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Why crossbow is bad for TF2
1
#1
0 Frags +
  • Eliminates weapon variety: Its so good that all the other primaries are considered "trolling"
  • Stand-still meta: Nothing says "fast gameplay" like seeing half your team standing for arrows in the middle of a fight.
  • Viewlock: While medigun lets you look around while healing, crossbow forces you to place your crosshair at your teammate and lose situational awareness, wich might stop you from seeing a soldier jumping you or some scout flanking for you.
  • Gameflow: This isnt related to medic specifically but to the entire team. Even if they dont stand still for arrows, the midfights and teamfights in general will get drawn out longer than usual due to the crossbow insta +100HP. "Demo is wea- oh nevermind arrows exist" This forces to play using damage bursts, as leaving someone weak doesnt really mean anything anymore. "Bow me doc" and instantly back to full health, woah nice skill you didnt dodge your med's arrow.
  • Fun? Thats subjective, and let me tell you buddy, i dont find this stagnant clutchbow meta fun. Back when it didnt build uber and nobody stood still for arrows it was more fresh and fun to use but now that you're expected to pull it out every 4 seconds its nowhere near as fun.

One might think "but it heals so much faster so it makes for faster gameplay", but its actually the opposite. Everyone lives longer, everyone takes more damage to kill, and worst of all, people hide away or stand still during fights to get their sorry ass back to full health.

From a wider perspective, even if some medics say its fun, it also sucks out the fun for the rest of the players by just making fights more frustrating and drawn-out that they should due to its huge healing cappabilities. Its basically rescue ranger for medic after all

So its not really about the crossbow being OP compared to other medic weapons, wich it obviously is, but its more about how it harms game flow in general.

[list]
[*] Eliminates weapon variety: Its so good that all the other primaries are considered "trolling"
[*] Stand-still meta: Nothing says "fast gameplay" like seeing half your team standing for arrows in the middle of a fight.
[*] Viewlock: While medigun lets you look around while healing, crossbow forces you to place your crosshair at your teammate and lose situational awareness, wich might stop you from seeing a soldier jumping you or some scout flanking for you.
[*] Gameflow: This isnt related to medic specifically but to the entire team. Even if they dont stand still for arrows, the midfights and teamfights in general will get drawn out longer than usual due to the crossbow insta +100HP. "Demo is wea- oh nevermind arrows exist" This forces to play using damage bursts, as leaving someone weak doesnt really mean anything anymore. "Bow me doc" and instantly back to full health, woah nice skill you didnt dodge your med's arrow.
[*] Fun? Thats subjective, and let me tell you buddy, i dont find this stagnant clutchbow meta fun. Back when it didnt build uber and nobody stood still for arrows it was more fresh and fun to use but now that you're expected to pull it out every 4 seconds its nowhere near as fun.
[/list]
One might think "but it heals so much faster so it makes for faster gameplay", but its actually the opposite. Everyone lives longer, everyone takes more damage to kill, and worst of all, people hide away or stand still during fights to get their sorry ass back to full health.

From a wider perspective, even if some medics say its fun, it also sucks out the fun for the rest of the players by just making fights more frustrating and drawn-out that they should due to its huge healing cappabilities. Its basically rescue ranger for medic after all

So its not really about the crossbow being OP compared to other medic weapons, wich it obviously is, but its more about [b]how it harms game flow in general[/b].
2
#2
77 Frags +

time for this thread again

time for this thread again
3
#3
CappingTV
32 Frags +
Console-time for this thread again

https://i.imgur.com/My1Pywp.png

let's just unban everything again

[quote=Console-]time for this thread again[/quote]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/My1Pywp.png[/img]
let's just unban everything again
4
#4
36 Frags +

it significantly increases medic skill. people only stand still for arrows because bad medics can't hit players who are moving. i can tell u if u can arrow ur teammates without them calling for one, it doesn't slow the game down at all.

it significantly increases medic skill. people only stand still for arrows because bad medics can't hit players who are moving. i can tell u if u can arrow ur teammates without them calling for one, it doesn't slow the game down at all.
5
#5
25 Frags +

boo i say

boo i say
6
#6
27 Frags +
phoroforit significantly increases medic skill. people only stand still for arrows because bad medics can't hit players who are moving. i can tell u if u can arrow ur teammates without them calling for one, it doesn't slow the game down at all.

it slows the game down because it makes it so you can't push off damage.... not because people stand still for arrows

[quote=phorofor]it significantly increases medic skill. people only stand still for arrows because bad medics can't hit players who are moving. i can tell u if u can arrow ur teammates without them calling for one, it doesn't slow the game down at all.[/quote]
it slows the game down because it makes it so you can't push off damage.... not because people stand still for arrows
7
#7
2 Frags +
phoroforit significantly increases medic skill. people only stand still for arrows because bad medics can't hit players who are moving. i can tell u if u can arrow ur teammates without them calling for one, it doesn't slow the game down at all.

as i said in my post, increasing the healing potential of medic by design slows the game down, regardless of if you stand still or not

[quote=phorofor]it significantly increases medic skill. people only stand still for arrows because bad medics can't hit players who are moving. i can tell u if u can arrow ur teammates without them calling for one, it doesn't slow the game down at all.[/quote]
as i said in my post, increasing the healing potential of medic by design slows the game down, regardless of if you stand still or not
8
#8
11 Frags +

I don't think that the crossbow can be fully blamed for the slowing of the game

I don't think that the crossbow can be fully blamed for the slowing of the game
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#9
22 Frags +

i think its fun to air shot people for heals

i think its fun to air shot people for heals
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#10
42 Frags +

Speaking as a solly.. Life without crossbow would be miserable.

I already don't get any heals I don't want any less. Please don't push this game even further towards scout. Without crossbow there is very little reason to put any resources into Soldier so you just put more into your scouts. I would probably just end up jumping in on 80hp instead of attempting to find safe location for an arrow.The game is already favourable to the scouts please don't take away my only heals :(

Speaking as a solly.. Life without crossbow would be miserable.

I already don't get any heals I don't want any less. Please don't push this game even further towards scout. Without crossbow there is very little reason to put any resources into Soldier so you just put more into your scouts. I would probably just end up jumping in on 80hp instead of attempting to find safe location for an arrow.The game is already favourable to the scouts please don't take away my only heals :(
11
#11
34 Frags +

https://i.imgur.com/maxpczx.jpg

[img]https://i.imgur.com/maxpczx.jpg[/img]
12
#12
-9 Frags +
Lesbian_Jake

Brother, you have become accostumed to a vice, but theres another side to this coin... The enemy also has this rotten vice on their hands. And once they are removed from it, they will also be easier to kill. Its not about your team losing crossbow, its about the whole existance of crossbow being removed from your match
You'd be surprised how natural and direct teamfights feel once the crossbow is no longer there. At least give it a try.
Your damage would matter a whole lot more too.

[quote=Lesbian_Jake][/quote]
Brother, you have become accostumed to a vice, but theres another side to this coin... The enemy also has this rotten vice on their hands. And once they are removed from it, they will also be easier to kill. Its not about your team losing crossbow, its about the whole existance of crossbow being removed from your match
You'd be surprised how natural and direct teamfights feel once the crossbow is no longer there. At least give it a try.
Your damage would matter a whole lot more too.
13
#13
23 Frags +

Before there was crossbow people could actually push off damage which made players position themselves better. Removing it would just be positive as players would start actually using their head to make plays not just " OH I'M FAKE BOMBING IN BOW ME AFTER I SHOOT TWO ROCKETS AND COME BACK, OH I'M FULL AFTER ONE ARROW TIME TO GO AGAIN" or my personal favorite " SCOUT TOOK 400 STILL FULL" after getting 4 random arrows across the map shot by someone just spamming them in choke points during fights

You know what just make crossbow not reload automatically. Done.

Before there was crossbow people could actually push off damage which made players position themselves better. Removing it would just be positive as players would start actually using their head to make plays not just " OH I'M FAKE BOMBING IN BOW ME AFTER I SHOOT TWO ROCKETS AND COME BACK, OH I'M FULL AFTER ONE ARROW TIME TO GO AGAIN" or my personal favorite " SCOUT TOOK 400 STILL FULL" after getting 4 random arrows across the map shot by someone just spamming them in choke points during fights

You know what just make crossbow not reload automatically. Done.
14
#14
3 Frags +

e v e r y t h r e e m o n t h s

e v e r y t h r e e m o n t h s
15
#15
23 Frags +

Can you nerds just do like a master thread on the crossbow instead of creating a new one each time

Can you nerds just do like a master thread on the crossbow instead of creating a new one each time
16
#16
16 Frags +
AelkyrCan you nerds just do like a master thread on the crossbow instead of creating a new one each time

but then we wouldnt be able to make the same points over and over again every couple months

[quote=Aelkyr]Can you nerds just do like a master thread on the crossbow instead of creating a new one each time[/quote]
but then we wouldnt be able to make the same points over and over again every couple months
17
#17
11 Frags +

make a subforum for crossbow posts

make a subforum for crossbow posts
18
#18
26 Frags +

I really feel like the speed buff for med when healing scouts is the true shit gameplay change, and that's coming from a depressed life-hating med main

I really feel like the speed buff for med when healing scouts is the true shit gameplay change, and that's coming from a depressed life-hating med main
19
#19
-4 Frags +

no

no
20
#20
5 Frags +

Interesting opinion, I disagree though. Delete sniper class instead!

Interesting opinion, I disagree though. Delete sniper class instead!
21
#21
2 Frags +

give needles heals \:D/

give needles heals \:D/
22
#22
2 Frags +

think removing it would just make the med drought worse

think removing it would just make the med drought worse
23
#23
12 Frags +

It should never build any uber whatsoever and if it stayed in its current form it should not auto-reload off screen.

But really imo the way it should work is that when you get hit you instantly receive a small healthpack (20% hp) worth of health and the rest of the hp should be applied slowly, like having a level 2 (or w/e) dispenser stuck to you until all the healing has been applied. The total amount of health given would be the same as it is now... dependent on range. I think this would still give the valuable and clutch burst heal but also not just instant damage-undoing.

It should never build any uber whatsoever and if it stayed in its current form it should not auto-reload off screen.

But really imo the way it should work is that when you get hit you instantly receive a small healthpack (20% hp) worth of health and the rest of the hp should be applied slowly, like having a level 2 (or w/e) dispenser stuck to you until all the healing has been applied. The total amount of health given would be the same as it is now... dependent on range. I think this would still give the valuable and clutch burst heal but also not just instant damage-undoing.
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#24
6 Frags +
JaguarFiendthe rest of the hp should be applied slowly

Agree with the heal over time thing, but dispenser healing is too slow. You can make the healing rate dependent on the target's movement speed when arrow hits, so that medic gets rewarded for hitting moving players instead of standing ones.

[quote=JaguarFiend]the rest of the hp should be applied slowly[/quote]
Agree with the heal over time thing, but dispenser healing is too slow. You can make the healing rate dependent on the target's movement speed when arrow hits, so that medic gets rewarded for hitting moving players instead of standing ones.
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#25
5 Frags +

There's absolutely nothing wrong with long teamfights!

There's absolutely nothing wrong with long teamfights!
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#26
2 Frags +

Now that u posted this thread. I finally agree wit banning the crossbow becouse it slows teh game down Lole!

Now that u posted this thread. I finally agree wit banning the crossbow becouse it slows teh game down Lole!
27
#27
1 Frags +
phoroforit significantly increases medic skill. people only stand still for arrows because bad medics can't hit players who are moving. i can tell u if u can arrow ur teammates without them calling for one, it doesn't slow the game down at all.

it increases meds skillset slightly by having to aim a bit/be able to predict movement a bit but on the other hand it lowers it a lot by streamlining the skill of managing and keeping track your teams health by providing massive bursts of hp at request
also these arrows "prevent" frags from happening so by ops theory it slows the game down

[quote=phorofor]it significantly increases medic skill. people only stand still for arrows because bad medics can't hit players who are moving. i can tell u if u can arrow ur teammates without them calling for one, it doesn't slow the game down at all.[/quote]
it increases meds skillset slightly by having to aim a bit/be able to predict movement a bit but on the other hand it lowers it a lot by streamlining the skill of managing and keeping track your teams health by providing massive bursts of hp at request
also these arrows "prevent" frags from happening so by ops theory it slows the game down
28
#28
25 Frags +
sageEliminates weapon variety: Its so good that all the other primaries are considered "trolling"

I too miss being able to choose between Syringe Gun A, Syringe Gun B and Syringe Gun C.

New players just don't have the gamesense to choose the correct one in all situations.
You know, Blutsauger for when choosing between not healing your team or dying more easily seems like a good strategy.
Overdose for when running away faster might be useful and stock for when the item servers are down.

sageViewlock: While medigun lets you look around while healing, crossbow forces you to place your crosshair at your teammate and lose situational awareness, wich might stop you from seeing a soldier jumping you or some scout flanking for you.

Yeah, how could Valve dare not giving Medic permanent 360° vision. Having to look at players to start healing them is barely tolerable.

[quote=sage]
Eliminates weapon variety: Its so good that all the other primaries are considered "trolling"
[/quote]
I too miss being able to choose between Syringe Gun A, Syringe Gun B and Syringe Gun C.

New players just don't have the gamesense to choose the correct one in all situations.
You know, Blutsauger for when choosing between not healing your team or dying more easily seems like a good strategy.
Overdose for when running away faster might be useful and stock for when the item servers are down.

[quote=sage]
Viewlock: While medigun lets you look around while healing, crossbow forces you to place your crosshair at your teammate and lose situational awareness, wich might stop you from seeing a soldier jumping you or some scout flanking for you.
[/quote]
Yeah, how could Valve dare not giving Medic permanent 360° vision. Having to look at players to start healing them is barely tolerable.
29
#29
-20 Frags +

please add arrow building back please please please

please add arrow building back please please please
30
#30
-18 Frags +

Reminder that Medic mains opinions don't matter because they're all giant masochists which means that they're degenerates.

Reminder that Medic mains opinions don't matter because they're all giant masochists which means that they're degenerates.
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