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b4nny doesn't support iseries
1
#1
0 Frags +

http://www.twitch.tv/b4nny/v/498751227?sr=a&t=2274s
37:54 in case the link fucks up
42:35 for a deeper explanation

Basically, he said that he doesn't support projects that are "built to stagnate the growth of the game" including stuff like insomnia and pugchamp. How exactly does the biggest and most established intercontinental lan stagnate the game? Discuss

http://www.twitch.tv/b4nny/v/498751227?sr=a&t=2274s
37:54 in case the link fucks up
42:35 for a deeper explanation

Basically, he said that he doesn't support projects that are "built to stagnate the growth of the game" including stuff like insomnia and pugchamp. How exactly does the biggest and most established intercontinental lan stagnate the game? Discuss
2
#2
payload.tf
47 Frags +

nacl > rgl
iseries > most other lans (exception: bts2020)

why would he say these platforms stagnate a already decreasing-popular game? new must replace the old...

nacl > rgl
iseries > most other lans (exception: bts2020)

why would he say these platforms stagnate a already decreasing-popular game? new must replace the old...
3
#3
68 Frags +

does he understand the meaning of the word stagnate?

does he understand the meaning of the word stagnate?
4
#4
70 Frags +

Can't wait for b4nny to organize a lan where we can use 4 sentries and chain ubers

Can't wait for b4nny to organize a lan where we can use 4 sentries and chain ubers
5
#5
41 Frags +

can u even stagnate a game that is in limbo for real

can u even stagnate a game that is in limbo for real
6
#6
0 Frags +

b4n b4nny for lan dodging :^)

b4n b4nny for lan dodging :^)
7
#7
61 Frags +

From skimming through the VOD it seems that the issues that he brought up with the 30 minute time limit (garbage time and stalemating) does not really align with the proposed changes b4nny's put forward in the past which have been considered quite radical. I don't think the majority of players would be opposed to a !gg plugin so that teams dont have to sit through garbage time but these kind of minor changes are not the ones that b4nny has proposed in the past.

He's bringing up minor issues and using them to justify major changes like no whitelists/class limits. I would like to have him elaborate more on this if he's reading this thread so that we can come to a better understanding.

From skimming through the VOD it seems that the issues that he brought up with the 30 minute time limit (garbage time and stalemating) does not really align with the proposed changes b4nny's put forward in the past which have been considered quite radical. I don't think the majority of players would be opposed to a !gg plugin so that teams dont have to sit through garbage time but these kind of minor changes are not the ones that b4nny has proposed in the past.

He's bringing up minor issues and using them to justify major changes like no whitelists/class limits. I would like to have him elaborate more on this if he's reading this thread so that we can come to a better understanding.
8
#8
9 Frags +

hes right but his complete disregard of these forums and like giving us a proper solution to these issues demonstrates that he has lost all faith in the community as a whole, which then actually stagnates everything because hes not working with us, at least to a proper degree

a lotta shit he was saying when he was talking wouldnt solve those issues anyway

hes right but his complete disregard of these forums and like giving us a proper solution to these issues demonstrates that he has lost all faith in the community as a whole, which then actually stagnates everything because hes not working with us, at least to a proper degree

a lotta shit he was saying when he was talking wouldnt solve those issues anyway
9
#9
8 Frags +

From what is said at "deeper explanation" he seems to believe stagnation for potential payoffs is bad. But he also believes we just need to give Valve more time and comp feedback and they'll start supporting us. Makes no sense

From what is said at "deeper explanation" he seems to believe stagnation for potential payoffs is bad. But he also believes we just need to give Valve more time and comp feedback and they'll start supporting us. Makes no sense
10
#10
61 Frags +
TobBut he also believes we just need to give Valve more time and comp feedback and they'll start supporting us

Valve hasn't reacted to the feedback we gave them already so i think we can write them off at this point.

[quote=Tob]But he also believes we just need to give Valve more time and comp feedback and they'll start supporting us[/quote]
Valve hasn't reacted to the feedback we gave them already so i think we can write them off at this point.
11
#11
36 Frags +

He says it because he thinks that anyone and anything that doesn't agree with him or his ideas is wrong and they should be ignored and shunned. He doesn't care about the greater community, he only cares about his singular vision.

He says it because he thinks that anyone and anything that doesn't agree with him or his ideas is wrong and they should be ignored and shunned. He doesn't care about the greater community, he only cares about his singular vision.
12
#12
14 Frags +
TobFrom what is said at "deeper explanation" he seems to believe stagnation for potential payoffs is bad. But he also believes we just need to give Valve more time and comp feedback and they'll start supporting us

as much as i love to sit, and hope and give valve the benefit of the doubt, valve will NEVER support TF2 so that it becomes a major esport.

they will sit, leech the game dry with its epic cosmetics and then shut the servers off

[quote=Tob]From what is said at "deeper explanation" he seems to believe stagnation for potential payoffs is bad. But he also believes we just need to give Valve more time and comp feedback and they'll start supporting us[/quote]

as much as i love to sit, and hope and give valve the benefit of the doubt, valve will NEVER support TF2 so that it becomes a major esport.

they will sit, leech the game dry with its epic cosmetics and then shut the servers off
13
#13
11 Frags +

we dont need and never have needed any support from valve. theyve only fucked the game

idk why u guys think if they just throw money at the game then itll be good thats not how it works and even if it is how it works thats awful

as a community our focus should purely be how can we make the game more enjoyable to play

we dont need and never have needed any support from valve. theyve only fucked the game

idk why u guys think if they just throw money at the game then itll be good thats not how it works and even if it is how it works thats awful

as a community our focus should purely be how can we make the game more enjoyable to play
14
#14
0 Frags +

we're in a pretty good place right now in terms of fun gameplay, no?

we're in a pretty good place right now in terms of fun gameplay, no?
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#15
3 Frags +

no otherwise everyone wouldnt be saying how much they dont like playing tf2 and raging and crying all the time.

i think the majority of players would say they play tf2 because they dont kno wat else to do, not because they enjoy it. lots of players are mad frustrated all the time and yelling in twitch clips

ppl hate that the game is based around scouts
ppl hate the map selections (for some reason)
the pug systems
how slow the game has become

things like that. we should be attempting to fix these issues as a comunity bun watever valve is gonna do

u do not want a game like overwatch where people dont even like the game but are playing it as a job. u dont want some soulless meaningless shit. 1m tournamenr would just go to bannt no one even cared about sigafoo paying out of pocket they just let that go to banny a giant stadium and a million dollars isnt gonna change that if the games potential has already been reached

and if the games potential has already been reached and we cant fix these issues as a community then in no way do we even deserve that big stadium

no otherwise everyone wouldnt be saying how much they dont like playing tf2 and raging and crying all the time.

i think the majority of players would say they play tf2 because they dont kno wat else to do, not because they enjoy it. lots of players are mad frustrated all the time and yelling in twitch clips

ppl hate that the game is based around scouts
ppl hate the map selections (for some reason)
the pug systems
how slow the game has become

things like that. we should be attempting to fix these issues as a comunity bun watever valve is gonna do

u do not want a game like overwatch where people dont even like the game but are playing it as a job. u dont want some soulless meaningless shit. 1m tournamenr would just go to bannt no one even cared about sigafoo paying out of pocket they just let that go to banny a giant stadium and a million dollars isnt gonna change that if the games potential has already been reached

and if the games potential has already been reached and we cant fix these issues as a community then in no way do we even deserve that big stadium
16
#16
7 Frags +

yeah i getcha, what do you reckon could be done to improve the gameplay?

imo, i still think TF2 has some of the best gameplay compared to a lot of games out right now; though i've been playing since 2007 so I could be a little biased due to nostalgia and all that

edit: top question has been answered hehe

-

yeah i getcha, what do you reckon could be done to improve the gameplay?

imo, i still think TF2 has some of the best gameplay compared to a lot of games out right now; though i've been playing since 2007 so I could be a little biased due to nostalgia and all that

edit: top question has been answered hehe

-
17
#17
77 Frags +
funhaver1998we dont need and never have needed any support from valve. theyve only fucked the game

idk why u guys think if they just throw money at the game then itll be good thats not how it works and even if it is how it works thats awful

as a community our focus should purely be how can we make the game more enjoyable to play

that is unfortunately very much how it works for modern games. esports became very profitable very quickly and so companies and investors jumped on the opportunity to artificially churn out games and leagues in pursuit of money off of esports. games like CS, dota, starcraft, etc that only became esports once the money caught up to the passion are so few in number comparatively, because you have to create your esports quickly now as opposed to just letting them grow organically.

i agree that the reality of the situation is terrible, though. tf2 would definitely be an esport if money were thrown at it and leagues were made to profit off of that. however, it would probably be a no class limits, all items available, chaotic tf2 that would need many iterations of balancing to get it to an enjoyable level. in fact, there's so much of this game that makes it good that would have to be changed if you wanted a real esport out of it, so it's really just unrealistic.

[quote=funhaver1998]we dont need and never have needed any support from valve. theyve only fucked the game

idk why u guys think if they just throw money at the game then itll be good thats not how it works and even if it is how it works thats awful

as a community our focus should purely be how can we make the game more enjoyable to play[/quote]

that is unfortunately very much how it works for modern games. esports became very profitable very quickly and so companies and investors jumped on the opportunity to artificially churn out games and leagues in pursuit of money off of esports. games like CS, dota, starcraft, etc that only became esports once the money caught up to the passion are so few in number comparatively, because you have to create your esports quickly now as opposed to just letting them grow organically.

i agree that the reality of the situation is terrible, though. tf2 would definitely be an esport if money were thrown at it and leagues were made to profit off of that. however, it would probably be a no class limits, all items available, chaotic tf2 that would need many iterations of balancing to get it to an enjoyable level. in fact, there's so much of this game that makes it good that would have to be changed if you wanted a real esport out of it, so it's really just unrealistic.
18
#18
4 Frags +

yeah i get that but i dont think the goal for this game should be become an esport theres too many of those every game that comes out in 2019 is an esport

wats wrong with just being a good game? it should never be about money its just a little side hobby

like if i woke up tomorrow to a post saying how theres a 1m tourny, that will effect no other players lives than froyo and 7 members. idk about the other ppl here but i wouldnt care at all and just play the game the same way. it would kinda make it worse if the community just miraculously got bigger because we’d lose the ability to just kno everyone with it being a tight knit community

wed just get a bunch of ppl who dont give a shit about the game and then potentially u and Seagull but thats kinda the only bonus that will effect me, The Common Gamer.

yeah i get that but i dont think the goal for this game should be become an esport theres too many of those every game that comes out in 2019 is an esport

wats wrong with just being a good game? it should never be about money its just a little side hobby

like if i woke up tomorrow to a post saying how theres a 1m tourny, that will effect no other players lives than froyo and 7 members. idk about the other ppl here but i wouldnt care at all and just play the game the same way. it would kinda make it worse if the community just miraculously got bigger because we’d lose the ability to just kno everyone with it being a tight knit community

wed just get a bunch of ppl who dont give a shit about the game and then potentially u and Seagull but thats kinda the only bonus that will effect me, The Common Gamer.
19
#19
-1 Frags +

game isnt based around scouts only brainlets hate playing against it. game is based around ubercharge and chokes simple as. except koth where it's different lol !

game isnt based around scouts only brainlets hate playing against it. game is based around ubercharge and chokes simple as. except koth where it's different lol !
20
#20
81 Frags +

*shrug*

people are just very committed to the idea of the game becoming an esport. it's understandable, because nothing sounds cooler than playing the game you love as your job. but in a lot of cases, that glamour is just idealistic. I went to play overwatch solely to understand and experience what playing a game as a passion-fueled career would be like. but unless you have the right game, that career is really just a job you have to put mindless time into. there are a few people that i'm sure are living their dreams, like cs players who have been grinding the series for a decade, or who grew up on watching and playing it like a kid would player soccer or baseball, to then become one of the people they looked up to their whole lives. i don't really think that's too common, though.

*shrug*

people are just very committed to the idea of the game becoming an esport. it's understandable, because nothing sounds [i]cooler[/i] than playing the game you love as your job. but in a lot of cases, that glamour is just idealistic. I went to play overwatch solely to understand and experience what playing a game as a passion-fueled career would be like. but unless you have the right game, that career is really just a job you have to put mindless time into. there are a few people that i'm sure are living their dreams, like cs players who have been grinding the series for a decade, or who grew up on watching and playing it like a kid would player soccer or baseball, to then become one of the people they looked up to their whole lives. i don't really think that's too common, though.
21
#21
4 Frags +
funhaver1998we dont need and never have needed any support from valve. theyve only fucked the game

idk why u guys think if they just throw money at the game then itll be good thats not how it works and even if it is how it works thats awful

as a community our focus should purely be how can we make the game more enjoyable to play

prizepools? people having motivation to actually try at the game? people developing ways to practice to get better for the prizes?
we all play the game for fun but at the end of the day we're all going to grow up and eventually leave this game for other games if we don't have more reason to stay. a bunch of pros in OW have said they'd love to continue playing tf2 but they have to get money to live and so they play overwatch.
money makes the world go round', they don't need to actually change balancing but giving us money to use is one of the single best things they can do

[quote=funhaver1998]we dont need and never have needed any support from valve. theyve only fucked the game

idk why u guys think if they just throw money at the game then itll be good thats not how it works and even if it is how it works thats awful

as a community our focus should purely be how can we make the game more enjoyable to play[/quote]
prizepools? people having motivation to actually try at the game? people developing ways to practice to get better for the prizes?
we all play the game for fun but at the end of the day we're all going to grow up and eventually leave this game for other games if we don't have more reason to stay. a bunch of pros in OW have said they'd love to continue playing tf2 but they have to get money to live and so they play overwatch.
money makes the world go round', they don't need to actually change balancing but giving us money to use is one of the single best things they can do
22
#22
10 Frags +

for me personally the biggest issue is how uninteresting the iseries lans have been for the past 2(?) years. watching the game is just not entertaining at all anymore.

like i remember screwming at my facking monitor watching that froyo vs nR game and i didnt even have an interest at 6s back then. that’s completely gone now it was just pug teams and then some somewhat cringe finals

i think like banny is suggesting we need to change this format, and nows the best chance to do it in tbe winter season where teams just kinda fack around.

the iseries is really the most important part of the scene. it introduces the most people to the game and showcases it to the community where u will see pros from other games and twitch staff in the chat. we are showing these ppl some slug ass molasses shitty facking gameplay and we cannot expect anyone to give a shit when we dont really even care

needs to be like a fully charged or some shit to talk about this and bannys gotta be on board to give his own views and work together or he can just pack it in mate and go pub

fully charge should consist of kaido, twikuu, banny, sigafool and be hosted by Getawhale/eXtine/WARHURYEAH, wearing a suit.

for me personally the biggest issue is how uninteresting the iseries lans have been for the past 2(?) years. watching the game is just not entertaining at all anymore.

like i remember screwming at my facking monitor watching that froyo vs nR game and i didnt even have an interest at 6s back then. that’s completely gone now it was just pug teams and then some somewhat cringe finals

i think like banny is suggesting we need to change this format, and nows the best chance to do it in tbe winter season where teams just kinda fack around.

the iseries is really the most important part of the scene. it introduces the most people to the game and showcases it to the community where u will see pros from other games and twitch staff in the chat. we are showing these ppl some slug ass molasses shitty facking gameplay and we cannot expect anyone to give a shit when we dont really even care


needs to be like a fully charged or some shit to talk about this and bannys gotta be on board to give his own views and work together or he can just pack it in mate and go pub

fully charge should consist of kaido, twikuu, banny, sigafool and be hosted by Getawhale/eXtine/WARHURYEAH, wearing a suit.
23
#23
77 Frags +

https://puu.sh/CoXuy/a7405176d5.png

just so u all know what this actual smooth brain thinks is a good idea of a format

[img]https://puu.sh/CoXuy/a7405176d5.png[/img]
just so u all know what this actual smooth brain thinks is a good idea of a format
24
#24
eXtelevision
63 Frags +

b4nny has a bit of a point, but for him to say that he's not going to support anything that promotes everything he umbrella together as "stagnation" is a joke, homie just won RGL.gg upper bracket finals for TRADITIONAL 6s. He's not going to support anything that promotes "stagnation" but he is gonna cash that check.

I agree with his point that people do use big tournaments to try to justify keeping things the same. I've talked to a bunch of top players who are down to slowly shift competitive TF2 more towards Valve's format, but are concerned with it drastically shifting.

If b4nny really wanted to show that things are so stagnant, he should have showed up at i65 and showed us the new meta.He had 4 months to be the change he wants to see.

b4nny seems really disconnected from what the i65 eXperience was like for the attendees. Getting to LAN is a lot of fun and a big accomplishment, b4nny sounds pretty jaded about it.

I decided to step away from traditional 6s a ways back in favor of developing Arena:Respawn, at the time I didn't like how 6s was being developed so I tried to help push competitive TF2 in other ways. If b4nny is going to not support anything leading towards "stagnation" then is he going to do anything to help change happen? Or just be stagnant himself and stream casual TF2 while winning whatever tournament offers $$$?

b4nny has a bit of a point, but for him to say that he's not going to support anything that promotes everything he umbrella together as "stagnation" is a joke, homie just won RGL.gg upper bracket finals for TRADITIONAL 6s. He's not going to support anything that promotes "stagnation" but he is gonna cash that check.

I agree with his point that people do use big tournaments to try to justify keeping things the same. I've talked to a bunch of top players who are down to slowly shift competitive TF2 more towards Valve's format, but are concerned with it drastically shifting.

If b4nny really wanted to show that things are so stagnant, he should have showed up at i65 and showed us the new meta.He had 4 months to be the change he wants to see.

b4nny seems really disconnected from what the i65 eXperience was like for the attendees. Getting to LAN is a lot of fun and a big accomplishment, b4nny sounds pretty jaded about it.

I decided to step away from traditional 6s a ways back in favor of developing Arena:Respawn, at the time I didn't like how 6s was being developed so I tried to help push competitive TF2 in other ways. If b4nny is going to not support anything leading towards "stagnation" then is he going to do anything to help change happen? Or just be stagnant himself and stream casual TF2 while winning whatever tournament offers $$$?
25
#25
-2 Frags +

thats not what he actually wants tho BumFreeze hes jusr bending over for GabeN so he would throw money at him

thats not what he actually wants tho BumFreeze hes jusr bending over for GabeN so he would throw money at him
26
#26
22 Frags +

time for an opinion article

time for an opinion article
27
#27
25 Frags +
eXtineb4nny seems really disconnected from what the i65 eXperience was like for the attendees. Getting to LAN is a lot of fun and a big accomplishment, b4nny sounds pretty jaded about it.

to be fair he has gone to like 8 billion lans

[quote=eXtine]
b4nny seems really disconnected from what the i65 eXperience was like for the attendees. Getting to LAN is a lot of fun and a big accomplishment, b4nny sounds pretty jaded about it. [/quote]
to be fair he has gone to like 8 billion lans
28
#28
whitelist.tf
38 Frags +

Guess we won't be seeing b4nny at Copenhagen Games 2020, his loss for missing out on a top tier EU LAN event ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Guess we won't be seeing b4nny at Copenhagen Games 2020, his loss for missing out on a top tier EU LAN event ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
29
#29
75 Frags +

if banny had mates he would come to lan

if banny had mates he would come to lan
30
#30
TFNew
33 Frags +

b4nny doesnt support pugchamp because its made to "stagnate" but then his own pugging platform (TF2PL) is the same format of 6s with restrictions? hmm

b4nny doesnt support pugchamp because its made to "stagnate" but then his own pugging platform (TF2PL) is the same format of 6s with restrictions? hmm
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