Upvote Upvoted 53 Downvote Downvoted
1 2 3 4 5 6
Remove Iron Bomber from whitelist
31
#31
11 Frags +

ban 5 ping

ban 5 ping
32
#32
-23 Frags +

I made quick strawpoll and asked few prem/div 1 demos what they would like to use.
From 10 demos i asked 75% ppl wanted to use iron bomber (posted here the link so ppl from thread could actually vote my b lol)

didnt msg mak cuz its pretty obvs he wants to use stock

I made quick strawpoll and asked few prem/div 1 demos what they would like to use.
From 10 demos i asked 75% ppl wanted to use iron bomber (posted here the link so ppl from thread could actually vote my b lol)

didnt msg mak cuz its pretty obvs he wants to use stock
33
#33
13 Frags +
LUKASTANKif you wanna use iron bomber just use it, if you wanna use stock use stock. If you choose iron bomber i guess you have higher % hitting a pipe, but if you choose stock you get more spam thats it pros/cons of both weapons.

i dont see one of the listed stats of the weapon being that ur pipes are 2x bigger so no thats not the pros and cons

LUKASTANKI would say 90% ppl are using iron bomber over stock pipes so why would you want to ban it :D

cool and 100% of engis would use wrangler if it was unbanned. how is this an argument to not ban something?

[quote=LUKASTANK]if you wanna use iron bomber just use it, if you wanna use stock use stock. If you choose iron bomber i guess you have higher % hitting a pipe, but if you choose stock you get more spam thats it pros/cons of both weapons. [/quote]
i dont see one of the listed stats of the weapon being that ur pipes are 2x bigger so no thats not the pros and cons
[quote=LUKASTANK]I would say 90% ppl are using iron bomber over stock pipes so why would you want to ban it :D [/quote] cool and 100% of engis would use wrangler if it was unbanned. how is this an argument to not ban something?
34
#34
19 Frags +

Until it gets banned I'm gonna keep using it lol not giving up the advantage just because I think it should be removed, but it's objectively stupid in its current state.

Until it gets banned I'm gonna keep using it lol not giving up the advantage just because I think it should be removed, but it's objectively stupid in its current state.
35
#35
-18 Frags +
MakI also think people think too simplistically about unlocks, especially the straight upgrade argument. In reality unlocks can either be strong or weak and healthy for the game or unhealthy for the game. The way in which Iron Bomber is strong is stupid in comparison to something like Gunboats or Xbow, don't try to do the literal brainlet tier argument of "we should ban everything that is better than stock:DDD" lol.

wasnt there a thread by soldier mains that were mad about winger being kinda op on scout? you can literally pull out winger and dodge every rocket like its the same thing you want to point here with iron bomber

[quote=Mak]I also think people think too simplistically about unlocks, especially the straight upgrade argument. In reality unlocks can either be strong or weak and healthy for the game or unhealthy for the game. The way in which Iron Bomber is strong is stupid in comparison to something like Gunboats or Xbow, don't try to do the literal brainlet tier argument of "we should ban everything that is better than stock:DDD" lol.[/quote]

wasnt there a thread by soldier mains that were mad about winger being kinda op on scout? you can literally pull out winger and dodge every rocket like its the same thing you want to point here with iron bomber
36
#36
23 Frags +

Just cause 1 thing is stupid doesn't mean the other thing isn't also, if it were up to me I'd ban the Winger too brother

Just cause 1 thing is stupid doesn't mean the other thing isn't also, if it were up to me I'd ban the Winger too brother
37
#37
22 Frags +

weapons should be banned if they're too strong or break the flow of the game. iron bomber is neither. scout mains stay mad

weapons should be banned if they're too strong or break the flow of the game. iron bomber is neither. scout mains stay mad
38
#38
-12 Frags +
MakUntil it gets banned I'm gonna keep using it lol not giving up the advantage just because I think it should be removed, but it's objectively stupid in its current state.

if you have that opportunity to use as you say "better/op weapon" why dont you use it aswell, seen you in many season use stock and now you cry

[quote=Mak]Until it gets banned I'm gonna keep using it lol not giving up the advantage just because I think it should be removed, but it's objectively stupid in its current state.[/quote]

if you have that opportunity to use as you say "better/op weapon" why dont you use it aswell, seen you in many season use stock and now you cry
39
#39
18 Frags +
LUKASTANKif you have that opportunity to use as you say "better/op weapon" why dont you use it aswell, seen you in many season use stock and now you cry

??? I haven't equipped stock for like 2 years or some shit now lmfao]

edit: I MADE THIS FUCKING GROUP https://steamcommunity.com/groups/stockpipesblow

[quote=LUKASTANK]
if you have that opportunity to use as you say "better/op weapon" why dont you use it aswell, seen you in many season use stock and now you cry[/quote]

??? I haven't equipped stock for like 2 years or some shit now lmfao]

edit: I MADE THIS FUCKING GROUP https://steamcommunity.com/groups/stockpipesblow
40
#40
5 Frags +

I'm super puzzled by why there's so many people clamoring for the iron bomber to be banned now when I've heard extremely few people wanting it to be banned in the past 3 or so years since it became popular. Weapon bans should be based on their net impact on the game, and given that essentially the entire community has been fine with the iron bomber's impact for years, and nothing has actually changed, this all feels really odd to me.

I agree that the behavior of the IB and stock should match behaviors, and would love to see valve or maybe a plugin fix it - either by bringing the IB in line with the rest, or making the rest (or at least stock) match IB. However in the meantime, I think banning something that the community has been largely fine with for so long just because of some new info (that doesn't change anything about its behavior) is kinda stupid.

I'm super puzzled by why there's so many people clamoring for the iron bomber to be banned now when I've heard extremely few people wanting it to be banned in the past 3 or so years since it became popular. Weapon bans should be based on their net impact on the game, and given that essentially the entire community has been fine with the iron bomber's impact for years, and nothing has actually changed, this all feels really odd to me.

I agree that the behavior of the IB and stock should match behaviors, and would love to see valve or maybe a plugin fix it - either by bringing the IB in line with the rest, or making the rest (or at least stock) match IB. However in the meantime, I think banning something that the community has been largely fine with for so long just because of some new info (that doesn't change anything about its behavior) is kinda stupid.
41
#41
-22 Frags +

This weapon is here for like 3 years or something and you want to ban it NOW. Its the same weapon as it came out few years ago why would you want it to be banned NOW after like 3 years i dont get that

edit- also i dont think this thread is gonna make something change so we should just take it down lol

This weapon is here for like 3 years or something and you want to ban it NOW. Its the same weapon as it came out few years ago why would you want it to be banned NOW after like 3 years i dont get that

edit- also i dont think this thread is gonna make something change so we should just take it down lol
42
#42
29 Frags +

Lukas, it astonishes me that you, someone who's won prem as demo several times, is so in denial about the impact the Iron Bomber has. If there's someone who should know much about the game it should be you for god sake. You're comparing apples to oranges.

Lukas, it astonishes me that you, someone who's won prem as demo several times, is so in denial about the impact the Iron Bomber has. If there's someone who should know much about the game it should be you for god sake. You're comparing apples to oranges.
43
#43
20 Frags +

i think lukas argument is retarde

i think lukas argument is retarde
44
#44
22 Frags +
LUKASTANKThis weapon is here for like 3 years or something and you want to ban it NOW. Its the same weapon as it came out few years ago why would you want it to be banned NOW after like 3 years i dont get that

People have wanted it banned for ages, but they would get beaten down by others saying that the hitbox for the iron bomber pipes was the same as stock.

Now new information has been released in which the hitbox is NOT the same size and it isn't just to do with the cosmetic model.

This shows that pipes hitting when they look like they miss isn't just placebo, it's an actual thing. Many people have thought something was wrong with the weapon for this reason, and now there is no argument to keep it unbanned, since the weapon is pretty much a straight upgrade over stock.

[quote=LUKASTANK]This weapon is here for like 3 years or something and you want to ban it NOW. Its the same weapon as it came out few years ago why would you want it to be banned NOW after like 3 years i dont get that[/quote]

People have wanted it banned for ages, but they would get beaten down by others saying that the hitbox for the iron bomber pipes was the same as stock.

Now new information has been released in which the hitbox is NOT the same size and it isn't just to do with the cosmetic model.

This shows that pipes hitting when they look like they miss isn't just placebo, it's an actual thing. Many people have thought something was wrong with the weapon for this reason, and now there is no argument to keep it unbanned, since the weapon is pretty much a straight upgrade over stock.
45
#45
20 Frags +
LUKASTANKedit- also i dont think this thread is gonna make something change so we should just take it down lol

This seriously gives me the feeling you really don't want to miss your toy. You're so fucking good at demo, why the fuck are you afraid to lose it.

[quote=LUKASTANK]edit- also i dont think this thread is gonna make something change so we should just take it down lol[/quote]
This seriously gives me the feeling you really don't want to miss your toy. You're so fucking good at demo, why the fuck are you afraid to lose it.
46
#46
-11 Frags +

this thread is an upfrag laundering scheme

this thread is an upfrag laundering scheme
47
#47
25 Frags +

https://i.imgur.com/KJ1bmsc.png

[img]https://i.imgur.com/KJ1bmsc.png[/img]
48
#48
-15 Frags +
LUKASTANKif you wanna use iron bomber just use it, if you wanna use stock use stock. If you choose iron bomber i guess you have higher % hitting a pipe, but if you choose stock you get more spam thats it pros/cons of both weapons. I would say 90% ppl are using iron bomber over stock pipes so why would you want to ban it :D we could say stock pipe spam is op lets ban it in etf2l, its the same thing. Who voted "yes" is just someone who has been using stock for years or scout main being mad about getting double piped by iron bomber lol

im sorry but iron bomber is not breaking any tf2 gameplay, ppl are just mad cuz someone can actually aim thats it, also i dont think demoman needs nerf at this point its just another stupid thing how to get "better rules in etf2l or someshit"

also i would like to say - OnLy GoOd CuZ oF iRoN bOmBe -____-

ADDED - IF YOU WANT TO BAN IRON BOMBER PLEASE BAN WINGER BECAUSE ITS OP TO HAVE WINGER IN YOUR HAND AND DODGE EVERY SINGLE ROCKET

fuck mak all my homies stan lukas

[quote=LUKASTANK]if you wanna use iron bomber just use it, if you wanna use stock use stock. If you choose iron bomber i guess you have higher % hitting a pipe, but if you choose stock you get more spam thats it pros/cons of both weapons. I would say 90% ppl are using iron bomber over stock pipes so why would you want to ban it :D we could say stock pipe spam is op lets ban it in etf2l, its the same thing. Who voted "yes" is just someone who has been using stock for years or scout main being mad about getting double piped by iron bomber lol

im sorry but iron bomber is not breaking any tf2 gameplay, ppl are just mad cuz someone can actually aim thats it, also i dont think demoman needs nerf at this point its just another stupid thing how to get "better rules in etf2l or someshit"

also i would like to say - OnLy GoOd CuZ oF iRoN bOmBe -____-

ADDED - IF YOU WANT TO BAN IRON BOMBER PLEASE BAN WINGER BECAUSE ITS OP TO HAVE WINGER IN YOUR HAND AND DODGE EVERY SINGLE ROCKET[/quote]
fuck mak all my homies stan lukas
49
#49
-13 Frags +
AubriacLukas, it astonishes me that you, someone who's won prem as demo several times, is so in denial about the impact the Iron Bomber has. If there's someone who should know much about the game it should be you for god sake. You're comparing apples to oranges.

i dont think iron bomber is making any impact on the game there are many more unlocks/things in the game that make bigger impact than this, just my opinion i guess.

AubriacLUKASTANKedit- also i dont think this thread is gonna make something change so we should just take it down lolThis seriously gives me the feeling you really don't want to miss your toy. You're so fucking good at demo, why the fuck are you afraid to lose it.

ive built i would say good muscle memory on demoman sticking with same sensitivity and same weapon for over 3 years and thats why i got better at demoman, this would just make every demo used to iron bomber worse thats what i think

i dont want to make drama here or something so im just gonna leave this thread with that i think it wouldnt really change anything

[quote=Aubriac]Lukas, it astonishes me that you, someone who's won prem as demo several times, is so in denial about the impact the Iron Bomber has. If there's someone who should know much about the game it should be you for god sake. You're comparing apples to oranges.[/quote]

i dont think iron bomber is making any impact on the game there are many more unlocks/things in the game that make bigger impact than this, just my opinion i guess.

[quote=Aubriac][quote=LUKASTANK]edit- also i dont think this thread is gonna make something change so we should just take it down lol[/quote]
This seriously gives me the feeling you really don't want to miss your toy. You're so fucking good at demo, why the fuck are you afraid to lose it.[/quote]

ive built i would say good muscle memory on demoman sticking with same sensitivity and same weapon for over 3 years and thats why i got better at demoman, this would just make every demo used to iron bomber worse thats what i think

i dont want to make drama here or something so im just gonna leave this thread with that i think it wouldnt really change anything
50
#50
12 Frags +

Pepega Pepega Pepega LUKAS Pepega Pepega Pepega

Pepega Pepega Pepega LUKAS Pepega Pepega Pepega
51
#51
53 Frags +

Increase Grenade Launcher, Loose Cannon And Loch N Load Hitbox To Iron Bomber

Keep Demoman Great 2020

Increase Grenade Launcher, Loose Cannon And Loch N Load Hitbox To Iron Bomber

Keep Demoman Great 2020
52
#52
52 Frags +

hey soldier mains dont forget if we as demos fuck scouts harder its easier for all of us projectile classes lol

hey soldier mains dont forget if we as demos fuck scouts harder its easier for all of us projectile classes lol
53
#53
29 Frags +

iron bomber isnt problem stock is the problem the hitbox is small compared to actual graphical represantation on screen why not just fix stock instead being a fucking ball or something
also rockets are fucking 1 pixel fucking big so that means u will get FUCKED . . . .
also ban winger FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUck

The Picture scout mafia doesnt want youi to see.... (rocket goes through few pixel gap instead of splashing ?)

https://i.imgur.com/XvQkgNb.jpg

iron bomber isnt problem stock is the problem the hitbox is small compared to actual graphical represantation on screen why not just fix stock instead being a fucking ball or something
also rockets are fucking 1 pixel fucking big so that means u will get FUCKED . . . .
also ban winger FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUck

The Picture scout mafia doesnt want youi to see.... (rocket goes through few pixel gap instead of splashing ?)
[img]https://i.imgur.com/XvQkgNb.jpg[/img]
54
#54
7 Frags +

i dont know why u would ban it i definitely have never thought to blame a weapon when i get 2 piped by a demo and how good the stock is is kind of irrelevant because iron bomber is just the universally used weapon. banning the iron bomber will just make everyone use stock pipes instead, it doesnt add any diversity or change the game in any major way

i dont know why u would ban it i definitely have never thought to blame a weapon when i get 2 piped by a demo and how good the stock is is kind of irrelevant because iron bomber is just the universally used weapon. banning the iron bomber will just make everyone use stock pipes instead, it doesnt add any diversity or change the game in any major way
55
#55
0 Frags +
nikoAubriac.i use the stock because its old-school and all the old demomen that i grew up watching used to use it and its just so much more aesthetically pleasing
[quote=niko][quote=Aubriac].[/quote]
i use the stock because its old-school and all the old demomen that i grew up watching used to use it and its just so much more aesthetically pleasing[/quote]
56
#56
6 Frags +
LUKASTANKi dont think iron bomber is making any impact on the game there are many more unlocks/things in the game that make bigger impact than this, just my opinion i guess.LUKASTANKwe could say stock pipe spam is op lets ban it in etf2l, its the same thing.

You think it has less impact because you underestimate (or don't want to admit) how big of an upgrade it is over stock. You're saying stock spam is a good trade off for the all the things the Iron Bomber excells at. That sounds like flat-earther talk.

LUKASTANKive built i would say good muscle memory on demoman sticking with same sensitivity and same weapon for over 3 years and thats why i got better at demoman, this would just make every demo used to iron bomber worse thats what i think

i dont want to make drama here or something so im just gonna leave this thread with that i think it wouldnt really change anything

I don't want to make drama either, but it's almost like you're proving yourself wrong. The fact that you think that it makes every demo worse that uses IB, would confirms that it's just thát much better than stock. Though I've explained earlier that you can literally still be a good demo while using stock

[quote=LUKASTANK]i dont think iron bomber is making any impact on the game there are many more unlocks/things in the game that make bigger impact than this, just my opinion i guess.[/quote]
[quote=LUKASTANK]we could say stock pipe spam is op lets ban it in etf2l, its the same thing. [/quote]
You think it has less impact because you underestimate (or don't want to admit) how big of an upgrade it is over stock. You're saying stock spam is a good trade off for the all the things the Iron Bomber excells at. That sounds like flat-earther talk.
[quote=LUKASTANK]ive built i would say good muscle memory on demoman sticking with same sensitivity and same weapon for over 3 years and thats why i got better at demoman, this would just make every demo used to iron bomber worse thats what i think

i dont want to make drama here or something so im just gonna leave this thread with that i think it wouldnt really change anything[/quote]
I don't want to make drama either, but it's almost like you're proving yourself wrong. The fact that you think that it makes every demo worse that uses IB, would confirms that it's just thát much better than stock. Though I've explained earlier that you can literally still be a good demo while using stock
57
#57
1 Frags +
indecencynikoAubriac.i use the stock because its old-school and all the old demomen that i grew up watching used to use it and its just so much more aesthetically pleasing

indecency been true to the grind

[quote=indecency][quote=niko][quote=Aubriac].[/quote]
i use the stock because its old-school and all the old demomen that i grew up watching used to use it and its just so much more aesthetically pleasing[/quote][/quote]
indecency been true to the grind
58
#58
6 Frags +

You can argue that it's a straight upgrade from regular pipes (which in almost all cases it is) but it's not like it's game ruining or overpowered. Ideally all pipes should have the same collision box to make it a more meaningful choice but I think the power level of the iron bomber is fine where it is. If we want to start banning all items that are just generally straight upgrades we can remove ubersaw, boston basher, xbow, escape plan, etc. which nobody would argue for.
Also, demo definitely isn't "the strongest class in the game", it just has the highest potential impact of any class. Scouts have a way more consistent impact on most fights to the point where it's basically suicide to take any fight while you don't have a scout alive on your team, not to mention how vital they are to basically any uber.

You can argue that it's a straight upgrade from regular pipes (which in almost all cases it is) but it's not like it's game ruining or overpowered. Ideally all pipes should have the same collision box to make it a more meaningful choice but I think the power level of the iron bomber is fine where it is. If we want to start banning all items that are just generally straight upgrades we can remove ubersaw, boston basher, xbow, escape plan, etc. which nobody would argue for.
Also, demo definitely isn't "the strongest class in the game", it just has the highest potential impact of any class. Scouts have a way more consistent impact on most fights to the point where it's basically suicide to take any fight while you don't have a scout alive on your team, not to mention how vital they are to basically any uber.
59
#59
34 Frags +

https://i.imgur.com/2BTTZU4.png

[img]https://i.imgur.com/2BTTZU4.png[/img]
60
#60
5 Frags +

here's the situation amigos

there are four main lines of argumentation that people use to argue that unlocks should be banned, in order from least to most restrictive:

1. the weapon is overpowered/gamebreaking- pretty much everyone agrees on this one

2. the weapon makes the game significantly less fun- this one is much more hotly contested but it's understandable why people would want to keep the game fast-paced and skill-expressive

3. the weapon is a straight upgrade- this reasoning is stupid, because a) we have accepted so many upgrades over stock weapons already, and b) it says nothing about the weapon's actual effect on the game. some people even try to change this to a related point, that 'everyone uses' the weapon, so it 'reduces diversity of options'- ok what about sticky bombs, or the rocket launcher, or medigun? in terms of unlocks, what about gunboats, basher, xbow, etc.? such a stupid argument

4. the weapon doesn't 'add anything to the game'- this is the final nail in the coffin, because it leads to sidegrades or even downgrades being banned BECAUSE people don't use them (like the sun on a stick or some bullshit). this and argument #3 were what lead EU to have their stoneage vanilla + med unlocks whitelist for so long despite it making their tf2 a total joke compared to NA.

beforehand, reasons #3 and 4 were confined mostly to dribblers on the ETF2L forums. now, we all must be exposed to this nonsense. I tested my theory with a post saying 'ban euros from tftv', which is currently sitting at -15 frags. because no self-respecting na tf2 player would ever -frag such a post, we can conclude that there are significantly more euros interacting with this thread than yanks. does this mean tftv itself is majority euro, or merely that euros are drawn to threads whinging about unlocks like moths to a flame? either way, I don't like it. we must band together and repel their invading hordes, and maintain the sanctity of our game!

here's the situation amigos

there are four main lines of argumentation that people use to argue that unlocks should be banned, in order from least to most restrictive:

1. the weapon is overpowered/gamebreaking- pretty much everyone agrees on this one

2. the weapon makes the game significantly less fun- this one is much more hotly contested but it's understandable why people would want to keep the game fast-paced and skill-expressive

3. the weapon is a straight upgrade- this reasoning is stupid, because a) we have accepted so many upgrades over stock weapons already, and b) it says nothing about the weapon's actual effect on the game. some people even try to change this to a related point, that 'everyone uses' the weapon, so it 'reduces diversity of options'- ok what about sticky bombs, or the rocket launcher, or medigun? in terms of unlocks, what about gunboats, basher, xbow, etc.? such a stupid argument

4. the weapon doesn't 'add anything to the game'- this is the final nail in the coffin, because it leads to sidegrades or even downgrades being banned BECAUSE people don't use them (like the sun on a stick or some bullshit). this and argument #3 were what lead EU to have their stoneage vanilla + med unlocks whitelist for so long despite it making their tf2 a total joke compared to NA.

beforehand, reasons #3 and 4 were confined mostly to dribblers on the ETF2L forums. now, we all must be exposed to this nonsense. I tested my theory with a post saying 'ban euros from tftv', which is currently sitting at -15 frags. because no self-respecting na tf2 player would ever -frag such a post, we can conclude that there are significantly more euros interacting with this thread than yanks. does this mean tftv itself is majority euro, or merely that euros are drawn to threads whinging about unlocks like moths to a flame? either way, I don't like it. we must band together and repel their invading hordes, and maintain the sanctity of our game!
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