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Thoughts on new RGL ping guidelines?
1
#1
0 Frags +

New ping guidelines make the limit 110 ping essentially barring all SA teams from playing in RGL. Teams also have the liberty of declining any server that would help the SA players get better ping. I know I'm in the minority here but I disagree with essentially banning SA from RGL. Their leagues no longer exist either. RGL should at least give thought to region expansion.

Thoughts?

New ping guidelines make the limit 110 ping essentially barring all SA teams from playing in RGL. Teams also have the liberty of declining any server that would help the SA players get better ping. I know I'm in the minority here but I disagree with essentially banning SA from RGL. Their leagues no longer exist either. RGL should at least give thought to region expansion.

Thoughts?
2
#2
43 Frags +

https://c.tenor.com/FN15lU9CJGAAAAAC/im-back-from-brazil.gif

[img]https://c.tenor.com/FN15lU9CJGAAAAAC/im-back-from-brazil.gif[/img]
3
#3
29 Frags +

this also bans any potential europeans ever. Very based Racist Gaming League kicking out all the foreigners!

rgl[1005.2] - Region has been reverted to the previous iteration of this rule where each region now has a maximum capacity of non-region players per format. For the North America region, the cap is three non-NA players for Highlander, two for Sixes, and two for Prolander.

Starting in the year 2021, RGL had updated the region rule to a latency-based system where teams have a maximum capacity of a third of the roster having connections exceeding 150 ping to the league's default region central server. After two seasons, this has given us new findings regarding this rule that was not initially anticipated, which will be covered here.

Anti-cheat

Specifically, with anti-cheat, the current rule has contributed to an increase of cheating and alting cases to the league. With the current RGL leagues operating in North America, the increase in cases from non-regions created a bigger backlog for the volunteer staff to handle. With non-region players not having much of a background or experience, this also made it difficult to handle alting cases which affected the integrity of the league primarily in our lower divisions. Additionally, in other regions where documentation is fuzzy, it became difficult for mirrored cheating bans to be placed due to unclear evidence or practices in these regions.

Enforcement

Enforcement of the 150-ping rule also proved to be inconsistent. Fundamentally, ping as a metric is difficult to enforce and not a consistent metric, especially after the season starts. There were many situations where players near the 150 ping cap would sometimes be okay, and then other days where they were not.

Below contains a major point from a 2020 article discussing the region rule. They will be reiterated here due to the pronounced issues that were brought up by division administrators:For players participating in our league, you may know that we have an "Admin Placement" division. This is for players who are above Open but might not be ready for Invite. This is a placeholder for the Intermediate, Main, and Advanced divisions. Instead of teams selecting their own divisions, teams will register, and admins will review their roster strength, logs, and other factors to determine what division they should be placed into. The issue lies with players participating in regions, such as Europe or South America. Cross-experience becomes blurry, for example, where to particularly place players with SA UGC experience, as there is only one division that exists in that particular region. The possibility of placing a top player from South America or a player that may have a lot of experience from competitions in that region into a wrong division in RGL NA becomes a possibility. This is further pronounced by the past history of teams that intentionally sandbag by taking advantage of the lack of familiarity of player skill from other regions.

where is this new ping guideline OP spoke off on the rgl site?

this also bans any potential europeans ever. Very based Racist Gaming League kicking out all the foreigners!

[quote=rgl][1005.2] - Region has been reverted to the previous iteration of this rule where each region now has a maximum capacity of non-region players per format. For the North America region, the cap is three non-NA players for Highlander, two for Sixes, and two for Prolander.

Starting in the year 2021, RGL had updated the region rule to a latency-based system where teams have a maximum capacity of a third of the roster having connections exceeding 150 ping to the league's default region central server. After two seasons, this has given us new findings regarding this rule that was not initially anticipated, which will be covered here.

Anti-cheat

Specifically, with anti-cheat, the current rule has contributed to an increase of cheating and alting cases to the league. With the current RGL leagues operating in North America, the increase in cases from non-regions created a bigger backlog for the volunteer staff to handle. With non-region players not having much of a background or experience, this also made it difficult to handle alting cases which affected the integrity of the league primarily in our lower divisions. Additionally, in other regions where documentation is fuzzy, it became difficult for mirrored cheating bans to be placed due to unclear evidence or practices in these regions.

Enforcement

Enforcement of the 150-ping rule also proved to be inconsistent. Fundamentally, ping as a metric is difficult to enforce and not a consistent metric, especially after the season starts. There were many situations where players near the 150 ping cap would sometimes be okay, and then other days where they were not.

Below contains a major point from a 2020 article discussing the region rule. They will be reiterated here due to the pronounced issues that were brought up by division administrators:[quote]For players participating in our league, you may know that we have an "Admin Placement" division. This is for players who are above Open but might not be ready for Invite. This is a placeholder for the Intermediate, Main, and Advanced divisions. Instead of teams selecting their own divisions, teams will register, and admins will review their roster strength, logs, and other factors to determine what division they should be placed into. The issue lies with players participating in regions, such as Europe or South America. Cross-experience becomes blurry, for example, where to particularly place players with SA UGC experience, as there is only one division that exists in that particular region. The possibility of placing a top player from South America or a player that may have a lot of experience from competitions in that region into a wrong division in RGL NA becomes a possibility. This is further pronounced by the past history of teams that intentionally sandbag by taking advantage of the lack of familiarity of player skill from other regions.[/quote][/quote]


where is this new ping guideline OP spoke off on the rgl site?
4
#4
41 Frags +
sacI tried to google what the new rule is on the rgl site and its down?

rahmed bringing the site to its knees now he can't play in every league

[quote=sac]I tried to google what the new rule is on the rgl site and its down?[/quote]

rahmed bringing the site to its knees now he can't play in every league
5
#5
serveme.tf
62 Frags +

The rule shouldn't exist at all.

The rule shouldn't exist at all.
6
#6
-16 Frags +
ArieThe rule shouldn't exist at all.

why is ur french flag sideways

[quote=Arie]The rule shouldn't exist at all.[/quote]
why is ur french flag sideways
7
#7
50 Frags +

I will let you guys know about the 7 South american teams that got killed by this arbitrary rule in a short period of time.

I will let you guys know about the 7 South american teams that got killed by this arbitrary rule in a short period of time.
8
#8
39 Frags +
row_sacI tried to google what the new rule is on the rgl site and its down?
rahmed bringing the site to its knees now he can't play in every league

They did not stop me then.
They will not stop me now.

[quote=row_][quote=sac]I tried to google what the new rule is on the rgl site and its down?[/quote]

rahmed bringing the site to its knees now he can't play in every league[/quote]

They did not stop me then.
They will not stop me now.
9
#9
8 Frags +
Specifically, with anti-cheat, the current rule has contributed to an increase of cheating and alting cases to the league

stopping cheaters is rightfully priority number one

[quote]Specifically, with anti-cheat, the current rule has contributed to an increase of cheating and alting cases to the league[/quote]

stopping cheaters is rightfully priority number one
10
#10
39 Frags +

Argentinian player here.
I have asked countless teams that we scrimmed against with my IM team (which is consisted of Peru players and abides by the rule of only 2 South American players rostered). Peru players were never an issue playing on RGL since they've always had and STILL HAVE less than 100ms of latency on any region in NA.
My main team roster consists of 3 Peru players, 2 South American (Argentine & Chilean respectively) and 1 North American. Past season and midseason cup was played by lots of South American players.

rglStarting in the year 2021, RGL had updated the region rule to a latency-based system where teams have a maximum capacity of a third of the roster having connections exceeding 150 ping to the league's default region central server. After two seasons, this has given us new findings regarding this rule that was not initially anticipated, which will be covered here.

I also reinforce the fact that this 150ms maximum latency rule was proposed to allow Peru & Colombian players to play since they do not have any official league on their region, and staff members at the time thought it was unfair to not let them play, not counting Brazilian leagues since they have +180ms on any of their servers.

rglEnforcement of the 150-ping rule also proved to be inconsistent. Fundamentally, ping as a metric is difficult to enforce and not a consistent metric, especially after the season starts. There were many situations where players near the 150 ping cap would sometimes be okay, and then other days where they were not.

Might I add that this is denominated "poor internet connection" and not related to latency?
Anyone regardless of region could experience packet loss, jitter or rubber banding even on 15ms of latency. This has nothing to do with region.

edit: We, SA players, have made a document explaining the entire situation and how can it be reverted for inclusion.
We all thank you people for being on our side and seeing the wrong-doing of this change, your support is all we need <3

Link to the document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uQyF8VtLzDdmFqLvbHe4z0hjHYRRJ9KdeilEXLUiaZw/edit?usp=sharing
Link to the RGL Forums Post: https://forums.rgl.gg/topic/1814/rgl-south-american-inclusion

Argentinian player here.
I have asked countless teams that we scrimmed against with my IM team (which is consisted of Peru players and abides by the rule of only 2 South American players rostered). Peru players were never an issue playing on RGL since they've always had and STILL HAVE less than 100ms of latency on any region in NA.
My main team roster consists of 3 Peru players, 2 South American (Argentine & Chilean respectively) and 1 North American. Past season and midseason cup was played by lots of South American players.

[quote=rgl]Starting in the year 2021, RGL had updated the region rule to a latency-based system where teams have a maximum capacity of a third of the roster having connections exceeding 150 ping to the league's default region central server. After two seasons, this has given us new findings regarding this rule that was not initially anticipated, which will be covered here.[/quote]

I also reinforce the fact that this 150ms maximum latency rule was proposed to [url=https://rgl.gg/?a=1487]allow Peru & Colombian players to play since they do not have any official league on their region, and staff members at the time thought it was unfair to not let them play[/url], not counting Brazilian leagues since they have +180ms on any of their servers.

[quote=rgl]Enforcement of the 150-ping rule also proved to be inconsistent. Fundamentally, ping as a metric is difficult to enforce and not a consistent metric, especially after the season starts. There were many situations where players near the 150 ping cap would sometimes be okay, and then other days where they were not.[/quote]

Might I add that this is denominated "poor internet connection" and not related to latency?
Anyone regardless of region could experience [b]packet loss[/b], [b]jitter[/b] or [b]rubber banding[/b] even on 15ms of latency. This has nothing to do with region.

edit: We, SA players, have made a document explaining the entire situation and how can it be reverted for inclusion.
We all thank you people for being on our side and seeing the wrong-doing of this change, your support is all we need <3

Link to the document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uQyF8VtLzDdmFqLvbHe4z0hjHYRRJ9KdeilEXLUiaZw/edit?usp=sharing
Link to the RGL Forums Post: https://forums.rgl.gg/topic/1814/rgl-south-american-inclusion
11
#11
16 Frags +

fear

fear
12
#12
68 Frags +

id rather play against a million consistent 120 ping sa players than little timmy in virginia who teleports through space and time whenever hes airborne

id rather play against a million consistent 120 ping sa players than little timmy in virginia who teleports through space and time whenever hes airborne
13
#13
35 Frags +

RIP LEGIT [*]

RIP LEGIT [*]
14
#14
24 Frags +

stupid rule

stupid rule
15
#15
37 Frags +

yo, don't do that, i like to play =/

i'm thinking in playing again, i can't stay out of TF2 !!!

yo, don't do that, i like to play =/

i'm thinking in playing again, i can't stay out of TF2 !!!
16
#16
31 Frags +

bruh their leagues are corrupt at this point, ping wise I fought against SA players and they weren’t really laggy if at all for the most part so this rule is just really dumb. not only that they’re are the ones really suffering here gameplay wise because well… they have 100+ ping…

bruh their leagues are corrupt at this point, ping wise I fought against SA players and they weren’t really laggy if at all for the most part so this rule is just really dumb. not only that they’re are the ones really suffering here gameplay wise because well… they have 100+ ping…
17
#17
34 Frags +

I dont see the problem if they're not teleporting around. consistent high ping is not an issue

I dont see the problem if they're not teleporting around. consistent high ping is not an issue
18
#18
0 Frags +
angelid rather play against a million consistent 120 ping sa players than little timmy in virginia who teleports through space and time whenever hes airborne

why is the greatest state in the union out here catching strays

[quote=angel]id rather play against a million consistent 120 ping sa players than little timmy in virginia who teleports through space and time whenever hes airborne[/quote]

why is the greatest state in the union out here catching strays
19
#19
9 Frags +

Also rip to any Hawaii players too

Also rip to any Hawaii players too
20
#20
6 Frags +
_KermitAlso rip to any Hawaii players too

it's not ping based it's region based, hawaii players are NA

[quote=_Kermit]Also rip to any Hawaii players too[/quote]

it's not ping based it's region based, hawaii players are NA
21
#21
14 Frags +

as long as the connection is stable and they're not rubberbanding/stuttering i couldn't care less if an australian played on the other team.

as long as the connection is stable and they're not rubberbanding/stuttering i couldn't care less if an australian played on the other team.
22
#22
3 Frags +

F E A R

F E A R
23
#23
7 Frags +

Id like to say I understand where RGL is coming from (as any one persons poor connection can effect everyone elses experience), but it feels like they are causing more problems then they are trying to solve (assuming good intent).

The wording is even more confusing/saddening, why are you limiting the maximum percent of a ROSTER to some arbitrary "central" server. Can a EU team have just enough NA players roster-ed to bypass this rule?

I can kinda get behind a rule along the lines of "if you cannot get half (3 players) of your team to have less than 100 ping in any na.serverme.tf server, you forfeit the match", but Im not sure it would be much help anyways. There has to be a better rule set than this if these "outsiders" are really impacting ur league. The tf2 comp community is too small to be trimming out teams for such a small gain, but maybe wrong...

tldr
rGL bAd
#freeRahmed

Id like to say I understand where RGL is coming from (as any one persons poor connection can effect everyone elses experience), but it feels like they are causing more problems then they are trying to solve (assuming good intent).

The wording is even more confusing/saddening, why are you limiting the maximum percent of a ROSTER to some arbitrary "central" server. Can a EU team have just enough NA players roster-ed to bypass this rule?

I can kinda get behind a rule along the lines of "if you cannot get half (3 players) of your team to have less than 100 ping in any na.serverme.tf server, you forfeit the match", but Im not sure it would be much help anyways. There has to be a better rule set than this if these "outsiders" are really impacting ur league. The tf2 comp community is too small to be trimming out teams for such a small gain, but maybe wrong...

tldr
rGL bAd
#freeRahmed
24
#24
16 Frags +
marco5I will let you guys know about the 7 South american teams that got killed by this arbitrary rule in a short period of time.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/19LWz4Jb2r_VnlGb4-VXwamUMRJy45XCPQ_-t30XgfYQ/edit#

DOC ABOUT THIS WHOLE PROBLEM, PLEASE WE WANT TO BE HEARD, THE RULES REGARDING THIS PROBLEM HASNT BEEN HANDLED WITH THE OPINION OF SA (Excluding brazil maybe) PLAYERS BEFORE, LET'S MAKE A CHANGE

[quote=marco5]I will let you guys know about the 7 South american teams that got killed by this arbitrary rule in a short period of time.[/quote]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/19LWz4Jb2r_VnlGb4-VXwamUMRJy45XCPQ_-t30XgfYQ/edit#

DOC ABOUT THIS WHOLE PROBLEM, PLEASE WE WANT TO BE HEARD, THE RULES REGARDING THIS PROBLEM HASNT BEEN HANDLED WITH THE OPINION OF SA (Excluding brazil maybe) PLAYERS BEFORE, LET'S MAKE A CHANGE
25
#25
34 Frags +

south american leagues are corrupt
the good south american players just want real competition, so they come to rgl
just let them play

edit: every foreign player who comes to rgl just wants to play. good players don't constantly freak out about their opponents having 110+ ping :)

south american leagues are corrupt
the good south american players just want real competition, so they come to rgl
just let them play

edit: every foreign player who comes to rgl just wants to play. good players don't constantly freak out about their opponents having 110+ ping :)
26
#26
8 Frags +

rgl me la pelas

rgl me la pelas
27
#27
Spaceship Servers
-7 Frags +

This is fuckin dumb - why not just set sv_maxunlag to like 0.150 and then you essentially nullify any "high ping hitscan advantage" or whatever due to how backtracking works because players can only backtrack 150 ms into the past instead of the default 1 second

This is fuckin dumb - why not just set sv_maxunlag to like 0.150 and then you essentially nullify any "high ping hitscan advantage" or whatever due to how backtracking works because players can only backtrack 150 ms into the past instead of the default 1 second
28
#28
serveme.tf
4 Frags +
_flac(as any one persons poor connection can effect everyone elses experience)

I think this is a common misconception, the high ping of one (or even most) other players won't affect your experience by itself. John Carmack got it mostly right back in 1996.
The "teleporting timmy" example is way more annoying for other players, but a ping limit doesn't fix that.

[quote=_flac](as any one persons poor connection can effect everyone elses experience)[/quote]

I think this is a common misconception, the high ping of one (or even most) other players won't affect your experience by itself. John Carmack [url=https://raw.githubusercontent.com/ESWAT/john-carmack-plan-archive/master/by_day/johnc_plan_19960802.txt]got it mostly right back in 1996[/url].
The "teleporting timmy" example is way more annoying for other players, but a ping limit doesn't fix that.
29
#29
14 Frags +

I don’t see how this rule furthers or helps rgl in any capacity, and I can’t imagine that a potential player vote would uphold this

I don’t see how this rule furthers or helps rgl in any capacity, and I can’t imagine that a potential player vote would uphold this
30
#30
14 Frags +

The one SA team we've been scrimming has monstrous ping, but it doesn't feel that bad to play against. Its consistent, and they teleport about as much or even maybe less than your average NA team. Above comment is spot on.

The one SA team we've been scrimming has monstrous ping, but it doesn't feel that bad to play against. Its consistent, and they teleport about as much or even maybe less than your average NA team. Above comment is spot on.
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