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Rename Whitelist.tf
1
#1
0 Frags +

According to some people, the use of the terms "whitelist/blacklist" is no longer appropriate for programs.

I thereby demand that the website http://whitelist.tf be renamed to allowlist.tf or passlist.tf which are terms that will not (for now) do offence to anyone.

According to [url=https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=49decddd39e5f6132ccd7d9fdc3d7c470b0061bb]some people[/url], the use of the terms "whitelist/blacklist" is no longer appropriate for programs.

I thereby demand that the website http://whitelist.tf be renamed to allowlist.tf or passlist.tf which are terms that will not (for now) do offence to anyone.
2
#2
23 Frags +

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/H_B69NgB7eE/hqdefault.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/H_B69NgB7eE/hqdefault.jpg
3
#3
6 Frags +

If you were to nix some coding jargon, you think "master" and "slave" would go first

If you were to nix some coding jargon, you think "master" and "slave" would go first
4
#4
10 Frags +
tsarIf you were to nix some coding jargon, you think "master" and "slave" would go first

that terminology has been getting phased out for a while now iirc

[quote=tsar]If you were to nix some coding jargon, you think "master" and "slave" would go first[/quote]
that terminology has been getting phased out for a while now iirc
5
#5
12 Frags +

my politics could be considered left wing, and i want everyone to be supported as equals, but this shit is going way too far. nobody is going to look at the word "whitelist" and think "hmm... white people"

my politics could be considered left wing, and i want everyone to be supported as equals, but this shit is going way too far. nobody is going to look at the word "whitelist" and think "hmm... white people"
6
#6
newbie.tf
11 Frags +

i thought whitelist came from blacklist which came from black books, which i didnt think had racist connotations, but i'm also not an etymologist or historian so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

i thought whitelist came from blacklist which came from black books, which i didnt think had racist connotations, but i'm also not an etymologist or historian so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
7
#7
38 Frags +

how the fuck can someone be offended by "blacklist"
seriously guys ...

how the fuck can someone be offended by "blacklist"
seriously guys ...
8
#8
-18 Frags +

you guys are sick and messed up

you guys are sick and messed up
9
#9
-1 Frags +

I've never thought of actual slavery when using the master/slave terminology, or with blacklist. They're just simple words to me and hold no significance whatsoever. Which is why I'm completely fine switching to primary/main if it helps others on a sensitive subject. I wonder what significance it holds for the people who strongly object and are willing to die on this hill.

Can't think of anything clearer than allow/deny to indicate allow and deny actions, and using black/white for negative/positive connotations is a carryover from racist times.

I've never thought of actual slavery when using the master/slave terminology, or with blacklist. They're just simple words to me and hold no significance whatsoever. Which is why I'm completely fine switching to primary/main if it helps others on a sensitive subject. I wonder what significance it holds for the people who strongly object and are willing to die on this hill.

Can't think of anything clearer than allow/deny to indicate allow and deny actions, and using black/white for negative/positive connotations is a carryover from racist times.
10
#10
-5 Frags +

This is why I hate liberals... I need my Trump...

This is why I hate liberals... I need my Trump...
11
#11
10 Frags +

You genuinely have to be brain damaged to come up with shit like this. People need to start going outside more instead of sitting at home and larping epick cultchural politicul twitter warriors. And this is coming from someone that's very much left wing

You genuinely have to be brain damaged to come up with shit like this. People need to start going outside more instead of sitting at home and larping epick cultchural politicul twitter warriors. And this is coming from someone that's very much left wing
12
#12
whitelist.tf
49 Frags +

Not happening.

Ingame convar is literally this:

mp_tournament_whitelist
Not happening.

Ingame convar is literally this:
[code]mp_tournament_whitelist[/code]
13
#13
TFNew
40 Frags +

bad attempt at a shitpost

bad attempt at a shitpost
14
#14
5 Frags +

is this a shitpost? can’t tell

is this a shitpost? can’t tell
15
#15
5 Frags +

At the risk of taking the bait, PC movements which actively try to change language like this turn out to be much more Orwellian than the terms they try to change are subversive. Yes, some terms will have very negative connotations and/or etymologies. but a judge of one's character and actions ought not to begin and end with the language/vocabulary they are born into, and the fix thereafter is not to try to 'fix' the language itself.

At the risk of taking the bait, PC movements which actively try to change language like this turn out to be much more Orwellian than the terms they try to change are subversive. Yes, some terms will have very negative connotations and/or etymologies. but a judge of one's character and actions ought not to begin and end with the language/vocabulary they are born into, and the fix thereafter is not to try to 'fix' the language itself.
16
#16
6 Frags +

The CIA worked really hard on this psyop, this is the least we could do as a community.

Also, corporations (i.e. GitHub/Microsoft) really push for this crap and then have ties to ICE and also develop drone software for the US government.

The CIA worked really hard on this psyop, this is the least we could do as a community.

Also, corporations (i.e. GitHub/Microsoft) really push for this crap and then have ties to ICE and also develop drone software for the US government.
17
#17
9 Frags +

stop putting white milk in black coffee

stop putting white milk in black coffee
18
#18
10 Frags +
JunkThe CIA worked really hard on this psyop, this is the least we could do as a community.

Also, corporations (i.e. GitHub/Microsoft) really push for this crap and then have ties to ICE and also develop drone software for the US government.

https://i.redd.it/h27z7sdko8851.jpg

[quote=Junk]The CIA worked really hard on this psyop, this is the least we could do as a community.

Also, corporations (i.e. GitHub/Microsoft) really push for this crap and then have ties to ICE and also develop drone software for the US government.[/quote]
[img]https://i.redd.it/h27z7sdko8851.jpg[/img]
19
#19
0 Frags +
SnackAt the risk of taking the bait, PC movements which actively try to change language like this turn out to be much more Orwellian than the terms they try to change are subversive. Yes, some terms will have very negative connotations and/or etymologies. but a judge of one's character and actions ought not to begin and end with the language/vocabulary they are born into, and the fix thereafter is not to try to 'fix' the language itself.

computer programmers changing terminology after decades is exactly what orwell predicted

[quote=Snack]At the risk of taking the bait, PC movements which actively try to change language like this turn out to be much more Orwellian than the terms they try to change are subversive. Yes, some terms will have very negative connotations and/or etymologies. but a judge of one's character and actions ought not to begin and end with the language/vocabulary they are born into, and the fix thereafter is not to try to 'fix' the language itself.[/quote]
computer programmers changing terminology after decades is exactly what orwell predicted
20
#20
3 Frags +

this post is bad and it makes me feel bad

this post is bad and it makes me feel bad
21
#21
10 Frags +

racism is no more

racism is no more
22
#22
-5 Frags +

Everyone agrees this is basically a meaningless change. I think the argument is that avoiding future use of these terms is SO trivial that one may as well pick the nicer terminology (that tends to be more descriptive and universal anyway...) :-/. Basically, it's more trivial than it is meaningless.
These only exist because some guys were lazy with their naming like 40 years ago and they happened to become convention, because of what they describe, not how well they describe.

I've read through a bunch of the mailing list about this. It seems like most people were fine with it or liked it :-/.

Kernel Mailing ListReally, "blacklist" too?

While 'slave' has a direct connection to human suffering the etymology
of 'blacklist' is devoid of a historical racial connection. However, one
thought exercise is to consider replacing 'blacklist/whitelist' with
'redlist/greenlist'. Realize that the replacement only makes sense if
you have been socialized with the concepts that 'red/green' implies
'stop/go'. Colors to represent a policy requires an indirection. The
socialization of 'black/white' to have the connotation of
'impermissible/permissible' does not support inclusion.

A great reason? Not really, but trying to be nicer is nice and, again, this change is so easy it's absurd :-/
kernel people are smart. I don't think using "allowlist" in the future will really affect their productivity.

Better for an international community too :-)

Some non-native English speaker on mailing listAllowlist/denylist terms are intuitive and action based which have a
globally uniform meaning.

Terms such as "whitelist" etc are contextual, hence assume contextual
knowledge on the part of the reader.

TL;DR: the new stuff is a trivial change, probably nicer, and are better descriptors anyway.

Everyone agrees this is basically a meaningless change. I think the argument is that avoiding future use of these terms is SO trivial that one may as well pick the nicer terminology (that tends to be more descriptive and universal anyway...) :-/. Basically, it's more trivial than it is meaningless.
These only exist because some guys were lazy with their naming like 40 years ago and they happened to become convention, because of what they describe, not how well they describe.

I've read through a bunch of the mailing list about this. It seems like most people were fine with it or liked it :-/.

[quote=Kernel Mailing List]
Really, "blacklist" too?

While 'slave' has a direct connection to human suffering the etymology
of 'blacklist' is devoid of a historical racial connection. However, one
thought exercise is to consider replacing 'blacklist/whitelist' with
'redlist/greenlist'. Realize that the replacement only makes sense if
you have been socialized with the concepts that 'red/green' implies
'stop/go'. Colors to represent a policy requires an indirection. The
socialization of 'black/white' to have the connotation of
'impermissible/permissible' does not support inclusion.[/quote]
A great reason? Not really, but trying to be nicer is nice and, again, this change is so easy it's absurd :-/
kernel people are smart. I don't think using "allowlist" in the future will really affect their productivity.

Better for an international community too :-)
[quote=Some non-native English speaker on mailing list]
Allowlist/denylist terms are intuitive and action based which have a
globally uniform meaning.

Terms such as "whitelist" etc are contextual, hence assume contextual
knowledge on the part of the reader.[/quote]

TL;DR: the new stuff is a trivial change, probably nicer, and are better descriptors anyway.
23
#23
3 Frags +

Jay Z: Ths Person Album
Mos Def: A Human Being on Both Sides
The Beatles: The Album
David Bowie, the Thin Cocaine Duke
Oil, non gold-coloured gold

Jay Z: Ths Person Album
Mos Def: A Human Being on Both Sides
The Beatles: The Album
David Bowie, the Thin Cocaine Duke
Oil, non gold-coloured gold
24
#24
5 Frags +
WiethoofdNot happening.

Ingame convar is literally this:
mp_tournament_whitelist

literal beast

[quote=Wiethoofd]Not happening.

Ingame convar is literally this:
[code]mp_tournament_whitelist[/code][/quote]
literal beast
25
#25
11 Frags +

literally nobody cares about performative shit like this and it just gives dumbass righties ammo to say "look at these CrAzY leftists trying to cancel the word "whitelist"!!!

twitter did the same thing

literally nobody cares about performative shit like this and it just gives dumbass righties ammo to say "look at these CrAzY leftists trying to cancel the word "whitelist"!!!

twitter did the same thing
26
#26
-1 Frags +
Bob_MarleyBetter for an international community too :-)

This empty corporate performativity feels like something mostly (only?) Americans want.

flatlineliterally nobody cares about performative shit like this and it just gives dumbass righties ammo to say "look at these CrAzY leftists trying to cancel the word "whitelist"!!!

twitter did the same thing

lmao Twitter's changes were much funnier.

[quote=Bob_Marley]Better for an international community too :-)[/quote]

This empty corporate performativity feels like something mostly (only?) Americans want.

[quote=flatline]literally nobody cares about performative shit like this and it just gives dumbass righties ammo to say "look at these CrAzY leftists trying to cancel the word "whitelist"!!!

twitter did the same thing[/quote]

lmao Twitter's [url=https://twitter.com/TwitterEng/status/1278733305190342656]changes[/url] were much funnier.
27
#27
10 Frags +

making real issues (police violence) into a joke by making trivial changes nobody asks for!!! I love corporations!!!!!!!

making real issues (police violence) into a joke by making trivial changes nobody asks for!!! I love corporations!!!!!!!
28
#28
7 Frags +

This racism wouldn't happen if we didn't have a whitelist.

This racism wouldn't happen if we didn't have a [i]whitelist[/i].
29
#29
0 Frags +
JunkBob_MarleyBetter for an international community too :-)
This empty corporate performativity feels like something mostly (only?) Americans want.

(I say this partially as a joke since most maintainers work for big companies, but)
Linux is the free, open source project that most normal people have never heard of, is maintained by an international community, and was started by a notoriously hostile student from Finland... Doesn't really fit the definition of "corporate" and there's not much of an audience for it to be performative.

I agree no one really cares about these changes... I am personally annoyed by companies like Github being dumb.
My point is that just in the context of a project, this change is just so easy it won't affect development and it's maybe nicer, so if most people are fine with it, why not? Idk. Maybe I'm just being naive :-(

[quote=Junk][quote=Bob_Marley]Better for an international community too :-)[/quote]

This empty corporate performativity feels like something mostly (only?) Americans want.[/quote]

(I say this partially as a joke since most maintainers work for big companies, but)
Linux is the free, open source project that most normal people have never heard of, is maintained by an international community, and was started by a notoriously hostile student from Finland... Doesn't really fit the definition of "corporate" and there's not much of an audience for it to be performative.

I agree no one really cares about these changes... I am personally annoyed by companies like Github being dumb.
My point is that just in the context of a project, this change is just so easy it won't affect development and it's maybe nicer, so if most people are fine with it, why not? Idk. Maybe I'm just being naive :-(
30
#30
4 Frags +
Natalbeemaking real issues (police violence) into a joke by making trivial changes nobody asks for!!! I love corporations!!!!!!!

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/462394821072650250/727391571749634108/EbmMw9RXYAAFoS1.png

:|

[quote=Natalbee]making real issues (police violence) into a joke by making trivial changes nobody asks for!!! I love corporations!!!!!!![/quote]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/462394821072650250/727391571749634108/EbmMw9RXYAAFoS1.png

:|
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