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thoughts on cups?
1
#1
0 Frags +

with lan's being indefinitely postponed what's everyone's opinion on having some online cups? like the eu essentials cup coming up or those old faceit cups.

I'm kind of fed up with committing to a several month long season and scrimming 5 nights a week; it's not good on the mental you know. But I still think it's fun to play in a competitive environment, and maybe something like this would entice some older players to dip their toes every once in a while.

with lan's being indefinitely postponed what's everyone's opinion on having some online cups? like the eu essentials cup coming up or those old faceit cups.

I'm kind of fed up with committing to a several month long season and scrimming 5 nights a week; it's not good on the mental you know. But I still think it's fun to play in a competitive environment, and maybe something like this would entice some older players to dip their toes every once in a while.
2
#2
12 Frags +

Definitely agree with the commitment part. Lots of people who aren't playing this season still pug and shit more casually and can put together 5 other ppl to play in cups. You can also have a small buy in (maybe a key/ $2.50 idk) to give an incentive/prize pool

Definitely agree with the commitment part. Lots of people who aren't playing this season still pug and shit more casually and can put together 5 other ppl to play in cups. You can also have a small buy in (maybe a key/ $2.50 idk) to give an incentive/prize pool
3
#3
-31 Frags +

I’ve been trying to make these and no one has participated in them even though I’ve spent hard earned money for prize pools within the tournaments. I’m upset now.

I’ve been trying to make these and no one has participated in them even though I’ve spent hard earned money for prize pools within the tournaments. I’m upset now.
4
#4
21 Frags +

the essentials cup is just a replacement for lan essentially, better late than never i suppose. cups are nice every now and then but if the essentials monthlies taught us anything they can be quite the workload if back to back for players and staff.

cre-8I’ve been trying to make these and no one has participated in them even though I’ve spent hard earned money for prize pools within the tournaments. I’m upset now.

dont waste money on this game.

the essentials cup is just a replacement for lan essentially, better late than never i suppose. cups are nice every now and then but if the essentials monthlies taught us anything they can be quite the workload if back to back for players and staff.
[quote=cre-8]I’ve been trying to make these and no one has participated in them even though I’ve spent hard earned money for prize pools within the tournaments. I’m upset now.[/quote]
dont waste money on this game.
5
#5
-13 Frags +

cups? oh yeah i put water in them lol

cups? oh yeah i put water in them lol
6
#6
Essentials.TF
37 Frags +

I promise the upcoming cup we're planning will be an attractive, grand affair. We've got some further news coming out before the end of the month.

I promise the upcoming cup we're planning will be an attractive, grand affair. We've got some further news coming out before the end of the month.
7
#7
7 Frags +

yea id def play in one day/weekend cups with lower commitment, sounds like a good way to keep the community engaged w/o lans

yea id def play in one day/weekend cups with lower commitment, sounds like a good way to keep the community engaged w/o lans
8
#8
2 Frags +

very epic. wouldn't mind have one every few months or so

very epic. wouldn't mind have one every few months or so
9
#9
4 Frags +

Cups are great. One thing I think we could learn from the Yomps tournament is that it should be spread out over 3 nights if the bracket runs for 6 hours per day.

Cups are great. One thing I think we could learn from the Yomps tournament is that it should be spread out over 3 nights if the bracket runs for 6 hours per day.
10
#10
5 Frags +

if cups are during the week please dont make them start before regular scrim times, i’ve had to miss a handful of cups because i work until 9 est

if cups are during the week please dont make them start before regular scrim times, i’ve had to miss a handful of cups because i work until 9 est
11
#11
26 Frags +

not a fan of playing 4+ hours a day for a cup but maybe like a friday + weekend cup with 2 or 3 game each day would be cool

not a fan of playing 4+ hours a day for a cup but maybe like a friday + weekend cup with 2 or 3 game each day would be cool
12
#12
0 Frags +

f cup all the way

f cup all the way
13
#13
42 Frags +

the iseries replacement cup should be called icup

the iseries replacement cup should be called icup
14
#14
2 Frags +

the more opportunities for people to play comp the better

the more opportunities for people to play comp the better
15
#15
2 Frags +
Nathannot a fan of playing 4+ hours a day for a cup but maybe like a friday + weekend cup with 2 or 3 game each day would be cool

could even spread it out over one week, so long as that week is like once a month or something.

[quote=Nathan]not a fan of playing 4+ hours a day for a cup but maybe like a friday + weekend cup with 2 or 3 game each day would be cool[/quote]
could even spread it out over one week, so long as that week is like once a month or something.
16
#16
2 Frags +

I love cups. I enjoy competing more than I enjoy playing games, and I think cups are of a higher competition level than a league (barring playoff matches).

The problem is signup consistency. It's difficult to make a cup for one month that has 32 signups and another cup for another month that has 8 signups. Noone of a lower skill will signup for the smaller one, since they likely will face one good team and lose and be knocked out.

Only two solutions I can think of are having more skill separated cups, like when say prem level teams are not allowed to enter (nearly impossible with a small number of signups), or more people signup to any cup. Both of these are so hard to do with such a small number of people though. You really need at least 30 teams for a successful cup to happen.

It really is just logistics that makes it so hard to run cups more often, which is a shame.

I love cups. I enjoy competing more than I enjoy playing games, and I think cups are of a higher competition level than a league (barring playoff matches).

The problem is signup consistency. It's difficult to make a cup for one month that has 32 signups and another cup for another month that has 8 signups. Noone of a lower skill will signup for the smaller one, since they likely will face one good team and lose and be knocked out.

Only two solutions I can think of are having more skill separated cups, like when say prem level teams are not allowed to enter (nearly impossible with a small number of signups), or more people signup to any cup. Both of these are so hard to do with such a small number of people though. You really need at least 30 teams for a successful cup to happen.

It really is just logistics that makes it so hard to run cups more often, which is a shame.
17
#17
0 Frags +

sounds like a cool idea

sounds like a cool idea
18
#18
0 Frags +

yes please, it would be cool to do something like the yomps tourney where an entry fee goes to someone in need.

yes please, it would be cool to do something like the yomps tourney where an entry fee goes to someone in need.
19
#19
7 Frags +

How often do you want them to happen?
I don't know if it's been the same in NA but in EU whenever there's an effort to have semi regular cups they always end with having a lack of signups after the 4th or so(eg. essentials,esl). etf2l cups rarely have prem or even d1 teams participate, just a bunch of mid/high mixes playing vs each other in the "top" group (i don't think this was the case before 2016, i remember a less limited whitelist cup getting casted which at least had prem mixes play it).

I personally really enjoy cups i just don't see anything other than having one every once in a while working, big fan of playing matches back2back. (lockdown throwdown has been great so far, shame u cant watch the vods LOL :)))

[i wrote this before i read what doughy said me stupid :D ]

How often do you want them to happen?
I don't know if it's been the same in NA but in EU whenever there's an effort to have semi regular cups they always end with having a lack of signups after the 4th or so(eg. essentials,esl). etf2l cups rarely have prem or even d1 teams participate, just a bunch of mid/high mixes playing vs each other in the "top" group (i don't think this was the case before 2016, i remember a less limited whitelist cup getting casted which at least had prem mixes play it).

I personally really enjoy cups i just don't see anything other than having one every once in a while working, big fan of playing matches back2back. (lockdown throwdown has been great so far, shame u cant watch the vods LOL :)))

[i wrote this before i read what doughy said me stupid :D ]
20
#20
11 Frags +

Bump.

I've been enjoying all of the recent cups much more than playing a 3 month season. Would really prefer it if they were the main focus of tf2. I don't watch casted tf2 so i'd like to hear viewer opinions on watching them vs watching a season.

Bump.

I've been enjoying all of the recent cups much more than playing a 3 month season. Would really prefer it if they were the main focus of tf2. I don't watch casted tf2 so i'd like to hear viewer opinions on watching them vs watching a season.
21
#21
1 Frags +

please recycle

please recycle
22
#22
eXtelevision
7 Frags +

HOLLER AT YAO BOY

(I'd like to throw a cup coming up soon, been kicking around a lot of different ideas in my mind)

HOLLER AT YAO BOY

(I'd like to throw a cup coming up soon, been kicking around a lot of different ideas in my mind)
23
#23
5 Frags +

Melee community did it and it worked out really well for them. Surprised the TF2 community didn't follow suit.

Melee community did it and it worked out really well for them. Surprised the TF2 community didn't follow suit.
24
#24
-8 Frags +

just want some NA cups the EU ones look fun D:

just want some NA cups the EU ones look fun D:
25
#25
11 Frags +

seasons can be a drag at 7+ weeks but cups with 8 hours of tf2 in 1 day are not much better

i think if cups were formatted better they would be much more popular

- one of the biggest issues ive had with cups is being one of the higher end open bracket teams who just play vs noobs all day and get knocked out vs a prem team in the first bo3 and see the teams who we rolled over get rewarded by not going up against a prem team but continuing in an open bracket (could some kind of new div for the prem mizes / div1 teams be implemented to prevent div 1 vs low in the groups?)

+ also as a team leader i really appreciate that i didnt have to give like 10 links per teammate for this last tournament, so thanks for that

i think a cup over a few weeks / weekends but not 2 months is something we should try too

seasons can be a drag at 7+ weeks but cups with 8 hours of tf2 in 1 day are not much better

i think if cups were formatted better they would be much more popular

- one of the biggest issues ive had with cups is being one of the higher end open bracket teams who just play vs noobs all day and get knocked out vs a prem team in the first bo3 and see the teams who we rolled over get rewarded by not going up against a prem team but continuing in an open bracket (could some kind of new div for the prem mizes / div1 teams be implemented to prevent div 1 vs low in the groups?)

+ also as a team leader i really appreciate that i didnt have to give like 10 links per teammate for this last tournament, so thanks for that

i think a cup over a few weeks / weekends but not 2 months is something we should try too
26
#26
10 Frags +

For this cup there were way too many games. By sunday I was super tired of playing TF2. I think the lockdown cup earlier this year had a better approach by splitting the invite teams into two groups, especially because the group stage barely matters anyway.

Apart from that I suppose cups should be held every 6 months maybe (if the no LAN period goes on). I think if they happen too often they are gonna lose their appeal and nobody is gonna sign up.

For this cup there were way too many games. By sunday I was super tired of playing TF2. I think the lockdown cup earlier this year had a better approach by splitting the invite teams into two groups, especially because the group stage barely matters anyway.

Apart from that I suppose cups should be held every 6 months maybe (if the no LAN period goes on). I think if they happen too often they are gonna lose their appeal and nobody is gonna sign up.
27
#27
Essentials.TF
7 Frags +
charleseasons can be a drag at 7+ weeks but cups with 8 hours of tf2 in 1 day are not much better

i think if cups were formatted better they would be much more popular

- one of the biggest issues ive had with cups is being one of the higher end open bracket teams who just play vs noobs all day and get knocked out vs a prem team in the first bo3 and see the teams who we rolled over get rewarded by not going up against a prem team but continuing in an open bracket (could some kind of new div for the prem mizes / div1 teams be implemented to prevent div 1 vs low in the groups?)

+ also as a team leader i really appreciate that i didnt have to give like 10 links per teammate for this last tournament, so thanks for that

i think a cup over a few weeks / weekends but not 2 months is something we should try too

A better structure for the top level teams to compete on a more even playing field is 100% something we're looking to change in the future.

We understand that as a team leader a lot of information is required, usually we wouldn't ask for emails for every teammate but in the DreamHack cup prize money is being sent to each player in the team. Hindsight now says we will just ask for the extra details when required after the cup ends.

As for ETF2L links etc, in the past it is a MASSIVE pain when people put all different varieties of steamids (steam2s, steam3s, steam64s, vanity urls etc, incorrect ids entirely), using ETF2L profile urls, we can lookup the steam64 ids from them, and it should be something that is easier to get hold of for team leaders over steamids and something with a lower chance of being fudged (thought this did happen on some somehow).

Multi-weekend sounds great in theory but in practice it is made more difficult when say ETF2L seasons are on - more thought needs to be put into that viability

[quote=charle]seasons can be a drag at 7+ weeks but cups with 8 hours of tf2 in 1 day are not much better

i think if cups were formatted better they would be much more popular

- one of the biggest issues ive had with cups is being one of the higher end open bracket teams who just play vs noobs all day and get knocked out vs a prem team in the first bo3 and see the teams who we rolled over get rewarded by not going up against a prem team but continuing in an open bracket (could some kind of new div for the prem mizes / div1 teams be implemented to prevent div 1 vs low in the groups?)

+ also as a team leader i really appreciate that i didnt have to give like 10 links per teammate for this last tournament, so thanks for that

i think a cup over a few weeks / weekends but not 2 months is something we should try too[/quote]

A better structure for the top level teams to compete on a more even playing field is 100% something we're looking to change in the future.

We understand that as a team leader a lot of information is required, usually we wouldn't ask for emails for every teammate but in the DreamHack cup prize money is being sent to each player in the team. Hindsight now says we will just ask for the extra details when required after the cup ends.

As for ETF2L links etc, in the past it is a MASSIVE pain when people put all different varieties of steamids (steam2s, steam3s, steam64s, vanity urls etc, incorrect ids entirely), using ETF2L profile urls, we can lookup the steam64 ids from them, and it should be something that is easier to get hold of for team leaders over steamids and something with a lower chance of being fudged (thought this did happen on some somehow).

Multi-weekend sounds great in theory but in practice it is made more difficult when say ETF2L seasons are on - more thought needs to be put into that viability
28
#28
6 Frags +

Personally i think the lockdown throwdown cups were on the right tracks cup wise and not soo much the dreamhack one, but not because the layout was wrong just because in the lockdown throwdown ones the lower end teams still got to play in a play off system / group on the second day.

Lockdown throwdown 1 for me saw an almost perfect system. Groups on the first day and playoffs on the second but also placement play-offs for all the lower end teams that dont make it through into the invite bracket ro16. Giving the majority of teams something to play for and a good second day of solid match ups of their own level (ish). It did unfortunately fail to cater for the top end teams that arnt quite prem seeing the same issue as the Dreamhack one saw that Charle mentions above leaving them knocked out straight away in the ro16 after winning the groups.

Lockdown 2 was pretty much the same but ended up with a 2nd day placement based group rather than playoffs (maybe due to sign ups / possibly due to teams not realising it was a thing) Personally id rather see it go through a proper play off layout on the second day even for the lower end but even the second day group meant decent games on the second day for almost all involved. (This one still having the same winning group cos you are d2+ and getting knocked out straight away vs invite team issue)

Dreamhack didnt see anything for the lower end teams on the sunday which for me took the enjoyment out of it and meant for a less serious approach to the saturday games (we used a random class generator for most of it) unlike in the lockdown ones where you always had something to play for.

Though we all love seeing the top end teams playing it out for me all the teams participating should get to run the "tournament experience" being group stages on day 1 and then placement play offs with pick bans etc etc bo3s on day2.

I am not sure what you can do about the winning groups and then getting knocked out in the ro16.

Obviously i am fully aware it requires a fair bit more work to implement what Lockdown Throwdown 1 had along with sign ups always being an unknown but im not suggesting that anyone should simply start giving up their time just so i get to play in a 2/3rd place playoff system on a sunday afternoon but for as far as tournements go for me that one almost nailed it. It was great fun and competitive.

I hope all that makes sense. Ive rambled on abit more than i expected. Thats just my two-penny worth, i could be way off the mark but thats what i got from the last 3 tournements.

Personally i think the lockdown throwdown cups were on the right tracks cup wise and not soo much the dreamhack one, but not because the layout was wrong just because in the lockdown throwdown ones the lower end teams still got to play in a play off system / group on the second day.

Lockdown throwdown 1 for me saw an almost perfect system. Groups on the first day and playoffs on the second but also placement play-offs for all the lower end teams that dont make it through into the invite bracket ro16. Giving the majority of teams something to play for and a good second day of solid match ups of their own level (ish). It did unfortunately fail to cater for the top end teams that arnt quite prem seeing the same issue as the Dreamhack one saw that Charle mentions above leaving them knocked out straight away in the ro16 after winning the groups.

Lockdown 2 was pretty much the same but ended up with a 2nd day placement based group rather than playoffs (maybe due to sign ups / possibly due to teams not realising it was a thing) Personally id rather see it go through a proper play off layout on the second day even for the lower end but even the second day group meant decent games on the second day for almost all involved. (This one still having the same winning group cos you are d2+ and getting knocked out straight away vs invite team issue)

Dreamhack didnt see anything for the lower end teams on the sunday which for me took the enjoyment out of it and meant for a less serious approach to the saturday games (we used a random class generator for most of it) unlike in the lockdown ones where you always had something to play for.

Though we all love seeing the top end teams playing it out for me all the teams participating should get to run the "tournament experience" being group stages on day 1 and then placement play offs with pick bans etc etc bo3s on day2.

I am not sure what you can do about the winning groups and then getting knocked out in the ro16.

Obviously i am fully aware it requires a fair bit more work to implement what Lockdown Throwdown 1 had along with sign ups always being an unknown but im not suggesting that anyone should simply start giving up their time just so i get to play in a 2/3rd place playoff system on a sunday afternoon but for as far as tournements go for me that one almost nailed it. It was great fun and competitive.


I hope all that makes sense. Ive rambled on abit more than i expected. Thats just my two-penny worth, i could be way off the mark but thats what i got from the last 3 tournements.
29
#29
TFNew
0 Frags +

i like watching cups but i dont think i'd like playing them. just seems tedious and i wouldnt like the routine required (although i played at lan but thats different ya know? vibes and that). dont have an issue with them happening obviously but just throwing it out there that there are people with an opposite opinion to coyo (as in i dont prefer them to seasonal league play and dont want them replacing it).

i like watching cups but i dont think i'd like playing them. just seems tedious and i wouldnt like the routine required (although i played at lan but thats different ya know? vibes and that). dont have an issue with them happening obviously but just throwing it out there that there are people with an opposite opinion to coyo (as in i dont prefer them to seasonal league play and dont want them replacing it).
30
#30
Stream Highlights
6 Frags +

I thought the dreamhack cup was super fun. I even got PyroJoe to try out comp with us since it was only a one day affair, but I'm not sure where I can find out information about upcoming cups for NA (if there's even any).

I thought the dreamhack cup was super fun. I even got PyroJoe to try out comp with us since it was only a one day affair, but I'm not sure where I can find out information about upcoming cups for NA (if there's even any).
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