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Can you justify why you're not vegan
posted in Off Topic
1
#1
0 Frags +

I thought it'd be intersting to ask this in a place like tftv. Yesterday I went to lecture by an activist known as Earthling Ed, who you perhaps haven't heard of, and had the chance to have an hour long conversation with him after it finished. It inspired me to ask the same questions he did here.
So, are you vegan, and if not, how can you justify it?

I thought it'd be intersting to ask this in a place like tftv. Yesterday I went to lecture by an activist known as Earthling Ed, who you perhaps haven't heard of, and had the chance to have an hour long conversation with him after it finished. It inspired me to ask the same questions he did here.
So, are you vegan, and if not, how can you justify it?
2
#2
20 Frags +

i enjoy the taste of meat but i understand the consequences of farming and how it can affect the climate

i enjoy the taste of meat but i understand the consequences of farming and how it can affect the climate
3
#3
4 Frags +

too much effort to be vegan but i try and limit how much meat I eat to 2-3 times a week

when I do eat meat now it's usually just chicken which I think isn't as bad for the environment, I stopped eating lamb/beef

too much effort to be vegan but i try and limit how much meat I eat to 2-3 times a week

when I do eat meat now it's usually just chicken which I think isn't as bad for the environment, I stopped eating lamb/beef
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#4
63 Frags +

Because capitalism is destroying the planet, not me eating cheese or having the occasional burger.

I haven't been on holiday for 5 years, because I can't afford to. No way am I punishing myself further by going vegan when the guy next door to me flies 18,000 miles to Australia and back for his holidays, releasing more carbon in 2 weeks than I have in the last year.

Unless the whole system changes we are all fucked, so until that happens I am going to enjoy the small pleasures my menial little life has to offer.

Because capitalism is destroying the planet, not me eating cheese or having the occasional burger.

I haven't been on holiday for 5 years, because I can't afford to. No way am I punishing myself further by going vegan when the guy next door to me flies 18,000 miles to Australia and back for his holidays, releasing more carbon in 2 weeks than I have in the last year.

Unless the whole system changes we are all fucked, so until that happens I am going to enjoy the small pleasures my menial little life has to offer.
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#5
8 Frags +

yeap im not vegan and i can easly justify it:
1) food expensive
2) dont have time to perapre food
3 dont have time to eat food
4) poor as a fck
i removed 5 becaus bad argument

yeap im not vegan and i can easly justify it:
1) food expensive
2) dont have time to perapre food
3 dont have time to eat food
4) poor as a fck
i removed 5 becaus bad argument
6
#6
-1 Frags +

edit:

Yes, determinism

edit:

Yes, determinism
7
#7
69 Frags +

I am not vegan and I won't justify it because there is simply nothing to justify. It is my choice.

I am not vegan and I won't justify it because there is simply nothing to justify. It is my choice.
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#8
4 Frags +

veganism is very different from just not eating meat

i went vegetatian in like march and it isnt that hard. if you dont plan your meals you are only going to eat carbs tho.

my reasoning for not going vegan is mostly to do with the fact that it’s simply more effort than i’m willing to put into a diet. i get the majority of my protein from eggs/synthetic protein sources, and i like dairy.

veganism is very different from just not eating meat

i went vegetatian in like march and it isnt that hard. if you dont plan your meals you are only going to eat carbs tho.

my reasoning for not going vegan is mostly to do with the fact that it’s simply more effort than i’m willing to put into a diet. i get the majority of my protein from eggs/synthetic protein sources, and i like dairy.
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#9
2 Frags +

im lazy

im lazy
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#10
-5 Frags +

is being lazy a valid justification?

is being lazy a valid justification?
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#11
-3 Frags +

The marginal change I personally will make by becoming vegan is effectively 0 and therefore there is no significant harm if I am not vegan. Other preferences I have will make a substantially greater difference.

The marginal change I personally will make by becoming vegan is effectively 0 and therefore there is no significant harm if I am not vegan. Other preferences I have will make a substantially greater difference.
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#12
53 Frags +

steak is peng

steak is peng
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#13
31 Frags +

why the fuck would you have to justify

why the fuck would you have to justify
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#14
0 Frags +

im selfish and don't care lol

im selfish and don't care lol
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#15
1 Frags +

putting cheese on stuff slaps

putting cheese on stuff slaps
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#16
-1 Frags +

I like meat too much to not eat it at all. That being said I have significantly decreased how often I eat meat.

I like meat too much to not eat it at all. That being said I have significantly decreased how often I eat meat.
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#17
6 Frags +

Yes indeed all my life choices are based on a totally logical system derived from a few axioms. I do not consult my gut for my choices but only this system which can provide an answer to every single doubt there is.

Yes indeed all my life choices are based on a totally logical system derived from a few axioms. I do not consult my gut for my choices but only this system which can provide an answer to every single doubt there is.
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#18
8 Frags +

Perhaps I should have been a bit more specific, although I appreciate all the replies. I’ll rephrase a bit:

Can you justify why you’re not vegan when in the modern day it’s been proven that a plant based diet is sufficient, and animals are bred, mistreated and killed for nothing more than how they taste?

For now I’m leaving out any scientific arguments such as animal derived products being used in labs, because truthfully I don’t have an answer to that one either.

Perhaps I should have been a bit more specific, although I appreciate all the replies. I’ll rephrase a bit:

Can you justify why you’re not vegan when in the modern day it’s been proven that a plant based diet is sufficient, and animals are bred, mistreated and killed for nothing more than how they taste?

For now I’m leaving out any scientific arguments such as animal derived products being used in labs, because truthfully I don’t have an answer to that one either.
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#19
6 Frags +

eating meat is more convenient/cheap, especially for someone like me who is a college student. Also meat just tastes better. Even my dining hall which has vegan options every day is always outnumbered in meals by non vegan options.

most people will forgo giving animals the same rights or care as a human being if it costs more, tastes worse, or is in any way more inconvenient in terms of what they eat

e: also if you care you can also go out of your way to find meat/fish products that are known to be raised more ethically (wild fish not farmed, farm animals that aren't loaded with steroids and crammed into tiny spaces etc etc

eating meat is more convenient/cheap, especially for someone like me who is a college student. Also meat just tastes better. Even my dining hall which has vegan options every day is always outnumbered in meals by non vegan options.

most people will forgo giving animals the same rights or care as a human being if it costs more, tastes worse, or is in any way more inconvenient in terms of what they eat

e: also if you care you can also go out of your way to find meat/fish products that are known to be raised more ethically (wild fish not farmed, farm animals that aren't loaded with steroids and crammed into tiny spaces etc etc
20
#20
-2 Frags +

some people don’t have control over what their parents buy for them to eat.

And they have to eat something.

That something is often a meat product.

some people don’t have control over what their parents buy for them to eat.

And they have to eat something.

That something is often a meat product.
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#21
18 Frags +
FunsCan you justify why you’re not vegan when in the modern day it’s been proven that a plant based diet is sufficient, and animals are bred, mistreated and killed for nothing more than how they taste?

Vegan harvesting and poisoning fields with highly toxic pesticides kills BILLIONS of insects/birds/other animals per hectare.
Those pesticides result in agonizing pain for those little creatures, way less humane way of killing than let's say hunting (just an example).

Also, when you say a vegan diet is sufficient, you forget to talk about vitamin b12 (or other) supplementation that caused a lot of ex-vegan that didn't take supplements to stop this diet.

[quote=Funs]
Can you justify why you’re not vegan when in the modern day it’s been proven that a plant based diet is sufficient, and animals are bred, mistreated and killed for nothing more than how they taste?
[/quote]

Vegan harvesting and poisoning fields with highly toxic pesticides kills BILLIONS of insects/birds/other animals per hectare.
Those pesticides result in agonizing pain for those little creatures, way less humane way of killing than let's say hunting (just an example).

Also, when you say a vegan diet is sufficient, you forget to talk about vitamin b12 (or other) supplementation that caused a lot of ex-vegan that didn't take supplements to stop this diet.
22
#22
4 Frags +
Opti_FunsCan you justify why you’re not vegan when in the modern day it’s been proven that a plant based diet is sufficient, and animals are bred, mistreated and killed for nothing more than how they taste?
Vegan harvesting and poisoning fields with highly toxic pesticides kills BILLIONS of insects/birds/other animals per hectare.
Those pesticides result in agonizing pain for those little creatures, way less humane way of killing than let's say hunting (just an example).

Also, when you say a vegan diet is sufficient, you forget to talk about vitamin b12 (or other) supplementation that caused a lot of ex-vegan that didn't take supplements to stop this diet.

exactly, and dont forget how much water/rainforest gets used just to grow soy. I can only respect vegans who are also Jainist/theravada buddhist tbh (and dont malnutrition their pets/children)

[quote=Opti_][quote=Funs]
Can you justify why you’re not vegan when in the modern day it’s been proven that a plant based diet is sufficient, and animals are bred, mistreated and killed for nothing more than how they taste?
[/quote]

Vegan harvesting and poisoning fields with highly toxic pesticides kills BILLIONS of insects/birds/other animals per hectare.
Those pesticides result in agonizing pain for those little creatures, way less humane way of killing than let's say hunting (just an example).

Also, when you say a vegan diet is sufficient, you forget to talk about vitamin b12 (or other) supplementation that caused a lot of ex-vegan that didn't take supplements to stop this diet.[/quote]
exactly, and dont forget how much water/rainforest gets used just to grow soy. I can only respect vegans who are also Jainist/theravada buddhist tbh (and dont malnutrition their pets/children)
23
#23
5 Frags +

im not GAY

im not GAY
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#24
1 Frags +
Funs animals are bred, mistreated and killed for nothing more than how they taste?

or you can just go to a local farm where you know animals are treated well, although i agree with you on the last point point, they are killed for what they taste but no a plant diet ain't enough imo to survive on the long term

[quote=Funs] animals are bred, mistreated and killed for nothing more than how they taste?
[/quote]

or you can just go to a local farm where you know animals are treated well, although i agree with you on the last point point, they are killed for what they taste but no a plant diet ain't enough imo to survive on the long term
25
#25
41 Frags +

Soy farming is one of the most destructive farming industries on the planet for wildlife and sentient life in general, but that fact is generally ignored. It is also one of the most in demand products currently going as the population of north eastern Asian continues to grow along with id wager 80% of vegan products contain some form of soy and soy solution.

The mistreatment of livestock has not stemmed from immoral behaviour or people simply wanting to cause pain to animals, it stems from the demand that humans have put on livestock farming which has caused malpractice. It is simply impossible to ethically farm livestock at the demand we are currently living with. Corporate grocers and big wig restaurant/dining company’s are highly sought after establishments by the general public, therefore causing an impossible demand to meet if the pace of farming is too slow.

If people actually want to make change and create sustainable farming there should be one goal and one goal only; eat seasonal based products and buy organic, local food.

The more people can get into a habit of supporting local aggregates and livestock and eating seasonal produce, the most you’re gonna see the big wig companies demand for livestock go down. It’s not just animal farming that’s a big problem.

Do I think that it will ever change? No. I think it’s too far gone and going back now will cause nothing short of an economical disaster. I hope vegans realize that their cause should be less about morality and more about local agriculture, but I fear it will never happen. I personally buy local and eat local; produce and livestock and restaurants/groceries who use local product, that’s where the big picture is at.

Soy farming is one of the most destructive farming industries on the planet for wildlife and sentient life in general, but that fact is generally ignored. It is also one of the most in demand products currently going as the population of north eastern Asian continues to grow along with id wager 80% of vegan products contain some form of soy and soy solution.

The mistreatment of livestock has not stemmed from immoral behaviour or people simply wanting to cause pain to animals, it stems from the demand that humans have put on livestock farming which has caused malpractice. It is simply impossible to ethically farm livestock at the demand we are currently living with. Corporate grocers and big wig restaurant/dining company’s are highly sought after establishments by the general public, therefore causing an impossible demand to meet if the pace of farming is too slow.

If people actually want to make change and create sustainable farming there should be one goal and one goal only; eat seasonal based products and buy organic, local food.

The more people can get into a habit of supporting local aggregates and livestock and eating seasonal produce, the most you’re gonna see the big wig companies demand for livestock go down. It’s not just animal farming that’s a big problem.

Do I think that it will ever change? No. I think it’s too far gone and going back now will cause nothing short of an economical disaster. I hope vegans realize that their cause should be less about morality and more about local agriculture, but I fear it will never happen. I personally buy local and eat local; produce and livestock and restaurants/groceries who use local product, that’s where the big picture is at.
26
#26
7 Frags +

veganism fucks up your gut flora and makes you age faster, the terrible state of the environment is an immutable fact of industrialization, meat tastes good and is a good source of nutrients, god grants us dominion over all the beasts, dishes with meat are a part of my culture, etc.

veganism fucks up your gut flora and makes you age faster, the terrible state of the environment is an immutable fact of industrialization, meat tastes good and is a good source of nutrients, god grants us dominion over all the beasts, dishes with meat are a part of my culture, etc.
27
#27
10 Frags +
Opti_FunsCan you justify why you’re not vegan when in the modern day it’s been proven that a plant based diet is sufficient, and animals are bred, mistreated and killed for nothing more than how they taste?
Vegan harvesting and poisoning fields with highly toxic pesticides kills BILLIONS of insects/birds/other animals per hectare.
Those pesticides result in agonizing pain for those little creatures, way less humane way of killing than let's say hunting (just an example).

Also, when you say a vegan diet is sufficient, you forget to talk about vitamin b12 (or other) supplementation that caused a lot of ex-vegan that didn't take supplements to stop this diet.

What do you think livestock eat up until they get slaughtered?

[quote=Opti_][quote=Funs]
Can you justify why you’re not vegan when in the modern day it’s been proven that a plant based diet is sufficient, and animals are bred, mistreated and killed for nothing more than how they taste?
[/quote]

Vegan harvesting and poisoning fields with highly toxic pesticides kills BILLIONS of insects/birds/other animals per hectare.
Those pesticides result in agonizing pain for those little creatures, way less humane way of killing than let's say hunting (just an example).

Also, when you say a vegan diet is sufficient, you forget to talk about vitamin b12 (or other) supplementation that caused a lot of ex-vegan that didn't take supplements to stop this diet.[/quote]

What do you think livestock eat up until they get slaughtered?
28
#28
1 Frags +

The fact humans don't use appendix just tells you you're build to eat more meat then vege

The fact humans don't use appendix just tells you you're build to eat more meat then vege
29
#29
1 Frags +
lucrativeSoy farming is one of the most destructive farming industries on the planet for wildlife and sentient life in general, but that fact is generally ignored. It is also one of the most in demand products currently going as the population of north eastern Asian continues to grow along with id wager 80% of vegan products contain some form of soy and soy solution.

The mistreatment of livestock has not stemmed from immoral behaviour or people simply wanting to cause pain to animals, it stems from the demand that humans have put on livestock farming which has caused malpractice. It is simply impossible to ethically farm livestock at the demand we are currently living with. Corporate grocers and big wig restaurant/dining company’s are highly sought after establishments by the general public, therefore causing an impossible demand to meet if the pace of farming is too slow.

If people actually want to make change and create sustainable farming there should be one goal and one goal only; eat seasonal based products and buy organic, local food.

The more people can get into a habit of supporting local aggregates and livestock and eating seasonal produce, the most you’re gonna see the big wig companies demand for livestock go down. It’s not just animal farming that’s a big problem.

Do I think that it will ever change? No. I think it’s too far gone and going back now cause nothing short of an economical disaster. I hope vegans realize that there cause should be less about morality and more about local agriculture, but I fear it will never happen. I personally buy local and eat local; produce and livestock and restaurants/groceries who use local product, that’s where the big picture is at.

If i'm ever out east i gotta see what chef Luc is cookin. Local food is great, we got a farmers market in saskatoon that has so much quality stuff for a completely fair price, often cheaper then the grocer. That said I still will buy a lot of store packaged stuff as well strictly based on convenience of access. As to why i'm not Vegan, I simply just don't believe that an individual will ever make enough of a change and there are too many people who would NEVER change for me to bother entertaining the idea.

[quote=lucrative]Soy farming is one of the most destructive farming industries on the planet for wildlife and sentient life in general, but that fact is generally ignored. It is also one of the most in demand products currently going as the population of north eastern Asian continues to grow along with id wager 80% of vegan products contain some form of soy and soy solution.

The mistreatment of livestock has not stemmed from immoral behaviour or people simply wanting to cause pain to animals, it stems from the demand that humans have put on livestock farming which has caused malpractice. It is simply impossible to ethically farm livestock at the demand we are currently living with. Corporate grocers and big wig restaurant/dining company’s are highly sought after establishments by the general public, therefore causing an impossible demand to meet if the pace of farming is too slow.

If people actually want to make change and create sustainable farming there should be one goal and one goal only; eat seasonal based products and buy organic, local food.

The more people can get into a habit of supporting local aggregates and livestock and eating seasonal produce, the most you’re gonna see the big wig companies demand for livestock go down. It’s not just animal farming that’s a big problem.

Do I think that it will ever change? No. I think it’s too far gone and going back now cause nothing short of an economical disaster. I hope vegans realize that there cause should be less about morality and more about local agriculture, but I fear it will never happen. I personally buy local and eat local; produce and livestock and restaurants/groceries who use local product, that’s where the big picture is at.[/quote]

If i'm ever out east i gotta see what chef Luc is cookin. Local food is great, we got a farmers market in saskatoon that has so much quality stuff for a completely fair price, often cheaper then the grocer. That said I still will buy a lot of store packaged stuff as well strictly based on convenience of access. As to why i'm not Vegan, I simply just don't believe that an individual will ever make enough of a change and there are too many people who would NEVER change for me to bother entertaining the idea.
30
#30
22 Frags +

I’m not gonna attempt to reply to everyone because that wasn’t the point, I was just interested in the replies. I will however say one thing that I learnt yesterday which I thought was interesting. It’s true what Lucrative said about soy farming, however, it turns out that the soy farming we’re talking about here is mainly that which produces feed for livestock in the meat industry. The soy farming for foods such as tofu is actually generally not part of the same system, and is in fact not even from South American mainly

I’m not gonna attempt to reply to everyone because that wasn’t the point, I was just interested in the replies. I will however say one thing that I learnt yesterday which I thought was interesting. It’s true what Lucrative said about soy farming, however, it turns out that the soy farming we’re talking about here is mainly that which produces feed for livestock in the meat industry. The soy farming for foods such as tofu is actually generally not part of the same system, and is in fact not even from South American mainly
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