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Thoughts on new RGL ping guidelines?
31
#31
RGL.gg
24 Frags +

To be clear, there are no new "RGL ping guidelines". There are no new ping guidelines that create a limit of "110 ping" to NA servers.

The rule in question refers to this:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/776052661454635008/887057802877603890/unknown.png

This is an update to the Region rule by reverting it to a previous iteration of the rule that existed in RGL prior to the start of 2021 (the rule itself had existed since the beginning of the league). It is a region cap on the number of non-region players in the North American leagues for RGL (2 for 6s, 3 for HL, etc.). When RGL hosted European and Australian regions in its league, there were region caps on North American players participating in these tournaments as well.

Other leagues such as RSL.tf and UGC also have similar region cap rules:

RSL.tf:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/776052661454635008/887094856961388574/unknown.png

UGC:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/776052661454635008/887095033927458846/unknown.png

(* UGC making an exception to Colombian / Peruvian players)

The full article, which explains more in detail about why the the rule was reverted can be found here: https://rgl.gg/?a=1566. In a 2020 article, this was also polled where the rule was clarified/explained:

https://i.imgur.com/XCGwdqh.png

To be clear, there are no new "RGL ping guidelines". There are no new ping guidelines that create a limit of "110 ping" to NA servers.

The rule in question refers to this: [img]https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/776052661454635008/887057802877603890/unknown.png[/img] This is an update to the Region rule by reverting it to a previous iteration of the rule that existed in RGL prior to the start of 2021 (the rule itself had existed since the beginning of the league). It is a region cap on the number of non-region players in the North American leagues for RGL (2 for 6s, 3 for HL, etc.). When RGL hosted European and Australian regions in its league, there were region caps on North American players participating in these tournaments as well.

Other leagues such as RSL.tf and UGC also have similar region cap rules:

RSL.tf: [img]https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/776052661454635008/887094856961388574/unknown.png[/img]
UGC: [img]https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/776052661454635008/887095033927458846/unknown.png[/img] (* UGC making an exception to Colombian / Peruvian players)

The full article, which explains more in detail about why the the rule was reverted can be found here: https://rgl.gg/?a=1566. In a [url=https://rgl.gg/Public/Articles/Default.aspx?a=1365&r=40]2020 article[/url], this was also polled where the rule was clarified/explained: [img]https://i.imgur.com/XCGwdqh.png[/img]
32
#32
2 Frags +
ArieI think this is a common misconception, the high ping of one (or even most) other players won't affect your experience by itself. John Carmack got it mostly right back in 1996.
The "teleporting timmy" example is way more annoying for other players, but a ping limit doesn't fix that.

I agree that it is a minor issue, and the timmy example is definitely worse. I think there is still a point to be made that having everyone on similar and minimal latency is important. I am not siding with RGL, but I agree with the core concept.

Maybe my csgo escapade has polarized my view, but having a relatively fair playing field ping wise is critical. Even million dollar CSGO tournament organizers cant get this shit straight, so its hard to expect better from the TF2 scene, but RGL definitely arent making the right steps to fix any of these issues IMHO.

again, I dont agree with RGLs rules and I am sad to see so many players/teams being exiled for arbitrary reasons

[quote=Arie]
I think this is a common misconception, the high ping of one (or even most) other players won't affect your experience by itself. John Carmack [url=https://raw.githubusercontent.com/ESWAT/john-carmack-plan-archive/master/by_day/johnc_plan_19960802.txt]got it mostly right back in 1996[/url].
The "teleporting timmy" example is way more annoying for other players, but a ping limit doesn't fix that.[/quote]

I agree that it is a minor issue, and the timmy example is definitely worse. I think there is still a point to be made that having everyone on similar and minimal latency is important. I am not siding with RGL, but I agree with the core concept.

Maybe my csgo escapade has polarized my view, but having a relatively fair playing field ping wise is critical. Even million dollar CSGO tournament organizers cant get this shit straight, so its hard to expect better from the TF2 scene, but RGL definitely arent making the right steps to fix any of these issues IMHO.

again, I dont agree with RGLs rules and I am sad to see so many players/teams being exiled for arbitrary reasons
33
#33
-2 Frags +

Do a new Poll

Do a new Poll
34
#34
-2 Frags +

I know RGLs rules arent too far off of other leagues, but that doesnt mean the rules cannot be improved. Plus shitting on RGL is easy upfrags and no cares about UGC on this site
I also think its fair for a NA league to only want NA teams in abstract. But in this case I wish NA leagues would be a bit more receptive to allowing SA teams considering how poorly SA leagues are run and how minimal the impact of having a server-wide "high", but stable ping for all players. Its not ideal, but so be it...

I hate having to play against non central NA teams (purely latency wise), but I still think its fair to allow them to play

I know RGLs rules arent too far off of other leagues, but that doesnt mean the rules cannot be improved. Plus shitting on RGL is easy upfrags and no cares about UGC on this site
I also think its fair for a NA league to only want NA teams in abstract. But in this case I wish NA leagues would be a bit more receptive to allowing SA teams considering how poorly SA leagues are run and how minimal the impact of having a server-wide "high", but stable ping for all players. Its not ideal, but so be it...

I hate having to play against non central NA teams (purely latency wise), but I still think its fair to allow them to play
35
#35
33 Frags +

Time to build my own league with blackjack and hookers.

Time to build my own league with blackjack and hookers.
36
#36
33 Frags +
exa_The full article, which explains more in detail about why the the rule was reverted can be found here: https://rgl.gg/?a=1566. In a 2020 article, this was also polled where the rule was clarified/explained: https://i.imgur.com/XCGwdqh.png

It is fine, we all knew the rules before joining the league.
The issue now is that we registered and paid our inscriptions under the rule that <150ms players did not count as out of North America (for Peruvians & Colombian players) and organized our rosters according to it as well.
There are exceptions issued for certain players and teams that are also harmless and offer an easier adaptability for everyone than just killing the entire team.
This rule was changed 3 days before the week began, killing 7 teams in its way and deleting the opportunity for Peru & Colombian players alike to play.

That poll was a year ago as well, things seemed to have changed as more South American players have registered on this season otherwise not that many teams would have been killed.

[quote=exa_]The full article, which explains more in detail about why the the rule was reverted can be found here: https://rgl.gg/?a=1566. In a [url=https://rgl.gg/Public/Articles/Default.aspx?a=1365&r=40]2020 article[/url], this was also polled where the rule was clarified/explained: [img]https://i.imgur.com/XCGwdqh.png[/img][/quote]

It is fine, we all knew the rules before joining the league.
The issue now is that we registered and paid our inscriptions under the rule that <150ms players did not count as out of North America (for Peruvians & Colombian players) and organized our rosters according to it as well.
[url=https://rgl.gg/Public/Team.aspx?t=8986&r=24]There are exceptions issued for certain players and teams that are also harmless and offer an easier adaptability for everyone than just killing the entire team.[/url]
This rule was changed 3 days before the week began, killing 7 teams in its way and deleting the opportunity for Peru & Colombian players alike to play.

That poll was a year ago as well, things seemed to have changed as more South American players have registered on this season otherwise not that many teams would have been killed.
37
#37
15 Frags +

.

.
38
#38
33 Frags +

trying to escape SA only to keep trying to enjoy this game in some fucking form, getting the money to play the league, working my damn ass off practicing my English calls and getting used to the unplayability of 200ms only to get restricted by some nobody that CLEARLY hasn't played a single fucking round of 6s, what a fucking time to try to enjoy some tf2

https://i.imgur.com/vsatzMH.png

trying to escape SA only to keep trying to enjoy this game in some fucking form, getting the money to play the league, working my damn ass off practicing my English calls and getting used to the unplayability of 200ms only to get restricted by some nobody that CLEARLY hasn't played a single fucking round of 6s, what a fucking time to try to enjoy some tf2
[img]https://i.imgur.com/vsatzMH.png[/img]
39
#39
18 Frags +
Pirateer5So they waited for you to pay and sign up before killing your teams?

This my man is exactly what happened.
And worst of all, we all organized our players inside our team to abide by the rules at the time. Only for a slight change to just kill it.

[quote=Pirateer5]
So they waited for you to pay and sign up before killing your teams?[/quote]

This my man is exactly what happened.
And worst of all, we all organized our players inside our team to abide by the rules at the time. Only for a slight change to just kill it.
40
#40
35 Frags +

you announce the ruleset when you announce the new season, then you allow people to register. thats just how it works. if you need to change something like this it can wait until next season

even if the rule is fair youre straight up scamming people out of money

you announce the ruleset when you announce the new season, then you allow people to register. thats just how it works. if you need to change something like this it can wait until next season

even if the rule is fair youre straight up scamming people out of money
41
#41
0 Frags +

How do other currencies work with rgl?

How do other currencies work with rgl?
42
#42
0 Frags +
JohhnyFromCaliHow do other currencies work with rgl?

You can have somebody pay for you in the case you can't pay in USD.

[quote=JohhnyFromCali]How do other currencies work with rgl?[/quote]

You can have somebody pay for you in the case you can't pay in USD.
43
#43
12 Frags +

The SA teams should get a refund.

Imo the 150 ping limit was the fairest way to accommodate everyone. You have NA players past and present that have played with 120+ ping how are they any different.

The SA teams should get a refund.

Imo the 150 ping limit was the fairest way to accommodate everyone. You have NA players past and present that have played with 120+ ping how are they any different.
44
#44
RGL.gg
18 Frags +
exa_this was also polled

It should be obvious that the lowest common denominator poll-completer does not know, nor care to consider, a situation like this.
The South American community is inextricably linked with the North American community, as a self-touted community league, you should be representing these players as well

[quote=exa_]this was also polled[/quote]
It should be obvious that the lowest common denominator poll-completer does not know, nor care to consider, a situation like this.
The South American community is inextricably linked with the North American community, as a self-touted community league, you should be representing these players as well
45
#45
25 Frags +
arcadiaexa_this was also polledIt should be obvious that the lowest common denominator poll-completer does not know, nor care to consider, a situation like this.
The South American community is inextricably linked with the North American community, as a self-touted community league, you should be representing these players as well

hard agree
i see no reason to stop sa/eu people from playing if they want to. it's not like rgl 6's has leagues for other regions

other people having high ping doesn't really affect low ping players, that should be pretty obvious from the 2 cups where a top level na/eu full stack played in the opposite region

[quote=arcadia][quote=exa_]this was also polled[/quote]
It should be obvious that the lowest common denominator poll-completer does not know, nor care to consider, a situation like this.
The South American community is inextricably linked with the North American community, as a self-touted community league, you should be representing these players as well[/quote]
hard agree
i see no reason to stop sa/eu people from playing if they want to. it's not like rgl 6's has leagues for other regions

other people having high ping doesn't really affect low ping players, that should be pretty obvious from the 2 cups where a top level na/eu full stack played in the opposite region
46
#46
-53 Frags +

(With all the in fighting in the comp scene, it's) no wonder TF2 comp is unpopular... -_-

(With all the in fighting in the comp scene, it's) no wonder TF2 comp is unpopular... -_-
47
#47
19 Frags +
AimIsADick(With all the in fighting in the comp scene, it's) no wonder TF2 comp is unpopular... -_-

What credibility do you have on this topic anyway? I don't recall you ever being a tf2 major or studying competitive.

[quote=AimIsADick](With all the in fighting in the comp scene, it's) no wonder TF2 comp is unpopular... -_-[/quote]

What credibility do you have on this topic anyway? I don't recall you ever being a tf2 major or studying competitive.
48
#48
24 Frags +
AimIsADick(With all the in fighting in the comp scene, it's) no wonder TF2 comp is unpopular... -_-

some avant garde punctuation here

[quote=AimIsADick](With all the in fighting in the comp scene, it's) no wonder TF2 comp is unpopular... -_-[/quote]
some avant garde punctuation here
49
#49
-30 Frags +
quacksWhat credibility do you have on this topic anyway? I don't recall you ever being a tf2 major or studying competitive.

Yeah ik. I know nothing about comp. I was just saying that it feels like there's a lot of infighting in the comp scene, which makes comp feel even more confusing.

[quote=quacks]
What credibility do you have on this topic anyway? I don't recall you ever being a tf2 major or studying competitive.[/quote]
Yeah ik. I know nothing about comp. I was just saying that it feels like there's a lot of infighting in the comp scene, which makes comp feel even more confusing.
50
#50
-1 Frags +

meanwhile in etf2l there is not a single restriction or rule and it's free, maybe you SA guys should go there instead LOL

(but thanks for the sign-up money, amigos)

it really is just racism when you allow 250 ping hawaiians but won't allow argentines. guess you gotta get conquered and annexed first by the USA before you are deemed worthy for an USA-based based admin (and aren't puerto rican) and the poll taken just proves that the USA has a racist problem which the rest of the world already knows )))

meanwhile in etf2l there is not a single restriction or rule and it's free, maybe you SA guys should go there instead LOL

(but thanks for the sign-up money, amigos)

it really is just racism when you allow 250 ping hawaiians but won't allow argentines. guess you gotta get conquered and annexed first by the USA before you are deemed worthy for an USA-based based admin (and aren't puerto rican) and the poll taken just proves that the USA has a racist problem which the rest of the world already knows )))
51
#51
21 Frags +

This rule is so stupid, it seems like some ppl think that having high ping is an advantage or something when its literally the opposite. I bet that the ones that complain have never experienced what its like to play with 200 ping. The leagues in SA lately have had like 3 teams per division with no incentive but the medal, not to mention past corruptions. So a lot of players are just trying to find more competition or just get away from that in other regions like NA which is the closest even if they have to play with 200 ping which is a pain. And to play in any NA server the enemy team wants which can make your ping even higher, and even with all that rgl closes the doors for other regions because someone thought that 200 ping players are difficult to play against.
Also right when we are trying to make competitive bigger. Its just absurd

This rule is so stupid, it seems like some ppl think that having high ping is an advantage or something when its literally the opposite. I bet that the ones that complain have never experienced what its like to play with 200 ping. The leagues in SA lately have had like 3 teams per division with no incentive but the medal, not to mention past corruptions. So a lot of players are just trying to find more competition or just get away from that in other regions like NA which is the closest even if they have to play with 200 ping which is a pain. And to play in any NA server the enemy team wants which can make your ping even higher, and even with all that rgl closes the doors for other regions because someone thought that 200 ping players are difficult to play against.
Also right when we are trying to make competitive bigger. Its just absurd
52
#52
tf2pickup.org
16 Frags +
exa_

Hey Exa! I told you this in DMs quite a while ago, but I'll say it here again:

STOP CREATING POLLS ON THE WEBSITE AND FORCING MY DECISIONS TO BE CHERRY PICKED.

It's okay, no one will hurt you with extended responses. Let it happen.

I think we should allow people from the SA region. They seem pretty cool, and the handful of times I have played against them, it wasn't any worse than playing people from the west coast.

I'm going to expand some more and say that even full on SA teams should be allowed. Much better than full West Coast teams.

[quote=exa_][/quote]
Hey Exa! I told you this in DMs quite a while ago, but I'll say it here again:

STOP CREATING POLLS ON THE WEBSITE AND FORCING MY DECISIONS TO BE CHERRY PICKED.

It's okay, no one will hurt you with extended responses. Let it happen.

I think we should allow people from the SA region. They seem pretty cool, and the handful of times I have played against them, it wasn't any worse than playing people from the west coast.

I'm going to expand some more and say that even full on SA teams should be allowed. Much better than full West Coast teams.
53
#53
18 Frags +
botmodei see no reason to stop sa/eu people from playing if they want to. it's not like rgl 6's has leagues for other regions

other people having high ping doesn't really affect low ping players, that should be pretty obvious from the 2 cups where a top level na/eu full stack played in the opposite region

Thank you botmode, an opinion like this coming from a great player like you actually makes me really happy and content.
All we want as South Americans is to be able to play. Most of us transitioned to RGL because of the low, corrupt and repetitive leagues that exist here, at least I did because of that.
Your opinion is something I greatly appreciate you for publishing here :)

I can quote all South Americans in RGL right now that have registered on a team for Season 7 as to why they wanted to play, and it's always because our region's scene is in constant declining (which is explained in our document).

amperetrying to escape SA only to keep trying to enjoy this game in some f form, getting the money to play the league, working my damn a off practicing my English calls and getting used to the unplayability of 200ms only to get restricted by some nobody that CLEARLY hasn't played a single f round of 6s, what a f time to try to enjoy some tf2

This is the frustration we have felt. The inability to have a proper appeal for this situation that shouldn't have happened.
If they hadn't changed this rule 3 days before the season starting, this would all have been avoided.
On this I quote what brody said (thank you too):

brodyyou announce the ruleset when you announce the new season, then you allow people to register. thats just how it works. if you need to change something like this it can wait until next season

even if the rule is fair youre straight up scamming people out of money

If this change was announced when Season 7 hit, we wouldn't have even thought about registering into the league nor reuniting the money (which is not easy for people like me on Argentina due to political and economy issues on our country) to pay our respective inscription fees. Not trying to get pity because of that situation, but we all abided by the rules at the moment of our inscriptions, why change them now when matches start in less than a week?

sacmeanwhile in etf2l there is not a single restriction or rule and it's free, maybe you SA guys should go there instead LOL

Yeah, ETF2L staff has treated South Americans excellent, at least most of the people that played any season at all told me this, and I'm really flattered to know this.
Big props to ETF2L staff for their acceptance and inclusion. Like I sad above, all we want is to play somewhere different where new faces are seen and new challenges are proposed each time. We're tired of abiding only by another repetitive LBTF2 season (which has the same 3 teams on each div) or go to UGC.

24arcadiaangelcrg

This is legit, professional brazilian Team Fortress 2 player for some good amount of time now.

untamedzandadalenukaspercortenthrowJohhnyFromCali

Thank you all dearly for splashing your opinion here as well, it helps our cause by a lot and warms me up knowing that players like us could have the chance to play against new people on a completely new environment.
Also big props to people helping out on the thread I made on RGL Forums. Whatever needed to make this change be reverted at least only for Season 7.
You guys are the best :')

edit: removed the quote text as to not make the post really long, sorry :P

[quote=botmode]i see no reason to stop sa/eu people from playing if they want to. it's not like rgl 6's has leagues for other regions

other people having high ping doesn't really affect low ping players, that should be pretty obvious from the 2 cups where a top level na/eu full stack played in the opposite region[/quote]

Thank you botmode, an opinion like this coming from a great player like you actually makes me really happy and content.
All we want as South Americans is to be able to play. Most of us transitioned to RGL because of the low, corrupt and repetitive leagues that exist here, at least I did because of that.
Your opinion is something I greatly appreciate you for publishing here :)

I can quote all South Americans in RGL right now that have registered on a team for Season 7 as to why they wanted to play, and it's always because our region's scene is in constant declining ([url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uQyF8VtLzDdmFqLvbHe4z0hjHYRRJ9KdeilEXLUiaZw/edit?usp=sharing]which is explained in our document[/url]).

[quote=ampere]trying to escape SA only to keep trying to enjoy this game in some f form, getting the money to play the league, working my damn a off practicing my English calls and getting used to the unplayability of 200ms only to get restricted by some nobody that CLEARLY hasn't played a single f round of 6s, what a f time to try to enjoy some tf2[/quote]

This is the frustration we have felt. The inability to have a proper appeal for this situation that shouldn't have happened.
If they hadn't changed this rule 3 days before the season starting, this would all have been avoided.
On this I quote what brody said (thank you too):

[quote=brody]you announce the ruleset when you announce the new season, then you allow people to register. thats just how it works. if you need to change something like this it can wait until next season

even if the rule is fair youre straight up scamming people out of money[/quote]

If this change was announced when Season 7 hit, we wouldn't have even thought about registering into the league nor reuniting the money (which is not easy for people like me on Argentina due to political and economy issues on our country) to pay our respective inscription fees. Not trying to get pity because of that situation, but we all abided by the rules at the moment of our inscriptions, why change them now when matches start in less than a week?

[quote=sac]meanwhile in etf2l there is not a single restriction or rule and it's free, maybe you SA guys should go there instead LOL[/quote]

Yeah, ETF2L staff has treated South Americans excellent, at least most of the people that played any season at all told me this, and I'm really flattered to know this.
Big props to ETF2L staff for their acceptance and inclusion. Like I sad above, all we want is to play somewhere different where new faces are seen and new challenges are proposed each time. We're tired of abiding only by another repetitive LBTF2 season (which has the same 3 teams on each div) or go to UGC.

[quote=24][/quote]
[quote=arcadia][/quote]
[quote=angel][/quote]
[quote=crg][/quote]
This is legit, professional brazilian Team Fortress 2 player for some good amount of time now.
[quote=untamed][/quote]
[quote=zanda][/quote]
[quote=dalenu][/quote]
[quote=kasper][/quote]
[quote=cort][/quote]
[quote=enthrow][/quote]
[quote=JohhnyFromCali][/quote]

Thank you all dearly for splashing your opinion here as well, it helps our cause by a lot and warms me up knowing that players like us could have the chance to play against new people on a completely new environment.
Also big props to people helping out [url=https://forums.rgl.gg/topic/1814/rgl-south-american-inclusion/]on the thread I made on RGL Forums[/url]. Whatever needed to make this change be reverted [b]at least only for Season 7[/b].
You guys are the best :')

edit: removed the quote text as to not make the post really long, sorry :P
54
#54
25 Frags +

Admin who hit on a 15-year old fails to explain reasoning behind new rules, more at 11.

Admin who hit on a 15-year old fails to explain reasoning behind new rules, more at 11.
55
#55
2 Frags +

lmao imagine excluding people that already paid to play, especially in a league that doesn't even have such a big amount of players on a game like tf2

lmao imagine excluding people that already paid to play, especially in a league that doesn't even have such a big amount of players on a game like tf2
56
#56
UGC
31 Frags +

In May of 2019, UGC implemented a rule that considered players from Peru and Colombia to be pseudo-North Americans. There have been 28 months of these players playing in NA divisions, and although for the first season there were some difficulties to overcome, there have been virtually 0 issues regarding these players since then. So far, all my interactions with these players have been nothing but positive, and they understand that they are playing with all the handicaps that continental SA players have when playing in NA divs but they've overcome that and have been valuable players in the TF2 competitive community.

This rule is shortsighted and alienates members of the SA community that have been playing in NA for quite some time now with little issue.

Esta regla no es justa y no es asi como debemos tratar a los buenos miembros de la comunidad.

In May of 2019, UGC implemented a rule that considered players from Peru and Colombia to be pseudo-North Americans. There have been 28 months of these players playing in NA divisions, and although for the first season there were some difficulties to overcome, there have been virtually 0 issues regarding these players since then. So far, all my interactions with these players have been nothing but positive, and they understand that they are playing with all the handicaps that continental SA players have when playing in NA divs but they've overcome that and have been valuable players in the TF2 competitive community.

This rule is shortsighted and alienates members of the SA community that have been playing in NA for quite some time now with little issue.

Esta regla no es justa y no es asi como debemos tratar a los buenos miembros de la comunidad.
57
#57
-5 Frags +

Could RGL not just make an offshoot league for SA?

Could RGL not just make an offshoot league for SA?
58
#58
-3 Frags +

based rule

based rule
59
#59
-2 Frags +
pajarobased rule

Jodase Castro!!!

[quote=pajaro]based rule[/quote]
Jodase Castro!!!
60
#60
14 Frags +

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/854503031843323914/887466406025756672/unknown.png?width=960&height=638

LFG

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/854503031843323914/887466406025756672/unknown.png?width=960&height=638

LFG
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