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can we ban most unlocks yet?
posted in Q/A Help
31
#31
4 Frags +

Bork!

Bork!
32
#32
41 Frags +

Everytime we have a thread like this I feel like the vast majority of peole agrees on banning most unlocks and then nothing happens.

Everytime we have a thread like this I feel like the vast majority of peole agrees on banning most unlocks and then nothing happens.
33
#33
2 Frags +

bork

bork
34
#34
-4 Frags +
AmarokEverytime we have a thread like this I feel like the vast majority of peole agrees on banning most unlocks and then nothing happens.

HL admins

[quote=Amarok]Everytime we have a thread like this I feel like the vast majority of peole agrees on banning most unlocks and then nothing happens.[/quote]

HL admins
35
#35
-1 Frags +

Correct me if im wrong but wasnt the reason behind unbanning unlocks not to get valves attention, but to make the competitive scene more appealing to the average player?
Ill be the devils advocate and say that not banning every single unlock and banning only the really broken ones was a good move. What item are people even having problems with? If its that game ruining why dont we just ban it? Because most of the unlocks arent even used.
If its arrows, i think that they probably heal for too much and theres no reason for them to build uber, but at the same time i like that the medic has more mechanical skill to him.

Correct me if im wrong but wasnt the reason behind unbanning unlocks not to get valves attention, but to make the competitive scene more appealing to the average player?
Ill be the devils advocate and say that not banning every single unlock and banning only the really broken ones was a good move. What item are people even having problems with? If its that game ruining why dont we just ban it? Because most of the unlocks arent even used.
If its arrows, i think that they probably heal for too much and theres no reason for them to build uber, but at the same time i like that the medic has more mechanical skill to him.
36
#36
7 Frags +
MarxistI would be completely in favor of banning arrows here is why:

A *primary* part of playing medic, and in fact an intrinsic design decision that was made in the beta, was the concept of "critical" aka "kritz" heals. It encourages players who are hurt to back up and wait a moment before going in again as opposed to dying and waiting for respawn.

Arrows completely break that entire mechanic by allowing you to heal for absurd amounts to anybody who can stand still for a fraction of a second. The problem that it introduces into comp is that it makes it a lot easier to escape situations where you should certainly die by standing still for a bit, especially if there is some cover nearby. It also breaks up transition fights because the medic can ignore kritz heal and just arrow everybody to full in a greatly reduced period of time relative to the slowest heal rate.

The fact that they also screw up uber timings is also damaging to the game because it screws up one of the primary assumptions that people make when playing. /

I'm not totally opposed to arrows, and I'm not totally opposed to them granting *some* healing, but they should fire much more slowly and provide much less healing, and until they do that it's just silliness.

Not to mention that they also make playing as a team more difficult because peoples' health numbers can change tremendously just by taking an unseen arrow (making soldier more difficult, since your sacrifices are often reduced to nothing in a matter of seconds as long as a medic player can hit an arrow). In ye olden days if you would get something out of comming damage numbers, because you knew how much HP x person had and could try to block their access to healthpacks or their medic. But now they can just shoot an arrow from relative safety and their buddy gets 60+ hps.

I feel that arrows make medic a lot more fun, but a huge problem to me is how awful the alternatives are.

I'd probably remove the reloading whilst the xbow isn't equipped and increase the fire rate. (Hopefully nerf arrow building)

The other weapons require a lot more tweaking which could then lead to more xbow needs but still help keep medic fun to play.

I have a document in this for a video but i still haven't made it. xD

[quote=Marxist]I would be completely in favor of banning arrows here is why:

A *primary* part of playing medic, and in fact an intrinsic design decision that was made in the beta, was the concept of "critical" aka "kritz" heals. It encourages players who are hurt to back up and wait a moment before going in again as opposed to dying and waiting for respawn.

Arrows completely break that entire mechanic by allowing you to heal for absurd amounts to anybody who can stand still for a fraction of a second. The problem that it introduces into comp is that it makes it a lot easier to escape situations where you should certainly die by standing still for a bit, especially if there is some cover nearby. It also breaks up transition fights because the medic can ignore kritz heal and just arrow everybody to full in a greatly reduced period of time relative to the slowest heal rate.

The fact that they also screw up uber timings is also damaging to the game because it screws up one of the primary assumptions that people make when playing. /

I'm not totally opposed to arrows, and I'm not totally opposed to them granting *some* healing, but they should fire much more slowly and provide much less healing, and until they do that it's just silliness.

Not to mention that they also make playing as a team more difficult because peoples' health numbers can change tremendously just by taking an unseen arrow (making soldier more difficult, since your sacrifices are often reduced to nothing in a matter of seconds as long as a medic player can hit an arrow). In ye olden days if you would get something out of comming damage numbers, because you knew how much HP x person had and could try to block their access to healthpacks or their medic. But now they can just shoot an arrow from relative safety and their buddy gets 60+ hps.[/quote]

I feel that arrows make medic a lot more fun, but a huge problem to me is how awful the alternatives are.

I'd probably remove the reloading whilst the xbow isn't equipped and increase the fire rate. (Hopefully nerf arrow building)

The other weapons require a lot more tweaking which could then lead to more xbow needs but still help keep medic fun to play.

I have a document in this for a video but i still haven't made it. xD
37
#37
24 Frags +

I was getting a lobby demo that didn't play in 2 years for my Fresh Meat team but when he saw the global whitelist he uninstalled the game.
THANKS WHITELIST

oyeaCorrect me if im wrong but wasnt the reason behind unbanning unlocks not to get valves attention, but to make the competitive scene more appealing to the average player?
Ill be the devils advocate and say that not banning every single unlock and banning only the really broken ones was a good move. What item are people even having problems with? If its that game ruining why dont we just ban it? Because most of the unlocks arent even used.
If its arrows, i think that they probably heal for too much and theres no reason for them to build uber, but at the same time i like that the medic has more mechanical skill to him.

the pubbers that complain that 6v6 is stale and bans most weapons will find another excuse to dislike the gamemode, or their favorite youtubers will give them one.

I was getting a lobby demo that didn't play in 2 years for my Fresh Meat team but when he saw the global whitelist he uninstalled the game.
THANKS WHITELIST

[quote=oyea]Correct me if im wrong but wasnt the reason behind unbanning unlocks not to get valves attention, but to make the competitive scene more appealing to the average player?
Ill be the devils advocate and say that not banning every single unlock and banning only the really broken ones was a good move. What item are people even having problems with? If its that game ruining why dont we just ban it? Because most of the unlocks arent even used.
If its arrows, i think that they probably heal for too much and theres no reason for them to build uber, but at the same time i like that the medic has more mechanical skill to him.[/quote]
the pubbers that complain that 6v6 is stale and bans most weapons will find another excuse to dislike the gamemode, or their favorite youtubers will give them one.
38
#38
22 Frags +
WARHURYEAHI feel that arrows make medic a lot more fun, but a huge problem to me is how awful the alternatives are.

I'd probably remove the reloading whilst the xbow isn't equipped and increase the fire rate. (Hopefully nerf arrow building)

The other weapons require a lot more tweaking which could then lead to more xbow needs but still help keep medic fun to play.

I have a document in this for a video but i still haven't made it. xD

nerf reload speed? this again?
I'm gonna go ahead and quote myself here since its relevant to this xbow problem

CondoMWhat? Remove the passive reload of xbow? Why?

The problem with crossbow is the random long range instant +130 hp and close range instant +75 hp. It's like a large health pack on demand.
It usually just ends up punishing a player for following up on damage which makes fights way more unpredictable and random.

Make it heal way less in close range, a bit less on medium/long range and dos it over a good second or two.
Still viable for healing players not in range and to heal and build uber when there's no one in range of your medigun. All that without breaking fights and being more effective in all ways than medigun.

I've also mentioned this beforeCondoMIn my honest opinion, crossbow should be banned as well. It's a horribly designed weapon and I feel it does more harm than good.

With that said - I love using it. It adds lots of depth, challenge and fun factor to the medic class.
Unfortunately the ability to instantly heal teammates for +100 hp at medium-long range is simply broken. It's even gotten to the point where its better than using medigun; pulling out the crossbow at close-medium range heals more and faster than using the medigun.
Considering the wonky hit detection/netcode/whatever as well, using the crossbow at close range during combat can be the most painful experience in this game. Yet that is by far the most rewarding and simultaneously most punishing situation to use it.

It needs to heal way less and/or over time before it should be allowed.

of course the concept of the crossbow is terrific and it will never be realistically banned but it definitely needs a big fat nerf
[quote=WARHURYEAH]
I feel that arrows make medic a lot more fun, but a huge problem to me is how awful the alternatives are.

I'd probably remove the reloading whilst the xbow isn't equipped and increase the fire rate. (Hopefully nerf arrow building)

The other weapons require a lot more tweaking which could then lead to more xbow needs but still help keep medic fun to play.

I have a document in this for a video but i still haven't made it. xD[/quote]
nerf reload speed? this again?
I'm gonna go ahead and quote myself here since its relevant to this xbow problem
[quote=CondoM]What? Remove the passive reload of xbow? Why?

The problem with crossbow is the random long range instant +130 hp and close range instant +75 hp. It's like a large health pack on demand.
It usually just ends up punishing a player for following up on damage which makes fights way more unpredictable and random.

Make it heal way less in close range, a bit less on medium/long range and dos it over a good second or two.
Still viable for healing players not in range and to heal and build uber when there's no one in range of your medigun. All that without breaking fights and being more effective in all ways than medigun.

I've also mentioned this before
[quote=CondoM]In my honest opinion, crossbow should be banned as well. It's a horribly designed weapon and I feel it does more harm than good.

With that said - I love using it. It adds lots of depth, challenge and fun factor to the medic class.
Unfortunately the ability to instantly heal teammates for +100 hp at medium-long range is simply broken. It's even gotten to the point where its better than using medigun; pulling out the crossbow at close-medium range heals more and faster than using the medigun.
Considering the wonky hit detection/netcode/whatever as well, using the crossbow at close range during combat can be the most painful experience in this game. Yet that is by far the most rewarding and simultaneously most punishing situation to use it.

It needs to heal way less and/or over time before it should be allowed.


of course the concept of the crossbow is terrific and it will never be realistically banned but it definitely needs a big fat nerf[/quote][/quote]
39
#39
21 Frags +

Changing the crossbow like condom said would also be good in ultiduo so I agree with that :)

Not that it fucking matters because valve wont change it xD

Changing the crossbow like condom said would also be good in ultiduo so I agree with that :)

Not that it fucking matters because valve wont change it xD
40
#40
15 Frags +

Would actually be nice to see why for example ETF2L admins feel the need to look at all the weapons and wonder what's annoying as fuck or frustrating to play against but not op and unban them. These threads have been done quite many times at this point, and while I can't assume they read these threads, I just fail to understand what motivates them to try unban all the retarded unlocks, if not the naive thought that when they unban weapons Valve will balance the weapons and give us a major pool tournament, I don't get it.
And even if it actually made Valve to balance the weapons, what does it matter when they have no clue how to balance them.

tl;dr: Unbanning useless/frustrating unlocks ≠ pool with major prize money
Unbanning useless/frustrating unlocks = lowered quality of tf2 gameplay and life and still no pool tournament

Would actually be nice to see why for example ETF2L admins feel the need to look at all the weapons and wonder what's annoying as fuck or frustrating to play against but not op and unban them. These threads have been done quite many times at this point, and while I can't assume they read these threads, I just fail to understand what motivates them to try unban all the retarded unlocks, if not the naive thought that when they unban weapons Valve will balance the weapons and give us a major pool tournament, I don't get it.
And even if it actually made Valve to balance the weapons, what does it matter when they have no clue how to balance them.

tl;dr: Unbanning useless/frustrating unlocks ≠ pool with major prize money
Unbanning useless/frustrating unlocks = lowered quality of tf2 gameplay and life and still no pool tournament
41
#41
34 Frags +

theres no point in discussing theoretical stat changes to weapons unless we are developing a promod. we need to decide if things should be banned or not based on their current stats.

theres no point in discussing theoretical stat changes to weapons unless we are developing a promod. we need to decide if things should be banned or not based on their current stats.
42
#42
21 Frags +

I really like the stickies that blow up the enemies stickies, those r really cool and fun

I really like the stickies that blow up the enemies stickies, those r really cool and fun
43
#43
4 Frags +

doing 300 dmg to a demo who's out of reach of his med and I die and not the demo is the most infurating thing I've had to deal with in the last month of playing TF2 and I just played hl for almost 9hrs on sunday. I don't want to necessarily see a ban for the xbow but it's not like it's going to get its heal rate and uber charge rate nerfed.

doing 300 dmg to a demo who's out of reach of his med and I die and not the demo is the most infurating thing I've had to deal with in the last month of playing TF2 and I just played hl for almost 9hrs on sunday. I don't want to necessarily see a ban for the xbow but it's not like it's going to get its heal rate and uber charge rate nerfed.
44
#44
-19 Frags +

iron bomber is straight up just an upgraded version of stock and yet everyone wants it in

iron bomber is straight up just an upgraded version of stock and yet everyone wants it in
45
#45
8 Frags +
dizastairon bomber is straight up just an upgraded version of stock and yet everyone wants it in

whats the upgraded stat of the iron bomber?

[quote=dizasta]iron bomber is straight up just an upgraded version of stock and yet everyone wants it in[/quote]

whats the upgraded stat of the iron bomber?
46
#46
47 Frags +

Can you please ban the vaccinator? Our medic 'Serotone' says it's too difficult for him to use so it's unfair that every other team can use it to hold lasts and we can't because we have a disabled player. Thank you.

Can you please ban the vaccinator? Our medic 'Serotone' says it's too difficult for him to use so it's unfair that every other team can use it to hold lasts and we can't because we have a disabled player. Thank you.
47
#47
14 Frags +

the issue with the crossbow is the ridiculous amount of changes its gotten to the point where power creep looms over the medic primary slot

June 27, 2012 Patch (Pyromania Update)
Reload speed time reduced by +40%.

October 29, 2013 Patch (Scream Fortress 2013)
Medic's Crusader's Crossbow now silently reloads when unholstered, similar to Pyro's Flare Gun.
[Undocumented] Increased the size of the Crusader's Crossbow projectile.

November 1, 2013 Patch
Fixed an exploit related to switching weapons.
Changed attributes:
Reduced damage from 75 to 50.
Lower reload time from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds.

November 21, 2013 Patch
Updated damage over distance: bolts now do a maximum of 75 damage (+variance) at max distance.

December 17, 2015 Patch (Tough Break Update)
Changed attribute:
Healing a player with a syringe now grants a small amount of ÜberCharge.

so its had its reload time go from 5 to 1.5 as it originally had 5 second reload time before pyromania.
it also had a smaller projectile previously, it gained the ability to build uber and has passive reload.
the only real downside its gained is slightly sharper damage/healing falloff but it can still do the same max as it use to at longer ranges.

the issue with the crossbow is the ridiculous amount of changes its gotten to the point where power creep looms over the medic primary slot

June 27, 2012 Patch (Pyromania Update)
Reload speed time reduced by +40%.

October 29, 2013 Patch (Scream Fortress 2013)
Medic's Crusader's Crossbow now silently reloads when unholstered, similar to Pyro's Flare Gun.
[Undocumented] Increased the size of the Crusader's Crossbow projectile.

November 1, 2013 Patch
Fixed an exploit related to switching weapons.
Changed attributes:
Reduced damage from 75 to 50.
Lower reload time from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds.

November 21, 2013 Patch
Updated damage over distance: bolts now do a maximum of 75 damage (+variance) at max distance.

December 17, 2015 Patch (Tough Break Update)
Changed attribute:
Healing a player with a syringe now grants a small amount of ÜberCharge.


so its had its reload time go from 5 to 1.5 as it originally had 5 second reload time before pyromania.
it also had a smaller projectile previously, it gained the ability to build uber and has passive reload.
the only real downside its gained is slightly sharper damage/healing falloff but it can still do the same max as it use to at longer ranges.
48
#48
0 Frags +

what if consecutive arrows did less and less heals or arrows are affected by critheals

what if consecutive arrows did less and less heals or arrows are affected by critheals
49
#49
1 Frags +

As someone who only started playing after the crossbow was added, what was different before?

As someone who only started playing after the crossbow was added, what was different before?
50
#50
22 Frags +

Meds ran needles instead. TBH needles are way more fun to play with, and they can actually give the med a surprising amount of firepower on lasts and when running away. Gone are the days where we see a med get a solo 3k to win last.

Meds ran needles instead. TBH needles are way more fun to play with, and they can actually give the med a surprising amount of firepower on lasts and when running away. Gone are the days where we see a med get a solo 3k to win last.
51
#51
2 Frags +

crossbow should be banned in ultiduo at the least i hate hitting airshots that get instantly negated.

crossbow should be banned in ultiduo at the least i hate hitting airshots that get instantly negated.
52
#52
30 Frags +
MarxistI would be completely in favor of banning arrows here is why:

*Marxist Casting*

"Oh man! Rando got destroyed by that double airshot, but it doesn't matter with a quick crossbow from cookiejake."

[quote=Marxist]I would be completely in favor of banning arrows here is why: [/quote]

*Marxist Casting*

"Oh man! Rando got destroyed by that double airshot, but it doesn't matter with a quick crossbow from cookiejake."
53
#53
0 Frags +
CondoMover a good second or two.

In a hypothetical scenario where this change is implemented, would taking damage cancel the crossbow healing? Would being on crit heals also affect the crossbow?

[quote=CondoM]over a good second or two.[/quote]
In a hypothetical scenario where this change is implemented, would taking damage cancel the crossbow healing? Would being on crit heals also affect the crossbow?
54
#54
50 Frags +
SlicerogueMarxistI would be completely in favor of banning arrows here is why:
*Marxist Casting*

"Oh man! Rando got destroyed by that double airshot, but it doesn't matter with a quick crossbow from cookiejake."

I know that never happened because cookiejake misses all his arrows

[quote=Slicerogue][quote=Marxist]I would be completely in favor of banning arrows here is why: [/quote]

*Marxist Casting*

"Oh man! Rando got destroyed by that double airshot, but it doesn't matter with a quick crossbow from cookiejake."[/quote]

I know that never happened because cookiejake misses all his arrows
55
#55
30 Frags +
randoI know that never happened because cookiejake misses all his arrows

He was aiming for garbuglio.

[quote=rando]
I know that never happened because cookiejake misses all his arrows[/quote]

He was aiming for garbuglio.
56
#56
22 Frags +
Tino_Gone are the days where we see a med get a solo 3k to win last.

https://clips.twitch.tv/FitGloriousHamsterPastaThat
-__-

[quote=Tino_]Gone are the days where we see a med get a solo 3k to win last.[/quote]
https://clips.twitch.tv/FitGloriousHamsterPastaThat
-__-
57
#57
28 Frags +

I'm still shocked that I'm allowed to run machina and jarate

I'm still shocked that I'm allowed to run machina and jarate
58
#58
9 Frags +

Maybe this is a noob question, but why do we need to ban the useless unlocks as well ?

Maybe this is a noob question, but why do we need to ban the useless unlocks as well ?
59
#59
-8 Frags +
AelkyrMaybe this is a noob question, but why do we need to ban the useless unlocks as well ?

to make sure no one uses them. the useless unlocks will inevitably be used for the sole purpose of being a cheese play.

[quote=Aelkyr]Maybe this is a noob question, but why do we need to ban the useless unlocks as well ?[/quote]
to make sure no one uses them. the useless unlocks will inevitably be used for the sole purpose of being a cheese play.
60
#60
4 Frags +
tojoI really like the stickies that blow up the enemies stickies, those r really cool and fun

me too my dude

[quote=tojo]I really like the stickies that blow up the enemies stickies, those r really cool and fun[/quote]

me too my dude
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