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faceit tf2
91
#91
-27 Frags +
SolarLightAimIsADickThe only problem I have with the new FACEIT servers is that they limit client side settings. They force the updaterate/cmdrate to 66 and as a 128 tickrate server, this is always a bad idea; Just set the maximum updaterate/cmdrate to 128 and leave the other limiting cvars alone (sv_minrate, sv_maxrate, sv_minupdaterate, sv_mincmdrate, sv_client_min_interp_ratio, and sv_client_max_interp_ratio). They. enforce a minimum rate (or bandwidth) of 128 Kilobytes (or 1 Megabit), which is way too high! Can someone tell the server operators to remove these limits (by setting sv_minupdaterate and sv_minrate to 0)?
This is a misconception, these servers are not running at 128 tick. 128 tick actually causes several bugs in TF2, from what I remember.

You have a point. Still though they shouldn't be limiting clientside network settings (or in other words the player's network settings).

[quote=SolarLight][quote=AimIsADick]The only problem I have with the new FACEIT servers is that they limit client side settings. They force the updaterate/cmdrate to 66 and as a [i]128 tickrate[/i] server, this is always a bad idea; Just set the maximum updaterate/cmdrate to 128 and leave the other limiting cvars alone (sv_minrate, sv_maxrate, sv_minupdaterate, sv_mincmdrate, sv_client_min_interp_ratio, and sv_client_max_interp_ratio). They. enforce a minimum rate (or bandwidth) of 128 Kilobytes (or 1 Megabit), which is [i]way[/i] too high! Can someone tell the server operators to remove these limits (by setting sv_minupdaterate and sv_minrate to 0)?[/quote]

This is a misconception, these servers are not running at 128 tick. 128 tick actually causes several bugs in TF2, from what I remember.[/quote]

You have a point. Still though they shouldn't be limiting clientside network settings (or in other words the player's network settings).
92
#92
-34 Frags +
EntropyTFSolarLightAimIsADickDo not begin a technical argument with AimIsADick. Just ignore him before the essay and massive quote posts start rolling in.

So that's the reputation I gained on this forum…

[quote=EntropyTF][quote=SolarLight][quote=AimIsADick][/quote][/quote]
Do not begin a technical argument with AimIsADick. Just ignore him before the essay and massive quote posts start rolling in.[/quote]

So that's the reputation I gained on this forum…
93
#93
28 Frags +
AimIsADickEntropyTFSolarLightAimIsADick...

stop posting and lurk a bit dude

[quote=AimIsADick][quote=EntropyTF][quote=SolarLight][quote=AimIsADick][/quote][/quote]
...[/quote] [/quote]
stop posting and lurk a bit dude
94
#94
6 Frags +

I was about to complain about not being able to use accel but apparently there's a new version available if anyone else is having issues

I was about to complain about [url=https://i.imgur.com/RZuNhlv.png]not being able to use accel[/url] but apparently there's a [url=https://www.kovaak.com/mouse-acceleration/]new version[/url] available if anyone else is having issues
95
#95
-64 Frags +

i almost hope faceit tf2 fails completely. the culture shift and the complete attitude change that normal players have had about the game- and particularly about actually winning- over the past few days is fucking draining. it makes me not want to touch tf2 if every facet of the game now is competitive

this is not casual, it's not even well disguised as casual. it's meant to be competitive and to intentionally coax players for a competitive experience. faceit knows it has a captive audience and is using it to force competitive gaming down the throats of people who wish to not compete solely to enjoy tf2. everyone who has shilled it as the replacement for valve casual does so because they profit off the idea of the community becoming more competitive and therefore more involved (especially financially) in content.

everyone is now playing optimally, everyone is concerned about winning, everyone is concerned about trying their hardest, about ranking up, about competing. playing against good players isn't fun; most of us want to have something chill to do and not worry about our performance in a video game as we do in nearly every other aspect of our capitalist-driven life.

instead i get to see my dpm and my k/d easily accessible in their scoreboards as if they're logs.tf. i get to attempt to climb up the rankings so i can have even more of a soul sucking experience when i have to try even harder against better opponents.

i know everyone in tftv wants this game to be an esport. everything that makes tf2 a remotely good community comes from it not being a competitive game. i've never seen a non-toxic competitive gaming community.

to have what i and many of us have enjoyed about tf2 to be first stripped by the lack of support in the game (just to simply remove the fucking bots), and then to have that power vacuum hijacked by an esports organization and a minority culture who really, really wants this game to be as awful and competitive as all those other fancy games so that they can justify their mental power fantasies over mouse and keyboard is depressing.

i almost hope faceit tf2 fails completely. the culture shift and the complete attitude change that normal players have had about the game- and particularly about actually winning- over the past few days is fucking draining. it makes me not want to touch tf2 if every facet of the game now is competitive

this is not casual, it's not even well disguised as casual. it's meant to be competitive and to intentionally coax players for a competitive experience. faceit knows it has a captive audience and is using it to force competitive gaming down the throats of people who wish to not compete solely to enjoy tf2. everyone who has shilled it as the replacement for valve casual does so because they profit off the idea of the community becoming more competitive and therefore more involved (especially financially) in content.

everyone is now playing optimally, everyone is concerned about winning, everyone is concerned about trying their hardest, about ranking up, about competing. playing against good players isn't fun; most of us want to have something chill to do and not worry about our performance in a video game as we do in nearly every other aspect of our capitalist-driven life.

instead i get to see my dpm and my k/d easily accessible in their scoreboards as if they're logs.tf. i get to attempt to climb up the rankings so i can have even more of a soul sucking experience when i have to try even harder against better opponents.

i know everyone in tftv wants this game to be an esport. everything that makes tf2 a remotely good community comes from it not being a competitive game. i've never seen a non-toxic competitive gaming community.

to have what i and many of us have enjoyed about tf2 to be first stripped by the lack of support in the game (just to simply remove the fucking bots), and then to have that power vacuum hijacked by an esports organization and a minority culture who really, really wants this game to be as awful and competitive as all those other fancy games so that they can justify their mental power fantasies over mouse and keyboard is depressing.
96
#96
Twitch Prime
40 Frags +

just dont play it lo l

just dont play it lo l
97
#97
35 Frags +

chill its just casual

chill its just casual
98
#98
-21 Frags +
zillychill its just casual

it really isn't. a ranked stopwatch payload match is entirely different and incentivizes the player to play in an entirely different way than just your run of the mill valve casual game.

[quote=zilly]chill its just casual[/quote]

it really isn't. a ranked stopwatch payload match is entirely different and incentivizes the player to play in an entirely different way than just your run of the mill valve casual game.
99
#99
16 Frags +
silence_bottom

what the fuck

[quote=silence_bottom]
[/quote]
what the fuck
100
#100
41 Frags +

the year is 20XX:

silence_bottomeveryone is now playing optimally, everyone is concerned about winning, everyone is concerned about trying their hardest, about ranking up, about competing.
the year is 20XX:
[quote=silence_bottom]everyone is now playing optimally, everyone is concerned about winning, everyone is concerned about trying their hardest, about ranking up, about competing.[/quote]
101
#101
38 Frags +

https://i.imgflip.com/52mapf.jpg

[img]https://i.imgflip.com/52mapf.jpg[/img]
102
#102
43 Frags +
silence_bottomlol

https://i.imgur.com/nIxMy4N.png

[quote=silence_bottom]lol[/quote]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/nIxMy4N.png[/img]
103
#103
2 Frags +
Discordhttps://i.imgflip.com/52mapf.jpg

please dont use the word groom please

[quote=Discord][img]https://i.imgflip.com/52mapf.jpg[/img][/quote]
please dont use the word groom please
104
#104
43 Frags +

using the word groom to describe giving casual players the option to make a faceit account and play 12v12 tf2 does not empower your point, just makes you seem kind of disconnected

i don't disagree that the matchmaking has been relatively sweaty, but iirc isn't there already/going to be elo? if enough casual players play through the client then each server will have its own skill-level. if anything you can just blame valve for completely abandoning the game. and if you're really vindictive you can hold onto hope that faceit matchmaking is popular enough to force valve's hand in doing literally anything to support the community

using the word groom to describe giving casual players the option to make a faceit account and play 12v12 tf2 does not empower your point, just makes you seem kind of disconnected

i don't disagree that the matchmaking has been relatively sweaty, but iirc isn't there already/going to be elo? if enough casual players play through the client then each server will have its own skill-level. if anything you can just blame valve for completely abandoning the game. and if you're really vindictive you can hold onto hope that faceit matchmaking is popular enough to force valve's hand in doing literally anything to support the community
105
#105
-3 Frags +
zillychill its just casual

thats crazy bro u should take ur own advice

[quote=zilly]chill its just casual[/quote]
thats crazy bro u should take ur own advice
106
#106
4 Frags +

tears?

tears?
107
#107
18 Frags +

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/392361292310118403/823366358737223720/unknown.png

[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/392361292310118403/823366358737223720/unknown.png[/img]
108
#108
-15 Frags +
clckwrkusing the word groom to describe giving casual players the option to make a faceit account and play 12v12 tf2 does not empower your point, just makes you seem kind of disconnected

i don't disagree that the matchmaking has been relatively sweaty, but iirc isn't there already/going to be elo? if enough casual players play through the client then each server will have its own skill-level. if anything you can just blame valve for completely abandoning the game. and if you're really vindictive you can hold onto hope that faceit matchmaking is popular enough to force valve's hand in doing literally anything to support the community

you're right that it was poor word choice, and i do hold valve more accountable for this than faceit; they're just seeing niche to exploit.

[quote=clckwrk]using the word groom to describe giving casual players the option to make a faceit account and play 12v12 tf2 does not empower your point, just makes you seem kind of disconnected

i don't disagree that the matchmaking has been relatively sweaty, but iirc isn't there already/going to be elo? if enough casual players play through the client then each server will have its own skill-level. if anything you can just blame valve for completely abandoning the game. and if you're really vindictive you can hold onto hope that faceit matchmaking is popular enough to force valve's hand in doing literally anything to support the community[/quote]

you're right that it was poor word choice, and i do hold valve more accountable for this than faceit; they're just seeing niche to exploit.
109
#109
14 Frags +
silence_bottomi've never seen a non-toxic competitive gaming community..

the community that mass harassed a 14 yo on twitter isn't already considered toxic apparently

[quote=silence_bottom]i've never seen a non-toxic competitive gaming community..[/quote]

the community that mass harassed a 14 yo on twitter isn't already considered toxic apparently
110
#110
8 Frags +

I like faceit because it encouraged all my friends to play pubs again

I'm guilty of this, but I think if they leave 4+ stacking as it is, it will hemorrhage the 'chill' player base and kill faceit. They said that there's MMR but can a team of 6 comp-level players stacking really be balanced unless they're forced to play with 6 bots?

I like faceit because it encouraged all my friends to play pubs again

I'm guilty of this, but I think if they leave 4+ stacking as it is, it will hemorrhage the 'chill' player base and kill faceit. They said that there's MMR but can a team of 6 comp-level players stacking really be balanced unless they're forced to play with 6 bots?
111
#111
-4 Frags +
wishI like faceit because it encouraged all my friends to play pubs again

I'm guilty of this, but I think if they leave 4+ stacking as it is, it will hemorrhage the 'chill' player base and kill faceit. They said that there's MMR but can a team of 6 comp-level players stacking really be balanced unless they're forced to play with 6 bots?

I personally believe that the main reason for why 4+ stacks are able to be detrimental to the chill playerbase would be because of purely how hard they are trying. I've been consistently playing with 4+ stacks and I still lose a fair amount of games because my stacks won't be trying hard to win at all. If we kept it chill while stacking, the pubs do end up more balanced. There is still a large amount of unbalanced games however, where some sort of SBMM system will be needed, however I don't fully see 4+ stacks as the problem, just how hard people are trying.

All in all, stacks are fine, sweating hard kind of isn't. It is supposed to be casual after all.

[quote=wish]I like faceit because it encouraged all my friends to play pubs again

I'm guilty of this, but I think if they leave 4+ stacking as it is, it will hemorrhage the 'chill' player base and kill faceit. They said that there's MMR but can a team of 6 comp-level players stacking really be balanced unless they're forced to play with 6 bots?[/quote]
I personally believe that the main reason for why 4+ stacks are able to be detrimental to the chill playerbase would be because of purely how hard they are trying. I've been consistently playing with 4+ stacks and I still lose a fair amount of games because my stacks won't be trying hard to win at all. If we kept it chill while stacking, the pubs do end up more balanced. There is still a large amount of unbalanced games however, where some sort of SBMM system will be needed, however I don't fully see 4+ stacks as the problem, just how hard people are trying.

All in all, stacks are fine, sweating hard kind of isn't. It is supposed to be casual after all.
112
#112
11 Frags +

People this will get balanced the more it's played, skill levels will plateau as they naturally do. In any other game where there is match making this is a thing when ELO is introduced initially. You start off on even with everyone else and then slowly but surely you get placed in the level where you will feel comfortable.

I agree with Clockwork that this might actually get Valve to look at their own Casual and Competetive modes and take notes from Faceit, even if that means we have to play TF2 with an external AC program like they do.

All in all this is a good opurtunity for the community and people are treating it like it's the final product on day one and trying to make predictions that are based on nothing more than "Oh but I played 1 shitty lobby and it was stacked" yeah every game has those.

People this will get balanced the more it's played, skill levels will plateau as they naturally do. In any other game where there is match making this is a thing when ELO is introduced initially. You start off on even with everyone else and then slowly but surely you get placed in the level where you will feel comfortable.

I agree with Clockwork that this might actually get Valve to look at their own Casual and Competetive modes and take notes from Faceit, even if that means we have to play TF2 with an external AC program like they do.

All in all this is a good opurtunity for the community and people are treating it like it's the final product on day one and trying to make predictions that are based on nothing more than "Oh but I played 1 shitty lobby and it was stacked" yeah every game has those.
113
#113
2 Frags +

It's just gone public, with how many new players there are matches cannot be balanced, simply because the system doesn't yet know how good they are. trueskill.org estimates it'd take 100+ matches to have a good idea of someone's rating for 12v12, and while you could tweak that a bit (if 12 pubbers lose to 11 pubbers and Karppi, he was clearly more impactful) it still takes a long time to accurately place people.

It's just gone public, with how many new players there are matches [i]cannot[/i] be balanced, simply because the system doesn't yet know how good they are. [url=https://trueskill.org/#rating-the-model-for-skill]trueskill.org[/url] estimates it'd take 100+ matches to have a good idea of someone's rating for 12v12, and while you could tweak that a bit (if 12 pubbers lose to 11 pubbers and Karppi, he was clearly more impactful) it still takes a long time to accurately place people.
114
#114
21 Frags +

Faceit is literally the best thing to happen to this game in a long time and if you disagree you fail to see the greater picture

Faceit is literally the best thing to happen to this game in a long time and if you disagree you fail to see the greater picture
115
#115
22 Frags +

people crying about da pubs being sweaty have no skill. the tryhard pubbers still suck and if u bump into a tryhard stack of actually good players then who cares that u get 1 less point on the ladder from an L

grow up.

people crying about da pubs being sweaty have no skill. the tryhard pubbers still suck and if u bump into a tryhard stack of actually good players then who cares that u get 1 less point on the ladder from an L

grow up.
116
#116
-5 Frags +

'chill it's just casual'

*proceeds to no life ladder*

'chill it's just casual'

*proceeds to no life ladder*
117
#117
8 Frags +

these are a lot of fun i play demo and i have like 3 medics tanking and ubering me

these are a lot of fun i play demo and i have like 3 medics tanking and ubering me
118
#118
5 Frags +

yeah, faceit is fun i had my reservations with it but honestly its fun. also, demo kritz is too funny on faceit

yeah, faceit is fun i had my reservations with it but honestly its fun. also, demo kritz is too funny on faceit
119
#119
-7 Frags +

This has been probably stated already but I feel like the ladder system isn't well thought out.

You get 9 points for losing and 10 for winning, and that's it whatever you did in the match means nothing.

This means that the best way to perform in the ladder is to roll the enemy team with 6 men stacks and spawncamp and much as possible, while also only selecting the shortest possible maps. Funnily enough getting rolled/spawncamped is also the second best thing to do for the same reason: To get the most points in the least amount of time.

You could make the points gained for laddering to be directly calculated from your actual in-game points. This has the issue of it potentially being possible to exploit the system to farm a ton of points (like a guy using your teleport through the whole game) or just healing a scout with the basher at spawn the whole game or whatever.

I think the best would be a complex formula that accounts what classes you played, what you did with them (kills, assists, deaths, caps, heals, etc) and many other complex elements like heal distribution, dpm, medic kills, etc. This way it doesn't punish you for getting 0 kills just because you were a medic. With a small multiplier if you won the match (like 1.1x)

This however could cause the opposite issue and make it so the best way to play is to pick the longest maps (like dustbowl) and basically farm the other team but letting them cap until last to get as many points as possible. However if the amount of points that you get per minute is quite consistent then it wont matter much as the only time you will lose would be the time between matches, contrary to the current system where if you play a full 6-6 dustbowl match while other people play sunshine they can easily get like 10 matches done if they roll all of them while you get 1 match done

There could be checks to prevent foul play, however those can be too complicated to get right so imo the best solution is to allow players to report people doing this, then Faceit could see the demo to validate the report, ban the guy (or just remove them from the ladder and reallocate the prizes) and give some reward to whoever reported it.

This has been probably stated already but I feel like the ladder system isn't well thought out.

You get 9 points for losing and 10 for winning, and that's it whatever you did in the match means nothing.

This means that the best way to perform in the ladder is to roll the enemy team with 6 men stacks and spawncamp and much as possible, while also only selecting the shortest possible maps. Funnily enough getting rolled/spawncamped is also the second best thing to do for the same reason: To get the most points in the least amount of time.

You could make the points gained for laddering to be directly calculated from your actual in-game points. This has the issue of it potentially being possible to exploit the system to farm a ton of points (like a guy using your teleport through the whole game) or just healing a scout with the basher at spawn the whole game or whatever.

I think the best would be a complex formula that accounts what classes you played, what you did with them (kills, assists, deaths, caps, heals, etc) and many other complex elements like heal distribution, dpm, medic kills, etc. This way it doesn't punish you for getting 0 kills just because you were a medic. With a small multiplier if you won the match (like 1.1x)

This however could cause the opposite issue and make it so the best way to play is to pick the longest maps (like dustbowl) and basically farm the other team but letting them cap until last to get as many points as possible. However if the amount of points that you get per minute is quite consistent then it wont matter much as the only time you will lose would be the time between matches, contrary to the current system where if you play a full 6-6 dustbowl match while other people play sunshine they can easily get like 10 matches done if they roll all of them while you get 1 match done

There could be checks to prevent foul play, however those can be too complicated to get right so imo the best solution is to allow players to report people doing this, then Faceit could see the demo to validate the report, ban the guy (or just remove them from the ladder and reallocate the prizes) and give some reward to whoever reported it.
120
#120
10 Frags +

chill the fuck out the point system isnt a race LMFAO

chill the fuck out the point system isnt a race LMFAO
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