ban wrap assassin too, and lowkey ban jag... (imo)

don't forget spoon

thank you for your attention to this matter

isn't there someone you forgot to ask?

https://i.imgur.com/zY9lYsu.jpeg

guys this is a serious post

Jokes aside, I feel like the majority of people want the weapon banned. What is the argument for keeping it unbanned? I have no rollers? Wow!

loch and quickies has been so fun to play against this past season.

losing 1 pipe and rollers isn't insignificant BUT
removing one of demoman's biggest weakness (range) while also making it a better dm class in a 1v1 (especially on LAN) significantly outweighs the downsides. the weapon was straight gate kept by itself for so long because it makes you want to farm long range pipes like an idiot (which isn't even bad somehow) but once you get over that hurdle the weapon is straight better on the class that's already the most impactful class that isn't medic.
The weapon also buffs hitting 100 damage across the map with a pipe which, gameplay wise, is the most obnoxious part of the class. The weapon also somehow makes quickies viable and enables a playstyle where you sit way out of range of every other class while also pressuring one shots on scouts from across the map. People complain about sniper incessantly and this shit is literally just projectile sniper class while also STILL being demoman.

if u ban the jag you would be doing engies a favor because the eureka effect is better #2TRUTHSANDLIE #connect takeba.game.nfoservers.com:27015;password yeahwoah

its probably just inertia. i dont think anecdotes are data but it definitely feels like more people want it banned than don't, but i think the plurality of people don't care strongly either way

possibly, but i am not so sure about that. why not put it to a poll? it's hardly rigorous but it'd be nice to see general opinion on this forum.

https://strawpoll.com/GPgVYeYppna

please

this poll has a flaw https://imgur.com/a/YnSKVeg

it's insane to me that you guys ALSO allow quickiebomb

hmm...you have some good reasons, but did you think about RGL's mission statement?

Nice to see the yearly ban loch thread up again. If you're curious, this was last year's poll result:
https://www.teamfortress.tv/post/1095581/ban-the-lochnload-next-szn

I wonder how opinions have changed in about a year?

we put local sniper main yosh onto demo armed with a 20 inch 360 and loch + quickies and he almost beat banny (xd)

My precious...
https://imgur.com/a/Z2zAJ4k

Fuck that gun but my demo carried me with it so idk

They're right though, the average person who browses tftv is significantly more cognisant of balance within 6's. Only people that care would even bother going on this website. If the poll was to be taken on the rgl website or the rgl discord, it could have a vastly different outcome; it doesn't have to be different and would likely be similar but there is a chance that the layman rgl player doesn't mind it, or doesn't care.

both of u should READ before u POST then u wont get DOWNFRAGGED and look like NOOBS.

anything past medlocks+gunboats is a mental disorder

I am once again asking people to stop using this image incorrectly.

More on topic - I have no idea what's up with RGL 6's specifically but not only are they historically much more conservative with regard to even asking about questions regarding banning unlocks compared to HL (not unbanning though!), they are even more reticent with either conducting or releasing survey results at all (or both).

Take a look at this page of all previous articles and ctrl +f "Survey Results". Starting from season 8 (2021 for reference) all but one season of HL is represented, and some times even the midseason! This has translated into direct action as well and isn't merely fluff; a few seasons ago loch became a problem during playoffs and grand finals. Directly afterward the next survey had a survey about the loch and before the next season even started it was banned. I seriously cannot think of a single instance in which the turnaround was that fast in 6's.

Regarding 6's, go back to that same page, look at "survey results" and see how many articles are about 6s seasons. You will only get 2 results. One was before season 14 (January 2024), the next was season 8 in 2022. Why is 6s, the face of tf2 competitive, seemingly treated as an afterthought compared to HL? I know historically this has been the case (see the whole "traditional 6s" fiasco and the RGL mission statement lol) but man this disparity is bad. I understand tf2 youtubers will make endless videos if an unlock gets banned but controversial opinion incoming: perhaps a community league should strive to serve its own playerbase above all else. There is something cosmically funny about the fact that the format that more closely resembles pubs is less beholden to the opinions of pubbers [who have no intention of playing competitive] than 6s does.

I will push back against this slightly; these are HL survey results about the loch once the aforementioned problematic season concluded. This was done across all divs iirc.

https://i.imgur.com/JtK2AVL.png

Only 15% don't really have an opinion and notably loch in HL was an extremely short-lived phenomenon that didn't even have enough time to trickle-down to other divs (I saw many many questions in RGL discord from main or below HL players about the ban). I would be extremely surprised if the % in 6's who do not have an opinion/don't care is substantially higher.

Edit: Here is a recent survey about unbanning loch; you can see (at the very least limited to people who actually respond to surveys lol) that proportion of no opinion is still around the same range.

https://i.imgur.com/XnduEpV.png

To me, hitting "nice" shots with the loch feels fake and unsatisfying. Its like the weapon plays the game for you. I want this shit banned so I won't be borderline throwing for not choosing it.

ive been of the opinion that loch should be banned since it started gaining traction in mid-late 2023. u can have super baity positioning in team fights and still do so much. some amount of risk has to be taken to deal a lot of damage (i use this argument for banning the ball as well) but the loch eliminates thats risk. part of what makes demo difficult is proper positioning to deal damage without catching yourself or baiting.

to comment on this, its widely known that rgl holds a meeting between each season involving invite players to discuss a variety topics ranging from upcoming events, map pools, and weapon bans. if i had to guess rgl is substituting polls with these meetings. an issue with this is that not every invite player attends these meetings (me xd), resulting in maybe like 8-10 total opinions in the discussion of weapon bans and once the discussion sways towards a weapon being banned b4nny points at the rgl mission statement that was written 3 owners ago.

back on topic... i truly believe rgl should just straight up ban loch without having to send out a poll or bring it up in the invite meeting, too much rioting has occurred.

At least euros aren’t scared to ban retarded weapons on the grounds of them being retarded without needing to deliberate for several seasons just to rationalize their decision.

Ah okay thank you for the clarification; ngl I have heard about the invite meetings before (iirc it's how the length of the season got shortened?) but I deadass just thought they were done with cause I expected some motion on stuff like the loch otherwise lol.

Why is invite letting a player who can barely place at lan dictate the whitelist? Should be reserved to lan finalists imo.

sorry math this isnt supposed to be a shot at you its a shot at the loch.

https://youtu.be/PX6m9HmZMns?si=_B6ya_72hq-Ktqsn

this shit happens to every player an innumerable amount of times per season

I genuinely wanted to rip my hair out when this happened. For the record, b4nny lawyer'ing this point was clever and technically right - but technically right is about the worst kind of right you can be. RGL needs an updated mission statement re: springrolls

If the fear is about people not answering the end of season surveys or whatever, they should just have a single issue poll. Make a loch-n-load ban poll with no other questions, have it open for RGL users for a few weeks or a month in the offseason, and post an announcement in the discord/website and tftv. It's easy to do and will provide a very clear answer before the next season starts

ban loch