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Tagg: Why I "Quit" TF2
posted in Videos
31
#31
10 Frags +

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32
#32
Essentials.tf
43 Frags +

TL;DR

  • I agree with a lot of what Tagg says, and personally I'm trying to distance myself from the scene for similar reasons.
  • The competitive scene is toxic. More than a substantial amount of people are incredibly discrimanatory or spread awful things about groups or individuals within the scene.
  • Volunteers are (perhaps unintentionally) taken for granted and the game has the tendency to have people burnout quickly and just picking new people up as replacements
  • In general, it's hard to justify putting effort into the scene, when you get nothing in return and people are rarely grateful outside of events.

I empathize a lot with this video, lots of what Tagg said in the video I can relate to (outside of the whole invite thing lol). Over time I've been trying to create distance between myself and the game/scene but it's almost like an addiction. I stopped enjoying the core game about a year and a half ago and planned to quit multiple times since then. Much like he mentioned in the video, I don't want this game to rule my life especially since more and more of my free time is being taken up by work. The only thing tying myself to this game at this point are friends and the fact it's quite easy to get experience in production etc.

The scene is toxic, end of. Whilst a decent amount of people are lovely, there are a concerning amount who are outwardly discriminatory or just assholes. In some groups that I am in I've heard some downright disgusting things said about groups of people and even individuals in the scene. I try to not take any personal offence to anything, but sometimes what people say brings back really unwelcome memories and makes me uncomfortable. It really puts me off meeting new people or joining new groups because I expect that they would be the same. The community 'tried' to address such toxicity, but just ended up with a private discord server where people try to agree that being toxic is bad and briefly discussing drama when it happens. No one really cares enough to actually do something. I'll admit I'm no saint myself; I've acted irresponsibly in the past and I am not proud of it. We all need to put a little bit of effort into making sure that people feel welcome.

This sort of brings up the point regarding productions. The unfortunate truth of the scene is that without volunteers, the competitive scene is screwed. The scene takes advantage of such volunteers, bleeding them dry until someone replaces them so we get to have a show. Many people who get into production or stuff like that do it out of love or appreciation of the community, but quickly become disillusioned; especially when people trash productions because it wasn't what they thought the production should be doing. It's really easy to shit on people when you aren't the guys behind the scenes. Every few years or so, the production setup has to start from scratch because the 'old guard' gets burned out or have to get actual jobs and if we don't actually start taking action it's going to happen again.

This is more just a personal vent than anything else, but a lot of the reasons why Tagg left the scene I also share with my own relationship with this game. Getting to see everyone at LAN have a great time and seeing your name in the credits of a production truly is one of the best feelings I've had, but every time an event comes around it becomes harder to justify investing so much time and effort into it. With the amount of time, financing, and detriment to my physical & mental health that such events have caused; it's frustrating when people act like complete pricks to one another, from both a personal and organisational level.

[b]TL;DR[/b]
[list]
[*] I agree with a lot of what Tagg says, and personally I'm trying to distance myself from the scene for similar reasons.
[*] The competitive scene is toxic. More than a substantial amount of people are incredibly discrimanatory or spread awful things about groups or individuals within the scene.
[*] Volunteers are (perhaps unintentionally) taken for granted and the game has the tendency to have people burnout quickly and just picking new people up as replacements
[*] In general, it's hard to justify putting effort into the scene, when you get nothing in return and people are rarely grateful outside of events.
[/list]

I empathize a lot with this video, lots of what Tagg said in the video I can relate to (outside of the whole invite thing lol). Over time I've been trying to create distance between myself and the game/scene but it's almost like an addiction. I stopped enjoying the core game about a year and a half ago and planned to quit multiple times since then. Much like he mentioned in the video, I don't want this game to rule my life especially since more and more of my free time is being taken up by work. The only thing tying myself to this game at this point are friends and the fact it's quite easy to get experience in production etc.

The scene is toxic, end of. Whilst a decent amount of people are lovely, there are a concerning amount who are outwardly discriminatory or just assholes. In some groups that I am in I've heard some downright disgusting things said about groups of people and even individuals in the scene. I try to not take any personal offence to anything, but sometimes what people say brings back really unwelcome memories and makes me uncomfortable. It really puts me off meeting new people or joining new groups because I expect that they would be the same. The community 'tried' to address such toxicity, but just ended up with a private discord server where people try to agree that being toxic is bad and briefly discussing drama when it happens. No one really cares enough to actually do something. I'll admit I'm no saint myself; I've acted irresponsibly in the past and I am not proud of it. We all need to put a little bit of effort into making sure that people feel welcome.

This sort of brings up the point regarding productions. The unfortunate truth of the scene is that without volunteers, the competitive scene is screwed. The scene takes advantage of such volunteers, bleeding them dry until someone replaces them so we get to have a show. Many people who get into production or stuff like that do it out of love or appreciation of the community, but quickly become disillusioned; especially when people trash productions because it wasn't what they thought the production should be doing. It's really easy to shit on people when you aren't the guys behind the scenes. Every few years or so, the production setup has to start from scratch because the 'old guard' gets burned out or have to get actual jobs and if we don't [b]actually[/b] start taking action it's going to happen again.

This is more just a personal vent than anything else, but a lot of the reasons why Tagg left the scene I also share with my own relationship with this game. Getting to see everyone at LAN have a great time and seeing your name in the credits of a production truly is one of the best feelings I've had, but every time an event comes around it becomes harder to justify investing so much time and effort into it. With the amount of time, financing, and detriment to my physical & mental health that such events have caused; it's frustrating when people act like complete pricks to one another, from both a personal and organisational level.
33
#33
14 Frags +
DrHappinessTL;DR
  • I agree with a lot of what Tagg says, and personally I'm trying to distance myself from the scene for similar reasons.
  • The competitive scene is toxic. More than a substantial amount of people are incredibly discrimanatory or spread awful things about groups or individuals within the scene.
  • Volunteers are (perhaps unintentionally) taken for granted and the game has the tendency to have people burnout quickly and just picking new people up as replacements
  • In general, it's hard to justify putting effort into the scene, when you get nothing in return and people are rarely grateful outside of events.

I emphasize a lot with this video, lots of what Tagg said in the video I can relate to (outside of the whole invite thing lol). Over time I've been trying to create distance between myself and the game/scene but it's almost like an addiction. I stopped enjoying the core game about a year and a half ago and planned to quit multiple times since then. Much like he mentioned in the video, I don't want this game to rule my life especially since more and more of my free time is being taken up by work. The only thing tying myself to this game at this point are friends and the fact it's quite easy to get experience in production etc.

The scene is toxic, end of. Whilst a decent amount of people are lovely, there are a concerning amount who are outwardly discriminatory or just assholes. In some groups that I am in I've heard some downright disgusting things said about groups of people and even individuals in the scene. I try to not take any personal offence to anything, but sometimes what people say brings back really unwelcome memories and makes me uncomfortable. It really puts me off meeting new people or joining new groups because I expect that they would be the same. The community 'tried' to address such toxicity, but just ended up with a private discord server where people try to agree that being toxic is bad and briefly discussing drama when it happens. No one really cares enough to actually do something. I'll admit I'm no saint myself; I've acted irresponsibly in the past and I am not proud of it. We all need to put a little bit of effort into making sure that people feel welcome.

This sort of brings up the point regarding productions. The unfortunate truth of the scene is that without volunteers, the competitive scene is screwed. The scene takes advantage of such volunteers, bleeding them dry until someone replaces them so we get to have a show. Many people who get into production or stuff like that do it out of love or appreciation of the community, but quickly become disillusioned; especially when people trash productions because it wasn't what they thought the production should be doing. It's really easy to shit on people when you aren't the guys behind the scenes. Every few years or so, the production setup has to start from scratch because the 'old guard' gets burned out or have to get actual jobs and if we don't actually start taking action it's going to happen again.

This is more just a personal vent than anything else, but a lot of the reasons why Tagg left the scene I also share with my own relationship with this game. Getting to see everyone at LAN have a great time and seeing your name in the credits of a production truly is one of the best feelings I've had, but every time an event comes around it becomes harder to justify investing so much time and effort into it. With the amount of time, financing, and detriment to my physical & mental health that such events have caused; it's frustrating when people act like complete pricks to one another, from both a personal and organisational level.

empathize*

[quote=DrHappiness][b]TL;DR[/b]
[list]
[*] I agree with a lot of what Tagg says, and personally I'm trying to distance myself from the scene for similar reasons.
[*] The competitive scene is toxic. More than a substantial amount of people are incredibly discrimanatory or spread awful things about groups or individuals within the scene.
[*] Volunteers are (perhaps unintentionally) taken for granted and the game has the tendency to have people burnout quickly and just picking new people up as replacements
[*] In general, it's hard to justify putting effort into the scene, when you get nothing in return and people are rarely grateful outside of events.
[/list]

I emphasize a lot with this video, lots of what Tagg said in the video I can relate to (outside of the whole invite thing lol). Over time I've been trying to create distance between myself and the game/scene but it's almost like an addiction. I stopped enjoying the core game about a year and a half ago and planned to quit multiple times since then. Much like he mentioned in the video, I don't want this game to rule my life especially since more and more of my free time is being taken up by work. The only thing tying myself to this game at this point are friends and the fact it's quite easy to get experience in production etc.

The scene is toxic, end of. Whilst a decent amount of people are lovely, there are a concerning amount who are outwardly discriminatory or just assholes. In some groups that I am in I've heard some downright disgusting things said about groups of people and even individuals in the scene. I try to not take any personal offence to anything, but sometimes what people say brings back really unwelcome memories and makes me uncomfortable. It really puts me off meeting new people or joining new groups because I expect that they would be the same. The community 'tried' to address such toxicity, but just ended up with a private discord server where people try to agree that being toxic is bad and briefly discussing drama when it happens. No one really cares enough to actually do something. I'll admit I'm no saint myself; I've acted irresponsibly in the past and I am not proud of it. We all need to put a little bit of effort into making sure that people feel welcome.

This sort of brings up the point regarding productions. The unfortunate truth of the scene is that without volunteers, the competitive scene is screwed. The scene takes advantage of such volunteers, bleeding them dry until someone replaces them so we get to have a show. Many people who get into production or stuff like that do it out of love or appreciation of the community, but quickly become disillusioned; especially when people trash productions because it wasn't what they thought the production should be doing. It's really easy to shit on people when you aren't the guys behind the scenes. Every few years or so, the production setup has to start from scratch because the 'old guard' gets burned out or have to get actual jobs and if we don't [b]actually[/b] start taking action it's going to happen again.

This is more just a personal vent than anything else, but a lot of the reasons why Tagg left the scene I also share with my own relationship with this game. Getting to see everyone at LAN have a great time and seeing your name in the credits of a production truly is one of the best feelings I've had, but every time an event comes around it becomes harder to justify investing so much time and effort into it. With the amount of time, financing, and detriment to my physical & mental health that such events have caused; it's frustrating when people act like complete pricks to one another, from both a personal and organisational level.[/quote]

empathize*
34
#34
Essentials.tf
9 Frags +
alec_empathize*

thanks. amended.
E: It seemed that I had that initial spelling added to my dictionary because I am an actual brainlet.

[quote=alec_]empathize*[/quote]
thanks. amended.
E: It seemed that I had that initial spelling added to my dictionary because I am an actual brainlet.
35
#35
33 Frags +

People don't even care about the game being toxic... i played a pug a while ago, and there was someone in the mumble being toxic/complaining the entire time, and when i told him to stop being a cunt everyone just laughed, makes me not wanna play this game

People don't even care about the game being toxic... i played a pug a while ago, and there was someone in the mumble being toxic/complaining the entire time, and when i told him to stop being a cunt everyone just laughed, makes me not wanna play this game
36
#36
16 Frags +

i feel like a lot of people (myself included) have lost the spark that inspired or brought us to comp tf2. i just remember having such fond memories playing on a team with new people, playing lobbies, inhouses, mixes, making new friends and meeting new people. im not sure whether im jaded, a fucking boomer, or there's not enough new faces, but god. the game feels so UNFUN without playing with my same friends, or playing in an in-house with only people i like. its like half the people who are so adamant about being good at this game are also the ones who ruin the fun by being racist, toxic, cheating, etc.

im not super sure what the point im trying to make is, but i just miss being a dumbass kid learning this game and making friends along the way. don't force yourself to play this game and chase that spark. sometimes it's best to leave those memories and nostalgia in the past.

i feel like a lot of people (myself included) have lost the spark that inspired or brought us to comp tf2. i just remember having such fond memories playing on a team with new people, playing lobbies, inhouses, mixes, making new friends and meeting new people. im not sure whether im jaded, a fucking boomer, or there's not enough new faces, but god. the game feels so UNFUN without playing with my same friends, or playing in an in-house with only people i like. its like half the people who are so adamant about being good at this game are also the ones who ruin the fun by being racist, toxic, cheating, etc.

im not super sure what the point im trying to make is, but i just miss being a dumbass kid learning this game and making friends along the way. don't force yourself to play this game and chase that spark. sometimes it's best to leave those memories and nostalgia in the past.
37
#37
-14 Frags +

I can't relate to the game being toxic at all. This seems to be something people love to bring up in the reddit/tf2tv drama threads, but in my experience it's just not true. My good memories vastly outnumber the bad ones as far as tf2 is concerned.

Maybe i'm just lucky or too tolerant of toxicity?

I can't relate to the game being toxic at all. This seems to be something people love to bring up in the reddit/tf2tv drama threads, but in my experience it's just not true. My good memories vastly outnumber the bad ones as far as tf2 is concerned.

Maybe i'm just lucky or too tolerant of toxicity?
38
#38
15 Frags +
indigosummeri feel like a lot of people (myself included) have lost the spark that inspired or brought us to comp tf2. i just remember having such fond memories playing on a team with new people, playing lobbies, inhouses, mixes, making new friends and meeting new people. im not sure whether im jaded, a fucking boomer, or there's not enough new faces, but god. the game feels so UNFUN without playing with my same friends, or playing in an in-house with only people i like. its like half the people who are so adamant about being good at this game are also the ones who ruin the fun by being racist, toxic, cheating, etc.

im not super sure what the point im trying to make is, but i just miss being a dumbass kid learning this game and making friends along the way. don't force yourself to play this game and chase that spark. sometimes it's best to leave those memories and nostalgia in the past.

people were toxic back then too it's just that the game was too fun for you to care. now that you've extracted most of the enjoyment you can out the game what's left is your grievances and qualms. it's normal to get bored of a game after literally thousands of hours of playtime. most people think playing a game for 300 hours is insane.

it starts getting tricky when people reach that point where it takes considerably more effort to climb the ladder. this is the point where a lot of people change their reasons for playing from learning/improving to winning because why dedicate so much effort if you're not going to win? this is a critical stage as it is very easy to stop seeing yourself as a student of the game and instead focus on the things you perceive as separating you from winning which usually manifests as blaming others. you become outcome dependent and keep your eyes on the finish line instead of what is right in front of you; your path to mastery, your teammates and your relationship with them – it is a form of desperation. at this you'll find yourself in a dark place where the game isn't fun, and everything feels like a grind with no light at the end of the tunnel; a trap that claims many.

[quote=indigosummer]i feel like a lot of people (myself included) have lost the spark that inspired or brought us to comp tf2. i just remember having such fond memories playing on a team with new people, playing lobbies, inhouses, mixes, making new friends and meeting new people. im not sure whether im jaded, a fucking boomer, or there's not enough new faces, but god. the game feels so UNFUN without playing with my same friends, or playing in an in-house with only people i like. its like half the people who are so adamant about being good at this game are also the ones who ruin the fun by being racist, toxic, cheating, etc.

im not super sure what the point im trying to make is, but i just miss being a dumbass kid learning this game and making friends along the way. don't force yourself to play this game and chase that spark. sometimes it's best to leave those memories and nostalgia in the past.[/quote]
people were toxic back then too it's just that the game was too fun for you to care. now that you've extracted most of the enjoyment you can out the game what's left is your grievances and qualms. it's normal to get bored of a game after literally thousands of hours of playtime. most people think playing a game for 300 hours is insane.

it starts getting tricky when people reach that point where it takes considerably more effort to climb the ladder. this is the point where a lot of people change their reasons for playing from learning/improving to winning because why dedicate so much effort if you're not going to win? this is a critical stage as it is very easy to stop seeing yourself as a student of the game and instead focus on the things you perceive as separating you from winning which usually manifests as blaming others. you become outcome dependent and keep your eyes on the finish line instead of what is right in front of you; your path to mastery, your teammates and your relationship with them – it is a form of desperation. at this you'll find yourself in a dark place where the game isn't fun, and everything feels like a grind with no light at the end of the tunnel; a trap that claims many.
39
#39
36 Frags +
DwapkingI can't relate to the game being toxic at all. This seems to be something people love to bring up in the reddit/tf2tv drama threads, but in my experience it's just not true. My good memories vastly outnumber the bad ones as far as tf2 is concerned.

Maybe i'm just lucky or too tolerant of toxicity?

The level of toxicity is heavily correlated with how far up the ladder you climb. It's not guaranteed that you'll have similarly bad experiences, but that chance goes up a LOT as you get into higher levels of play and therefore higher personal competitive drives.

Having said that, that's no excuse and I've always been astounded by how absolutely terrible many people can act when given a layer of anonymity and a lack of repercussions.

[quote=Dwapking]I can't relate to the game being toxic at all. This seems to be something people love to bring up in the reddit/tf2tv drama threads, but in my experience it's just not true. My good memories vastly outnumber the bad ones as far as tf2 is concerned.

Maybe i'm just lucky or too tolerant of toxicity?[/quote]

The level of toxicity is heavily correlated with how far up the ladder you climb. It's not guaranteed that you'll have similarly bad experiences, but that chance goes up a LOT as you get into higher levels of play and therefore higher personal competitive drives.

Having said that, that's no excuse and I've always been astounded by how absolutely terrible many people can act when given a layer of anonymity and a lack of repercussions.
40
#40
13 Frags +

such a small community, and the go-to strat of some people is to bully away the people that did the most for this game

such a small community, and the go-to strat of some people is to bully away the people that did the most for this game
41
#41
10 Frags +

man fuck narutoxsasuke12

man fuck narutoxsasuke12
42
#42
50 Frags +

The reason this scene is toxic is cause its filled with edgy children that spend all of their free time playing video games and as a result havent yet learned to behave like normal human beings.

The reason this scene is toxic is cause its filled with edgy children that spend all of their free time playing video games and as a result havent yet learned to behave like normal human beings.
43
#43
44 Frags +

Maybe I'm not the audience for that video, but my reaction after this video was : "so what ?"
Most of what he talks about in this video is, idk, irrelevant i feel like. This ain't to say that what happened to him his pointless, or that his experience with TF2 and its backstage are nothing, but the things he talked about the most are the less interesting to me.

He disliked the new meta ? Ok ? And ? There are many things in life that change, and you can like the change, adapt to the change or dislike them, there's no harm in it.

He paid out of his own pocket for events ? So did everyone. He was in negative after events ? So was everyone. I've attended a lot of lans, either in my country or abroad, both as players and staff, and not once I've been winning money at the end of it. Not once. I don't see many people in day-to-day life who make money out of their passion/hobby. Yes, most of what staff does on event requires a lot of work and dedication, and I'll always say staff doesnt get the light it should, but still, but you aren't forced to do it, and the skills you developped in that volunteering can serve toward academic/professional progression.

The things that he talked about that are actually important, I believe, he only briefly goes through them, as to not "cancel anyone". If people are acting like dicks, wouldn't it be better to actually speak loud about them rather than just touch it with the tip of your finger ? At this point, we all know who the bigh shot producer is, of course, but I sense a misbalance of what actually matters and stuff that are pretty basic.

Again, I'm probably not the audience for that video, as I don't watch his stream, don't follow him whatsoever, but for a 40 minutes long video, I expected to go out from it with more than I do.

Maybe I'm not the audience for that video, but my reaction after this video was : "so what ?"
Most of what he talks about in this video is, idk, irrelevant i feel like. This ain't to say that what happened to him his pointless, or that his experience with TF2 and its backstage are nothing, but the things he talked about the most are the less interesting to me.

He disliked the new meta ? Ok ? And ? There are many things in life that change, and you can like the change, adapt to the change or dislike them, there's no harm in it.

He paid out of his own pocket for events ? So did everyone. He was in negative after events ? So was everyone. I've attended a lot of lans, either in my country or abroad, both as players and staff, and not once I've been winning money at the end of it. Not once. I don't see many people in day-to-day life who make money out of their passion/hobby. Yes, most of what staff does on event requires a lot of work and dedication, and I'll always say staff doesnt get the light it should, but still, but you aren't forced to do it, and the skills you developped in that volunteering can serve toward academic/professional progression.

The things that he talked about that are actually important, I believe, he only briefly goes through them, as to not "cancel anyone". If people are acting like dicks, wouldn't it be better to actually speak loud about them rather than just touch it with the tip of your finger ? At this point, we all know who the bigh shot producer is, of course, but I sense a misbalance of what actually matters and stuff that are pretty basic.

Again, I'm probably not the audience for that video, as I don't watch his stream, don't follow him whatsoever, but for a 40 minutes long video, I expected to go out from it with more than I do.
44
#44
34 Frags +
OmbrackMaybe I'm not the audience for that video

i think so. everyone who browses tftv basically knows everything he said in the video (+ more from his tftv post), but he seems to be mostly explaining to the pubbers who know him from star vids/ huntsman hacks etc and keep begging him to play

[quote=Ombrack]Maybe I'm not the audience for that video[/quote]
i think so. everyone who browses tftv basically knows everything he said in the video (+ more from his tftv post), but he seems to be mostly explaining to the pubbers who know him from star vids/ huntsman hacks etc and keep begging him to play
45
#45
0 Frags +

im far from perfect but i have to say that everything tagg said about the experience of roaming for invite teams hit me hard and his validation kinda helped me find my validation

needless to say the things he said about this community are also very true and is a big factor in many people i know's declining motivation to play

i also really want to echo post 39 because tooth is speaking the trooth with his thoughts

toothThe level of toxicity is heavily correlated with how far up the ladder you climb. It's not guaranteed that you'll have similarly bad experiences, but that chance goes up a LOT as you get into higher levels of play and therefore higher personal competitive drives.

Having said that, that's no excuse and I've always been astounded by how absolutely terrible many people can act when given a layer of anonymity and a lack of repercussions.
im far from perfect but i have to say that everything tagg said about the experience of roaming for invite teams hit me hard and his validation kinda helped me find my validation

needless to say the things he said about this community are also very true and is a big factor in many people i know's declining motivation to play


i also really want to echo post 39 because tooth is speaking the trooth with his thoughts
[quote=tooth]
The level of toxicity is heavily correlated with how far up the ladder you climb. It's not guaranteed that you'll have similarly bad experiences, but that chance goes up a LOT as you get into higher levels of play and therefore higher personal competitive drives.

Having said that, that's no excuse and I've always been astounded by how absolutely terrible many people can act when given a layer of anonymity and a lack of repercussions.[/quote]
46
#46
28 Frags +
cinim far from perfect but i have to say that everything tagg said about the experience of roaming for invite teams hit me hard and his validation kinda helped me find my validation

needless to say the things he said about this community are also very true and is a big factor in many people i know's declining motivation to play

i also really want to echo post 39 because tooth is speaking the trooth with his thoughtstoothThe level of toxicity is heavily correlated with how far up the ladder you climb. It's not guaranteed that you'll have similarly bad experiences, but that chance goes up a LOT as you get into higher levels of play and therefore higher personal competitive drives.

Having said that, that's no excuse and I've always been astounded by how absolutely terrible many people can act when given a layer of anonymity and a lack of repercussions.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/654574576453287966/658041877433417728/unknown.png

[quote=cin]im far from perfect but i have to say that everything tagg said about the experience of roaming for invite teams hit me hard and his validation kinda helped me find my validation

needless to say the things he said about this community are also very true and is a big factor in many people i know's declining motivation to play


i also really want to echo post 39 because tooth is speaking the trooth with his thoughts
[quote=tooth]
The level of toxicity is heavily correlated with how far up the ladder you climb. It's not guaranteed that you'll have similarly bad experiences, but that chance goes up a LOT as you get into higher levels of play and therefore higher personal competitive drives.

Having said that, that's no excuse and I've always been astounded by how absolutely terrible many people can act when given a layer of anonymity and a lack of repercussions.[/quote][/quote]
[img]https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/654574576453287966/658041877433417728/unknown.png[/img]
47
#47
37 Frags +

damn why would ointf2 say that

damn why would ointf2 say that
48
#48
14 Frags +

Honestly, I completely understand what he means with the community being too circlejerky and hard to fit into. In my 6 years of playing 6s, I can count on 1 hand the decent, down to earth people that I've found. Way back when, it was more of an issue of people being young and toxic, bragging about who they beat in mge and what div they are, but nowadays as the game and the community have gotten older, everyone seems to be locked inside their own 5-10 person discord/mumble circlejerk, barely interacting with anyone outside of it. At least back when the game was bigger, you had a better chance of running into someone decent, but nowadays it seems most decent, well adjusted people have moved on from tf2 and most of what is left are the shitty people.

It's extremely depressing. I remember spamming f5 on tftv and actually enjoying the threads (dw i'm not new here), enjoying posting here, enjoying playing lobbies, tf2pickup, pubs, mixes, streams (especially sideshow). Nowadays, everything is shit. No one talks or tries in lobbies, mixes hardly ever happen, tftv is absolute garbage, pubs are garbage with people whining if you kill them or not talking at all..

I thought it was just an issue with myself, my time in this game having passed and whatnot, but the more i talk to people, the more i see that it's not just me, no one feels like they did a few years ago. Every aspect of the game seems desolate and just... wrong

Idek where I'm going with this, I might just be overdramatizing but I've slept for 2h total the past 2 nights so enjoy my word soup rant

Honestly, I completely understand what he means with the community being too circlejerky and hard to fit into. In my 6 years of playing 6s, I can count on 1 hand the decent, down to earth people that I've found. Way back when, it was more of an issue of people being young and toxic, bragging about who they beat in mge and what div they are, but nowadays as the game and the community have gotten older, everyone seems to be locked inside their own 5-10 person discord/mumble circlejerk, barely interacting with anyone outside of it. At least back when the game was bigger, you had a better chance of running into someone decent, but nowadays it seems most decent, well adjusted people have moved on from tf2 and most of what is left are the shitty people.

It's extremely depressing. I remember spamming f5 on tftv and actually enjoying the threads ([url=https://www.teamfortress.tv/user/Sentinel]dw i'm not new here[/url]), enjoying posting here, enjoying playing lobbies, tf2pickup, pubs, mixes, streams (especially sideshow). Nowadays, everything is shit. No one talks or tries in lobbies, mixes hardly ever happen, tftv is absolute garbage, pubs are garbage with people whining if you kill them or not talking at all..

I thought it was just an issue with myself, my time in this game having passed and whatnot, but the more i talk to people, the more i see that it's not just me, no one feels like they did a few years ago. Every aspect of the game seems desolate and just... wrong

Idek where I'm going with this, I might just be overdramatizing but I've slept for 2h total the past 2 nights so enjoy my word soup rant
49
#49
-14 Frags +
Reerocinim far from perfect but i have to say that everything tagg said about the experience of roaming for invite teams hit me hard and his validation kinda helped me find my validation

needless to say the things he said about this community are also very true and is a big factor in many people i know's declining motivation to play

i also really want to echo post 39 because tooth is speaking the trooth with his thoughtstoothThe level of toxicity is heavily correlated with how far up the ladder you climb. It's not guaranteed that you'll have similarly bad experiences, but that chance goes up a LOT as you get into higher levels of play and therefore higher personal competitive drives.

Having said that, that's no excuse and I've always been astounded by how absolutely terrible many people can act when given a layer of anonymity and a lack of repercussions.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/654574576453287966/658041877433417728/unknown.png

no denying i did that like i said far from perfect though that was admittedly unrelated to the game
e: for a little elaboration i am not denying i have been part of the problem over the years just also emphasizing that what tagg and tooth said is true. i am trying to do better about not projecting my frustrations outward and that's all i can say

[quote=Reero][quote=cin]im far from perfect but i have to say that everything tagg said about the experience of roaming for invite teams hit me hard and his validation kinda helped me find my validation

needless to say the things he said about this community are also very true and is a big factor in many people i know's declining motivation to play


i also really want to echo post 39 because tooth is speaking the trooth with his thoughts
[quote=tooth]
The level of toxicity is heavily correlated with how far up the ladder you climb. It's not guaranteed that you'll have similarly bad experiences, but that chance goes up a LOT as you get into higher levels of play and therefore higher personal competitive drives.

Having said that, that's no excuse and I've always been astounded by how absolutely terrible many people can act when given a layer of anonymity and a lack of repercussions.[/quote][/quote]
[img]https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/654574576453287966/658041877433417728/unknown.png[/img][/quote]
no denying i did that like i said far from perfect though that was admittedly unrelated to the game
e: for a little elaboration i am not denying i have been part of the problem over the years just also emphasizing that what tagg and tooth said is true. i am trying to do better about not projecting my frustrations outward and that's all i can say
50
#50
-20 Frags +
DrHappiness

This perfectly illustrates exactly how I feel also, thank you for this well written piece doc.

[quote=DrHappiness][/quote]

This perfectly illustrates exactly how I feel also, thank you for this well written piece doc.
51
#51
-4 Frags +

If any other streamer other than tagg said that one of the reasons why they quit tf2 was that they didn't get a community weapon or that his stream chat were annoying, or that unlocks, which needed to be nerfed, were nerfed, people wouldn't have been so supportive, don't you think?
Don't get me wrong, I get it, tagg has done a lot of thankless work, and it's 100% justified for him to quit, but some of his arguments are just garbage. Like, you're complaining about circlejerks in an online team based game. That shit is just inevitable. Do you think it's ONLY TF2 that has this issue? Or huntsman not killing a scout 1 bodyshot, (as it was probably intended). In the end, his video says what has to be said, but some parts of it are just unnecessary and it feels like they're just there to cast more aspersions on tf2.

If any other streamer other than tagg said that one of the reasons why they quit tf2 was that they didn't get a community weapon or that his stream chat were annoying, or that unlocks, which needed to be nerfed, were nerfed, people wouldn't have been so supportive, don't you think?
Don't get me wrong, I get it, tagg has done a lot of thankless work, and it's 100% justified for him to quit, but some of his arguments are just garbage. Like, you're complaining about circlejerks in an online team based game. That shit is just inevitable. Do you think it's ONLY TF2 that has this issue? Or huntsman not killing a scout 1 bodyshot, (as it was probably intended). In the end, his video says what has to be said, but some parts of it are just unnecessary and it feels like they're just there to cast more aspersions on tf2.
52
#52
7 Frags +
Sylent

Yep after I was ddos'd during Open Grand Finals back in like season 13 I was cut from Street Hoops. Getting back into the game and finding another team was difficult. A huge part of my decision to just pretty much quit playing comp at that point was how frankly circlejerky and shitty everyone is to each other in the community. I was put the wringer a few times over just being a goofy dude while people who called other people the n word for fun were just pooh-pooh'd away as trolls who were never turned away from pugs no matter how toxic they were.

[quote=Sylent][/quote]

Yep after I was ddos'd during Open Grand Finals back in like season 13 I was cut from Street Hoops. Getting back into the game and finding another team was difficult. A huge part of my decision to just pretty much quit playing comp at that point was how frankly circlejerky and shitty everyone is to each other in the community. I was put the wringer a few times over just being a goofy dude while people who called other people the n word for fun were just pooh-pooh'd away as trolls who were never turned away from pugs no matter how toxic they were.
53
#53
9 Frags +
HerpTimIf any other streamer other than tagg said that one of the reasons why they quit tf2 was that they didn't get a community weapon or that his stream chat were annoying, or that unlocks, which needed to be nerfed, were nerfed, people wouldn't have been so supportive, don't you think?
Don't get me wrong, I get it, tagg has done a lot of thankless work, and it's 100% justified for him to quit, but some of his arguments are just garbage. Like, you're complaining about circlejerks in an online team based game. That shit is just inevitable. Do you think it's ONLY TF2 that has this issue? Or huntsman not killing a scout 1 bodyshot, (as it was probably intended). In the end, his video says what has to be said, but some parts of it are just unnecessary and it feels like they're just there to cast more aspersions on tf2.

dont comment if youre basing 100% of your understanding on the tldr

[quote=HerpTim]If any other streamer other than tagg said that one of the reasons why they quit tf2 was that they didn't get a community weapon or that his stream chat were annoying, or that unlocks, which needed to be nerfed, were nerfed, people wouldn't have been so supportive, don't you think?
Don't get me wrong, I get it, tagg has done a lot of thankless work, and it's 100% justified for him to quit, but some of his arguments are just garbage. Like, you're complaining about circlejerks in an online team based game. That shit is just inevitable. Do you think it's ONLY TF2 that has this issue? Or huntsman not killing a scout 1 bodyshot, (as it was probably intended). In the end, his video says what has to be said, but some parts of it are just unnecessary and it feels like they're just there to cast more aspersions on tf2.[/quote]
dont comment if youre basing 100% of your understanding on the tldr
54
#54
5 Frags +

narutoxsasuke12 and timmy200 seem like some perturbed individuals.

narutoxsasuke12 and timmy200 seem like some perturbed individuals.
55
#55
18 Frags +

Whenever I think of community weapons I am reminded that thenoid had his rocket launcher renamed "uncle noid's <funny word> knocker" for years with valve just being ok with it.

Whenever I think of community weapons I am reminded that thenoid had his rocket launcher renamed "uncle noid's <funny word> knocker" for years with valve just being ok with it.
56
#56
13 Frags +
OmbrackMaybe I'm not the audience for that video, but my reaction after this video was : "so what ?"
Most of what he talks about in this video is, idk, irrelevant i feel like. This ain't to say that what happened to him his pointless, or that his experience with TF2 and its backstage are nothing, but the things he talked about the most are the less interesting to me.

He disliked the new meta ? Ok ? And ? There are many things in life that change, and you can like the change, adapt to the change or dislike them, there's no harm in it.

He paid out of his own pocket for events ? So did everyone. He was in negative after events ? So was everyone. I've attended a lot of lans, either in my country or abroad, both as players and staff, and not once I've been winning money at the end of it. Not once. I don't see many people in day-to-day life who make money out of their passion/hobby. Yes, most of what staff does on event requires a lot of work and dedication, and I'll always say staff doesnt get the light it should, but still, but you aren't forced to do it, and the skills you developped in that volunteering can serve toward academic/professional progression.

The things that he talked about that are actually important, I believe, he only briefly goes through them, as to not "cancel anyone". If people are acting like dicks, wouldn't it be better to actually speak loud about them rather than just touch it with the tip of your finger ? At this point, we all know who the bigh shot producer is, of course, but I sense a misbalance of what actually matters and stuff that are pretty basic.

Again, I'm probably not the audience for that video, as I don't watch his stream, don't follow him whatsoever, but for a 40 minutes long video, I expected to go out from it with more than I do.

I see what you’re saying but I also don’t think the primary purpose of the video was to create a trenchant or incisive commentary about anything within TF2 more broadly. Tagg was a big name player who quit the game and was inundated with requests either to play it again when he didn’t want to, or from people who kept asking him why he left in the first place. This is that explanation. The reason I don’t think it makes any sense for him to call out people by name in the video is because that isn’t the purpose of the video at all. It’s a personal explanation as to why he quit so that other people can understand. I think requesting that he call out those people and start more drama would just bring him back into the toxic mess he spent forty minutes explaining that he wanted to leave.

The only thing that matters is that tagg explained they situation as he personally saw fit to do, and that’s exactly what he did.

[quote=Ombrack]Maybe I'm not the audience for that video, but my reaction after this video was : "so what ?"
Most of what he talks about in this video is, idk, irrelevant i feel like. This ain't to say that what happened to him his pointless, or that his experience with TF2 and its backstage are nothing, but the things he talked about the most are the less interesting to me.

He disliked the new meta ? Ok ? And ? There are many things in life that change, and you can like the change, adapt to the change or dislike them, there's no harm in it.

He paid out of his own pocket for events ? So did everyone. He was in negative after events ? So was everyone. I've attended a lot of lans, either in my country or abroad, both as players and staff, and not once I've been winning money at the end of it. Not once. I don't see many people in day-to-day life who make money out of their passion/hobby. Yes, most of what staff does on event requires a lot of work and dedication, and I'll always say staff doesnt get the light it should, but still, but you aren't forced to do it, and the skills you developped in that volunteering can serve toward academic/professional progression.

The things that he talked about that are actually important, I believe, he only briefly goes through them, as to not "cancel anyone". If people are acting like dicks, wouldn't it be better to actually speak loud about them rather than just touch it with the tip of your finger ? At this point, we all know who the bigh shot producer is, of course, but I sense a misbalance of what actually matters and stuff that are pretty basic.

Again, I'm probably not the audience for that video, as I don't watch his stream, don't follow him whatsoever, but for a 40 minutes long video, I expected to go out from it with more than I do.[/quote]
I see what you’re saying but I also don’t think the primary purpose of the video was to create a trenchant or incisive commentary about anything within TF2 more broadly. Tagg was a big name player who quit the game and was inundated with requests either to play it again when he didn’t want to, or from people who kept asking him why he left in the first place. This is that explanation. The reason I don’t think it makes any sense for him to call out people by name in the video is because that isn’t the purpose of the video at all. It’s a personal explanation as to why he quit so that other people can understand. I think requesting that he call out those people and start more drama would just bring him back into the toxic mess he spent forty minutes explaining that he wanted to leave.

The only thing that matters is that tagg explained they situation as he personally saw fit to do, and that’s exactly what he did.
57
#57
6 Frags +

No one should ever have to spend time justifying why they left a one sided abusive relationship. Unfortunately for most, that's what tf2 was.

No one should ever have to spend time justifying why they left a one sided abusive relationship. Unfortunately for most, that's what tf2 was.
58
#58
-6 Frags +
THEBILLDOZERBarryChucklethat hard-r at LAN was tf2's all-time biggest yikes momentdare i say the pedophilia was worse

I've been outta the community for a good long while now someone wanna fill me in on what the fuck

[quote=THEBILLDOZER][quote=BarryChuckle]that hard-r at LAN was tf2's all-time biggest yikes moment[/quote]
dare i say the pedophilia was worse[/quote]

I've been outta the community for a good long while now someone wanna fill me in on what the fuck
59
#59
-4 Frags +

lock imminent

lock imminent
60
#60
22 Frags +
cheeseboyTHEBILLDOZERBarryChucklethat hard-r at LAN was tf2's all-time biggest yikes momentdare i say the pedophilia was worse
I've been outta the community for a good long while now someone wanna fill me in on what the fuck

sorry to break it to you but your nation is riddled with nonces

[quote=cheeseboy][quote=THEBILLDOZER][quote=BarryChuckle]that hard-r at LAN was tf2's all-time biggest yikes moment[/quote]
dare i say the pedophilia was worse[/quote]

I've been outta the community for a good long while now someone wanna fill me in on what the fuck[/quote]
sorry to break it to you but your nation is riddled with nonces
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