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Can you justify why you're not vegan
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61
#61
4 Frags +

I cant give up fried chicken

I cant give up fried chicken
62
#62
0 Frags +

I can definitely reduce the amount of meat i eat, but I can't completely give it up

I'm going to try plant based meat soon and I really like vegetables so I'll probably start eating less meat aside from family parties (asian culture be like this)

you'd also have to take into consideration that there are farms meant for the breeding of meat based products that go to fast food companies and it would take a radical social policy and cultural shift for co2 emissions to lower

I can definitely reduce the amount of meat i eat, but I can't completely give it up

I'm going to try plant based meat soon and I really like vegetables so I'll probably start eating less meat aside from family parties (asian culture be like this)

you'd also have to take into consideration that there are farms meant for the breeding of meat based products that go to fast food companies and it would take a radical social policy and cultural shift for co2 emissions to lower
63
#63
9 Frags +

You can eat even high quality meat EXTREMELY cheaply if you know what you're doing. The same goes for Fruit/vegs too.

The trick for fruit/vedge, learn what is actually in season in your area, and figure out where the farmer's markets are. You can almost always get farm fresh stuff way cheaper than the supermarket so long as its in season. Eggs included if you're down with meat.

The trick to cheaper meat products is a little less intuitive. Unless you live in a major city, chances are the meat that ends up butchered at a butcher shop and the meat from the supermarket are virtually the same - there will be specialty items at the butcher shop, but there's no way they can afford to stock as much meat as they need to turn a profit, so a lot of it is sourced from the same place. So, you're basically not declining much in quality in some cases by just going to the supermarket. Then, once you're there ask a worker for where they put the discounted meats or stuff that's expiring. For example at my local kroger, they almost always put the stuff that expires *that day* nearest to the door into the butcher shop area. For example last week I picked up 3 NY strip steaks over 1 1/2 inches thick for 12$ total because they expired "Sell By Date" *that* day. Not only are they safe to eat if you just leave them in the fridge for a few days, but I just went ahead and cooked all three - then they last even longer and were nice to take to lunch.

It would be pretty difficult to compete with the ~50 grams or more of protein at 4$ a piece on a vegan diet.

If you're on a budget it pays to go to the grocery store more often and buy less stuff in total.

You can eat even high quality meat EXTREMELY cheaply if you know what you're doing. The same goes for Fruit/vegs too.

The trick for fruit/vedge, learn what is actually in season in your area, and figure out where the farmer's markets are. You can almost always get farm fresh stuff way cheaper than the supermarket so long as its in season. Eggs included if you're down with meat.

The trick to cheaper meat products is a little less intuitive. Unless you live in a major city, chances are the meat that ends up butchered at a butcher shop and the meat from the supermarket are virtually the same - there will be specialty items at the butcher shop, but there's no way they can afford to stock as much meat as they need to turn a profit, so a lot of it is sourced from the same place. So, you're basically not declining much in quality in some cases by just going to the supermarket. Then, once you're there ask a worker for where they put the discounted meats or stuff that's expiring. For example at my local kroger, they almost always put the stuff that expires *that day* nearest to the door into the butcher shop area. For example last week I picked up 3 NY strip steaks over 1 1/2 inches thick for 12$ total because they expired "Sell By Date" *that* day. Not only are they safe to eat if you just leave them in the fridge for a few days, but I just went ahead and cooked all three - then they last even longer and were nice to take to lunch.

It would be pretty difficult to compete with the ~50 grams or more of protein at 4$ a piece on a vegan diet.

If you're on a budget it pays to go to the grocery store more often and buy less stuff in total.
64
#64
1 Frags +

i eat predominantly vegan, however when eating socially i will eat what everyone else eats

i eat predominantly vegan, however when eating socially i will eat what everyone else eats
65
#65
2 Frags +

food and hungry

food and hungry
66
#66
0 Frags +

I've worked in farms and abattoirs so I know animals (that I've worked around) aren't mistreated here, so that aspect doesn't bother me. It's probably different in other countries, but I'm not buying my meat from other countries. Caged chickens are concerning, but that's moving to be totally phased out and I can't give up my walking bird of gains. Environmentally, going vegan would be the ethical thing to do, but diet is important to me so that would be a big lifestyle change. To me, it's not worth the effort just to feel better myself. I'd rather support better environmental practices in other ways.

I've worked in farms and abattoirs so I know animals (that I've worked around) aren't mistreated here, so that aspect doesn't bother me. It's probably different in other countries, but I'm not buying my meat from other countries. Caged chickens are concerning, but that's moving to be totally phased out and I can't give up my walking bird of gains. Environmentally, going vegan would be the ethical thing to do, but diet is important to me so that would be a big lifestyle change. To me, it's not worth the effort just to feel better myself. I'd rather support better environmental practices in other ways.
67
#67
-3 Frags +

veganism is a very efficient way to feel great about yourself and your moral choices, considering that all the actual work and effort of being a good person is done for you and all you're doing is buying shit from large corporations that also have a negative impact on the environment & animals + may or may not use suspect third world factories that may or may not abuse their workers or use child labour
remember that it's very easy for a company to not know or "not know" in whatever situation ends up coming out, and if/when it does, you can be sure that they'll make a statement and donate some comparatively low amount to some charity, which just makes them champions for the environment/human rights and that means you're obviously still a great person

it being extremely fucking hard, if not impossible to avoid having a profoundly negative impact on the world is no excuse to not make any effort at all, but if someone is asking the question, that person should probably at least consider that their standpoint is the most boring, low effort and bruhed out take on morality/environmentalism imaginable and maybe even just be a bit of a maverick and justify their own impacts

veganism is a very efficient way to feel great about yourself and your moral choices, considering that all the actual work and effort of being a good person is done for you and all you're doing is buying shit from large corporations that also have a negative impact on the environment & animals + may or may not use suspect third world factories that may or may not abuse their workers or use child labour
remember that it's very easy for a company to not know or "not know" in whatever situation ends up coming out, and if/when it does, you can be sure that they'll make a statement and donate some comparatively low amount to some charity, which just makes them champions for the environment/human rights and that means you're obviously still a great person

it being extremely fucking hard, if not impossible to avoid having a profoundly negative impact on the world is no excuse to not make any effort at all, but if someone is asking the question, that person should probably at least consider that their standpoint is the most boring, low effort and bruhed out take on morality/environmentalism imaginable and maybe even just be a bit of a maverick and justify their own impacts
68
#68
1 Frags +

veganism without supplementation is not optimal for health. it lacks essential nutrients such as but not limited to vitamin a, d, b6, b12 and k2

furthermore there's nothing unethical about killing animals for food. life consumes life and eating a cow is the same as eating a head of lettuce. the difference is that we can empathize with cows because we are also mammals.

others have touched on the dubious environmental claims but i would like to add that the vast majority of the world's oceanic pollution(95+%) originates from a small handful of asian countries and no amount of lentils is going to put a dent into that. indians bathe in the holy ganges river which is quite literally a river of trash and raw sewage.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.7b02368
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8lu9ntmPJo

veganism without supplementation is not optimal for health. it lacks essential nutrients such as but not limited to vitamin a, d, b6, b12 and k2

furthermore there's nothing unethical about killing animals for food. life consumes life and eating a cow is the same as eating a head of lettuce. the difference is that we can empathize with cows because we are also mammals.

others have touched on the dubious environmental claims but i would like to add that the vast majority of the world's oceanic pollution(95+%) originates from a small handful of asian countries and no amount of lentils is going to put a dent into that. indians bathe in the holy ganges river which is quite literally a river of trash and raw sewage.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.7b02368
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8lu9ntmPJo
69
#69
7 Frags +

I've been vegan for nearly a year now.

There's no ethical consumption under capitalism, but personally I feel happier not contributing to the animal agriculture industry.
Modern animal agriculture (as well as the crops grown to feed animals) produces more emissions than all modes of transport combined and is so incredibly damaging to the environment.
Not to mention the extent of animal abuse/lack of regulation in abattoirs etc, at least here is Australia.

I eat a lot of beans, legumes, pasta, fresh vegetables, fruit, nuts, bread, healthy oils. Plus tons of fast-food places and supermarkets have vegan options now. I'm still learning a lot about the nutrition side of things but I'm feeling pretty happy with where I'm at.

I've been vegan for nearly a year now.

There's no ethical consumption under capitalism, but personally I feel happier not contributing to the animal agriculture industry.
Modern animal agriculture (as well as the crops grown to feed animals) produces more emissions than all modes of transport combined and is so incredibly damaging to the environment.
Not to mention the extent of animal abuse/lack of regulation in abattoirs etc, at least here is Australia.

I eat a lot of beans, legumes, pasta, fresh vegetables, fruit, nuts, bread, healthy oils. Plus tons of fast-food places and supermarkets have vegan options now. I'm still learning a lot about the nutrition side of things but I'm feeling pretty happy with where I'm at.
70
#70
1 Frags +

i try to avoid beef and i'll buy ocean wise seafood over regular but i'll still eat meat. I acknowledge that there are ethical and environmental problems with meat consumption but i don't care enough to search for ethical meat. I'll feel bad but i'll still eat it.

I'm really looking forward to lab grown meat because if it's more green than regular farming, which won't be that hard, it'll satisfy both my problems with eating meat.

The only reason i avoid beef is to make myself feel better about the environment even though i know it doesn't have any real impact and oceanwise is cool cuz im biased towards the vancouver aquarium.

i try to avoid beef and i'll buy ocean wise seafood over regular but i'll still eat meat. I acknowledge that there are ethical and environmental problems with meat consumption but i don't care enough to search for ethical meat. I'll feel bad but i'll still eat it.

I'm really looking forward to lab grown meat because if it's more green than regular farming, which won't be that hard, it'll satisfy both my problems with eating meat.

The only reason i avoid beef is to make myself feel better about the environment even though i know it doesn't have any real impact and oceanwise is cool cuz im biased towards the vancouver aquarium.
71
#71
-8 Frags +

.

.
72
#72
3 Frags +
Saltysally1why do i have to justify eating meat? shouldn't i have to justify purchasing meat that is being farmed inhumanely? if the reason you're vegan is because inexpensive animals are mistreated you should eat animals that are free-range. I think it's weird how someone can logically understand Darwinism while also saying mistreating animals is immoral.

Do you think that survival of the fittest is a moral framework?

[quote=Saltysally1]why do i have to justify eating meat? shouldn't i have to justify purchasing meat that is being farmed inhumanely? if the reason you're vegan is because inexpensive animals are mistreated you should eat animals that are free-range. I think it's weird how someone can logically understand Darwinism while also saying mistreating animals is immoral.[/quote]
Do you think that survival of the fittest is a moral framework?
73
#73
-4 Frags +

Anytime i see threads like these i want to post something only i find funny, but i restraint myself. Its like im going through withdrawal, these threads are so dumb my brain is melting.

Anytime i see threads like these i want to post something only i find funny, but i restraint myself. Its like im going through withdrawal, these threads are so dumb my brain is melting.
74
#74
-1 Frags +

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIJojNFXUAEcoeU.jpg

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIJojNFXUAEcoeU.jpg[/img]
75
#75
16 Frags +
-protoIf letting a 2500mcg fruit flavoured cyanocobalamin B12 tablet dissolve under your tongue once a week is too hard for you, I don’t know what to say.

if a diet lacking essential vitamins needed for happy healthy humans requires you to supplement with synthetic cyanocobalamin b12 out of a bottle when you can get methylcobalamin b12, which 1) can only be acquired from animal products and 2)is vastly more bio-available, then perhaps this diet is better suited for deer.

your point about the evil meat industry lobbyists is moot because every industry has lobbyists. do you honestly think the vegan industry is untouched by corporate greed and doesn't sponsor countless events and studies in their own favor? it's all about the money baby.

i'm glad you feel better and your dick works again but all that is more likely attributed to moving away from the standard american diet and exercise regime than it is to the vegan diet.

[quote=-proto]If letting a 2500mcg fruit flavoured cyanocobalamin B12 tablet dissolve under your tongue once a week is too hard for you, I don’t know what to say. [/quote]

if a diet lacking essential vitamins needed for happy healthy humans requires you to supplement with synthetic cyanocobalamin b12 out of a bottle when you can get methylcobalamin b12, which 1) can only be acquired from animal products and 2)is vastly more bio-available, then perhaps this diet is better suited for deer.

your point about the evil meat industry lobbyists is moot because every industry has lobbyists. do you honestly think the vegan industry is untouched by corporate greed and doesn't sponsor countless events and studies in their own favor? it's all about the money baby.

i'm glad you feel better and your dick works again but all that is more likely attributed to moving away from the standard american diet and exercise regime than it is to the vegan diet.
76
#76
13 Frags +

I think we should all eat a cannibal diet to reduce pollution tbh

I think we should all eat a cannibal diet to reduce pollution tbh
77
#77
22 Frags +

Is being a farmer the ultimate cuckoldry?

I cannot think of or comprehend anything more cucked than raising livestock. Honestly, think about it rationally. You are feeding, training, raising and rearing an animal for years solely so they can go and get devoured by another man. All the hard work you put into your beautiful little calf - reading her stories at bedtime, making sure she's free-range, making sure she had a healthy diet, playing with her. All of it has one simple result: her body is more enjoyable for the men that will eventually consume every bit of her.

Raised the perfect calf? Great. Who benefits? If you're lucky, a random man who had nothing to do with the way she grew up, cooks and eats her. He gets to enjoy all the muscle and fat tissue that developed to perfection because of you. He gets the benefits of that perfect tenderness that came from the way you raised her.

As a man who raises livestock, you are LITERALLY dedicating your life simply to raise animals for another man to enjoy. It is the ULTIMATE AND FINAL cuck. Think about it logically

Is being a farmer the ultimate cuckoldry?

I cannot think of or comprehend anything more cucked than raising livestock. Honestly, think about it rationally. You are feeding, training, raising and rearing an animal for years solely so they can go and get devoured by another man. All the hard work you put into your beautiful little calf - reading her stories at bedtime, making sure she's free-range, making sure she had a healthy diet, playing with her. All of it has one simple result: her body is more enjoyable for the men that will eventually consume every bit of her.

Raised the perfect calf? Great. Who benefits? If you're lucky, a random man who had nothing to do with the way she grew up, cooks and eats her. He gets to enjoy all the muscle and fat tissue that developed to perfection because of you. He gets the benefits of that perfect tenderness that came from the way you raised her.

As a man who raises livestock, you are LITERALLY dedicating your life simply to raise animals for another man to enjoy. It is the ULTIMATE AND FINAL cuck. Think about it logically
78
#78
-2 Frags +

It’s almost laughable, the "humanely slaughtered" carcasses of animals are frequently coated in animal waste and exposed to high levels of pollutants, and in most places on the planet that's even more.
One could argue that the slaughterhouses are just like the airlines in that they kill a lot of the animals, but do so in safe and controlled conditions. But again, that would completely ignore the rampant animal cruelty that has been allowed to happen on our behalf.

And in terms of the ecological ramifications, there seems little point in continuing our destructive trend if there are alternative options. It makes little sense to continue eating livestock in dire conditions, as we have.

In terms of ecological implications, we are being more concerned with agriculture, but we must also be concerned about other industries that have an impact on environmental issues. In terms of livestock production, it is easy to criticize the animal husbandry practices that produce meat, so there is no reason to question the ethical nature of what we eat.

The cruelty that goes on inside our bodies is not merely being exposed in advertisements but is a constant aspect of eating and breathing as well.

With so many choices available from food manufacturers to the consumer it is surprising that most aren't willing to think critically of their choices. If you're like me, you've probably thought "why do I need to eat a burger when I could make healthier choices with my food and save money."
In my personal opinion, food is fuel. And fuel doesn’t have to taste good all the time.

It’s almost laughable, the "humanely slaughtered" carcasses of animals are frequently coated in animal waste and exposed to high levels of pollutants, and in most places on the planet that's even more.
One could argue that the slaughterhouses are just like the airlines in that they kill a lot of the animals, but do so in safe and controlled conditions. But again, that would completely ignore the rampant animal cruelty that has been allowed to happen on our behalf.

And in terms of the ecological ramifications, there seems little point in continuing our destructive trend if there are alternative options. It makes little sense to continue eating livestock in dire conditions, as we have.

In terms of ecological implications, we are being more concerned with agriculture, but we must also be concerned about other industries that have an impact on environmental issues. In terms of livestock production, it is easy to criticize the animal husbandry practices that produce meat, so there is no reason to question the ethical nature of what we eat.

The cruelty that goes on inside our bodies is not merely being exposed in advertisements but is a constant aspect of eating and breathing as well.

With so many choices available from food manufacturers to the consumer it is surprising that most aren't willing to think critically of their choices. If you're like me, you've probably thought "why do I need to eat a burger when I could make healthier choices with my food and save money."
In my personal opinion, food is fuel. And fuel doesn’t have to taste good all the time.
79
#79
29 Frags +
hooliveganism without supplementation is not optimal for health. it lacks essential nutrients such as but not limited to vitamin a, d, b6, b12 and k2

furthermore there's nothing unethical about killing animals for food. life consumes life and eating a cow is the same as eating a head of lettuce. the difference is that we can empathize with cows because we are also mammals.

others have touched on the dubious environmental claims but i would like to add that the vast majority of the world's oceanic pollution(95+%) originates from a small handful of asian countries and no amount of lentils is going to put a dent into that. indians bathe in the holy ganges river which is quite literally a river of trash and raw sewage.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.7b02368
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8lu9ntmPJo

I don't mean to be rude but I'm extremely confused by your second paragraph. I don't think you're grasping the term "ethical." The point is that the argument of "life consumes life" becomes an ethical dilemma when we, as intelligent and sentient humans, make a conscious choice to consume other sentient, intelligent (albeit, less) organisms. As our intelligence reigns supreme on earth, we can identify the questionable morality of farming livestock en-masse in horrible conditions as a source of food, especially when there are alternatives that will only continue to be more feasible as we advance as a society.

In short, wolves don't share these moral quandaries when eating rabbits because they aren't intelligent enough to consider an ethical framework that supersedes something as basic as a food chain. And even if they could grasp ethics, they don't have the tools to do something about it. However, humans do. And there lies the ethical dilemma.

[quote=hooli]veganism without supplementation is not optimal for health. it lacks essential nutrients such as but not limited to vitamin a, d, b6, b12 and k2

furthermore there's nothing unethical about killing animals for food. life consumes life and eating a cow is the same as eating a head of lettuce. the difference is that we can empathize with cows because we are also mammals.

others have touched on the dubious environmental claims but i would like to add that the vast majority of the world's oceanic pollution(95+%) originates from a small handful of asian countries and no amount of lentils is going to put a dent into that. indians bathe in the holy ganges river which is quite literally a river of trash and raw sewage.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.7b02368
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8lu9ntmPJo[/quote]

I don't mean to be rude but I'm extremely confused by your second paragraph. I don't think you're grasping the term "ethical." The point is that the argument of "life consumes life" becomes an ethical dilemma when we, as intelligent and sentient humans, make a conscious choice to consume other sentient, intelligent (albeit, less) organisms. As our intelligence reigns supreme on earth, we can identify the questionable morality of farming livestock en-masse in horrible conditions as a source of food, especially when there are alternatives that will only continue to be more feasible as we advance as a society.

In short, wolves don't share these moral quandaries when eating rabbits because they aren't intelligent enough to consider an ethical framework that supersedes something as basic as a food chain. And even if they could grasp ethics, they don't have the tools to do something about it. However, humans do. And there lies the ethical dilemma.
80
#80
13 Frags +

I have nothing against animals being farmed/killed for produce.

If the argument is against the quality of life said animals have, I do agree it should improve, but I don't think it's up to the consumer to change this. Government regulations or some higher-body should be seeing to this shit, not the average clueless consumer (same shit goes for carbon emissions, crack-down on corporations, not individuals)

I have nothing against animals being farmed/killed for produce.

If the argument is against the quality of life said animals have, I do agree it should improve, but I don't think it's up to the consumer to change this. Government regulations or some higher-body should be seeing to this shit, not the average clueless consumer (same shit goes for carbon emissions, crack-down on corporations, not individuals)
81
#81
0 Frags +
hooli-protoIf letting a 2500mcg fruit flavoured cyanocobalamin B12 tablet dissolve under your tongue once a week is too hard for you, I don’t know what to say.
if a diet lacking essential vitamins needed for happy healthy humans requires you to supplement with synthetic cyanocobalamin b12 out of a bottle when you can get methylcobalamin b12, which 1) can only be acquired from animal products and 2)is vastly more bio-available, then perhaps this diet is better suited for deer.

your point about the evil meat industry lobbyists is moot because every industry has lobbyists. do you honestly think the vegan industry is untouched by corporate greed and doesn't sponsor countless events and studies in their own favor? it's all about the money baby.

i'm glad you feel better and your dick works again but all that is more likely attributed to moving away from the standard american diet and exercise regime than it is to the vegan diet.
The vitamin B12 (also known as cobalamin) is vital for proper health.
What you might not know is that B12 is produced by bacteria found in soil as well as in the guts of animals (including humans) - but in order for the bacteria to make B12 the soil needs to contain the mineral cobalt. The B12 produced within our guts is too far down our digestive system to be absorbed by our body but is excreted in our feces. Our closest relatives, gorillas, get their B12 from accidental eating of soil (and their own feces) containing B12 when naturally eating their plant-based diet.
Due to declining soil quality from intensive over-farming making the soil deficient in cobalt, and because our vegetables are super-washed (because we would rather not eat soil/manure) vegans don't get enough B12 without supplementation and fortification. Early humans received plenty of B12 from the good quality (cobalt-rich) soil that was yet to be intensively farmed and drained of nutrients, and because they drank dirty ("natural") water from rivers which also contained B12 and B12 producing bacteria. The declining soil quality isn't just a problem for humans though - it's a problem for farmed animals too. Cattle naturally get B12 and bacteria that produces B12 from clumps of dirt around the grass roots, and chickens get B12 from pecking around for worms and other insects. 
But most factory-farmed animals are kept indoors and never even see soil during their lifetimes, so would certainly be deficient without supplementation. These horrible artificial conditions make the "vegan diet is unnatural" argument seem somewhat ironic. In fact, around 95% of all B12 supplements manufactured are actually given to farmed animals.
So people who then consume the meat from these animals are just receiving the B12 which originally came from the supplements fed to the animals. Isn't it far better to simply take a B12 supplement and cut out the middle man?

Do you seriously believe that any plant food lobbies come even close in scale to the meat and dairy cartels? Big broccoli obviously isn’t funding anti meat studies. Only plausible argument I’ve heard is the plant milk companies funding studies demonstrating the dangers of dairy. Let’s say they funded bad faith studies, is a few studies really comparable to the hundreds of bad faith studies that have been funded by the meat and dairy industry? The difference in scale is massive. These cartels have far more power than you’d assume.

[quote=hooli][quote=-proto]If letting a 2500mcg fruit flavoured cyanocobalamin B12 tablet dissolve under your tongue once a week is too hard for you, I don’t know what to say. [/quote]

if a diet lacking essential vitamins needed for happy healthy humans requires you to supplement with synthetic cyanocobalamin b12 out of a bottle when you can get methylcobalamin b12, which 1) can only be acquired from animal products and 2)is vastly more bio-available, then perhaps this diet is better suited for deer.

your point about the evil meat industry lobbyists is moot because every industry has lobbyists. do you honestly think the vegan industry is untouched by corporate greed and doesn't sponsor countless events and studies in their own favor? it's all about the money baby.

i'm glad you feel better and your dick works again but all that is more likely attributed to moving away from the standard american diet and exercise regime than it is to the vegan diet.[/quote]

[quote]The vitamin B12 (also known as cobalamin) is vital for proper health.
What you might not know is that B12 is produced by bacteria found in soil as well as in the guts of animals (including humans) - but in order for the bacteria to make B12 the soil needs to contain the mineral cobalt. The B12 produced within our guts is too far down our digestive system to be absorbed by our body but is excreted in our feces. Our closest relatives, gorillas, get their B12 from accidental eating of soil (and their own feces) containing B12 when naturally eating their plant-based diet.
Due to declining soil quality from intensive over-farming making the soil deficient in cobalt, and because our vegetables are super-washed (because we would rather not eat soil/manure) vegans don't get enough B12 without supplementation and fortification. Early humans received plenty of B12 from the good quality (cobalt-rich) soil that was yet to be intensively farmed and drained of nutrients, and because they drank dirty ("natural") water from rivers which also contained B12 and B12 producing bacteria. The declining soil quality isn't just a problem for humans though - it's a problem for farmed animals too. Cattle naturally get B12 and bacteria that produces B12 from clumps of dirt around the grass roots, and chickens get B12 from pecking around for worms and other insects. 
But most factory-farmed animals are kept indoors and never even see soil during their lifetimes, so would certainly be deficient without supplementation. These horrible artificial conditions make the "vegan diet is unnatural" argument seem somewhat ironic. In fact, around 95% of all B12 supplements manufactured are actually given to farmed animals.
So people who then consume the meat from these animals are just receiving the B12 which originally came from the supplements fed to the animals. Isn't it far better to simply take a B12 supplement and cut out the middle man?[/quote]

Do you seriously believe that any plant food lobbies come even close in scale to the meat and dairy cartels? Big broccoli obviously isn’t funding anti meat studies. Only plausible argument I’ve heard is the plant milk companies funding studies demonstrating the dangers of dairy. Let’s say they funded bad faith studies, is a few studies really comparable to the hundreds of bad faith studies that have been funded by the meat and dairy industry? The difference in scale is massive. These cartels have far more power than you’d assume.
82
#82
10 Frags +

I only drink soylent because I don't want the vegetables to suffer

I only drink soylent because I don't want the vegetables to suffer
83
#83
0 Frags +

Proto have you not heard of sugar industry funding tones of studies to make animal fat out to be the bad guy? I'm not going to talk about the studies on health effects of diets here because there's a ton of conflicting research and the majority of it isn't done independent of the meat or sugar industry. On top of that a ton of studies us epidemiological based studies where people report themselves what they eat and in what amount, but we have evidence that people have no idea how much they eat and often times don't even know what.

Proto have you not heard of sugar industry funding tones of studies to make animal fat out to be the bad guy? I'm not going to talk about the studies on health effects of diets here because there's a ton of conflicting research and the majority of it isn't done independent of the meat or sugar industry. On top of that a ton of studies us epidemiological based studies where people report themselves what they eat and in what amount, but we have evidence that people have no idea how much they eat and often times don't even know what.
84
#84
1 Frags +

@clckwrk thanks for your post. after further consideration i no longer feel like i can defend meat eating from an ethical perspective without splitting hair so i retract that point.

@clckwrk thanks for your post. after further consideration i no longer feel like i can defend meat eating from an ethical perspective without splitting hair so i retract that point.
85
#85
4 Frags +

@Funs it's very easy, I'm just a hypocrite and i don't pretend otherwise

@Funs it's very easy, I'm just a hypocrite and i don't pretend otherwise
86
#86
DM Servers
-23 Frags +

There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.

Eat what you want.

There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.

Eat what you want.
87
#87
-8 Frags +

every single person in this thread

https://www.liberaldictionary.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/baited-8344.jpg

every single person in this thread

[img]https://www.liberaldictionary.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/baited-8344.jpg[/img]
88
#88
21 Frags +

guys if u ever respond to any question u GoT bAiTed!!

guys if u ever respond to any question u GoT bAiTed!!
89
#89
2 Frags +

there will continue to be no ethical consumption if you guys don't take that first step to be the rational actors in the market

even if it doesn't change much, it sure is a lot more helpful than plotting to overthrow the US government with the power of MGE and ESEA badges.....

there will continue to be no ethical consumption if you guys don't take that first step to be the rational actors in the market

even if it doesn't change much, it sure is a lot more helpful than plotting to overthrow the US government with the power of MGE and ESEA badges.....
90
#90
-4 Frags +
FunsI thought it'd be intersting to ask this in a place like tftv. Yesterday I went to lecture by an activist known as Earthling Ed, who you perhaps haven't heard of, and had the chance to have an hour long conversation with him after it finished. It inspired me to ask the same questions he did here.
So, are you vegan, and if not, how can you justify it?

I'm not a vegan because I don't like dick in my ass

[quote=Funs]I thought it'd be intersting to ask this in a place like tftv. Yesterday I went to lecture by an activist known as Earthling Ed, who you perhaps haven't heard of, and had the chance to have an hour long conversation with him after it finished. It inspired me to ask the same questions he did here.
So, are you vegan, and if not, how can you justify it?[/quote]
I'm not a vegan because I don't like dick in my ass
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