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Ban Pred and Degu v2
posted in Off Topic
91
#91
-28 Frags +
Muukiyeah i bet all the 7 players and circlejerkers just "didnt notice" when they tell other people to kill themselves or call them autistic or display jewsmashers and nignogs getting sent to the shadow realm on their steam profile, just an oversight.

if you're gonna apply punishments, apply them equally to everyone :)

Please. Show us evidence and we'll call it out. It isn't a complicated construct. You can't call bias when you're making claims without giving us evidence for us to do anything with in the first place. Silly.

[quote=Muuki]yeah i bet all the 7 players and circlejerkers just "didnt notice" when they tell other people to kill themselves or call them autistic or display jewsmashers and nignogs getting sent to the shadow realm on their steam profile, just an oversight.

if you're gonna apply punishments, apply them equally to everyone :)[/quote]

Please. Show us evidence and we'll call it out. It isn't a complicated construct. You can't call bias when you're making claims without giving us evidence for us to do anything with in the first place. Silly.
92
#92
40 Frags +
DoomsdayexeMuukiyeah i bet all the 7 players and circlejerkers just "didnt notice" when they tell other people to kill themselves or call them autistic or display jewsmashers and nignogs getting sent to the shadow realm on their steam profile, just an oversight.

if you're gonna apply punishments, apply them equally to everyone :)

Please. Show us evidence and we'll call it out. It isn't a complicated construct. You can't call bias when you're making claims without giving us evidence for us to do anything with in the first place. Silly.

ok muuki has been a retard lately but he isn't completely wrong here

[quote=Doomsdayexe][quote=Muuki]yeah i bet all the 7 players and circlejerkers just "didnt notice" when they tell other people to kill themselves or call them autistic or display jewsmashers and nignogs getting sent to the shadow realm on their steam profile, just an oversight.

if you're gonna apply punishments, apply them equally to everyone :)[/quote]

Please. Show us evidence and we'll call it out. It isn't a complicated construct. You can't call bias when you're making claims without giving us evidence for us to do anything with in the first place. Silly.[/quote]
ok muuki has been a retard lately but he isn't completely wrong here
93
#93
69 Frags +
ReeroDoomsdayexeMuukiyeah i bet all the 7 players and circlejerkers just "didnt notice" when they tell other people to kill themselves or call them autistic or display jewsmashers and nignogs getting sent to the shadow realm on their steam profile, just an oversight.

if you're gonna apply punishments, apply them equally to everyone :)

Please. Show us evidence and we'll call it out. It isn't a complicated construct. You can't call bias when you're making claims without giving us evidence for us to do anything with in the first place. Silly.
ok muuki has been a retard lately but he isn't completely wrong here

wait, calling me a retard is okay? i thought we were against slurs here

[quote=Reero][quote=Doomsdayexe][quote=Muuki]yeah i bet all the 7 players and circlejerkers just "didnt notice" when they tell other people to kill themselves or call them autistic or display jewsmashers and nignogs getting sent to the shadow realm on their steam profile, just an oversight.

if you're gonna apply punishments, apply them equally to everyone :)[/quote]

Please. Show us evidence and we'll call it out. It isn't a complicated construct. You can't call bias when you're making claims without giving us evidence for us to do anything with in the first place. Silly.[/quote]
ok muuki has been a retard lately but he isn't completely wrong here[/quote]
wait, calling me a retard is okay? i thought we were against slurs here
94
#94
7 Frags +
DoomsdayexeMuukiyeah i bet all the 7 players and circlejerkers just "didnt notice" when they tell other people to kill themselves or call them autistic or display jewsmashers and nignogs getting sent to the shadow realm on their steam profile, just an oversight.

if you're gonna apply punishments, apply them equally to everyone :)

Please. Show us evidence and we'll call it out. It isn't a complicated construct. You can't call bias when you're making claims without giving us evidence for us to do anything with in the first place. Silly.

Including your own...

[quote=Doomsdayexe][quote=Muuki]yeah i bet all the 7 players and circlejerkers just "didnt notice" when they tell other people to kill themselves or call them autistic or display jewsmashers and nignogs getting sent to the shadow realm on their steam profile, just an oversight.

if you're gonna apply punishments, apply them equally to everyone :)[/quote]

Please. [b]Show us evidence [/b]and we'll call it out. It isn't a complicated construct. You can't call bias when you're making claims without giving us evidence for us to do anything with in the first place. Silly.[/quote]

Including your own...
95
#95
8 Frags +
Doomsdayexe
Please. Show us evidence and we'll call it out. It isn't a complicated construct. You can't call bias when you're making claims without giving us evidence for us to do anything with in the first place. Silly.

you clearly never have played with some of these players and been in mumble with them. There's a huge difference between what happens in private vs the public sphere of prem casted games or twitter. Say whatever you want in private, but don't let internet culture influence what you say to slip up and give some people more ammo to complain about our "toxicity".

Also yea i don't get why retard is supposed to be "the hard R" it just gives me a mental image of a down syndrome person with an erection and i'm prolly not the only one.

[quote=Doomsdayexe]

Please. Show us evidence and we'll call it out. It isn't a complicated construct. You can't call bias when you're making claims without giving us evidence for us to do anything with in the first place. Silly.[/quote]
you clearly never have played with some of these players and been in mumble with them. There's a huge difference between what happens in private vs the public sphere of prem casted games or twitter. Say whatever you want in private, but don't let internet culture influence what you say to slip up and give some people more ammo to complain about our "toxicity".

Also yea i don't get why retard is supposed to be "the hard R" it just gives me a mental image of a down syndrome person with an erection and i'm prolly not the only one.
96
#96
45 Frags +

is everyone upvoting their own posts, every single post has +1 the moment its posted

is everyone upvoting their own posts, every single post has +1 the moment its posted
97
#97
84 Frags +

Probably a unpopular opinion but hey here goes nothing. (I'm not the best at putting what i think down in writing due to being severely dyslexic so forgiver the grammar.)

To me the "statements" from ETF2l and other sites seem top be forgetting what the TF2 comp scene is. Its a community league run almost entirely on volunteers and kept alive by people loving the game.

Harassment and what counts as harassment has, to me anyway lost, its meaning this day and age. The internet is a shitty place and I know of incidents in my years with TF2 that are much worse than being insulted on twitter.

I'll give you a brief example:

I'n 2011 Brevick killed hundreds of Norwegians kids I played in a team with two Norwegians who personally knew kids who had died and lost friends. During a PCW an entire team made fun and insulted the whole situation causing my friends on the team to be visibly upset. This was a bunch of edgy Swedish kids being cunts and do you know what happened after?

We made a post about it and the entire community black listed them from playing. No one scrimmed them and they left the game shortly after. As a whole the community is full of normal people who when they see something awful they make a stand against it.

If people are awful and the community finds out we don't just do nothing we don't play them. This is how its always been.

Why are we treating this situation like a politician or famous person with millions of followers made these comments.Lets not forgot what and who these guys are. Teenagers playing TF2 before they have to do something productive later on making edgy unfunny jokes at other peoples expense.

Ban the guys black list them from playing sure but why make it out like we are "taking a stance" on harassment? All we have done now is make every case of shit talk that for years and years would just be shrugged off now a possible fine and ban?

Uberchain if you are reading this the stuff that you talked about is awful and anyone who knows me personally knows that sexual harassment and assault is something I take very seriously. But I think the dumb comments made on twitter by some kids aren't the focus here or at-least what you intended with the post. I think this has all derailed and taken away from what you wanted to say.

I have left the game and i guess none of this really effects me anymore but seeing ETF2L try and act like something it has never been made me want to post this.

Peace

Probably a unpopular opinion but hey here goes nothing. (I'm not the best at putting what i think down in writing due to being severely dyslexic so forgiver the grammar.)

To me the "statements" from ETF2l and other sites seem top be forgetting what the TF2 comp scene is. Its a community league run almost entirely on volunteers and kept alive by people loving the game.

Harassment and what counts as harassment has, to me anyway lost, its meaning this day and age. The internet is a shitty place and I know of incidents in my years with TF2 that are [b]much[/b] worse than being insulted on twitter.

I'll give you a brief example:

I'n 2011 Brevick killed hundreds of Norwegians kids I played in a team with two Norwegians who personally knew kids who had died and lost friends. During a PCW an entire team made fun and insulted the whole situation causing my friends on the team to be visibly upset. This was a bunch of edgy Swedish kids being cunts and do you know what happened after?

We made a post about it and the entire community black listed them from playing. No one scrimmed them and they left the game shortly after. As a whole the community is full of normal people who when they see something awful they make a stand against it.

If people are awful and the community finds out we don't just do nothing we don't play them. This is how its always been.

Why are we treating this situation like a politician or famous person with millions of followers made these comments.Lets not forgot what and who these guys are. Teenagers playing TF2 before they have to do something productive later on making edgy unfunny jokes at other peoples expense.

Ban the guys black list them from playing sure but why make it out like we are "taking a stance" on harassment? All we have done now is make every case of shit talk that for years and years would just be shrugged off now a possible fine and ban?

[b]Uberchain if you are reading this the stuff that you talked about is awful and anyone who knows me personally knows that sexual harassment and assault is something I take very seriously. But I think the dumb comments made on twitter by some kids aren't the focus here or at-least what you intended with the post. I think this has all derailed and taken away from what you wanted to say.[/b]

I have left the game and i guess none of this really effects me anymore but seeing ETF2L try and act like something it has never been made me want to post this.

Peace
98
#98
-12 Frags +
Stinson_OutFurthermore, UnitedKingdom the bin– who Croatia Pred is a leader for and hence is a representative of the team – will only be awarded 50% of their prizemoney for last season

Ok, that's actually stealing.

[quote=Stinson_Out]
Furthermore, UnitedKingdom the bin– who Croatia Pred is a leader for and hence is a representative of the team – will only be awarded 50% of their prizemoney for last season[/quote]
Ok, that's actually stealing.
99
#99
24 Frags +
Gazquintoshyou're still free to name whenever someone's been harassed, they've reported it to the admins and it's gone unpunished, otherwise you might as well stop pretending to be the saint that sees the big picture where admins are only biased towards certain people
This happened numerous times on TFTV, Twitter and even their own website. I don't see why I should name these situations. My point is that people did not care previously. You imply that ETF2L punished these kind of people before, but consider that a minor warning for flaming isn't the same as a deduction in prize money plus a 2-month and a 12-month ban.

for one thing, as far as im aware etf2l's policy has always been that if something is not reported, they won't deal with it. the uberchain incident has clearly been reported, and it probably wasn't just the initial twitter posts that got them banned but also the ignorance, blame shifting and name changing on steam after the major backlash from their actions

2nd off, people behaving like ass have been punished in the past, especially in the forums. most of the time people are banned from posting in the forums, have their avatars removed, and in the past they've also banned a player (taimou) for finding other ways to be racist on etf2l (such as changing team names)

thirdly, prem players have always been treated differently from the rest of the league in return for being able to shape the league's ruleset, whitelist, map pool, awards and winning money

all three points combined resulted in a case of precedence, funnily enough my ban back then has also been one and i know it sucks, but it's the right thing to do to show the league's stance on certain things.

after all certain possible sponsors have voiced their take on these people being able to play in the league and a sponsorship will keep competition going longer than toxicity, which kind of kills it. if you look at the old thread there's several ex-top players and other people who have done a ton for the community coming back after a long hiatus to express their thoughts on this kind of behaviour, with the underlying reason that it was probably why they stopped playing.

[quote=Gaz][quote=quintosh]
you're still free to name whenever someone's been harassed, they've reported it to the admins and it's gone unpunished, otherwise you might as well stop pretending to be the saint that sees the big picture where admins are only biased towards certain people[/quote]

This happened numerous times on TFTV, Twitter and even their own website. I don't see why I should name these situations. My point is that people did not care previously. You imply that ETF2L punished these kind of people before, but consider that a minor warning for flaming isn't the same as a deduction in prize money plus a 2-month and a 12-month ban. [/quote]

for one thing, as far as im aware etf2l's policy has always been that if something is not reported, they won't deal with it. the uberchain incident has clearly been reported, and it probably wasn't just the initial twitter posts that got them banned but also the ignorance, blame shifting and name changing on steam after the major backlash from their actions

2nd off, people behaving like ass have been punished in the past, especially in the forums. most of the time people are banned from posting in the forums, have their avatars removed, and in the past they've also banned a player (taimou) for finding other ways to be racist on etf2l (such as changing team names)

thirdly, prem players have always been treated differently from the rest of the league in return for being able to shape the league's ruleset, whitelist, map pool, awards and winning money

all three points combined resulted in a case of precedence, funnily enough my ban back then has also been one and i know it sucks, but it's the right thing to do to show the league's stance on certain things.

after all certain possible sponsors have voiced their take on these people being able to play in the league and a sponsorship will keep competition going longer than toxicity, which kind of kills it. if you look at the old thread there's several ex-top players and other people who have done a ton for the community coming back after a long hiatus to express their thoughts on this kind of behaviour, with the underlying reason that it was probably why they stopped playing.
100
#100
17 Frags +
cryosis
So what do you think SHOULD have happened? Should we just have given Degu and Pred a slap on the wrists? What about the next time something like this happens? Wrist slapped again? When should we actually start caring about how the community interacts with each other and the outside world?

Maybe explaining that this behavior will not be tolerated anymore in the future, without suddenly swinging the banhammer at people and punishing those who were in the same team out of nowhere? Again, that is my point. This happened numerous times before and resulted in ignorance or a warning for flaming in ETF2L. So you are telling me that, out of nowhere, people are being handed a 2 month ban for posting a picture on a different website, but people who harass others in the competition just get away with only a meaningless minor warning? This way of dealing with harassment could have been adapted way earlier, but it wasn't, because obviously nobody cared enough, but suddenly it is this huge fucking deal, so huge that they take special action, because Uberchain was the one being harassed?

quintoshk

You are now also comparing a forum ban to a 50% deduction plus a 2-month and 12-month ban. Still, I highly doubt that ETF2L will do the same for the average player. Can I hope for the same kind of punishment for another player harassing me on a different website or will I be swept under the rug because I'm just one of a few thousands?

[quote=cryosis]

So what do you think SHOULD have happened? Should we just have given Degu and Pred a slap on the wrists? What about the next time something like this happens? Wrist slapped again? When should we actually start caring about how the community interacts with each other and the outside world?[/quote]

Maybe explaining that this behavior will not be tolerated anymore in the future, without suddenly swinging the banhammer at people and punishing those who were in the same team out of nowhere? Again, that is my point. This happened numerous times before and resulted in ignorance or a warning for flaming in ETF2L. So you are telling me that, out of nowhere, people are being handed a 2 month ban for posting a picture on a different website, but people who harass others in the competition just get away with only a meaningless minor warning? This way of dealing with harassment could have been adapted way earlier, but it wasn't, because obviously nobody cared enough, but suddenly it is this huge fucking deal, so huge that they take special action, because Uberchain was the one being harassed?

[quote=quintosh]k[/quote]
You are now also comparing a forum ban to a 50% deduction plus a 2-month and 12-month ban. Still, I highly doubt that ETF2L will do the same for the average player. Can I hope for the same kind of punishment for another player harassing me on a different website or will I be swept under the rug because I'm just one of a few thousands?
101
#101
39 Frags +

if its reported admins will look into it amirite and i think a lot of names, pictures, logs etc have been provided in both threads so lets hope etf2l for once will show consistency in their actions maybe even starting uhhm today?

if its reported admins will look into it amirite and i think a lot of names, pictures, logs etc have been provided in both threads so lets hope etf2l for once will show consistency in their actions maybe even starting uhhm today?
102
#102
18 Frags +
smziif its reported admins will look into it amirite and i think a lot of names, pictures, logs etc have been provided in both threads so lets hope etf2l for once will show consistencyin their actions maybe even starting uhhm today?

I can't wait for everyone to start trawling through all the logs of all the prem players to find out all the stupid shit they have said and then forward all the evidence to ETF2L to see if they can get them banned.

How many do you think will survive?

[quote=smzi]if its reported admins will look into it amirite and i think a lot of names, pictures, logs etc have been provided in both threads so lets hope etf2l for once will show consistencyin their actions maybe even starting uhhm today?[/quote]

I can't wait for everyone to start trawling through all the logs of all the prem players to find out all the stupid shit they have said and then forward all the evidence to ETF2L to see if they can get them banned.

How many do you think will survive?
103
#103
-9 Frags +

i feel like there should be a distinction between things said in call/game vs being said on twitter

When you're in call you have way less time to think about what you say, so you could impulsively say something really bad.
In game I guess is on the level as twitter as you have time to think about what you type, but you also have to consider tilt factor.
Now, I feel like players SHOULD be held accountable for what they say on twitter. They have a lot of time to read a detailed post and think of something to say, prior to hitting the tweet button.

I'm not saying calling someone a hard r or a dyke is ok, I'm just stating that getting logs is a lot less accurate than a tweet.

ok im gonna stop osting in this thread before my nerdstars tank

i feel like there should be a distinction between things said in call/game vs being said on twitter

When you're in call you have way less time to think about what you say, so you could impulsively say something really bad.
In game I guess is on the level as twitter as you have time to think about what you type, but you also have to consider tilt factor.
Now, I feel like players SHOULD be held accountable for what they say on twitter. They have a lot of time to read a detailed post and think of something to say, prior to hitting the tweet button.

I'm not saying calling someone a hard r or a dyke is ok, I'm just stating that getting logs is a lot less accurate than a tweet.

ok im gonna stop osting in this thread before my nerdstars tank
104
#104
6 Frags +
ICLi feel like there should be a distinction between things said in call/game vs being said on twitter

When you're in call you have way less time to think about what you say, so you could impulsively say something really bad.
In game I guess is on the level as twitter as you have time to think about what you type, but you also have to consider tilt factor.
Now, I feel like players SHOULD be held accountable for what they say on twitter. They have a lot of time to read a detailed post and think of something to say, prior to hitting the tweet button.

I'm not saying calling someone a hard r or a dyke is ok, I'm just stating that getting logs is a lot less accurate than a tweet.

It doesn't matter. You don't impulsively call somebody a gook or nig*** if you don't mean to use it as an insult.

[quote=ICL]i feel like there should be a distinction between things said in call/game vs being said on twitter

When you're in call you have way less time to think about what you say, so you could impulsively say something really bad.
In game I guess is on the level as twitter as you have time to think about what you type, but you also have to consider tilt factor.
Now, I feel like players SHOULD be held accountable for what they say on twitter. They have a lot of time to read a detailed post and think of something to say, prior to hitting the tweet button.

I'm not saying calling someone a hard r or a dyke is ok, I'm just stating that getting logs is a lot less accurate than a tweet.[/quote]

It doesn't matter. You don't impulsively call somebody a gook or nig*** if you don't mean to use it as an insult.
105
#105
5 Frags +

Lets just hope that etf2l will start from now on and stay consistent with this idea of banning people for their general behaviour, even outside of etf2l itself when provided enough proof.

Lets just hope that etf2l will start from now on and stay consistent with this idea of banning people for their general behaviour, even outside of etf2l itself when provided enough proof.
106
#106
8 Frags +

Muuki you probably had a hand in having your Prize Winnings cut with your recent posts so don't act like you're not partly to blame even if for a little bit.

Muuki you probably had a hand in having your Prize Winnings cut with your recent posts so don't act like you're not partly to blame even if for a little bit.
107
#107
32 Frags +
Muukiyeah i bet all the 7 players and circlejerkers just "didnt notice" when they tell other people to kill themselves or call them autistic or display jewsmashers and nignogs getting sent to the shadow realm on their steam profile, just an oversight.

if you're gonna apply punishments, apply them equally to everyone :)

But se7en didn't harass a sexual abuse victim for speaking about her abusers. That is what the current bans on Degu and Pred are about. You seem to think ETF2L banned them for something that happened during matches but the Official Statement clearly says this is unrelated to matches.

There has been no punishment for any racism/harassment during matches so far. I'm glad we can agree about this subject. They should be treated like any other team. And I hope the admins will look into it soon. I hope they will be held responsible for Credu's weapon names and any racist/offensive remarks that happened. I advise you to gather evidence if there is any more to gather and hand it over to admins. i know se7en also gathered evidence they have against other teams.

You are correct. Punishment should be equal. Had they harassed uberchain they also should've been banned like Degu and Pred were. But they didn't harass her. I wish you the best of luck making your case for their behavior against you/your friends/your teammates. Se7en aren't saints. We all know that. If they do something wrong they should be held accountable.

[quote=Muuki]yeah i bet all the 7 players and circlejerkers just "didnt notice" when they tell other people to kill themselves or call them autistic or display jewsmashers and nignogs getting sent to the shadow realm on their steam profile, just an oversight.

if you're gonna apply punishments, apply them equally to everyone :)[/quote]
But se7en didn't harass a sexual abuse victim for speaking about her abusers. That is what the current bans on Degu and Pred are about. You seem to think ETF2L banned them for something that happened during matches but the Official Statement clearly says this is unrelated to matches.

There has been no punishment for any racism/harassment during matches so far. I'm glad we can agree about this subject. They should be treated like any other team. And I hope the admins will look into it soon. I hope they will be held responsible for Credu's weapon names and any racist/offensive remarks that happened. I advise you to gather evidence if there is any more to gather and hand it over to admins. i know se7en also gathered evidence they have against other teams.

You are correct. Punishment should be equal. Had they harassed uberchain they also should've been banned like Degu and Pred were. But they didn't harass her. I wish you the best of luck making your case for their behavior against you/your friends/your teammates. Se7en aren't saints. We all know that. If they do something wrong they should be held accountable.
108
#108
-15 Frags +
FireLets just hope that etf2l will start from now on and stay consistent with this idea of banning people for their general behaviour, even outside of etf2l itself when provided enough proof.

Yes let's kill prem now too

[quote=Fire]Lets just hope that etf2l will start from now on and stay consistent with this idea of banning people for their general behaviour, even outside of etf2l itself when provided enough proof.[/quote]
Yes let's kill prem now too
109
#109
-5 Frags +
VisFireLets just hope that etf2l will start from now on and stay consistent with this idea of banning people for their general behaviour, even outside of etf2l itself when provided enough proof.Yes let's kill prem now too

Prem won't die if some of y'all stop acting like complete dickwads..

[quote=Vis][quote=Fire]Lets just hope that etf2l will start from now on and stay consistent with this idea of banning people for their general behaviour, even outside of etf2l itself when provided enough proof.[/quote]
Yes let's kill prem now too[/quote]

Prem won't die if some of y'all stop acting like complete dickwads..
110
#110
0 Frags +
GazICLautism
It doesn't matter. You don't impulsively call somebody a gook or nig*** if you don't mean to use it as an insult.

i feel like i was thinking towards less offensive insults on this. mb

[quote=Gaz][quote=ICL]autism[/quote]

It doesn't matter. You don't impulsively call somebody a gook or nig*** if you don't mean to use it as an insult.[/quote]
i feel like i was thinking towards less offensive insults on this. mb
111
#111
8 Frags +

lol

lol
112
#112
-3 Frags +
DoomsdayexeVisFireLets just hope that etf2l will start from now on and stay consistent with this idea of banning people for their general behaviour, even outside of etf2l itself when provided enough proof.Yes let's kill prem now too
Prem won't die...

Sure :D

[quote=Doomsdayexe][quote=Vis][quote=Fire]Lets just hope that etf2l will start from now on and stay consistent with this idea of banning people for their general behaviour, even outside of etf2l itself when provided enough proof.[/quote]
Yes let's kill prem now too[/quote]

Prem won't die...[/quote]
Sure :D
113
#113
9 Frags +

"we havent done this in the past" is not a valid excuse to say "we cant do this now"
Obviously this high profile case caused ETF2L to make a decision, and now we just have to see if they actually stick to it and enforce it any other time in future or if it really is just for show. When we see that then you can start judging their decision as biased or not

"we havent done this in the past" is not a valid excuse to say "we cant do this now"
Obviously this high profile case caused ETF2L to make a decision, and now we just have to see if they actually stick to it and enforce it any other time in future or if it really is just for show. When we see that then you can start judging their decision as biased or not
114
#114
-11 Frags +

this community is a toxic cesspool in general, whats another two worms crawlin' around in it u feel

edit: dying toxic cesspool lol sorry

this community is a toxic cesspool in general, whats another two worms crawlin' around in it u feel

edit: dying toxic cesspool lol sorry
115
#115
ETF2L
68 Frags +

The following reflects my personal opinion, not the one of ETF2L or any of its staffmembers:

I have been struggling with banning these two players up until fairly close to when we published the post. I am aware that it seems arbitrary to ban these two players for something that happened on twitter.
For me, what really pushed me over the edge is that not only did they not apologise, pred kept taking the piss on the previous thread. Degu, while posting a statement, also did not show a hint of remorse for his actions.
For the people thinking degu "only posted a picture": he also liked pred's tweet, showing that he did not only post a meme, he also openly supported the racist insult of his friend (acquaintance?). He made a conscious decision when he did both of those things.
Degu's ban is 2 months. One of which is the off-season. So we are effectively banning him from the league for one month, aka 3-4 weeks of ETF2L gameplay. He has been dropped by his Highlander team "Strong Opinions" before we even made our decision.
Pred's ban is not even 5 months long. I do not understand how some people think he is banned for 12 months (seriously, he is banned "until the end of the year" and it is august), which basically means: you are not allowed to play Season 31.
Pred has been labelled as a "leader" in "the bin"s roster. As such, although he is not actively playing most of the matches, he has the power to schedule matches, accept or deny mercs (for our NA friends: ringers), request demos.... etc. The team that gives a man like him these kind of powers cannot complain if they are held accountable for his actions. Of course I am aware that there are people on the team who do not support the way he behaved, but we also didn't scratch 100% of the earnings. From what I understand at least muuki (a teammate), if not others, still do not see how any of this warrants an action from our side.

Is this treatment harsh? Yeah. Have we not treated similar or related cases like this in the past? Likely. We do not deny that this case is a matter of setting a precedence. Sometimes it takes an additional shove to second-guess yourself. However, just because we made mistakes in the past, it doesn't mean we should keep doing them in the future. And it's not like we have deleted the two players forever: they have a chance to redeem themselves after 2 and 4 months.

The goal has to be to learn from our past mistakes. And this case, for numerous reasons, marks a change in the way we are looking at these behaviors.

The following reflects my personal opinion, not the one of ETF2L or any of its staffmembers:

I have been struggling with banning these two players up until fairly close to when we published the post. I am aware that it seems arbitrary to ban these two players for something that happened on twitter.
For me, what really pushed me over the edge is that not only did they not apologise, pred kept taking the piss on the previous thread. Degu, while posting a statement, also did not show a hint of remorse for his actions.
For the people thinking degu "only posted a picture": he also liked pred's tweet, showing that he did not only post a meme, he also openly supported the racist insult of his friend (acquaintance?). He made a conscious decision when he did both of those things.
Degu's ban is 2 months. One of which is the off-season. So we are effectively banning him from the league for one month, aka 3-4 weeks of ETF2L gameplay. He has been dropped by his Highlander team "Strong Opinions" before we even made our decision.
Pred's ban is not even 5 months long. I do not understand how some people think he is banned for 12 months (seriously, he is banned "until the end of the year" and it is august), which basically means: you are not allowed to play Season 31.
Pred has been labelled as a "leader" in "the bin"s roster. As such, although he is not actively playing most of the matches, he has the power to schedule matches, accept or deny mercs (for our NA friends: ringers), request demos.... etc. The team that gives a man like him these kind of powers cannot complain if they are held accountable for his actions. Of course I am aware that there are people on the team who do not support the way he behaved, but we also didn't scratch 100% of the earnings. From what I understand [b]at least muuki[/b] (a teammate), if not others, still do not see how any of this warrants an action from our side.

Is this treatment harsh? Yeah. Have we not treated similar or related cases like this in the past? Likely. We do not deny that this case is a matter of setting a precedence. Sometimes it takes an additional shove to second-guess yourself. However, just because we made mistakes in the past, it doesn't mean we should keep doing them in the future. And it's not like we have deleted the two players forever: they have a chance to redeem themselves after 2 and 4 months.

The goal has to be to learn from our past mistakes. And this case, for numerous reasons, marks a change in the way we are looking at these behaviors.
116
#116
27 Frags +

@stinson will you look into the other open cases aswell?

@stinson will you look into the other open cases aswell?
117
#117
25 Frags +
Stinson_Out From what I understand at least muuki (a teammate), if not others, still do not see how any of this warrants an action from our side.

list of things i am not against:
banning pred

list of things i am against:
banning degu
cutting 50% of our prize money
not banning any of the racist or otherwise offensive players on other teams while at the same time removing their warnings for similar behaviour just a couple of weeks prior to this event

here is my official stance that represents me

[quote=Stinson_Out] From what I understand [b]at least muuki[/b] (a teammate), if not others, still do not see how any of this warrants an action from our side.

[/quote]
list of things i am not against:
banning pred

list of things i am against:
banning degu
cutting 50% of our prize money
not banning any of the racist or otherwise offensive players on other teams while at the same time removing their warnings for similar behaviour just a couple of weeks prior to this event


here is my official stance that represents me
118
#118
21 Frags +

just for clarity

https://twitter.com/phorofor_/status/1026930269268389890

just for clarity

https://twitter.com/phorofor_/status/1026930269268389890
119
#119
-1 Frags +

Does anyone actually use the tags (i.e. Leader, war arranger, buddy) in a serious way? ive never seen it

Does anyone actually use the tags (i.e. Leader, war arranger, buddy) in a serious way? ive never seen it
120
#120
42 Frags +
Gaz
It doesn't matter. You don't impulsively call somebody a gook or nig*** if you don't mean to use it as an insult.

why do you censor one but not the other

[quote=Gaz]

It doesn't matter. You don't impulsively call somebody a gook or nig*** if you don't mean to use it as an insult.[/quote]
why do you censor one but not the other
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