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Discussion: rgl is bad
1
#1
0 Frags +

Don't let tftv distract you from the fact that rgl is being pretty awful in decision making.

If this gets put in dumpster then tftv says that rgl is good in every way.

Don't let tftv distract you from the fact that rgl is being pretty awful in decision making.

If this gets put in dumpster then tftv says that rgl is good in every way.
2
#2
3 Frags +

k

k
3
#3
59 Frags +

RGL actually takes money from people to scour map talk logs for naughty no-no word violations instead of banning known cheaters

RGL actually takes money from people to scour map talk logs for naughty no-no word violations instead of banning known cheaters
4
#4
53 Frags +

Remember when RGL just decided Froyotech was banned?

Remember when RGL just decided Froyotech was banned?
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#5
-8 Frags +

i'm gonna be honest and play devils advocate as an euro newcomer into rgl, the league is good in other aspects i dont understand why we dont play all the team in our div once but else i had no problems whatsoever, the map pool is fine, the whitelist is fine, and admins do listened to our tickets. Its just when i heard from someone that apparantly 28% players have been banned so far from rgl at least once I get worried. Of course the majority is cheaters and alts etc but still thats a pretty big number that can't be explained with just cheaters and trolls, right?

i'm gonna be honest and play devils advocate as an euro newcomer into rgl, the league is good in other aspects i dont understand why we dont play all the team in our div once but else i had no problems whatsoever, the map pool is fine, the whitelist is fine, and admins do listened to our tickets. Its just when i heard from someone that apparantly 28% players have been banned so far from rgl at least once I get worried. Of course the majority is cheaters and alts etc but still thats a pretty big number that can't be explained with just cheaters and trolls, right?
6
#6
12 Frags +

If a group of good teams wanted to organize some sort of alternative avenue of competition, even just a monthly cup, peoplee would be falling over themselves to join ad help out or cast games. Wouldn't be able to happen without a high level of gameplay tho.

That being said, I can't fault players who just want to keep their heads down and play the game. Rgl already has the infrastructure to make it happen without much time investment. But you could certainly organize cups with challenge or something.

If a group of good teams wanted to organize some sort of alternative avenue of competition, even just a monthly cup, peoplee would be falling over themselves to join ad help out or cast games. Wouldn't be able to happen without a high level of gameplay tho.

That being said, I can't fault players who just want to keep their heads down and play the game. Rgl already has the infrastructure to make it happen without much time investment. But you could certainly organize cups with challenge or something.
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#7
6 Frags +

lets form nword league guys

lets form nword league guys
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#8
26 Frags +

And you definitely don't let eurotrash paint it as the n word league

And you definitely don't let eurotrash paint it as the n word league
9
#9
5 Frags +

can someone fill me in on what rgl has done, i've been living under a rock, i heard they banned MAL for using the n-word in map reviews without a warning, what else did rgl do?

can someone fill me in on what rgl has done, i've been living under a rock, i heard they banned MAL for using the n-word in map reviews without a warning, what else did rgl do?
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#10
2 Frags +

then don't play it and don't give them money its THAT simple

then don't play it and don't give them money its THAT simple
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#11
-16 Frags +
aboOodcan someone fill me in on what rgl has done, i've been living under a rock, i heard they banned MAL for using the n-word in map reviews without a warning, what else did rgl do?

the problem is rgl is concerned with creating an online safe space rather than a competitive gaming league. they appoint weirdos to mod/admin that are not representative of the playerbase at all. the game is too small to be profitable, so therefore the game should belong to the community, not redditors (exa, sigafoo, makka, etc) that are trying to make the game "sponsor friendly".

[quote=aboOod]can someone fill me in on what rgl has done, i've been living under a rock, i heard they banned MAL for using the n-word in map reviews without a warning, what else did rgl do?[/quote]

the problem is rgl is concerned with creating an online safe space rather than a competitive gaming league. they appoint weirdos to mod/admin that are not representative of the playerbase at all. the game is too small to be profitable, so therefore the game should belong to the community, not redditors (exa, sigafoo, makka, etc) that are trying to make the game "sponsor friendly".
12
#12
TFNew
0 Frags +

the league can and should be able to be both a competitive gaming league and an online safe space.

the league can and should be able to be both a competitive gaming league and an online safe space.
13
#13
13 Frags +
randywaboOodcan someone fill me in on what rgl has done, i've been living under a rock, i heard they banned MAL for using the n-word in map reviews without a warning, what else did rgl do?
the problem is rgl is concerned with creating an online safe space rather than a competitive gaming league. they appoint weirdos to mod/admin that are not representative of the playerbase at all. the game is too small to be profitable, so therefore the game should belong to the community, not redditors (exa, sigafoo, makka, etc) that are trying to make the game "sponsor friendly".

this explanation is incredibly shortsighted. the problem isn't any individual admin, but the ruleset at large. blanket bans on slur usage and shit that actively punishes, for example, black ppl for saying the n word isn't going to go away if you switch the admins out, you'll just get another group of ppl doing the same thing. the actual problem is with how the rules are way too broad for no reason other than it means the moderation team doesn't have to actually moderate, just see bad word click ban.

[quote=randyw][quote=aboOod]can someone fill me in on what rgl has done, i've been living under a rock, i heard they banned MAL for using the n-word in map reviews without a warning, what else did rgl do?[/quote]

the problem is rgl is concerned with creating an online safe space rather than a competitive gaming league. they appoint weirdos to mod/admin that are not representative of the playerbase at all. the game is too small to be profitable, so therefore the game should belong to the community, not redditors (exa, sigafoo, makka, etc) that are trying to make the game "sponsor friendly".[/quote]
this explanation is incredibly shortsighted. the problem isn't any individual admin, but the ruleset at large. blanket bans on slur usage and shit that actively punishes, for example, black ppl for saying the n word isn't going to go away if you switch the admins out, you'll just get another group of ppl doing the same thing. the actual problem is with how the rules are way too broad for no reason other than it means the moderation team doesn't have to actually moderate, just see bad word click ban.
14
#14
-5 Frags +
knsumethis explanation is incredibly shortsighted. the problem isn't any individual admin, but the ruleset at large. blanket bans on slur usage and shit that actively punishes, for example, black ppl for saying the n word isn't going to go away if you switch the admins out, you'll just get another group of ppl doing the same thing. the actual problem is with how the rules are way too broad for no reason other than it means the moderation team doesn't have to actually moderate, just see bad word click ban.

the admins are the disease. the shitty, vague ruleset is just a symptom. many rgl decisions are made jointly by the admin team. given that MAL was an invite 6s team, i would say they most assuredly had an internal discussion about MAL before pulling the trigger on the bans.

[quote=knsume]this explanation is incredibly shortsighted. the problem isn't any individual admin, but the ruleset at large. blanket bans on slur usage and shit that actively punishes, for example, black ppl for saying the n word isn't going to go away if you switch the admins out, you'll just get another group of ppl doing the same thing. the actual problem is with how the rules are way too broad for no reason other than it means the moderation team doesn't have to actually moderate, just see bad word click ban.[/quote]

the admins are the disease. the shitty, vague ruleset is just a symptom. many rgl decisions are made jointly by the admin team. given that MAL was an invite 6s team, i would say they most assuredly had an internal discussion about MAL before pulling the trigger on the bans.
15
#15
8 Frags +
saci'm gonna be honest and play devils advocate as an euro newcomer into rgl, the league is good in other aspects i dont understand why we dont play all the team in our div once but else i had no problems whatsoever, the map pool is fine, the whitelist is fine, and admins do listened to our tickets. Its just when i heard from someone that apparantly 28% players have been banned so far from rgl at least once I get worried. Of course the majority is cheaters and alts etc but still thats a pretty big number that can't be explained with just cheaters and trolls, right?

iirc the list of banned players includes all the mirrored bans from esea/etf2l/etc, so the number is inflated by a lot of people who had never played rgl to begin with

though I have heard that rgl's 6s admins are less consistent/responsive/generally reasonable than their highlander admins (which kind of makes sense because all of their admins are highlander players)

[quote=sac]i'm gonna be honest and play devils advocate as an euro newcomer into rgl, the league is good in other aspects i dont understand why we dont play all the team in our div once but else i had no problems whatsoever, the map pool is fine, the whitelist is fine, and admins do listened to our tickets. Its just when i heard from someone that apparantly 28% players have been banned so far from rgl at least once I get worried. Of course the majority is cheaters and alts etc but still thats a pretty big number that can't be explained with just cheaters and trolls, right?[/quote]
iirc the list of banned players includes all the mirrored bans from esea/etf2l/etc, so the number is inflated by a lot of people who had never played rgl to begin with

though I have heard that rgl's 6s admins are less consistent/responsive/generally reasonable than their highlander admins (which kind of makes sense because all of their admins are highlander players)
16
#16
6 Frags +

Why is scratchh still banned

Why is scratchh still banned
17
#17
24 Frags +
yerbWhy is scratchh still banned

to expand on this, not only is scratchh still banned, he is banned for another 8 months because his only appeal got rejected.

[quote=yerb]Why is scratchh still banned[/quote]

to expand on this, not only is scratchh still banned, he is banned for another 8 months because his only appeal got rejected.
18
#18
22 Frags +
randyw the problem is rgl is concerned with creating an online safe space rather than a competitive gaming league. they appoint weirdos to mod/admin that are not representative of the playerbase at all. the game is too small to be profitable, so therefore the game should belong to the community, not redditors (exa, sigafoo, makka, etc) that are trying to make the game "sponsor friendly".

is it really that hard to create both a safe space and a competitive gaming league? a competitive gaming league doesn't have to be filled with slurs, but at the same time you shouldn't ban an invite team for using slurs in a map review. Why not just use a few warnings before banning people? wouldn't that just solve most of the problems relating to behavior, or am i over simplifying?

[quote=randyw] the problem is rgl is concerned with creating an online safe space rather than a competitive gaming league. they appoint weirdos to mod/admin that are not representative of the playerbase at all. the game is too small to be profitable, so therefore the game should belong to the community, not redditors (exa, sigafoo, makka, etc) that are trying to make the game "sponsor friendly".[/quote]

is it really that hard to create both a safe space and a competitive gaming league? a competitive gaming league doesn't have to be filled with slurs, but at the same time you shouldn't ban an invite team for using slurs in a map review. Why not just use a few warnings before banning people? wouldn't that just solve most of the problems relating to behavior, or am i over simplifying?
19
#19
5 Frags +
aboOodrandyw the problem is rgl is concerned with creating an online safe space rather than a competitive gaming league. they appoint weirdos to mod/admin that are not representative of the playerbase at all. the game is too small to be profitable, so therefore the game should belong to the community, not redditors (exa, sigafoo, makka, etc) that are trying to make the game "sponsor friendly".
is it really that hard to create both a safe space and a competitive gaming league? a competitive gaming league doesn't have to be filled with slurs, but at the same time you shouldn't ban an invite team for using slurs in a map review. Why not just use a few warnings before banning people? wouldn't that just solve most of the problems relating to behavior, or am i over simplifying?

you have correctly identified the problem with rgl

[quote=aboOod][quote=randyw] the problem is rgl is concerned with creating an online safe space rather than a competitive gaming league. they appoint weirdos to mod/admin that are not representative of the playerbase at all. the game is too small to be profitable, so therefore the game should belong to the community, not redditors (exa, sigafoo, makka, etc) that are trying to make the game "sponsor friendly".[/quote]

is it really that hard to create both a safe space and a competitive gaming league? a competitive gaming league doesn't have to be filled with slurs, but at the same time you shouldn't ban an invite team for using slurs in a map review. Why not just use a few warnings before banning people? wouldn't that just solve most of the problems relating to behavior, or am i over simplifying?[/quote]

you have correctly identified the problem with rgl
20
#20
12 Frags +
ghadilliyou have correctly identified the problem with rgl

so why are they acting that way? this is a genuine question. like is there a reason for them to act that way? im out of the loop when it comes to this whole thing.

[quote=ghadilli]you have correctly identified the problem with rgl[/quote]
so why are they acting that way? this is a genuine question. like is there a reason for them to act that way? im out of the loop when it comes to this whole thing.
21
#21
-6 Frags +

To be fair, there's no way to see that the chat messages in that log were from before the scrim started. We should probably make sure this wasn't a misunderstanding

To be fair, there's no way to see that the chat messages in that log were from before the scrim started. We should probably make sure this wasn't a misunderstanding
22
#22
3 Frags +

I thought you guys wanted consistency from RGL. Isn't the no slur rule the simplest and most consistent one?

I thought you guys wanted consistency from RGL. Isn't the no slur rule the simplest and most consistent one?
23
#23
2 Frags +
WackyfireballI thought you guys wanted consistency from RGL.

We want admins to do what's best for the community. When there are no victims, why should someone be punished?

[quote=Wackyfireball]I thought you guys wanted consistency from RGL.[/quote]
We want admins to do what's best for the community. When there are no victims, why should someone be punished?
24
#24
18 Frags +
aboOodso why are they acting that way? this is a genuine question. like is there a reason for them to act that way? im out of the loop when it comes to this whole thing.

basically it's a bunch of people that think they are morally superior dishing out bans because it makes them feel like they are contributing to society and ushering us into the sponsor friendly golden era of competitive tf2 but the most experienced of us know the ship has sailed so what you have left is a bunch of people doing busy work and patting themselves on the back because it feels good–all at the expense of the community.

[quote=aboOod]so why are they acting that way? this is a genuine question. like is there a reason for them to act that way? im out of the loop when it comes to this whole thing.[/quote]
basically it's a bunch of people that think they are morally superior dishing out bans because it makes them feel like they are contributing to society and ushering us into the sponsor friendly golden era of competitive tf2 but the most experienced of us know the ship has sailed so what you have left is a bunch of people doing busy work and patting themselves on the back because it feels good–all at the expense of the community.
25
#25
85 Frags +

a simple, blanket rule would maybe work for a giant esport that's covered by media, advertising, etc. obviously when there's millions and billions of dollars of investment on the line, you'd expect that league and its investors to not want that language tied directly to it. even then, something like this where a known player has allegedly done something "wrong," a league would do its due diligence and apply context

but this is tf2 where context is much more easily applicable, especially when that context is banning a black person for using the n word, when they don't even know it's something that will be seen by anyone else other than themselves and their friends. you guys have like 100 players, doesn't seem too hard to use context

a simple, blanket rule would maybe work for a giant esport that's covered by media, advertising, etc. obviously when there's millions and billions of dollars of investment on the line, you'd expect that league and its investors to not want that language tied directly to it. even then, something like this where a known player has allegedly done something "wrong," a league would do its due diligence and apply context

but this is tf2 where context is much more easily applicable, especially when that context is banning a black person for using the n word, when they don't even know it's something that will be seen by anyone else other than themselves and their friends. you guys have like 100 players, doesn't seem too hard to use context
26
#26
0 Frags +
HypnisTo be fair, there's no way to see that the chat messages in that log were from before the scrim started. We should probably make sure this wasn't a misunderstanding

Couldn't you watch the stv or a demo of the game or something?

[quote=Hypnis]To be fair, there's no way to see that the chat messages in that log were from before the scrim started. We should probably make sure this wasn't a misunderstanding[/quote]
Couldn't you watch the stv or a demo of the game or something?
27
#27
2 Frags +

man i just want to say it

man i just want to say it
28
#28
26 Frags +

can we also talk about the fact that RGL bans people without any warning?

if someone's alias having a chinese translation of a producer tag is deemed offensive enough to not be allowed in the league, the proper course of action is to *tell them*, same for the map review shit, giving a warning would have been entirely understandable and this whole situation would have been avoided

can we also talk about the fact that RGL bans people without any warning?

if someone's alias having a chinese translation of a producer tag is deemed offensive enough to not be allowed in the league, the proper course of action is to *tell them*, same for the map review shit, giving a warning would have been entirely understandable and this whole situation would have been avoided
29
#29
12 Frags +
bearodactylcan we also talk about the fact that RGL bans people without any warning?

if someone's alias having a chinese translation of a producer tag is deemed offensive enough to not be allowed in the league, the proper course of action is to *tell them*, same for the map review shit, giving a warning would have been entirely understandable and this whole situation would have been avoided

I said this about non-ban rgl decisions but it applies here
https://www.teamfortress.tv/post/1023308/rgl-season-5-invite-qualifiers

like clockwork says a bit of context would be nice in such a small community, but even barring that how about at least a lil transparency

unless this is like cheating and you can't reveal why someone was banned unless you teach other people new slurs to use??? that doesn't seem right!

[quote=bearodactyl]can we also talk about the fact that RGL bans people without any warning?

if someone's alias having a chinese translation of a producer tag is deemed offensive enough to not be allowed in the league, the proper course of action is to *tell them*, same for the map review shit, giving a warning would have been entirely understandable and this whole situation would have been avoided[/quote]

I said this about non-ban rgl decisions but it applies here
https://www.teamfortress.tv/post/1023308/rgl-season-5-invite-qualifiers

like clockwork says a bit of context would be nice in such a small community, but even barring that how about at least a lil transparency

unless this is like cheating and you can't reveal why someone was banned unless you teach other people new slurs to use??? that doesn't seem right!
30
#30
-14 Frags +

I feel like you guys are taking every opportunity to shit on RGL as much as possible in a tone that offers very little feedback or constructiveness of any kind to the Admins and moderators at rgl, someone explained in another thread that you'll be stuck in rgl anyways and that no other na league will pop up that can rival rgls playerbase, prize pool and get b4nny to leave, so theres no real point in just making threads to call their league bad and their admins biased and stupid

I feel like you guys are taking every opportunity to shit on RGL as much as possible in a tone that offers very little feedback or constructiveness of any kind to the Admins and moderators at rgl, someone explained in another thread that you'll be stuck in rgl anyways and that no other na league will pop up that can rival rgls playerbase, prize pool and get b4nny to leave, so theres no real point in just making threads to call their league bad and their admins biased and stupid
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