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Announcing ETF2L Season 33
1
#1
0 Frags +

http://etf2l.org/2019/05/18/announcing-season-33/

http://etf2l.org/2019/05/18/announcing-season-33/
2
#2
42 Frags +

9 Map Season

https://i.imgur.com/3iVaWlV.jpg

9 Map Season
[img]https://i.imgur.com/3iVaWlV.jpg[/img]
3
#3
1 Frags +

Glad feedback from last season is being taken into account especially in regard GCs (even more so from a not having to cast 30min GC perspective) and playoff structure.
Im still a bit sceptical towards the 9 maps thing but not really because "New maps bad", we easily have enough alright maps that that could work, but moreso for the reason that knowing you will only have to play it once and it likely seeming llike the map that will be replaced going forward it will discourage people from practicing it, tho at the same time the same arguement can be made for any map added in recent memory, just playing it once seems like even more of an autoban once in playoffs for most people where atleast you could rely on 2 full weeks of practice. Probably best to have it be a new Koth map tbh

Glad feedback from last season is being taken into account especially in regard GCs (even more so from a not having to cast 30min GC perspective) and playoff structure.
Im still a bit sceptical towards the 9 maps thing but not really because "New maps bad", we easily have enough alright maps that that could work, but moreso for the reason that knowing you will only have to play it once and it likely seeming llike the map that will be replaced going forward it will discourage people from practicing it, tho at the same time the same arguement can be made for any map added in recent memory, just playing it once seems like even more of an autoban once in playoffs for most people where atleast you could rely on 2 full weeks of practice. Probably best to have it be a new Koth map tbh
4
#4
-70 Frags +

It's season 33 and etf2l is still less competitive than an na casual badwater pub

It's season 33 and etf2l is still less competitive than an na casual badwater pub
5
#5
25 Frags +

every season we shuffle around the 1 shitty map that no-one likes
now we are just gonna have 3 of those shitty maps no-one likes, and a really random season format trying to shove them into 7 weeks

every season we shuffle around the 1 shitty map that no-one likes
now we are just gonna have 3 of those shitty maps no-one likes, and a really random season format trying to shove them into 7 weeks
6
#6
2 Frags +

Some interesting changes, though I think they should be wary of trying too much at once.

I like that new maps can come in occasionally, but I think maybe rotate 1 in or 2 man (if it's, for example, something like Reckoner) at a time, rather than trying too much. We've only had 1 season of Logjam and I know of some teams who played it once or not at all I think.

Some interesting changes, though I think they should be wary of trying too much at once.

I like that new maps can come in occasionally, but I think maybe rotate 1 in or 2 man (if it's, for example, something like Reckoner) at a time, rather than trying too much. We've only had 1 season of Logjam and I know of some teams who played it once or not at all I think.
7
#7
35 Frags +

is this the price of playing badlands

is this the price of playing badlands
8
#8
7 Frags +

2 significant new changes and I don't hate either of them. Is this even etf2l anymore?

2 significant new changes and I don't hate either of them. Is this even etf2l anymore?
9
#9
0 Frags +

So Excited!! *_*

So Excited!! *_*
10
#10
3 Frags +

i don't actually see what was wrong with the season 31 map pool (process, gully, snake, viaduct, sunshine, badlands, granary) but if we have to have other maps i'd suggest having a slot that gets rotated every season and a map rota to fill it. this way everyone at least knows the maps that could be in the map pool earlier than the preseason cup of every season.

i don't actually see what was wrong with the season 31 map pool (process, gully, snake, viaduct, sunshine, badlands, granary) but if we have to have other maps i'd suggest having a slot that gets rotated every season and a map rota to fill it. this way everyone at least knows the maps that could be in the map pool earlier than the preseason cup of every season.
11
#11
5 Frags +

I understand the need for new maps to avoid 6s becoming stale, but please stop trying to push maps that are just not a good fit for 6v6.

Sidenote, 9 maps would be a cool idea if the map pool was good as well.

I understand the need for new maps to avoid 6s becoming stale, but please stop trying to push maps that are just not a good fit for 6v6.

Sidenote, 9 maps would be a cool idea if the map pool was good as well.
12
#12
12 Frags +

I don't know too much about the whole map situation or receptions of maps in EU, but speaking from a 'general NA perspective' --

Metalworks isn't really a map that is hated by anyone for the most part like Granary, Badlands, and sometimes Product are. It was one of the most played maps last season in ESEA because nobody would ban it and I think it plays pretty well.

We had a map testing tourney with Invite level teams/pug teams an offseason ago with Propaganda, Alamosa, Logjam, and Kalinka. Propaganda was by far the most well received in the tourney, but had mixedish opinions in league play (probably mostly due to aversion to new maps).

I don't know too much about the whole map situation or receptions of maps in EU, but speaking from a 'general NA perspective' --

Metalworks isn't really a map that is hated by anyone for the most part like Granary, Badlands, and sometimes Product are. It was one of the most played maps last season in ESEA because nobody would ban it and I think it plays pretty well.

We had a map testing tourney with Invite level teams/pug teams an offseason ago with Propaganda, Alamosa, Logjam, and Kalinka. Propaganda was by far the most well received in the tourney, but had mixedish opinions in league play (probably mostly due to aversion to new maps).
13
#13
19 Frags +

Get old reckoner back in

Get old reckoner back in
14
#14
7 Frags +

People forget but Metalworks was in ETF2L for a couple seasons as well then got replaced my Logjam. I like both of these maps to be fair (the 2014 version of Logjam is the one I liked), especially Metalworks as it has really balanced map design that does not punish any classes on mid second or last.

I was refering to maps that are just designed to look cool with not much thought put into how the design will affect things like pushing/holding aka gameplay. The mistake of most map makers these days imo is that they first think "how can I make this map look good" and then they make another 10 versions which focus to fix all the things like sighlines or weird hiding spots or map bugs, that by the end version it looks like a completely different map (aka how Logjam turned out from how it was originally designed)

People forget but Metalworks was in ETF2L for a couple seasons as well then got replaced my Logjam. I like both of these maps to be fair (the 2014 version of Logjam is the one I liked), especially Metalworks as it has really balanced map design that does not punish any classes on mid second or last.

I was refering to maps that are just designed to look cool with not much thought put into how the design will affect things like pushing/holding aka gameplay. The mistake of most map makers these days imo is that they first think "how can I make this map look good" and then they make another 10 versions which focus to fix all the things like sighlines or weird hiding spots or map bugs, that by the end version it looks like a completely different map (aka how Logjam turned out from how it was originally designed)
15
#15
8 Frags +

It's weird that we haven't tried out Propaganda or Reckoner in the last preseason map cups. I think it would be a good idea to do a preseason map cup of these maps next season.

I do like the idea to have 9 maps. Maybe keep the current map pool and add Badlands and Metalworks. Next season we can compare these maps with Propaganda or Reckoner hopefully.

It's weird that we haven't tried out Propaganda or Reckoner in the last preseason map cups. I think it would be a good idea to do a preseason map cup of these maps next season.

I do like the idea to have 9 maps. Maybe keep the current map pool and add Badlands and Metalworks. Next season we can compare these maps with Propaganda or Reckoner hopefully.
16
#16
3 Frags +

logjam was actually good

logjam was actually good
17
#17
11 Frags +

Logjam was good I just didn't like the last area

Badlands is better than the 3 maps we just played in the pre season thingy by far still don't understand how we play a map for like what, 7 years? and its being knocked out? and it was regarded as like the staple map for that long a time and shit but theyd rather have cp_mist?

Logjam was good I just didn't like the last area

Badlands is better than the 3 maps we just played in the pre season thingy by far still don't understand how we play a map for like what, 7 years? and its being knocked out? and it was regarded as like the staple map for that long a time and shit but theyd rather have cp_mist?
18
#18
-12 Frags +
etf2l all maps will be available in playoffs where maps can be picked and banned

FUCKING YES

now please add a second koth map

I'm also curious about how which maps are played twice will get decided.

https://i.imgur.com/E5ElmQP.png

I vote for heavy fist fight / ready steady pan config at the end of a 10 minutes golden cap

[quote=etf2l] all maps will be available in playoffs where maps can be picked and banned[/quote]

FUCKING YES

now please add a second koth map

I'm also curious about how which maps are played twice will get decided.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/E5ElmQP.png[/img]
I vote for heavy fist fight / ready steady pan config at the end of a 10 minutes golden cap
19
#19
15 Frags +

Why do u want these things Twiggy? Why u want a second KOTH map just for the sake of having one?

Why do u want these things Twiggy? Why u want a second KOTH map just for the sake of having one?
20
#20
2 Frags +

i personally love the feeling of being done with a night of 2 viaduct scrims and feeling like ive played 10
koth is fucking exausting for me and i dont even have to play med

i personally love the feeling of being done with a night of 2 viaduct scrims and feeling like ive played 10
koth is fucking exausting for me and i dont even have to play med
21
#21
2 Frags +
funhaver1998Why do u want these things Twiggy? Why u want a second KOTH map just for the sake of having one?

For playoffs, I find it lame when a team can bypass training a whole gamemode by banning one map. A winner of some 6s championship should be the best everywhere and over all of the game. 6s is both 5cp and koth. The more diverse the game is, the more skill and knowledge is required, and the more room there is for team to differenciate.

Besides, from a spectator point of view, koth maps offer a different kind of entertainment, nail-biting situations to promoting offence.

[quote=funhaver1998]Why do u want these things Twiggy? Why u want a second KOTH map just for the sake of having one?[/quote]
For playoffs, I find it lame when a team can bypass training a whole gamemode by banning one map. A winner of some 6s championship should be the best everywhere and over all of the game. 6s is both 5cp and koth. The more diverse the game is, the more skill and knowledge is required, and the more room there is for team to differenciate.

Besides, from a spectator point of view, koth maps offer a different kind of entertainment, nail-biting situations to promoting offence.
22
#22
6 Frags +
funhaver1998Logjam was good I just didn't like the last area

I see this and I see the downvoted comment about logjam being actually good - anyone who's played it in season - please let me know what feedback you have. I have a wonderful list from ozfortress to work through for next season - so changes are coming.

If you have any points to make - now would be a good time.

[quote=funhaver1998]Logjam was good I just didn't like the last area

[/quote]

I see this and I see the downvoted comment about logjam being actually good - anyone who's played it in season - please let me know what feedback you have. I have a wonderful list from ozfortress to work through for next season - so changes are coming.

If you have any points to make - now would be a good time.
23
#23
-2 Frags +

Oki I have less experience than everyone but ill talk about some things i like and somethings i dont like

The choke between mid and second for me being this weird ass hill with like a soldier launch pad to the side of it is kinda hard to protect ur med from that even though i knew 100 percent the soldier would do it and its because when ur looking up all ur seeing is straight hill and the soldier just lands on me meds facking head. im sure my meds dropped in that part the most in that season

when it comes to the last part i think the only part i dont like is that small random ass window from last that u can see the point and u cant rly see where it is. its like a free hiding place thats there for no reason. when i think hiding places like on process its like a natural thing i dont think u should like designate a hiding area

one time we wiped their whole team start capping second and my med just gets headshot from some random ass place u sorta can barley see

i feel i have too much power on the mid as scout soldiers rly easy to deny if not highbombing

things i like about it is that u arent just adding random ass shit like the other new maps are. on the new maps theres like a prop every 5 steps that gets in the ways of fights and just makes it more bullshit and confusing

to someone who has barely ever played 6s, it was really easy to play a map like process or gully because the areas are simple and easy to understand, when i play a map like mist with 10000 different chokes and random ass boxes every 2 mins i dont think its possible to get what the fuck is going on w/o going spec and studying it for 2 hours

logjam doesnt rly have that problem which is the main thing i like

Oki I have less experience than everyone but ill talk about some things i like and somethings i dont like

The choke between mid and second for me being this weird ass hill with like a soldier launch pad to the side of it is kinda hard to protect ur med from that even though i knew 100 percent the soldier would do it and its because when ur looking up all ur seeing is straight hill and the soldier just lands on me meds facking head. im sure my meds dropped in that part the most in that season

when it comes to the last part i think the only part i dont like is that small random ass window from last that u can see the point and u cant rly see where it is. its like a free hiding place thats there for no reason. when i think hiding places like on process its like a natural thing i dont think u should like designate a hiding area

one time we wiped their whole team start capping second and my med just gets headshot from some random ass place u sorta can barley see

i feel i have too much power on the mid as scout soldiers rly easy to deny if not highbombing

things i like about it is that u arent just adding random ass shit like the other new maps are. on the new maps theres like a prop every 5 steps that gets in the ways of fights and just makes it more bullshit and confusing

to someone who has barely ever played 6s, it was really easy to play a map like process or gully because the areas are simple and easy to understand, when i play a map like mist with 10000 different chokes and random ass boxes every 2 mins i dont think its possible to get what the fuck is going on w/o going spec and studying it for 2 hours

logjam doesnt rly have that problem which is the main thing i like
24
#24
5 Frags +
Hycefunhaver1998Logjam was good I just didn't like the last area

I see this and I see the downvoted comment about logjam being actually good - anyone who's played it in season - please let me know what feedback you have. I have a wonderful list from ozfortress to work through for next season - so changes are coming.

If you have any points to make - now would be a good time.

The map is very sniper dominant, pretty much every team I played had a sniper on mid and trying to push out of last was the same, there was not really any easy way to take 2nd without being immediately forced or in awful low ground, it feels too big/spread out and there's not enough cover, try making anti sniper sightlines which force players through more claustrophobic areas so that a sniper can't destroy everyone from the other side of the map and other classes can make plays

Also felt like the high ground on 2nd didn't make too much sense, all 3 doors could be watched from one entrance so distraction plays weren't really effective and 2 scouts could literally be on the meds face the entire time, every other position other than directly on point is pretty dogshit to play on because it's either too small or is lowground directly next to highground so as soon as you get pushed off you immediately have to give up the point.

As for fast play and pushing I personally felt the map flowed fine in that regard, there was multiple ways to push and catch teams off-guard with ad, Didn't think last was too bad of a point either for both teams other than it was very easy to get locked in spawn (which isn't exactly the worst idea seeing as players complain about last being too difficult to push sometimes)

Hope this helps :)

[quote=Hyce][quote=funhaver1998]Logjam was good I just didn't like the last area

[/quote]

I see this and I see the downvoted comment about logjam being actually good - anyone who's played it in season - please let me know what feedback you have. I have a wonderful list from ozfortress to work through for next season - so changes are coming.

If you have any points to make - now would be a good time.[/quote]

The map is very sniper dominant, pretty much every team I played had a sniper on mid and trying to push out of last was the same, there was not really any easy way to take 2nd without being immediately forced or in awful low ground, it feels too big/spread out and there's not enough cover, try making anti sniper sightlines which force players through more claustrophobic areas so that a sniper can't destroy everyone from the other side of the map and other classes can make plays

Also felt like the high ground on 2nd didn't make too much sense, all 3 doors could be watched from one entrance so distraction plays weren't really effective and 2 scouts could literally be on the meds face the entire time, every other position other than directly on point is pretty dogshit to play on because it's either too small or is lowground directly next to highground so as soon as you get pushed off you immediately have to give up the point.

As for fast play and pushing I personally felt the map flowed fine in that regard, there was multiple ways to push and catch teams off-guard with ad, Didn't think last was too bad of a point either for both teams other than it was very easy to get locked in spawn (which isn't exactly the worst idea seeing as players complain about last being too difficult to push sometimes)

Hope this helps :)
25
#25
-1 Frags +
Hycefunhaver1998Logjam was good I just didn't like the last area

I see this and I see the downvoted comment about logjam being actually good - anyone who's played it in season - please let me know what feedback you have. I have a wonderful list from ozfortress to work through for next season - so changes are coming.

If you have any points to make - now would be a good time.

Personally I still think this map is pretty good and should be played more. The only advice I can give you is ask for feedback earlier. Last season ended more than one month ago, and next season is already starting in two weeks. So it might be a bit too late to ask for feedback and implement that before next season starts. Pretty sure ETF2L even needs to announce the map pool within one week because the prem qualifiers will be next week, so that's even less time to make changes on the map.

[quote=Hyce][quote=funhaver1998]Logjam was good I just didn't like the last area

[/quote]

I see this and I see the downvoted comment about logjam being actually good - anyone who's played it in season - please let me know what feedback you have. I have a wonderful list from ozfortress to work through for next season - so changes are coming.

If you have any points to make - now would be a good time.[/quote]

Personally I still think this map is pretty good and should be played more. The only advice I can give you is ask for feedback earlier. Last season ended more than one month ago, and next season is already starting in two weeks. So it might be a bit too late to ask for feedback and implement that before next season starts. Pretty sure ETF2L even needs to announce the map pool within one week because the prem qualifiers will be next week, so that's even less time to make changes on the map.
26
#26
-1 Frags +
Hycefunhaver1998Logjam was good I just didn't like the last area

I see this and I see the downvoted comment about logjam being actually good - anyone who's played it in season - please let me know what feedback you have. I have a wonderful list from ozfortress to work through for next season - so changes are coming.

If you have any points to make - now would be a good time.

i don't think the map is bad, i enjoyed it. pretty much the only thing i dislike is the window in last. sure there is a window in gully last too but atleast you have to commit yourself to a position where you can be picked if you wanna see into last properly

[quote=Hyce][quote=funhaver1998]Logjam was good I just didn't like the last area

[/quote]

I see this and I see the downvoted comment about logjam being actually good - anyone who's played it in season - please let me know what feedback you have. I have a wonderful list from ozfortress to work through for next season - so changes are coming.

If you have any points to make - now would be a good time.[/quote]

i don't think the map is bad, i enjoyed it. pretty much the only thing i dislike is the window in last. sure there is a window in gully last too but atleast you have to commit yourself to a position where you can be picked if you wanna see into last properly
27
#27
4 Frags +

I also quite like Logjam.

For me the issues are: the sniper sightlines, the window onto last feels quite a cheap way to peek and see their defences, and I miss the bridge on mid from the old logjam.

Scout main though so imagine soldier mains have some frustrations on logjam

I also quite like Logjam.

For me the issues are: the sniper sightlines, the window onto last feels quite a cheap way to peek and see their defences, and I miss the bridge on mid from the old logjam.

Scout main though so imagine soldier mains have some frustrations on logjam
28
#28
3 Frags +

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'll probably toss a new test version out later this week.

TimTum
The only advice I can give you is ask for feedback earlier. Last season ended more than one month ago, and next season is already starting in two weeks. So it might be a bit too late to ask for feedback and implement that before next season starts. Pretty sure ETF2L even needs to announce the map pool within one week because the prem qualifiers will be next week, so that's even less time to make changes on the map.

Regarding this - I tend to kind of check in and see if anything's going on related to the maps every few weeks these days - so I didn't realize it was going to be new season time in ETF2L 'til I saw this thread. Lame excuse, but here we are.

That said, you underestimate the speed at which I can make changes... :P. That and the admins of all the leagues have always been super helpful as far as letting me put out versions after announcements (so long as I don't do anything too crazy).

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'll probably toss a new test version out later this week.

[quote=TimTum]

The only advice I can give you is ask for feedback earlier. Last season ended more than one month ago, and next season is already starting in two weeks. So it might be a bit too late to ask for feedback and implement that before next season starts. Pretty sure ETF2L even needs to announce the map pool within one week because the prem qualifiers will be next week, so that's even less time to make changes on the map.
[/quote]

Regarding this - I tend to kind of check in and see if anything's going on related to the maps every few weeks these days - so I didn't realize it was going to be new season time in ETF2L 'til I saw this thread. Lame excuse, but here we are.

That said, you underestimate the speed at which I can make changes... :P. That and the admins of all the leagues have always been super helpful as far as letting me put out versions after announcements (so long as I don't do anything too crazy).
29
#29
6 Frags +

Map Rotation
Week 1: cp_granary_pro_rc8 & cp_gullywash_final1
Week 2: cp_gullywash_final1 & koth_product_rcx
Week 3: koth_product_rcx & cp_sunshine
Week 4: cp_logjam_rc10a & cp_process_final
Week 5: cp_process_final & cp_metalworks
Week 6: cp_metalworks & cp_snakewater_final1
Week 7: cp_snakewater_final1 & cp_prolands_rc2t

thoughts lads?

Map Rotation
Week 1: cp_granary_pro_rc8 & cp_gullywash_final1
Week 2: cp_gullywash_final1 & koth_product_rcx
Week 3: koth_product_rcx & cp_sunshine
Week 4: cp_logjam_rc10a & cp_process_final
Week 5: cp_process_final & cp_metalworks
Week 6: cp_metalworks & cp_snakewater_final1
Week 7: cp_snakewater_final1 & cp_prolands_rc2t

thoughts lads?
30
#30
20 Frags +

Rather just have badlands back tbh

Rather just have badlands back tbh
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