat if that's their weakness.
Besides, compulsory sportsmanship isn't real. Forcing people to pretend to respect you only makes you know less.[/quote]
I think its a bit shortsighted to say that you would like to play in a league full of players who are toxic to one another and make life as hard as possible for the other team outside of the game.

You should keep in mind that this game is, far and large, grassroots and done voluntarily as a hobby. People do not want toxicity in excess, it just isn't fun for anyone.

Besides, this is completely missing the point of the reasons that these players were banned in the first place. Something where there was no competition involved.
276
#276
-31 Frags +
ballzyI think its a bit shortsighted to say that you would like to play in a league full of players who are toxic to one another and make life as hard as possible for the other team outside of the game.

I'll take more shittalkers over more insincere liars any day. There are plenty ways to be assholes to the other team already too, but people don't do it because it's not worth the time.

ballzyYou should keep in mind that this game is, far and large, grassroots and done voluntarily as a hobby. People do not want toxicity in excess, it just isn't fun for anyone.

Competition isn't fun or about fun.

ballzyBesides, this is completely missing the point of the reasons that these players were banned in the first place. Something where there was no competition involved.

All the more reason not to involve ETF2L in this clearly personal issue. This is something twitter should deal with.

[quote=ballzy]
I think its a bit shortsighted to say that you would like to play in a league full of players who are toxic to one another and make life as hard as possible for the other team outside of the game.
[/quote]
I'll take more shittalkers over more insincere liars any day. There are plenty ways to be assholes to the other team already too, but people don't do it because it's not worth the time.
[quote=ballzy]
You should keep in mind that this game is, far and large, grassroots and done voluntarily as a hobby. People do not want toxicity in excess, it just isn't fun for anyone.
[/quote]
Competition isn't fun or about fun.
[quote=ballzy]
Besides, this is completely missing the point of the reasons that these players were banned in the first place. Something where there was no competition involved.[/quote]
All the more reason not to involve ETF2L in this clearly personal issue. This is something twitter should deal with.
277
#277
45 Frags +

Hey guys, I think it's obvious by now that starwarsfan2002 is not willing to budge on his ideas, time would be better spent on uuuh ignoring him.

Hey guys, I think it's obvious by now that starwarsfan2002 is not willing to budge on his ideas, time would be better spent on uuuh ignoring him.
278
#278
22 Frags +
jediflamasterI'll take more shittalkers over more insincere liars any day. There are plenty ways to be assholes to the other team already too, but people don't do it because it's not worth the time.

There's a clear difference between being insincere and not shittalking.

jediflamasterCompetition isn't fun or about fun.

This is so wrong on so many levels, if you don't find competitive TF2 enjoyable I suggest you stop playing it.

jediflamasterAll the more reason not to involve ETF2L in this clearly personal issue. This is something twitter should deal with.

This was my stance when the thread first appeared, that it was a personal issue that didn't need policed. But I changed my opinion for the following reasons.

This was a public outlash toward uberchain.
This is an issue ingrained into higher levels of the scene.
ETF2L are represented by their players at the higher divisions, like it or not. As an independent organisiation, they reserve the right to disassociate themselves from whoever they want. I think being publically racist and abusive is more than reason enough.

[quote=jediflamaster]
I'll take more shittalkers over more insincere liars any day. There are plenty ways to be assholes to the other team already too, but people don't do it because it's not worth the time.
[/quote]
There's a clear difference between being insincere and not shittalking.
[quote=jediflamaster]
Competition isn't fun or about fun.
[/quote]
This is so wrong on so many levels, if you don't find competitive TF2 enjoyable I suggest you stop playing it.
[quote=jediflamaster]
All the more reason not to involve ETF2L in this clearly personal issue. This is something twitter should deal with.[/quote]
This was my stance when the thread first appeared, that it was a personal issue that didn't need policed. But I changed my opinion for the following reasons.

This was a public outlash toward uberchain.
This is an issue ingrained into higher levels of the scene.
ETF2L are represented by their players at the higher divisions, like it or not. As an independent organisiation, they reserve the right to disassociate themselves from whoever they want. I think being publically racist and abusive is more than reason enough.
279
#279
21 Frags +
jediflamasterIn my experience someone talking shit about you only makes you want to beat them at the video game harder.

That's your experience. This may be surprising to you but everyone is different and reacts differently to different things. For a lot of people it just saps the fun out of it.

If you want a scene that only caters to people who like hurling abuse at each other, that's gonna severely limit who can and can't participate.

[quote=jediflamaster]In my experience someone talking shit about you only makes you want to beat them at the video game harder.[/quote]
That's your experience. This may be surprising to you but everyone is different and reacts differently to different things. For a lot of people it just saps the fun out of it.

If you want a scene that only caters to people who like hurling abuse at each other, that's gonna severely limit who can and can't participate.
280
#280
11 Frags +
jediflamasterballzyjediflamasterSportsmanship is nice but prioritising it above the competition itself shows lack of commitment to the very idea of competing.By the same logic you should be as toxic as possible to the enemy team during officials to try to tilt them, because that would be the most competitive thing to do. This is bannable on ETF2L because its unsportsmanlike behaviour.Players who do that are called snakes, it's a legit tactic, and it's still only a crutch. And you're right, I do think that being a snake shouldn't be bannable, anyone can mute chat if that's their weakness.
Besides, compulsory sportsmanship isn't real. Forcing people to pretend to respect you only makes you know less.

Just a little reminder that you have to communicate with your opponents to play them, you gotta get a date for your match, exchange serverinfo etc.
So no, you cant cut all communication to your opponents if you want to play etf2l :)

[quote=jediflamaster][quote=ballzy][quote=jediflamaster]Sportsmanship is nice but prioritising it above the competition itself shows lack of commitment to the very idea of competing.[/quote]
By the same logic you should be as toxic as possible to the enemy team during officials to try to tilt them, because that would be the most competitive thing to do. This is bannable on ETF2L because its unsportsmanlike behaviour.[/quote]
Players who do that are called snakes, it's a legit tactic, and it's still only a crutch. And you're right, I do think that being a snake shouldn't be bannable, [b]anyone can mute chat if that's their weakness.[/b]
Besides, compulsory sportsmanship isn't real. Forcing people to pretend to respect you only makes you know less.[/quote]
Just a little reminder that you have to communicate with your opponents to play them, you gotta get a date for your match, exchange serverinfo etc.
So no, you cant cut all communication to your opponents if you want to play etf2l :)
281
#281
27 Frags +

https://clips.twitch.tv/PlumpWimpyCrabsLitFam

https://clips.twitch.tv/PlumpWimpyCrabsLitFam
282
#282
7 Frags +

v3 coming soon

v3 coming soon
283
#283
6 Frags +

Who's that saying the N word? I demand to know.

Who's that saying the N word? I demand to know.
284
#284
3 Frags +
funhaver1998Who's that saying the N word? I demand to know.

Yllen said it was one of his mates....

[quote=funhaver1998]Who's that saying the N word? I demand to know.[/quote]

Yllen said it was one of his mates....
285
#285
3 Frags +

Tell 'em to add up. I got a Rocket with his name on it.

Tell 'em to add up. I got a Rocket with his name on it.
286
#286
23 Frags +

mate who used to play tf2 knicked me phone when we were on a night out tryin to get me banned, i had showed him this thread earlier in the day.

sorry for the offence this has caused. I don't condone anything thats said whatsoever

mate who used to play tf2 knicked me phone when we were on a night out tryin to get me banned, i had showed him this thread earlier in the day.

sorry for the offence this has caused. I don't condone anything thats said whatsoever
287
#287
12 Frags +
jediflamasterComp TF2 is dying fast enough as it is, no need to make it faster by banning two prem players and punishing 5 people hardly related to the incident monetarily.

All right let's have a look at this bullshit. Those of you who've been paying attention will have seen Tagg's posts about how and why he left comp TF2. This would have been a fucking disgrace even if Tagg were a no-name open player, but while we're on the subject of what's good for the health of comp TF2, let's crunch some numbers. Tagg has 77,000 youtube subscribers, and 45,000 twitch followers. Tagg's youtube and twitch channels now rarely broadcast TF2. Can someone please explain how this is good for comp TF2? Do you think Tagg was the only person to leave the community for the reason he did? This idea that it's super important to keep the racists while we ignore the people they push out of the community is fucking stupid.

Edited to fix broken quotes, and explain the edit.

[quote=jediflamaster]
Comp TF2 is dying fast enough as it is, no need to make it faster by banning two prem players and punishing 5 people hardly related to the incident monetarily.[/quote]

All right let's have a look at this bullshit. Those of you who've been paying attention will have seen Tagg's posts about how and why he left comp TF2. This would have been a fucking disgrace even if Tagg were a no-name open player, but while we're on the subject of what's good for the health of comp TF2, let's crunch some numbers. Tagg has 77,000 youtube subscribers, and 45,000 twitch followers. Tagg's youtube and twitch channels now rarely broadcast TF2. Can someone please explain how this is good for comp TF2? Do you think Tagg was the only person to leave the community for the reason he did? This idea that it's super important to keep the racists while we ignore the people they push out of the community is fucking stupid.

Edited to fix broken quotes, and explain the edit.
288
#288
2 Frags +
goreston Tagg has 77,000 youtube subscribers, and 45,000 twitch followers. Tagg's youtube and twitch channels now rarely broadcast TF2. Can someone please explain how this is good for comp TF2? Do you think Tagg was the only person to leave the community for the reason he did? This idea that it's super important to keep the racists while we ignore the people they push out of the community is fucking stupid.

Edited to fix broken quotes, and explain the edit.

Not going to defend the Jedi or whatever, but those are numbers he gained after he started doing things that aren't TF2 aren't they? it's hard to make an argument for Tagg's numbers since he hasn't played TF2 in years now. You could even argue that those numbers could mean quitting TF2 was a good thing for him since it allowed him to do other things, instead of your presumed(?) point of trying to say that Tagg had such a large audience before he quit. For reference b4nny is at 61k subscribers on Youtube and 86k followers on Twitch.

[quote=goreston] Tagg has 77,000 youtube subscribers, and 45,000 twitch followers. Tagg's youtube and twitch channels now rarely broadcast TF2. Can someone please explain how this is good for comp TF2? Do you think Tagg was the only person to leave the community for the reason he did? This idea that it's super important to keep the racists while we ignore the people they push out of the community is fucking stupid.

Edited to fix broken quotes, and explain the edit.[/quote]
Not going to defend the Jedi or whatever, but those are numbers he gained after he started doing things that aren't TF2 aren't they? it's hard to make an argument for Tagg's numbers since he hasn't played TF2 in years now. You could even argue that those numbers could mean quitting TF2 was a good thing for him since it allowed him to do other things, instead of your presumed(?) point of trying to say that Tagg had such a large audience before he quit. For reference b4nny is at 61k subscribers on Youtube and 86k followers on Twitch.
289
#289
10 Frags +
morwanneggoreston Tagg has 77,000 youtube subscribers, and 45,000 twitch followers. Tagg's youtube and twitch channels now rarely broadcast TF2. Can someone please explain how this is good for comp TF2? Do you think Tagg was the only person to leave the community for the reason he did? This idea that it's super important to keep the racists while we ignore the people they push out of the community is fucking stupid.

Edited to fix broken quotes, and explain the edit.
Not going to defend the Jedi or whatever, but those are numbers he gained after he started doing things that aren't TF2 aren't they? it's hard to make an argument for Tagg's numbers since he hasn't played TF2 in years now. You could even argue that those numbers could mean quitting TF2 was a good thing for him since it allowed him to do other things, instead of your presumed(?) point of trying to say that Tagg had such a large audience before he quit. For reference b4nny is at 61k subscribers on Youtube and 86k followers on Twitch.

That's a fair point, I don't know what Tagg's numbers were before he quit TF2, and you're doubtless correct that he gained followers by playing other games. I still think it's valid to argue that we could benefit from Tagg's audience if he hadn't been turned off from TF2 though.

[quote=morwanneg][quote=goreston] Tagg has 77,000 youtube subscribers, and 45,000 twitch followers. Tagg's youtube and twitch channels now rarely broadcast TF2. Can someone please explain how this is good for comp TF2? Do you think Tagg was the only person to leave the community for the reason he did? This idea that it's super important to keep the racists while we ignore the people they push out of the community is fucking stupid.

Edited to fix broken quotes, and explain the edit.[/quote]
Not going to defend the Jedi or whatever, but those are numbers he gained after he started doing things that aren't TF2 aren't they? it's hard to make an argument for Tagg's numbers since he hasn't played TF2 in years now. You could even argue that those numbers could mean quitting TF2 was a good thing for him since it allowed him to do other things, instead of your presumed(?) point of trying to say that Tagg had such a large audience before he quit. For reference b4nny is at 61k subscribers on Youtube and 86k followers on Twitch.[/quote]

That's a fair point, I don't know what Tagg's numbers were before he quit TF2, and you're doubtless correct that he gained followers by playing other games. I still think it's valid to argue that we could benefit from Tagg's audience if he hadn't been turned off from TF2 though.
290
#290
8 Frags +

Tagg had those numbers whilst he was playing TF2 but only started regularly streaming at the tail end of his career.

Tagg had those numbers whilst he was playing TF2 but only started regularly streaming at the tail end of his career.
291
#291
34 Frags +
jediflamasterComp TF2 is dying fast enough as it is, no need to make it faster by banning two prem players and punishing 5 people hardly related to the incident monetarily.

game deserves to die if u have to consider not banning two rats in order to keep it alive rifk

[quote=jediflamaster]Comp TF2 is dying fast enough as it is, no need to make it faster by banning two prem players and punishing 5 people hardly related to the incident monetarily.
[/quote]

game deserves to die if u have to consider not banning two rats in order to keep it alive rifk
292
#292
29 Frags +
jediflamasterThis disgrace makes me embarassed to play in ETF2L. This isn't just about prem, banning people for calling someone a gook puts the entire EU comp community in a bad light. The message this sends is that the biggest tf2 league in europe cares more about what people say than how well they play.

absolutely 0 surprises that you're the most recent in the line of people outing themselves as incels or neckbeards in these threads

[quote=jediflamaster]This disgrace makes me embarassed to play in ETF2L. This isn't just about prem, banning people for calling someone a gook puts the entire EU comp community in a bad light. The message this sends is that the biggest tf2 league in europe cares more about what people say than how well they play.[/quote]

absolutely 0 surprises that you're the most recent in the line of people outing themselves as incels or neckbeards in these threads
293
#293
19 Frags +

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

In actual e-sports the main motivation behind self-policing is avoiding bad PR for the sponsors, so the human trash that had a heated gaming moment is coaxed to publish a boilerplate apology so that they may keep making money for the org. In this case you'll unfortunately have to rely on regular old human decency instead, which is not a powerful enough incentive for some it seems.

If you allow asswipes like this to be part of your community and do what they please in the name of propping up the numbers (or arguing some sort of ridiculous free speech defense, in which case see link above), your community deserves to die. Whether competitive TF2 blissfully fades into oblivion or has to be put down after contacting rabies is in your hands.

Show Content
I've stopped following competitive TF2 after five years of obsessively doing so (which is why I'm late to this particular party), and I've read and heard some shit in that time. That said, it's never too late to improve. Online communities that champion anarchy and freedom from consequences never end up well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

In actual e-sports the main motivation behind self-policing is avoiding bad PR for the sponsors, so the human trash that had a heated gaming moment is coaxed to publish a boilerplate apology so that they may keep making money for the org. In this case you'll unfortunately have to rely on regular old human decency instead, which is not a powerful enough incentive for some it seems.

If you allow asswipes like this to be part of your community and do what they please in the name of propping up the numbers (or arguing some sort of ridiculous free speech defense, in which case see link above), your community deserves to die. Whether competitive TF2 blissfully fades into oblivion or has to be put down after contacting rabies is in your hands.

[spoiler]I've stopped following competitive TF2 after five years of obsessively doing so (which is why I'm late to this particular party), and I've read and heard some shit in that time. That said, it's never too late to improve. Online communities that champion anarchy and freedom from consequences never end up well.[/spoiler]
294
#294
18 Frags +

https://imgur.com/a/MD8t26f

stuff like this is making me want to quit tf2

https://imgur.com/a/MD8t26f

stuff like this is making me want to quit tf2
295
#295
-1 Frags +

Yeah thats why I made the 'Telephone Fan' thread. Been tryna change his ways. Really trying.

For example: When he saw the original thread of this he say to me 'Brother I think the game is dead', I say 'Why nao?' He say 'Too many Tr*nnys' and I don't get it. Why so toxic?

I guess people like Muuki, Pred and Telephone Fan just come from areas where they don't experience much and so when they see something different they just hate on it. Sad.

Yeah thats why I made the 'Telephone Fan' thread. Been tryna change his ways. Really trying.

For example: When he saw the original thread of this he say to me 'Brother I think the game is dead', I say 'Why nao?' He say 'Too many Tr*nnys' and I don't get it. Why so toxic?

I guess people like Muuki, Pred and Telephone Fan just come from areas where they don't experience much and so when they see something different they just hate on it. Sad.
296
#296
18 Frags +
I guess people like Muuki, Pred and Telephone Fan just come from areas where they don't experience much and so when they see something different they just hate on it. Sad.

a basement?

[quote]I guess people like Muuki, Pred and Telephone Fan just come from areas where they don't experience much and so when they see something different they just hate on it. Sad.
[/quote]
a basement?
297
#297
-45 Frags +
zxpI guess people like Muuki, Pred and Telephone Fan just come from areas where they don't experience much and so when they see something different they just hate on it. Sad.a basement?

Really funny coming from a guy with a rick and morty avatar.

[quote=zxp][quote]I guess people like Muuki, Pred and Telephone Fan just come from areas where they don't experience much and so when they see something different they just hate on it. Sad.
[/quote]
a basement?[/quote]

Really funny coming from a guy with a rick and morty avatar.
298
#298
6 Frags +

No, from Varazdin, Varazdinska,

No, from Varazdin, Varazdinska,
299
#299
Essentials.tf
25 Frags +

Official statement from our Leadership Team at EssentialsTF: https://essentials.tf/news/20

Official statement from our Leadership Team at EssentialsTF: https://essentials.tf/news/20
300
#300
6 Frags +

Steps to the right direction. Happy that this matter has been taken seriously.

Steps to the right direction. Happy that this matter has been taken seriously.
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