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KritzKast make their VOD's subscriber only
1
#1
0 Frags +

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESijCx5XsAAAGZm?format=jpg&name=large

I don't think you should be making people pay to watch their own match VOD's

Can you please explain your decision to do this?

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESijCx5XsAAAGZm?format=jpg&name=large[/img]

I don't think you should be making people pay to watch their own match VOD's

Can you please explain your decision to do this?
2
#2
6 Frags +

https://youtu.be/AA_v54Uco-o have you checked their youtube? at least this particular match is there

https://youtu.be/AA_v54Uco-o have you checked their youtube? at least this particular match is there
3
#3
23 Frags +

Watching the games back on twitch is always better, at least in my opinion, you get to see the chat and don't have to wait for the youtube upload.

Plus its a little bit merky, while yes they are the ones taking the time to produce the match, its still not them playing. Feels a little off to have to pay $5 a month to watch matches of myself playing.

Watching the games back on twitch is always better, at least in my opinion, you get to see the chat and don't have to wait for the youtube upload.

Plus its a little bit merky, while yes they are the ones taking the time to produce the match, its still not them playing. Feels a little off to have to pay $5 a month to watch matches of myself playing.
4
#4
46 Frags +

paying to watch a single vod of a match is more expensive than the game itself

paying to watch a single vod of a match is more expensive than the game itself
5
#5
18 Frags +

on the one hand production is a fucking pain in the ass and i get wanting to receive some kind of compensation for it

on the other hand, they're not passing any compensation to the players
or the league
or valve
and probably not to the actual casters and producers either?
so this seems shady as fuck. if you really want money out of this right now, you either gotta work on making tf2 a big boy esport (good luck) or get advertisers. it's comp tf2, and reality is 99% of the time whatever you do here has to be motivated by love of the game and nothing else.

on the one hand production is a fucking pain in the ass and i get wanting to receive some kind of compensation for it

on the other hand, they're not passing any compensation to the players
or the league
or valve
and probably not to the actual casters and producers either?
so this seems shady as fuck. if you really want money out of this right now, you either gotta work on making tf2 a big boy esport (good luck) or get advertisers. it's comp tf2, and reality is 99% of the time whatever you do here has to be motivated by love of the game and nothing else.
6
#6
eXtelevision
4 Frags +
Menachemand probably not to the actual casters and producers either?

They have shared revenue with casters.

Menachemor the league

that's kind of a chicken and the egg sort of scenario. There have been other incidents in the past where a broadcaster has gotten screwed out of covering a match by a different broadcaster who didn't have any sort of eXclusivity agreement with the league. If a broadcast org is making revenue and wants eXclusivity to a broadcast, then they could actually pay the league for that eXclusive right to to broadcast the match/league.

[quote=Menachem]and probably not to the actual casters and producers either?[/quote]

They have shared revenue with casters.

[quote=Menachem]or the league[/quote] that's kind of a chicken and the egg sort of scenario. There have been other incidents in the past where a broadcaster has gotten screwed out of covering a match by a different broadcaster who didn't have any sort of eXclusivity agreement with the league. If a broadcast org is making revenue and wants eXclusivity to a broadcast, then they could actually pay the league for that eXclusive right to to broadcast the match/league.
7
#7
0 Frags +

based and red-pilled

based and red-pilled
8
#8
-7 Frags +

tough call. it seems like if you want to watch your matches back you have a couple of options:

-stream yourself
-watch the demo
-watch the cast

and the last one is the only one you can't do for free. it's also the only one where a third party adds value (assuming you think the casts are good).

however, everything you said about the players providing the entertainment is true.

tough call. it seems like if you want to watch your matches back you have a couple of options:

-stream yourself
-watch the demo
-watch the cast

and the last one is the only one you can't do for free. it's also the only one where a third party adds value (assuming you think the casts are good).

however, everything you said about the players providing the entertainment is true.
9
#9
17 Frags +

everyone trying to get the bag from kritkasts 10 subscribers

everyone trying to get the bag from kritkasts 10 subscribers
10
#10
47 Frags +
eXtineMenachemand probably not to the actual casters and producers either?
They have shared revenue with casters.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ba/05/16/ba051694aa42b02d66613dcd1a6175eb.jpg

me, dumm and archrhythm after casting bumfreeze lose 5-0 to mia

[quote=eXtine][quote=Menachem]and probably not to the actual casters and producers either?[/quote]

They have shared revenue with casters.
[/quote]
[img]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ba/05/16/ba051694aa42b02d66613dcd1a6175eb.jpg[/img]
me, dumm and archrhythm after casting bumfreeze lose 5-0 to mia
11
#11
7 Frags +

If I can't even get to watch the vods for the games I participate in myself without paying $5 a month, can we just get rid of this rule and actually have production people use the CastingEssentials plugin that allows them to change the names for the viewers anyway? I don't like the idea of getting minor warnings for not conforming to rules that are helping out a third party that I can't even watch without paying a monthly fee.

I get it, there's fuck all people who want to do production and you're looking to compensate these people + the casters in some way, but I think there's better ways to incentivize people to support your cause than making content on games the very people who are playing in it can't watch themselves.

If I can't even get to watch the vods for the games I participate in myself without paying $5 a month, can we just get rid of [url=http://etf2l.org/rules/general-rules-2/#2.2.2]this rule[/url] and actually have production people use the CastingEssentials plugin that allows them to [url=https://github.com/PazerOP/CastingEssentials/wiki/Player-Aliases]change the names for the viewers anyway[/url]? I don't like the idea of getting minor warnings for not conforming to rules that are helping out a third party that I can't even watch without paying a monthly fee.

I get it, there's fuck all people who want to do production and you're looking to compensate these people + the casters in some way, but I think there's better ways to incentivize people to support your cause than making content on games the very people who are playing in it can't watch themselves.
12
#12
4 Frags +
AdjeIf I can't even get to watch the vods for the games I participate in myself without paying $5 a month, can we just get rid of this rule and actually have production people use the CastingEssentials plugin that allows them to change the names for the viewers anyway? I don't like the idea of getting minor warnings for not conforming to rules that are helping out a third party that I can't even watch without paying a monthly fee.

I get it, there's fuck all people who want to do production and you're looking to compensate these people + the casters in some way, but I think there's better ways to incentivize people to support your cause than making content on games the very people who are playing in it can't watch themselves.

tbf the rule should stay with CE or not. if you are at a high enough level to be casted you should have some form of "professionalism"

[quote=Adje]If I can't even get to watch the vods for the games I participate in myself without paying $5 a month, can we just get rid of [url=http://etf2l.org/rules/general-rules-2/#2.2.2]this rule[/url] and actually have production people use the CastingEssentials plugin that allows them to [url=https://github.com/PazerOP/CastingEssentials/wiki/Player-Aliases]change the names for the viewers anyway[/url]? I don't like the idea of getting minor warnings for not conforming to rules that are helping out a third party that I can't even watch without paying a monthly fee.

I get it, there's fuck all people who want to do production and you're looking to compensate these people + the casters in some way, but I think there's better ways to incentivize people to support your cause than making content on games the very people who are playing in it can't watch themselves.[/quote]
tbf the rule should stay with CE or not. if you are at a high enough level to be casted you should have some form of "professionalism"
13
#13
KritzKast
22 Frags +

TL;DR: Some content is behind a firewall because we wanted to give people who sub to KritzKast a decent reason to do it. KritzKast is and has always been broke as shit.

We've been casting HL matches for a few years and started 6s coverage quite recently. We made the decision to pay casters and production for their time because it's the right thing to do. Everyone puts so much effort in and I didn't see why I should profit just for being the dude that owned the channel.

I'm not sure if this breaks twitch TOS but here goes anyway. We have 6 subscribers, and this is a record for us.

2 are awesome people who've been with us for so many years I've lost track. I doubt that either of them will read this as they're not super into comp but they've supported the channel forever and I love them for it.
2 are on the comp production team. It doesn't make financial sense for them to sub, but they do anyway, cos fuck yeah TF2.
1 is an awesome friend of mine. I sub back to him cos I like his content. For the record I use my money to sub to him, but it shows up "kritzkast" cos that's my twitch account. I should make a personal account for this, and likely I will eventually.
1 is new as of this month, I don't recognise the name but yay! Thanks random person whoever you are.

Very, very occasionally, with the merch, the patreon and YT/Twitch ad. rev. we break even. Most of the time we don't. Everything we have ever earned has gone back into the channel and out to the talent in one way or another. We push all content to YT (it all gets there eventually (it's nearly always on me if it's delayed, sorry)). So we were hoping firewalling old Twitch content would entice people to sub and give those that have a justification for doing so.

TL;DR: Some content is behind a firewall because we wanted to give people who sub to KritzKast a decent reason to do it. KritzKast is and has always been broke as shit.

We've been casting HL matches for a few years and started 6s coverage quite recently. We made the decision to pay casters and production for their time because it's the right thing to do. Everyone puts so much effort in and I didn't see why I should profit just for being the dude that owned the channel.

I'm not sure if this breaks twitch TOS but here goes anyway. We have [b]6[/b] subscribers, and this is a record for us.

2 are awesome people who've been with us for so many years I've lost track. I doubt that either of them will read this as they're not super into comp but they've supported the channel forever and I love them for it.
2 are on the comp production team. It doesn't make financial sense for them to sub, but they do anyway, cos fuck yeah TF2.
1 is an awesome friend of mine. I sub back to him cos I like his content. For the record I use my money to sub to him, but it shows up "kritzkast" cos that's my twitch account. I should make a personal account for this, and likely I will eventually.
1 is new as of this month, I don't recognise the name but yay! Thanks random person whoever you are.

Very, very occasionally, with the merch, the patreon and YT/Twitch ad. rev. we break even. Most of the time we don't. Everything we have ever earned has gone back into the channel and out to the talent in one way or another. We push all content to YT (it all gets there eventually (it's nearly always on me if it's delayed, sorry)). So we were hoping firewalling old Twitch content would entice people to sub and give those that have a justification for doing so.
14
#14
3 Frags +

So you made the VOD's subscriber only to entice people to sub, but the only people that subbed are your friends who would have done it anyway? Sounds epic, community definitely on board.

So you made the VOD's subscriber only to entice people to sub, but the only people that subbed are your friends who would have done it anyway? Sounds epic, community definitely on board.
15
#15
Essentials.TF
11 Frags +
AdjeIf I can't even get to watch the vods for the games I participate in myself without paying $5 a month, can we just get rid of this rule and actually have production people use the CastingEssentials plugin that allows them to change the names for the viewers anyway? I don't like the idea of getting minor warnings for not conforming to rules that are helping out a third party that I can't even watch without paying a monthly fee.

I get it, there's fuck all people who want to do production and you're looking to compensate these people + the casters in some way, but I think there's better ways to incentivize people to support your cause than making content on games the very people who are playing in it can't watch themselves.

I get your point but I'm not sure why my and my fellow producer's jobs should be made harder because of one decision made above our heads. I don't like having to set aliases because 1) it can remove certain tags from names, e.g. if an org has all their players tagged up (Ascent. Papi or whatever) or if they have a charity org in their name like a few people do when hugs, toth, blapbash w/e rolls around. and 2) it's extra effort to do which usually means I have to take my eyes off the observing to download the aliases (from twiikuu's super super helpful tool, seriously what a don), put them in my config and then exec them, if you get a chance to watch the vod from last night's match on YT there's a period of time when I had to do this because one of the teams didn't tag up after they knew they were being casted and one even had the R word in it. Finally 3) the names don't change serverside, so when we're looking for players/servers we usually have to go off of their nicks and if they're not tagged up correctly it's a lot harder to find them (on serveme reservations, in the server browser etc.) and also their names don't change on the cheat feed so for the observers that use it they have to work out who people are based on matching their fakenicks with their nicks on screen, plus not every caster has it set up either, so they may be casting off of different names that the stream will see.

The tool is an incredibly useful one and one that I'm glad I can use but I'd rather it be a last resort. Also note how this is only one org out of 3 that currently cover ETF2L games, so I'm not sure removing a rule that improves the stream and the producer's QOL for all orgs because of one's decision.

[quote=Adje]If I can't even get to watch the vods for the games I participate in myself without paying $5 a month, can we just get rid of [url=http://etf2l.org/rules/general-rules-2/#2.2.2]this rule[/url] and actually have production people use the CastingEssentials plugin that allows them to [url=https://github.com/PazerOP/CastingEssentials/wiki/Player-Aliases]change the names for the viewers anyway[/url]? I don't like the idea of getting minor warnings for not conforming to rules that are helping out a third party that I can't even watch without paying a monthly fee.

I get it, there's fuck all people who want to do production and you're looking to compensate these people + the casters in some way, but I think there's better ways to incentivize people to support your cause than making content on games the very people who are playing in it can't watch themselves.[/quote]

I get your point but I'm not sure why my and my fellow producer's jobs should be made harder because of one decision made above our heads. I don't like having to set aliases because 1) it can remove certain tags from names, e.g. if an org has all their players tagged up (Ascent. Papi or whatever) or if they have a charity org in their name like a few people do when hugs, toth, blapbash w/e rolls around. and 2) it's extra effort to do which usually means I have to take my eyes off the observing to download the aliases (from twiikuu's super super helpful tool, seriously what a don), put them in my config and then exec them, if you get a chance to watch the vod from last night's match on YT there's a period of time when I had to do this because one of the teams didn't tag up after they knew they were being casted and one even had the R word in it. Finally 3) the names don't change serverside, so when we're looking for players/servers we usually have to go off of their nicks and if they're not tagged up correctly it's a lot harder to find them (on serveme reservations, in the server browser etc.) and also their names don't change on the cheat feed so for the observers that use it they have to work out who people are based on matching their fakenicks with their nicks on screen, plus not every caster has it set up either, so they may be casting off of different names that the stream will see.

The tool is an incredibly useful one and one that I'm glad I can use but I'd rather it be a last resort. Also note how this is only one org out of 3 that currently cover ETF2L games, so I'm not sure removing a rule that improves the stream and the producer's QOL for all orgs because of one's decision.
16
#16
6 Frags +

The sub money goes towards the production team. Even the guys that make SFM pictures for KK get paid, they're the only TF2 place that's offered me real money. I imagine that KK being ran at a loss for so long probably started to annoy Agro so he's done this to make the loss smaller.

Don't they get uploaded to youtube later for free anyway?

The sub money goes towards the production team. Even the guys that make SFM pictures for KK get paid, they're the only TF2 place that's offered me real money. I imagine that KK being ran at a loss for so long probably started to annoy Agro so he's done this to make the loss smaller.

Don't they get uploaded to youtube later for free anyway?
17
#17
KritzKast
12 Frags +
SirDuckI imagine that KK being ran at a loss for so long probably started to annoy Agro

I'm not annoyed by it... but, it's not a great feeling either. We've been loosing less each year for the last few years so it's getting less shit. I'm gambling that moving the podcast stream off the twitch channel so that it's now 100% comp will show that we're serious about our TF2 coverage. And that maybe 2020 will be profitable enough to buy a round at LAN.

[quote=SirDuck]I imagine that KK being ran at a loss for so long probably started to annoy Agro [/quote]

I'm not annoyed by it... but, it's not a great feeling either. We've been loosing less each year for the last few years so it's getting less shit. I'm gambling that moving the podcast stream off the twitch channel so that it's now 100% comp will show that we're serious about our TF2 coverage. And that maybe 2020 will be profitable enough to buy a round at LAN.
18
#18
RGL.gg
24 Frags +

So let's break this down

- Multiple volunteers are putting in their free time and energy to create a production
- You deem this thing as having value, since you want to view it
- They are simply trying to get a little bit of money that they can pass along to the people who put together the cast and cover their expenses

- you can still download an STV and watch it back yourself
- you can still watch it live for free
- you can still watch it when it gets uploaded to youtube for free
- It's still free if you have amazon prime and use your gift sub with them

So a group of people who volunteer their free time, energy and effort into something that has value to you, and some of you are incredulous that they're asking for a small donation to help support what they do? When you still have plenty of options to watch it for free, if you don't wish to support them financially.

This is being made into a bigger issue than what it is. Either you can support them, because you appreciate what they provide to the community or just use one of the other options to get it for free.

So let's break this down

- Multiple volunteers are putting in their free time and energy to create a production
- You deem this thing as having value, since you want to view it
- They are simply trying to get a little bit of money that they can pass along to the people who put together the cast and cover their expenses


- you can still download an STV and watch it back yourself
- you can still watch it live for free
- you can still watch it when it gets uploaded to youtube for free
- It's still free if you have amazon prime and use your gift sub with them

So a group of people who volunteer their free time, energy and effort into something that has value to you, and some of you are incredulous that they're asking for a small donation to help support what they do? When you still have plenty of options to watch it for free, if you don't wish to support them financially.

This is being made into a bigger issue than what it is. Either you can support them, because you appreciate what they provide to the community or just use one of the other options to get it for free.
19
#19
-4 Frags +
sigafooSo a group of people who volunteer their free time, energy and effort into something that has value to you, and some of you are incredulous that they're asking for a small donation to help support what they do?

Then it's not volunteering

[quote=sigafoo]
So [b]a group of people who volunteer[/b] their free time, energy and effort into something that has value to you, and some of you are incredulous that [b]they're asking for a small donation[/b] to help support what they do?[/quote]

Then it's not volunteering
20
#20
1 Frags +

im gonna sub

im gonna sub
21
#21
KritzKast
8 Frags +
NiksigafooSo a group of people who volunteer their free time, energy and effort
Then it's not volunteering

I'd equate it to volunteers at a soup kitchen getting a cup of tea at the end of a shift. Maybe just a glass of water. Maybe a small glass of water every other shift. Tap water. Are you still okay to claim this doesn't make them volunteers?

edited for clarity

[quote=Nik][quote=sigafoo]
So [b]a group of people who volunteer[/b] their free time, energy and effort[/quote]

Then it's not volunteering[/quote]
I'd equate it to volunteers at a soup kitchen getting a cup of tea at the end of a shift. Maybe just a glass of water. Maybe a small glass of water every other shift. Tap water. Are you still okay to claim this doesn't make them volunteers?

[i]edited for clarity[/i]
22
#22
KritzKast
5 Frags +
orianoim gonna sub

Thank you.

[quote=oriano]im gonna sub[/quote]
Thank you.
23
#23
whitelist.tf
9 Frags +

The VODs always get exported to YouTube anyway, so you can wait up to a week for vods of online casted games to show up there.

My main take away to twitch/mixer vods is that you [literally anyone] is not entitled to them, of any channel, a broadcaster is even able to do a 'sub only' stream; imagine blocking viewers off to content like that :X

It is a lot of time, money and effort that goes in to making overlays, running the mumble/node servers to keep those available, actually observing & casting the games; we're asking for a small kickback so we [the people involved in the production of a cast] don't burn out for putting in time and work without any reward.

Happy to see at least the fact games are being casted appreciated!

The VODs always get exported to YouTube anyway, so you can wait up to a week for vods of online casted games to show up there.

My main take away to twitch/mixer vods is that you [literally anyone] is not entitled to them, of any channel, a broadcaster is even able to do a 'sub only' stream; imagine blocking viewers off to content like that :X

It is a lot of time, money and effort that goes in to making overlays, running the mumble/node servers to keep those available, actually observing & casting the games; we're asking for a small kickback so we [the people involved in the production of a cast] don't burn out for putting in time and work without any reward.

Happy to see at least the fact games are being casted appreciated!
24
#24
-3 Frags +
AgroI'd equate it to volunteers at a soup kitchen getting a cup of tea at the end of a shift. Maybe just a glass of water. Maybe a small glass of water every other shift. Tap water. Are you still okay to claim this doesn't make them volunteers?

edited for clarity

If they are asking for it, then they are not volunteers.

If it's just your intention (as an owner/organizer/the person who brought them together) to support them this way, then they are still volunteers.

[quote=Agro]
I'd equate it to volunteers at a soup kitchen getting a cup of tea at the end of a shift. Maybe just a glass of water. Maybe a small glass of water every other shift. Tap water. Are you still okay to claim this doesn't make them volunteers?

[i]edited for clarity[/i][/quote]
If they are asking for it, then they are not volunteers.

If it's just your intention (as an owner/organizer/the person who brought them together) to support them this way, then they are still volunteers.
25
#25
5 Frags +

I cant speak for everyone but i guess i might aswell make it clear that the european casts on kritzcast are done more for the sake of doing a cast than wanting to do anything serious. Since prem is a bit dire right now there are plenty of nights where we have casters + producers available and not having any prem game to cast. There is no ulterior motive, kritzcast just happens to be the platform used.

I cant speak for everyone but i guess i might aswell make it clear that the european casts on kritzcast are done more for the sake of doing a cast than wanting to do anything serious. Since prem is a bit dire right now there are plenty of nights where we have casters + producers available and not having any prem game to cast. There is no ulterior motive, kritzcast just happens to be the platform used.
26
#26
KritzKast
10 Frags +
NikIf it's just your intention (as an owner/organizer/the person who brought them together) to support them this way, then they are still volunteers.

No-one was asking for it.
Just seemed like the right/only thing to do.
Glad we can agree.

[quote=Nik]If it's just your intention (as an owner/organizer/the person who brought them together) to support them this way, then they are still volunteers.[/quote]
No-one was asking for it.
Just seemed like the right/only thing to do.
Glad we can agree.
27
#27
4 Frags +
sigafooSo let's break this down

- Multiple volunteers are putting in their free time and energy to create a production
- You deem this thing as having value, since you want to view it
- They are simply trying to get a little bit of money that they can pass along to the people who put together the cast and cover their expenses

- you can still download an STV and watch it back yourself
- you can still watch it live for free
- you can still watch it when it gets uploaded to youtube for free
- It's still free if you have amazon prime and use your gift sub with them

So a group of people who volunteer their free time, energy and effort into something that has value to you, and some of you are incredulous that they're asking for a small donation to help support what they do? When you still have plenty of options to watch it for free, if you don't wish to support them financially.

This is being made into a bigger issue than what it is. Either you can support them, because you appreciate what they provide to the community or just use one of the other options to get it for free.

Well said.

[quote=sigafoo]So let's break this down

- Multiple volunteers are putting in their free time and energy to create a production
- You deem this thing as having value, since you want to view it
- They are simply trying to get a little bit of money that they can pass along to the people who put together the cast and cover their expenses


- you can still download an STV and watch it back yourself
- you can still watch it live for free
- you can still watch it when it gets uploaded to youtube for free
- It's still free if you have amazon prime and use your gift sub with them

So a group of people who volunteer their free time, energy and effort into something that has value to you, and some of you are incredulous that they're asking for a small donation to help support what they do? When you still have plenty of options to watch it for free, if you don't wish to support them financially.

This is being made into a bigger issue than what it is. Either you can support them, because you appreciate what they provide to the community or just use one of the other options to get it for free.[/quote]

Well said.
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