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ETF2L Ban Policy
1
#1
0 Frags +

http://etf2l.org/2020/02/22/saturday-evening-bans-and-staff-changes/

https://i.imgur.com/hZ94SJW.png

I don't know this person, I don't know what he said and I wouldn't agree with whatever he said but this is a beyond ridiculous decision I really can't comprehend. obviously "showing extreme disrespect" can be very offensive for the admins but handing out one of the longest bans ETF2L has ever given is not proportionate.

a caught VAC banned cheater gets banned for 1 year and then gets welcome back like nothing happened, this person says offensive things and gets banned for 5 years?

I hope ETF2L can clarify why they think banning someone for 5 years for writing mean words on their website deserves to be banned from competing for half a decade.

http://etf2l.org/2020/02/22/saturday-evening-bans-and-staff-changes/
[img]https://i.imgur.com/hZ94SJW.png[/img]

I don't know this person, I don't know what he said and I wouldn't agree with whatever he said but this is a beyond ridiculous decision I really can't comprehend. obviously "showing extreme disrespect" can be very offensive for the admins but handing out one of the longest bans ETF2L has ever given is not proportionate.

a caught VAC banned cheater gets banned for 1 year and then gets welcome back like nothing happened, this person says offensive things and gets banned for 5 years?

I hope ETF2L can clarify why they think banning someone for 5 years for writing mean words on their website deserves to be banned from competing for half a decade.
2
#2
27 Frags +

yeah this should be like the same ban length as flaming and stuff, obviously its a horrible thing to do but it shouldnt be like 5 VAC bans in a row as punishment

yeah this should be like the same ban length as flaming and stuff, obviously its a horrible thing to do but it shouldnt be like 5 VAC bans in a row as punishment
3
#3
TFNew
18 Frags +

I of course don't condone what Little Nyar or Houston did nor do I disagree with the bans since I don't know the context but it would be nice if some more details would be shared to explain why Little Nyar's offensive comments warrant a 5 year ban and Houston's inappropriate actions around a minor only get them banned for 6 months.

I of course don't condone what Little Nyar or Houston did nor do I disagree with the bans since I don't know the context but it would be nice if some more details would be shared to explain why Little Nyar's offensive comments warrant a 5 year ban and Houston's inappropriate actions around a minor only get them banned for 6 months.
4
#4
44 Frags +

Nonces should not get 6 months they should get the noose

Nonces should not get 6 months they should get the noose
5
#5
38 Frags +

Just change cheating bans to be 5 years

ETF2L totally justified in banning someone for celebrating an admins death

Just change cheating bans to be 5 years

ETF2L totally justified in banning someone for celebrating an admins death
6
#6
39 Frags +

The context. It's clearly a child, no way is this proportional. Kids develop empathy as they age. Did any admin have a chat with him about his actions? He immediately showed remorse, the best thing would be to convey to him why his words were hurtful, not perma ban him with no chance of redemption.

[url=https://imgur.com/2w5OdvO?r]The context[/url]. It's clearly a child, no way is this proportional. Kids develop empathy as they age. Did any admin have a chat with him about his actions? He immediately showed remorse, the best thing would be to convey to him why his words were hurtful, not perma ban him with no chance of redemption.
7
#7
28 Frags +

If saying mean words can warrant a 5-year ban then so should being a nonce or a cheater.

If saying mean words can warrant a 5-year ban then so should being a nonce or a cheater.
8
#8
2 Frags +

I agree that this punishment is too hard (assuming the context given by hush was all that happened).
I can understand that this case was probably pretty severe for the admins since they've been colleagues and good friends with Jan and it's absolutely disgusting using this as a reason to "celebrate" but a 5 year long ban with no warnings or so is somewhat out of proportion compared to the punishment people get for cheating or saying all sorts of very nasty and disgraceful stuff.

I agree that this punishment is too hard (assuming the context given by hush was all that happened).
I can understand that this case was probably pretty severe for the admins since they've been colleagues and good friends with Jan and it's absolutely disgusting using this as a reason to "celebrate" but a 5 year long ban with no warnings or so is somewhat out of proportion compared to the punishment people get for cheating or saying all sorts of very nasty and disgraceful stuff.
9
#9
3 Frags +

I feel like what Little Nyar said was definitely out of order and shouldn't go unpunished but 5 years? Kid could still be young and made only one stupid comment, if he feels sorry about it I dont see a reason to keep him out of the league for 5 times longer than a cheater.

In cases like these you should be able to redeem yourself somehow and be put onto like a "trial" period where admins pay special attention to you and just ban you for life if you continue shitty conduct like this.

I feel like what Little Nyar said was definitely out of order and shouldn't go unpunished but 5 years? Kid could still be young and made only one stupid comment, if he feels sorry about it I dont see a reason to keep him out of the league for 5 times longer than a cheater.

In cases like these you should be able to redeem yourself somehow and be put onto like a "trial" period where admins pay special attention to you and just ban you for life if you continue shitty conduct like this.
10
#10
19 Frags +

On the other hand why is a VAC ban not a permaban? IMHO i cant think of a bigger disrespect to your fellow players and the league than cheating.

On the other hand why is a VAC ban not a permaban? IMHO i cant think of a bigger disrespect to your fellow players and the league than cheating.
11
#11
2 Frags +

clear admin abuse

shame on both parties

clear admin abuse

shame on both parties
12
#12
2 Frags +

Also: if the messages were sent in any discord that has nothing to do with ETF2L, Nyar shouldn't be banned. It's not ETF2Ls place to monitor whatever their players say or think about certain topics, ESPECIALLY when it comes to no names that just play in Low/mid, if this was a prem player that was known amongst the community, then I can see how you could justify handing out a ban, but with a nobody like this? Why even bother?

Also: if the messages were sent in any discord that has nothing to do with ETF2L, Nyar shouldn't be banned. It's not ETF2Ls place to monitor whatever their players say or think about certain topics, ESPECIALLY when it comes to no names that just play in Low/mid, if this was a prem player that was known amongst the community, then I can see how you could justify handing out a ban, but with a nobody like this? Why even bother?
13
#13
3 Frags +

What's screenshot abuse

What's screenshot abuse
14
#14
-7 Frags +
zxpWhat's screenshot abuse

posted memes as status and results screenshots

[quote=zxp]What's screenshot abuse[/quote]
posted memes as status and results screenshots
15
#15
TFNew
9 Frags +
zxpWhat's screenshot abuse

I would assume it means tampering with status/scoreboard screenshots in a malicious way when submitting results, however when I asked the individual about it he claimed he just submitted a funny meme image

[quote=zxp]What's screenshot abuse[/quote]
I would assume it means tampering with status/scoreboard screenshots in a malicious way when submitting results, however when I asked the individual about it he claimed he just submitted a funny meme image
16
#16
56 Frags +

u can cheat and diddle 3 kids and get half this guys ban in etf2l

u can cheat and diddle 3 kids and get half this guys ban in etf2l
17
#17
-26 Frags +

He shouldn't be banned at all, this is clearly a personal issue. Nobody would care if it wasn't an etf2l admin.

That being said etf2l staff dishing out revenge bans is hardly surprising.

He shouldn't be banned at all, this is clearly a personal issue. Nobody would care if it wasn't an etf2l admin.

That being said etf2l staff dishing out revenge bans is hardly surprising.
18
#18
7 Frags +
Air_u can cheat and diddle 3 kids and get half this guys ban in etf2l

"Inappropriate behavior around a minor" SIX MONTHS BAN

I don't condone speaking ill of the dead, but 5 years, yeah doesn't seem proportional

[quote=Air_]u can cheat and diddle 3 kids and get half this guys ban in etf2l[/quote]

"Inappropriate behavior around a minor" [b]SIX MONTHS BAN[/b]

I don't condone speaking ill of the dead, but 5 years, yeah doesn't seem proportional
19
#19
6 Frags +

don’t care tbh, get fucked dickhead

don’t care tbh, get fucked dickhead
20
#20
-5 Frags +

Meh

Meh
21
#21
-5 Frags +

yikes I guess I'm worse than a nonce for smurfing

yikes I guess I'm worse than a nonce for smurfing
22
#22
20 Frags +

also fuck off jediflamaster nobody cares you got banned for 1000 years sewer rat

also fuck off jediflamaster nobody cares you got banned for 1000 years sewer rat
23
#23
24 Frags +

its a grill btw
i feel this as my duty to report to teamfortress television forums

its a grill btw
i feel this as my duty to report to teamfortress television forums
24
#24
43 Frags +
jnkiits a grill btw
i feel this as my duty to report to teamfortress television forums

increase to perma

[quote=jnki]its a grill btw
i feel this as my duty to report to teamfortress television forums[/quote]
increase to perma
25
#25
2 Frags +

Reasonable ban. People fuck up sometimes and should be kicked from a community for it. Age, mental state, irl problems etc. None are an excuse. Some attitudes don't belong in some communities. The fact it's only 5 years and isn't an irreversible perma ban is already more than reasonable imo.

Look at it from another point of view. If someone was to heavily insult a dead friend/family member, would you want to keep them around? Would you forgive them? Would you never talk to them again? What would you do?

Some other things should be considered equally awful. Like being a paedophile. However, a lot of the behaviors nonces get banned for are not for kiddy diddling, but just for sending one out of order message to a minor.

I really respect the protection that underage people are getting online from leagues now. Often they don't know any better and need the help to stay safe. But always remember, it's a ban in an online game. Not a real world punishment. The severity of a ban should be closely related to things that attack the league and players directly through the league, since that is what they control. Not based on things that happen outside the leagues power.

I know it would be nice to live in a perfect world where these behaviors are nonexistant, or the league would ban and remove all of these individuals from the community, but that is not possible without other problems. The first isn't possible, and the second would mean the league is exercising authority where it does not belong, which is equally as bad, if not worse than banning all these people permanently.

Reasonable ban. People fuck up sometimes and should be kicked from a community for it. Age, mental state, irl problems etc. None are an excuse. Some attitudes don't belong in some communities. The fact it's only 5 years and isn't an irreversible perma ban is already more than reasonable imo.

Look at it from another point of view. If someone was to heavily insult a dead friend/family member, would you want to keep them around? Would you forgive them? Would you never talk to them again? What would you do?

Some other things should be considered equally awful. Like being a paedophile. However, a lot of the behaviors nonces get banned for are not for kiddy diddling, but just for sending one out of order message to a minor.

I really respect the protection that underage people are getting online from leagues now. Often they don't know any better and need the help to stay safe. But always remember, it's a ban in an online game. Not a real world punishment. The severity of a ban should be closely related to things that attack the league and players directly through the league, since that is what they control. Not based on things that happen outside the leagues power.

I know it would be nice to live in a perfect world where these behaviors are nonexistant, or the league would ban and remove all of these individuals from the community, but that is not possible without other problems. The first isn't possible, and the second would mean the league is exercising authority where it does not belong, which is equally as bad, if not worse than banning all these people permanently.
26
#26
-16 Frags +

incels rose up

incels rose up
27
#27
-12 Frags +

Imagine if someone celebrated the death of a loved one of yours, how would you feel? I agree with doughy. Ban is fair.

Imagine if someone celebrated the death of a loved one of yours, how would you feel? I agree with doughy. Ban is fair.
28
#28
0 Frags +

I mean people celebrate celebrities dying all the time, and others get pissed but ultimately nothing happens to them. it's kind of a double standard to punish one and not the other.

I mean people celebrate celebrities dying all the time, and others get pissed but ultimately nothing happens to them. it's kind of a double standard to punish one and not the other.
29
#29
9 Frags +
Doughy

Yah. Personally for cheating I think 1 year is a bit lax as well. I mean if u install aimbot/walls that should be a 1 year ban in itself. If you actually use it, or even use it in an official game it should be way longer than 1 year

reakoI mean people celebrate celebrities dying all the time, and people get pissed but ultimately they dont care. it's kind of a double standard to punish one and not the other.

Celebreties and a passionate etf2l admin who the rest of the staff probably knew quite well is a bit of a difference isn't it?

[quote=Doughy][/quote]
Yah. Personally for cheating I think 1 year is a bit lax as well. I mean if u install aimbot/walls that should be a 1 year ban in itself. If you actually use it, or even use it in an official game it should be way longer than 1 year
[quote=reako]I mean people celebrate celebrities dying all the time, and people get pissed but ultimately they dont care. it's kind of a double standard to punish one and not the other.[/quote]
Celebreties and a passionate etf2l admin who the rest of the staff probably knew quite well is a bit of a difference isn't it?
30
#30
37 Frags +

5 years is a decade in tf2 years. it's very possible there won't even be a comp scene after 5 years. if comp tf2 is a staple of your life, like it us for many of us, severing you from it is no light punishment. banning someone for 5 years because they said "x is dead *fortnight dance music*" is not even close to relative.

if someone was to say the same about a loved one then I would be upset, maybe very upset. I would disassociate from them especially if they really meant it and showed no remorse. but I definitely would not try to get this person fired from their job or kicked off their soccer team.

5 years is a decade in tf2 years. it's very possible there won't even be a comp scene after 5 years. if comp tf2 is a staple of your life, like it us for many of us, severing you from it is no light punishment. banning someone for 5 years because they said "x is dead *fortnight dance music*" is not even close to relative.

if someone was to say the same about a loved one then I would be upset, maybe very upset. I would disassociate from them especially if they really meant it and showed no remorse. but I definitely would not try to get this person fired from their job or kicked off their soccer team.
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