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the ubersaw and the medic meta
1
#1
0 Frags +

the casual meta and the comp meta are pretty much the same for very different reasons, the ubersaw gets a fuck ton of crits and the crusaders crossbow is the most reliable damage dealer the medic has, and the reasons for comp are pretty obvious, the capability that the crossbow has for literal across the map healing is monstrous, and 25% more ubersaw for a minimal downside is very powerfull, i would like to use this thread to discuss this meta, to give it praise or hatred, and maybe even suggesst some other options for when people get bored of it.

the casual meta and the comp meta are pretty much the same for very different reasons, the ubersaw gets a fuck ton of crits and the crusaders crossbow is the most reliable damage dealer the medic has, and the reasons for comp are pretty obvious, the capability that the crossbow has for literal across the map healing is monstrous, and 25% more ubersaw for a minimal downside is very powerfull, i would like to use this thread to discuss this meta, to give it praise or hatred, and maybe even suggesst some other options for when people get bored of it.
2
#2
36 Frags +

here comes aimisadick to tell us his shitty opinion for the 1000th time

here comes aimisadick to tell us his shitty opinion for the 1000th time
3
#3
10 Frags +

People use Solemn Vow in comp usually. Arrows are used for burst healing. The melee you use doesn't really matter that much. Also, all melee weapons share the same crit rate.

People use Solemn Vow in comp usually. Arrows are used for burst healing. The melee you use doesn't really matter that much. Also, all melee weapons share the same crit rate.
4
#4
-10 Frags +

anytime a medic thread is brought around, I always think about that idea for a lightning gun style medi beam. I think its a cool idea to shake up the meta, but idk how it would be balanced to not be too difficult to use, yet be worth the effort to track your teammates.

anytime a medic thread is brought around, I always think about that idea for a lightning gun style medi beam. I think its a cool idea to shake up the meta, but idk how it would be balanced to not be too difficult to use, yet be worth the effort to track your teammates.
5
#5
36 Frags +

Ubersaw doesn't get any more crits than any other medic melee, thats just a wrong idea most pubbers have because they don't understand mechanics.

Ubersaw doesn't get any more crits than any other medic melee, thats just a wrong idea most pubbers have because they don't understand mechanics.
6
#6
13 Frags +

Solemn vow > ubersaw in most scenarios
You can see your enemies health and uber, and even in casual it's fun to w+m1 at someone who you know you can kill
In competitive, the passive abilities outweight the scenario with the ubersaw, where you can get a saw or two and live.
Sure, those scenarios are sick when executed well but are few and far between when going against higher skilled players

Solemn vow > ubersaw in most scenarios
You can see your enemies health and uber, and even in casual it's fun to w+m1 at someone who you know you can kill
In competitive, the passive abilities outweight the scenario with the ubersaw, where you can get a saw or two and live.
Sure, those scenarios are sick when executed well but are few and far between when going against higher skilled players
7
#7
20 Frags +
Yumyumanytime a medic thread is brought around, I always think about that idea for a lightning gun style medi beam. I think its a cool idea to shake up the meta, but idk how it would be balanced to not be too difficult to use, yet be worth the effort to track your teammates.

having to pay attention to aiming and tracking your team mates would mean u die 100% of the time to even the limpest dick imitation of co ordinated aggression lol. u will probably end up dying to solo bombs playing with a weapon like that. why do u think so many meds die or drop when trying to bow their dickhead team mates who arent in a suitable place for them to be bowing them.

[quote=Yumyum]anytime a medic thread is brought around, I always think about that idea for a lightning gun style medi beam. I think its a cool idea to shake up the meta, but idk how it would be balanced to not be too difficult to use, yet be worth the effort to track your teammates.[/quote]

having to pay attention to aiming and tracking your team mates would mean u die 100% of the time to even the limpest dick imitation of co ordinated aggression lol. u will probably end up dying to solo bombs playing with a weapon like that. why do u think so many meds die or drop when trying to bow their dickhead team mates who arent in a suitable place for them to be bowing them.
8
#8
11 Frags +
Makhaving to pay attention to aiming and tracking your team mates would mean u die 100% of the time to even the limpest dick imitation of co ordinated aggression lol. u will probably end up dying to solo bombs playing with a weapon like that. why do u think so many meds die or drop when trying to bow their dickhead team mates who arent in a suitable place for them to be bowing them.

but what if he could also 100lg enemy soldier out of the air

[quote=Mak]
having to pay attention to aiming and tracking your team mates would mean u die 100% of the time to even the limpest dick imitation of co ordinated aggression lol. u will probably end up dying to solo bombs playing with a weapon like that. why do u think so many meds die or drop when trying to bow their dickhead team mates who arent in a suitable place for them to be bowing them.[/quote]

but what if he could also 100lg enemy soldier out of the air
9
#9
-57 Frags +
piratehere comes aimisadick to tell us his shitty opinion for the 1000th time

And I'm here! Übersaw is just overrated trash. My posts sum up my reasons why. [1][2]

Amendments:

  • Über chaining does not work at all; it requires the medic to abandon his pocket, which puts both at extreme risk, just to gain a few more seconds which are wasted anyways. Also the consumption rate eats away at half of the über-on-hit.
  • Übersaw's taunt kill is useless. You get stuck in a single position which is dangerous and it's easy for the enemy to dodge the taunt kill.

edit: Lol I'm immediately downvoted as soon as I posted. Perfect! (Well I have 2 posts that still have positive votes so yay I guess.)

[quote=pirate]here comes aimisadick to tell us his shitty opinion for the 1000th time[/quote]

And I'm here! Übersaw is just overrated trash. My posts sum up my reasons why. [url=https://www.teamfortress.tv/58286/bersaw-is-overrated-trash-imo][1][/url][url=https://old.reddit.com/r/truetf2/comments/k9lo8v/%C3%BCbersaw_is_overrated_heres_why_revised/][2][/url]

Amendments:
[list]
[*] Über chaining does not work [b]at all[/b]; it requires the medic to abandon his pocket, which puts both at extreme risk, just to gain a few more seconds which are wasted anyways. Also the consumption rate eats away at half of the über-on-hit.
[*] Übersaw's taunt kill is useless. You get stuck in a single position which is dangerous and it's easy for the enemy to dodge the taunt kill.
[/list]

edit: Lol I'm immediately downvoted as soon as I posted. [b][i]Perfect![/i][/b] (Well I have 2 posts that still have positive votes so yay I guess.)
10
#10
12 Frags +

the goat has spoken. Lock the thread.

the goat has spoken. Lock the thread.
11
#11
53 Frags +

i'm glad you listed one of the ubersaws downsides as "it's taunt kill is useless"

i'm glad you listed one of the ubersaws downsides as "it's taunt kill is useless"
12
#12
11 Frags +

ubersaw is good on full disad last holds where u can quickly swap and try for a last second saw and then swap back to solemn vow before you push back out, otherwise head

ubersaw is good on full disad last holds where u can quickly swap and try for a last second saw and then swap back to solemn vow before you push back out, otherwise head
13
#13
14 Frags +
AimIsADickcringe

Ah yes, uberchaining and taunt killing, the two pillars of the medic meta.

On another note, do people actually believe Ubersaw random crits more, or is it just some confirmation bias type shit?

[quote=AimIsADick]
cringe
[/quote]
Ah yes, uberchaining and taunt killing, the two pillars of the medic meta.

On another note, do people actually believe Ubersaw random crits more, or is it just some confirmation bias type shit?
14
#14
16 Frags +
AbsoluteZeroOn another note, do people actually believe Ubersaw random crits more, or is it just some confirmation bias type shit?

Medic random crit rate is tied to how much dmg your heal target has done in the past 15(?) seconds as well as your own recent dmg output and most of the time any1 getting healed on a pub is dicking. It's not ubersaw that has high crit rate on pubs, it's Medics overall.

[quote=AbsoluteZero]On another note, do people actually believe Ubersaw random crits more, or is it just some confirmation bias type shit?[/quote]

Medic random crit rate is tied to how much dmg your heal target has done in the past 15(?) seconds as well as your own recent dmg output and most of the time any1 getting healed on a pub is dicking. It's not ubersaw that has high crit rate on pubs, it's Medics overall.
15
#15
-1 Frags +
AimIsADickpiratehere comes aimisadick to tell us his shitty opinion for the 1000th time
And I'm here! Übersaw is just overrated trash. My posts sum up my reasons why. [1][2]

Amendments:
  • Über chaining does not work at all; it requires the medic to abandon his pocket, which puts both at extreme risk, just to gain a few more seconds which are wasted anyways. Also the consumption rate eats away at half of the über-on-hit.
  • Übersaw's taunt kill is useless. You get stuck in a single position which is dangerous and it's easy for the enemy to dodge the taunt kill.

edit: Lol I'm immediately downvoted as soon as I posted. Perfect! (Well I have 2 posts that still have positive votes so yay I guess.)

Your first point is just wrong... The ubersaw is balanced around milliseconds per percent decrease, not consumption rate...

[quote=AimIsADick][quote=pirate]here comes aimisadick to tell us his shitty opinion for the 1000th time[/quote]

And I'm here! Übersaw is just overrated trash. My posts sum up my reasons why. [url=https://www.teamfortress.tv/58286/bersaw-is-overrated-trash-imo][1][/url][url=https://old.reddit.com/r/truetf2/comments/k9lo8v/%C3%BCbersaw_is_overrated_heres_why_revised/][2][/url]

Amendments:
[list]
[*] Über chaining does not work [b]at all[/b]; it requires the medic to abandon his pocket, which puts both at extreme risk, just to gain a few more seconds which are wasted anyways. Also the consumption rate eats away at half of the über-on-hit.
[*] Übersaw's taunt kill is useless. You get stuck in a single position which is dangerous and it's easy for the enemy to dodge the taunt kill.
[/list]

edit: Lol I'm immediately downvoted as soon as I posted. [b][i]Perfect![/i][/b] (Well I have 2 posts that still have positive votes so yay I guess.)[/quote]
Your first point is just wrong... The ubersaw is balanced around milliseconds per percent decrease, not consumption rate...
16
#16
-9 Frags +

why do english people say bow instead of arrow, actually ACTUALLY disgusting

why do english people say bow instead of arrow, actually ACTUALLY disgusting
17
#17
11 Frags +
Adnurakwhy do english people say bow instead of arrow, actually ACTUALLY disgusting

mans really says the more complex callout just out of precedence

[quote=Adnurak]why do english people say bow instead of arrow, actually ACTUALLY disgusting[/quote]
mans really says the more complex callout just out of precedence
18
#18
-21 Frags +
Bob_MarleyAimIsADick
Amendments:
  • Über chaining does not work at all; it requires the medic to abandon his pocket, which puts both at extreme risk, just to gain a few more seconds which are wasted anyways. Also the consumption rate eats away at half of the über-on-hit.
Your first point is just wrong... The ubersaw is balanced around milliseconds per percent decrease, not consumption rate...

How so? According to the TF2 wiki, the Übersaw's attack rate is 0.96s (There is no additional delay since 0.96s is a multiple of 0.015). Medigun übers typically last eight seconds, so we can derive the consumption rate per second by diving 100 by 8; 100⁄8 = 12.5% über consumed per second. For reference the Übersaw's über-on-hit gives 25% über.

Since Übersaw's swing speed is 0.96s, we can safely assume that the total über will equal 12.5% after a second. Even ignoring the swing speed and only accounting for the base weapon switch speed of 0.5s, the consumption rate eats at 6% of the über-on-hit's 25%. Accounting for both the swing speed and base weapon switch speed (adds up to 1.46s), the consumption rate would be 18.25% über, meaning you'd only have 6.75% über left from the über-on-hit. All of this math assumes that decimals matter and that the über count isn't rounded.

TL;DR The über consumption rate does eat away at half of the über-on-hit and this is my proof. At the very least the über consumption rate eats away 24% of the über-on-hit's über and at worst it can eat away 73% über. Again this assumes that these variables aren't rounded.

[quote=Bob_Marley][quote=AimIsADick]

Amendments:
[list]
[*] Über chaining does not work [b]at all[/b]; it requires the medic to abandon his pocket, which puts both at extreme risk, just to gain a few more seconds which are wasted anyways. Also the consumption rate eats away at half of the über-on-hit.
[/list]

[/quote]
Your first point is just wrong... The ubersaw is balanced around milliseconds per percent decrease, not consumption rate...[/quote]

How so? [url=https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Ubersaw#Damage_and_function_times]According to the TF2 wiki[/url], the Übersaw's attack rate is 0.96s ([url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7puuYqq_rgw]There is no additional delay since 0.96s is a multiple of 0.015[/url]). Medigun übers typically last eight seconds, so we can derive the consumption rate per second by diving 100 by 8; 100⁄8 = 12.5% über consumed per second. For reference the Übersaw's über-on-hit gives 25% über.

Since Übersaw's swing speed is 0.96s, we can safely assume that the total über will equal 12.5% after a second. Even ignoring the swing speed and only accounting for the base weapon switch speed of 0.5s, the consumption rate eats at 6% of the über-on-hit's 25%. Accounting for both the swing speed and base weapon switch speed (adds up to 1.46s), the consumption rate would be [b]18.25%[/b] über, meaning you'd only have 6.75% über left from the über-on-hit. All of this math assumes that decimals matter and that the über count isn't rounded.

TL;DR The über consumption rate [i]does[/i] eat away at half of the über-on-hit and this is my proof. At the very least the über consumption rate eats away 24% of the über-on-hit's über and at worst it can eat away 73% über. Again this assumes that these variables aren't rounded.
19
#19
3 Frags +

Head.

Head.
20
#20
6 Frags +

run whatever and dont listen to the nerds

run whatever and dont listen to the nerds
21
#21
15 Frags +
Adnurakwhy do english people say bow instead of arrow, actually ACTUALLY disgusting

syllabic minmaxing

[quote=Adnurak]why do english people say bow instead of arrow, actually ACTUALLY disgusting[/quote]
syllabic minmaxing
22
#22
27 Frags +
Adnurakwhy do english people say bow instead of arrow, actually ACTUALLY disgusting

Arrow isn't even the correct term, crossbows shoot bolts

[quote=Adnurak]why do english people say bow instead of arrow, actually ACTUALLY disgusting[/quote]
Arrow isn't even the correct term, crossbows shoot bolts
23
#23
-7 Frags +

solemn vow gets used a lot but my hot take is that it's fucking shit and used for teams where none of the dm classes can call focus. Ubersaw is a straight up CHAD weapon, no one remembers the medic meekly calling "soldier 10hp on me, on me OH MY GOD IM DEAD WHERE IS MY FUCKING POCKET SCOUT" apart from how fucking annoying the medic is. But that one ubersaw play that makes you hold last. Damn that shit lives in the history books

solemn vow gets used a lot but my hot take is that it's fucking shit and used for teams where none of the dm classes can call focus. Ubersaw is a straight up CHAD weapon, no one remembers the medic meekly calling "soldier 10hp on me, on me OH MY GOD IM DEAD WHERE IS MY FUCKING POCKET SCOUT" apart from how fucking annoying the medic is. But that one ubersaw play that makes you hold last. Damn that shit lives in the history books
24
#24
-13 Frags +
yak404solemn vow gets used a lot but my hot take is that it's fucking shit and used for teams where none of the dm classes can call focus. Ubersaw is a straight up CHAD weapon, no one remembers the medic meekly calling "soldier 10hp on me, on me OH MY GOD IM DEAD WHERE IS MY FUCKING POCKET SCOUT" apart from how fucking annoying the medic is. But that one ubersaw play that makes you hold last. Damn that shit lives in the history books

Calling damage ≠ Calling health. e.g Calling "Demo took 50" means that demo can be from 50 to 210 due to overheal, while calling "Demo IS 50" simply means that demo is at 50. You'd be suprised how many times people lost simply because they guessed the wrong amount of health, since they tracked using damage numbers. That is why Solemn Vow is so useful.

Übersaw plays are extremely rare in comp, because they require too many conditions to be true to be worth it.

[quote=yak404]solemn vow gets used a lot but my hot take is that it's fucking shit and used for teams where none of the dm classes can call focus. Ubersaw is a straight up CHAD weapon, no one remembers the medic meekly calling "soldier 10hp on me, on me OH MY GOD IM DEAD WHERE IS MY FUCKING POCKET SCOUT" apart from how fucking annoying the medic is. But that one ubersaw play that makes you hold last. Damn that shit lives in the history books[/quote]

Calling damage ≠ Calling health. e.g Calling "Demo took 50" means that demo can be from 50 to 210 due to overheal, while calling "Demo IS 50" simply means that demo is at 50. You'd be suprised how many times people lost simply because they guessed the wrong amount of health, since they tracked using damage numbers. [i]That[/i] is why Solemn Vow is so useful.

Übersaw plays are extremely rare in comp, because they require too many conditions to be true to be worth it.
25
#25
-24 Frags +
AbsoluteZeroAimIsADickcringeAh yes, uberchaining and taunt killing, the two pillars of the medic meta.?

Two overrated pillars of the medic META™.

[quote=AbsoluteZero][quote=AimIsADick]
cringe
[/quote]
Ah yes, uberchaining and taunt killing, the two pillars of the medic meta.?[/quote]

Two [i]overrated[/i] pillars of the medic [i]META[/i]™.
26
#26
21 Frags +
AimIsADick
How so? According to the TF2 wiki, the Übersaw's attack rate is 0.96s (There is no additional delay since 0.96s is a multiple of 0.015). Medigun übers typically last eight seconds, so we can derive the consumption rate per second by diving 100 by 8; 100⁄8 = 12.5% über consumed per second. For reference the Übersaw's über-on-hit gives 25% über.

Since Übersaw's swing speed is 0.96s, we can safely assume that the total über will equal 12.5% after a second. Even ignoring the swing speed and only accounting for the base weapon switch speed of 0.5s, the consumption rate eats at 6% of the über-on-hit's 25%. Accounting for both the swing speed and base weapon switch speed (adds up to 1.46s), the consumption rate would be 18.25% über, meaning you'd only have 6.75% über left from the über-on-hit. All of this math assumes that decimals matter and that the über count isn't rounded.

TL;DR The über consumption rate does eat away at half of the über-on-hit and this is my proof. At the very least the über consumption rate eats away 24% of the über-on-hit's über and at worst it can eat away 73% über. Again this assumes that these variables aren't rounded.

Man just frame timed us all over again

[quote=AimIsADick]

How so? [url=https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Ubersaw#Damage_and_function_times]According to the TF2 wiki[/url], the Übersaw's attack rate is 0.96s ([url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7puuYqq_rgw]There is no additional delay since 0.96s is a multiple of 0.015[/url]). Medigun übers typically last eight seconds, so we can derive the consumption rate per second by diving 100 by 8; 100⁄8 = 12.5% über consumed per second. For reference the Übersaw's über-on-hit gives 25% über.

Since Übersaw's swing speed is 0.96s, we can safely assume that the total über will equal 12.5% after a second. Even ignoring the swing speed and only accounting for the base weapon switch speed of 0.5s, the consumption rate eats at 6% of the über-on-hit's 25%. Accounting for both the swing speed and base weapon switch speed (adds up to 1.46s), the consumption rate would be [b]18.25%[/b] über, meaning you'd only have 6.75% über left from the über-on-hit. All of this math assumes that decimals matter and that the über count isn't rounded.

TL;DR The über consumption rate [i]does[/i] eat away at half of the über-on-hit and this is my proof. At the very least the über consumption rate eats away 24% of the über-on-hit's über and at worst it can eat away 73% über. Again this assumes that these variables aren't rounded.[/quote]

Man just frame timed us all over again
27
#27
-8 Frags +

Amputator mains rise up

Amputator mains rise up
28
#28
-15 Frags +
AimIsADickCalling damage ≠ Calling health. e.g Calling "Demo took 50" means that demo can be from 50 to 210 due to overheal, while calling "Demo IS 50" simply means that demo is at 50. You'd be suprised how many times people lost simply because they guessed the wrong amount of health, since they tracked using damage numbers. That is why Solemn Vow is so useful.

how can you be so wrong about how the game actually plays with such a high level of confidence in yourself

solemn vow is dwarfed in usefulness by proper focus calls, if your team is playing together properly, you can call focus on a player with any amount of HP and kill him if your positioning favours the play, you can reasonably call focus based off seeing shit that's only about to hit its target, stopping to visually confirm a player's HP before making a call rather than just communicating what people are doing to who and calling proper focus is wasting time that he will use to reposition, and every moment wasted means your chance to make that play evaporates

[quote=AimIsADick]Calling damage ≠ Calling health. e.g Calling "Demo took 50" means that demo can be from 50 to 210 due to overheal, while calling "Demo IS 50" simply means that demo is at 50. You'd be suprised how many times people lost simply because they guessed the wrong amount of health, since they tracked using damage numbers. [i]That[/i] is why Solemn Vow is so useful.[/quote]
how can you be so wrong about how the game actually plays with such a high level of confidence in yourself

solemn vow is dwarfed in usefulness by proper focus calls, if your team is playing together properly, you can call focus on a player with any amount of HP and kill him if your positioning favours the play, you can reasonably call focus based off seeing shit that's only about to hit its target, stopping to visually confirm a player's HP before making a call rather than just communicating what people are doing to who and calling proper focus is wasting time that he will use to reposition, and every moment wasted means your chance to make that play evaporates
29
#29
1 Frags +
AimIsADick

but why

[quote=AimIsADick]≠[/quote]
but why
30
#30
14 Frags +

this just in: local pubber AimIsADick gives in depth analysis on competitive play which he *checks notes* knows nothing about

this just in: local pubber AimIsADick gives in depth analysis on competitive play which he *checks notes* knows nothing about
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