Upvote Upvoted 16 Downvote Downvoted
1 2 3
what league are y'all gonna play in
31
#31
63 Frags +
dashnerAs someone who has dealt with this kid for years.

oh get a fucken life how long have i watched you actively bully a child - 3 years?

grow a pair you joker, its honestly embarrassing to watch someone who i once held in pretty high regard continuously act like hes at the deep end of the spectrum because he cant take the idea that someone else might try to do things he previously did. your games that you play with mitch are a fucking joke and you should be ashamed. in what world is it a good idea to just pick someone and hate them forever? when do you act like a fucking adult and let something go? you sure as shit cant seem to figure out the line. unbelievable that you consider going out of your way to bully a person "dealing" with them
the kid might be a fuckwit but hes doing things for tf2 that were not - so therefore at the very least if you cant respect the man, respect his actions

if i had my way youd be lanced like the boil ya fucken are - get some of that up ya you absolute fucking mong

christ isnt like videogames your job or some shit? is this how you conduct all your professional relationships? with a healthy dose of superiority complex? lmfao wish u got hugged more man

[quote=dashner]As someone who has dealt with this kid for years.[/quote]

oh get a fucken life how long have i watched you actively bully a child - 3 years?

grow a pair you joker, its honestly embarrassing to watch someone who i once held in pretty high regard continuously act like hes at the deep end of the spectrum because he cant take the idea that someone else might try to do things he previously did. your games that you play with mitch are a fucking joke and you should be ashamed. in what world is it a good idea to just pick someone and hate them forever? when do you act like a fucking adult and let something go? you sure as shit cant seem to figure out the line. unbelievable that you consider going out of your way to bully a person "dealing" with them
the kid might be a fuckwit but hes doing things for tf2 that were not - so therefore at the very least if you cant respect the man, respect his actions

if i had my way youd be lanced like the boil ya fucken are - get some of that up ya you absolute fucking mong

christ isnt like videogames your job or some shit? is this how you conduct all your professional relationships? with a healthy dose of superiority complex? lmfao wish u got hugged more man
32
#32
75 Frags +
Seinfeldtf2 will never be an eSport

ya I'd be jaded too if I dedicated that much time to a game and never got out of mid open

[quote=Seinfeld]tf2 will never be an eSport[/quote]
ya I'd be jaded too if I dedicated that much time to a game and never got out of mid open
33
#33
27 Frags +

Who here is gonna quit 6s and become an INVITE pass time player with me in tf2cl?

Who here is gonna quit 6s and become an INVITE pass time player with me in tf2cl?
34
#34
8 Frags +

unity or death.

unity or death.
35
#35
13 Frags +

After trying to catch up(probably missed quite a bit anyway) on the whole league stuff on which will be the new replacement, I think it's important to consider a lot of things.

First, I want to say that with ESEA ending its ties with TF2 as a league, this is possibly a great opportunity for the NA TF2 Community(or the whole TF2 community in general) to have a new beginning with a new league that can/will hopefully do better than ESEA during its run and perhaps even open up a chance to gain new players hopefully. Two important things to remember is: 1. What does the community really need? 2. Who can and is willing to provide it if possible?
I'd say #1 is highly important as it may ultimately lead to what people might choose to do, here's a short list of what I think the community could use in accordance with a new league:

A. A very organized, dedicated, knowledgeable, TRUSTWORTHY, and fantastic team that is highly likely to ensure good quality and not be questionable(as we known of in the past...)
B. Willing to communicate with the community and take them into consideration.
C. A very decent well-running functional website with a great UI in order to actually run the league and represent information.
D. Connections with a great production team/casters and of the sorts, kind of tied with A.
E. Multiple available decent servers with an actual working STV.
F. Willing to communicate with the community and take them into consideration.
G. Actual possible unity(the more unification there is, the better for games like TF2 and such).
H. Willingness to improve, as maybe they don't start out well at first or have X, but are willing to expand and provide it in the future.

There's probably a lot more, but do note I didn't list "LAN" or possible LAN. It's important to consider that you have to think about what's most important and I know that some leagues or people have this idea of trying to have a TF2 LAN or some eSports ideas involved and such, but there are also many people that are done/past that and just want to play the game, but hey you never know, maybe if we can first establish a good community-run league then there can always be plans for LAN in the future. Personally, I think it's more important to establish the most unified "go-to" league that has a lot of the aspects I mentioned and is more community-run, because a community can last longer in the long run than a different provider(ESEA, ESL, Faceit, or etc.) as you never know how long they might last or continue to support the game.

I haven't checked out all these new leagues that are popping up, their site UI, and what they can provide/do for the community, but one other important thing to consider is the players themselves and which league they decide to go with. We're still generally a small community with a limited number of possible teams. It is not good if a community as small as competitive TF2's splinters. An example, back then after tf2lobby ended, people were splintered between tf2center, tf2stadium, and tf2.gg for a small while, with all of them having great UI and potential, but just an unnecessary splinter. I'd think it'd be cooler if some groups/leagues collab, as someone mentioned having RGL+twiikuu team work together(which can be good as we lessen the # of possible splinters and can put more people working together to be able to handle providing the service).

Anyways, I hope in the end it all works out and the community be will be able to settle in a fine league run by a great team. Just remember to consider what the community really needs to survive and be able to have them play the game they love.

After trying to catch up(probably missed quite a bit anyway) on the whole league stuff on which will be the new replacement, I think it's important to consider a lot of things.

First, I want to say that with ESEA ending its ties with TF2 as a league, this is [b][i]possibly[/i][/b] a great opportunity for the NA TF2 Community(or the whole TF2 community in general) to have a new beginning with a new league that can/will hopefully do better than ESEA during its run and perhaps even open up a chance to gain new players hopefully. Two important things to remember is: 1. What does the community really need? 2. Who can and is willing to provide it if possible?
I'd say #1 is highly important as it may ultimately lead to what people might choose to do, here's a short list of what [i]I think[/i] the community could use in accordance with a new league:

A. A very organized, dedicated, knowledgeable, [b]TRUSTWORTHY[/b], and fantastic team that is highly likely to ensure good quality and not be questionable(as we known of in the past...)
B. Willing to communicate with the community and take them into consideration.
C. A very decent well-running functional website with a great UI in order to actually run the league and represent information.
D. Connections with a great production team/casters and of the sorts, kind of tied with A.
E. Multiple available decent servers with an actual working STV.
F. Willing to communicate with the community and take them into consideration.
G. Actual possible unity(the more unification there is, the better for games like TF2 and such).
H. Willingness to improve, as maybe they don't start out well at first or have X, but are willing to expand and provide it in the future.

There's probably a lot more, but do note I didn't list "LAN" or possible LAN. It's important to consider that you have to think about what's most important and I know that some leagues or people have this idea of trying to have a TF2 LAN or some eSports ideas involved and such, but there are also many people that are done/past that and just want to play the game, but hey you never know, maybe if we can first establish a good community-run league then there can always be plans for LAN in the future. Personally, I think it's more important to establish the most unified "go-to" league that has a lot of the aspects I mentioned and is more community-run, because a community can last longer in the long run than a different provider(ESEA, ESL, Faceit, or etc.) as you never know how long they might last or continue to support the game.

I haven't checked out all these new leagues that are popping up, their site UI, and what they can provide/do for the community, but one other important thing to consider is the players themselves and which league they decide to go with. We're still generally a small community with a limited number of possible teams. It is not good if a community as small as competitive TF2's splinters. An example, back then after tf2lobby ended, people were splintered between tf2center, tf2stadium, and tf2.gg for a small while, with all of them having great UI and potential, but just an unnecessary splinter. I'd think it'd be cooler if some groups/leagues collab, as someone mentioned having RGL+twiikuu team work together(which can be good as we lessen the # of possible splinters and can put more people working together to be able to handle providing the service).

Anyways, I hope in the end it all works out and the community be will be able to settle in a fine league run by a great team. Just remember to consider what the community really needs to survive and be able to have them play the game they love.
36
#36
-3 Frags +

The course of action is clear, emigrate to europe or be forced to play Sigafoo TF2.

The course of action is clear, emigrate to europe or be forced to play Sigafoo TF2.
37
#37
35 Frags +

Im playing etf2l next season

Im playing etf2l next season
38
#38
-4 Frags +

ETF2L

ETF2L
39
#39
13 Frags +

RGL makes the most sense right now. It has a sizable prize pool, it's established, and if it ran similar to HL there, I don't see why that wouldn't be the best option. I know people meme about Sigafoo selling coke on the side to get those prize pools, but I don't think he would risk his finances by pissing 6s players off because of his TF2 philosophy. UGC has largely been their own thing forever now, and TFCL has little to no chance at competing without offering a massive prize pool / getting sponsors. That sucks in a way, because I don't see how it would be possible for RGL and ESL (if it were to happen) could collaborate, but that's how I see it panning out.

Also, I wasn't around for CEVO vs. ESEA, so I might be wrong, but I thought the reason why that situation was especially divisive was because 1.) The entire bitcoin mining scandal at ESEA creating distrust between the playerbase and 2.) you had to play ~ four matches a week on CEVO, meaning it was virtually impossible to play both leagues at once. I don't see those issues being a problem this time around. That isn't to say splitting the player-base into multiple leagues is necessarily a good thing, but I don't think it would be the end of the world if it were to happen the first couple of seasons.

RGL makes the most sense right now. It has a sizable prize pool, it's established, and if it ran similar to HL there, I don't see why that wouldn't be the best option. I know people meme about Sigafoo selling coke on the side to get those prize pools, but I don't think he would risk his finances by pissing 6s players off because of his TF2 philosophy. UGC has largely been their own thing forever now, and TFCL has little to no chance at competing without offering a massive prize pool / getting sponsors. That sucks in a way, because I don't see how it would be possible for RGL and ESL (if it were to happen) could collaborate, but that's how I see it panning out.

Also, I wasn't around for CEVO vs. ESEA, so I might be wrong, but I thought the reason why that situation was especially divisive was because 1.) The entire bitcoin mining scandal at ESEA creating distrust between the playerbase and 2.) you had to play ~ four matches a week on CEVO, meaning it was virtually impossible to play both leagues at once. I don't see those issues being a problem this time around. That isn't to say splitting the player-base into multiple leagues is necessarily a good thing, but I don't think it would be the end of the world if it were to happen the first couple of seasons.
40
#40
23 Frags +

i'll play rgl but i won't like it

i'll play rgl but i won't like it
41
#41
2 Frags +
inky-Who here is gonna quit 6s and become an INVITE pass time player with me in tf2cl?

heck yeah

[quote=inky-]Who here is gonna quit 6s and become an INVITE pass time player with me in tf2cl?[/quote]
heck yeah
42
#42
23 Frags +

i think guessing which league to play before any of them actually launch is the best course of action

i think guessing which league to play before any of them actually launch is the best course of action
43
#43
8 Frags +
hayesthe reason why that situation was especially divisive was because 1.) The entire bitcoin mining scandal at ESEA creating distrust between the playerbase and 2.) you had to play ~ four matches a week on CEVO, meaning it was virtually impossible to play both leagues at once.

Point 1 was true, but point 2 is technically wrong, it was the exact same as ESEA (2 matches a week, but the map rotation was not the same because esea refused to work with cevo and cevo refused to change their schedule once esea posted theirs). The issue with cevo was not the admin staff, nor the week structure, nor the client, but that the platform was not really ready to host a league for a large number of people. Forfeit rules made it so that you never had a forfeit game but that game wouldn't be played that week, instead is was pushed to the next week, creating weeks where you had more the two games. Dead teams also weren't properly dealt with which compounded the issue week after week.

However, this isn't what killed the league, what killed it is what is going to determine what league survives this uncooperative mess that these league admins are creating. The top teams didn't all switch to the league. I think there might have been one or two teams that only played in cevo, but the rest were dual league teams. There were significantly more unique esea teams than cevo teams for the first season of cevo (and beyond). With the above match scheduling problem, a worse (which I didn't know was possible at the time) to navigate website at the time, and no LAN support (until it was too late), there was really no compelling reason for those on ESEA to switch over.

As Screwb says, unless you are on an invite or playoff IM team, you really don't get a say where the bulk of teams play next season unless you can convince one of those aforementioned teams where to play. If you are an invite or playoff IM team, then the most important thing for 6s stability is that you all agree on ONE league to play in.

[quote=hayes]the reason why that situation was especially divisive was because 1.) The entire bitcoin mining scandal at ESEA creating distrust between the playerbase and 2.) you had to play ~ four matches a week on CEVO, meaning it was virtually impossible to play both leagues at once. [/quote]

Point 1 was true, but point 2 is technically wrong, it was the exact same as ESEA (2 matches a week, but the map rotation was not the same because esea refused to work with cevo and cevo refused to change their schedule once esea posted theirs). The issue with cevo was not the admin staff, nor the week structure, nor the client, but that the platform was not really ready to host a league for a large number of people. Forfeit rules made it so that you never had a forfeit game but that game wouldn't be played that week, instead is was pushed to the next week, creating weeks where you had more the two games. Dead teams also weren't properly dealt with which compounded the issue week after week.

However, this isn't what killed the league, what killed it is what is going to determine what league survives this uncooperative mess that these league admins are creating. The top teams didn't all switch to the league. I think there might have been one or two teams that only played in cevo, but the rest were dual league teams. There were significantly more unique esea teams than cevo teams for the first season of cevo (and beyond). With the above match scheduling problem, a worse (which I didn't know was possible at the time) to navigate website at the time, and no LAN support (until it was too late), there was really no compelling reason for those on ESEA to switch over.

As Screwb says, unless you are on an invite or playoff IM team, you really don't get a say where the bulk of teams play next season unless you can convince one of those aforementioned teams where to play. If you are an invite or playoff IM team, then the most important thing for 6s stability is that you all agree on ONE league to play in.
44
#44
13 Frags +

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/414682449482874881/575401755622244352/joinordie.gif

[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/414682449482874881/575401755622244352/joinordie.gif[/img]
45
#45
30 Frags +

ESL vs RGL imo

As I see it the pros for each

RGL

  • Prize Pool confirmed
  • LAN pretty much confirmed
  • Multiple Skill Divs, logically divided (perhaps a bit more than necessary)
  • Actual anti-sandbag enforcement
  • Community League that would have admins from the community the very first season.

ESL

  • AC Client that can actually work, ESL would have to make it work though
  • Massive Platform that long term if Valve actually put time into the game is where TF2 would likely end up anyway... Not to mention possible audience reach for Grand Finals / etc.
  • More likely to add a meaningful prize pool or LAN than UGC/TFCL
  • Most likely to be able to handle a massive influx of teams/players.
  • A ton of other services that ESL might actually get working for TF2.

A short comment on the dashner vs mitch stuff
IDK mitch, but I've had experiences with dashner before. Dashner is great on production for casting but the short time span I was on a team with him he had managed to insult several people to the point he got banned from UGC.

http://logs.tf/6021

http://logs.tf/5968

http://logs.tf/4176

edit
I'm editing out the specifics of what he said and just going to leave the links as it is part of his history and relevant to the conversation. Granted this was 6+ years ago and while he may not feel that way regarding homophobic, racist and sexist comments anymore it still shows how strongly dashner reacts to people he dislikes.

ESL vs RGL imo

As I see it the pros for each

[b]RGL[/b]
[list]
[*] Prize Pool confirmed
[*] LAN pretty much confirmed
[*] Multiple Skill Divs, logically divided (perhaps a bit more than necessary)
[*] Actual anti-sandbag enforcement
[*] Community League that would have admins from the community the very first season.
[/list]

[b]ESL[/b]
[list]
[*] AC Client that can actually work, ESL would have to make it work though
[*] Massive Platform that long term if Valve actually put time into the game is where TF2 would likely end up anyway... Not to mention possible audience reach for Grand Finals / etc.
[*] More likely to add a meaningful prize pool or LAN than UGC/TFCL
[*] Most likely to be able to handle a massive influx of teams/players.
[*] A ton of other services that ESL might actually get working for TF2.
[/list]

A short comment on the dashner vs mitch stuff
IDK mitch, but I've had experiences with dashner before. Dashner is great on production for casting but the short time span I was on a team with him he had managed to insult several people to the point he got banned from UGC.

http://logs.tf/6021

http://logs.tf/5968

http://logs.tf/4176

[i]edit[/i]
I'm editing out the specifics of what he said and just going to leave the links as it is part of his history and relevant to the conversation. Granted this was 6+ years ago and while he may not feel that way regarding homophobic, racist and sexist comments anymore it still shows how strongly dashner reacts to people he dislikes.
46
#46
11 Frags +

I really like you comanglia

I really like you comanglia
47
#47
-16 Frags +

Yup. 5 years ago I was extremely childish and stupid. I'm not going to sit here and deny it or make excuses. When you do stupid shit it comes back to hit you in the face eventually, no matter how young you were. I hoped it was behind me, god knows I did my best to forget about it myself because I'm ashamed of what I was like in 2010-2013.

2013 me thought it was funny to get drunk during matches and verbally abuse people. 2013 me thought it was okay to use racial and homophobic slurs for shock value. It's been five years since then and I've grown as a person and realized that kind of behavior is unacceptable.

My feelings and warnings about Mitch remain the same but I won't push the issue. Just use caution about him and anyone that presents themselves as a replacement for ESEA

If it's not completely clear by my comments above, I apologize for the comments listed, though I've always felt remorse doesn't mean much in the long run to most people and in the end it's about taking responsibility for your actions.

Yup. 5 years ago I was extremely childish and stupid. I'm not going to sit here and deny it or make excuses. When you do stupid shit it comes back to hit you in the face eventually, no matter how young you were. I hoped it was behind me, god knows I did my best to forget about it myself because I'm ashamed of what I was like in 2010-2013.

2013 me thought it was funny to get drunk during matches and verbally abuse people. 2013 me thought it was okay to use racial and homophobic slurs for shock value. It's been five years since then and I've grown as a person and realized that kind of behavior is unacceptable.

My feelings and warnings about Mitch remain the same but I won't push the issue. Just use caution about him and anyone that presents themselves as a replacement for ESEA

If it's not completely clear by my comments above, I apologize for the comments listed, though I've always felt remorse doesn't mean much in the long run to most people and in the end it's about taking responsibility for your actions.
48
#48
-14 Frags +
Comanglia

hmmm let's check the dates on these logs

https://i.imgur.com/bmQmzAu.png

who bothers to backtrack this hard???

[quote=Comanglia][/quote]
hmmm let's check the dates on these logs
[img]https://i.imgur.com/bmQmzAu.png[/img]
who bothers to backtrack this hard???
49
#49
25 Frags +
bLaComangliahmmm let's check the dates on these logs
https://i.imgur.com/bmQmzAu.png
who bothers to backtrack this hard???

I think the difference is that dashnerr is calling mitch a pathological liar with no real evidence or proof for shit mitch did years ago, but it turns out dashnerr did worse shit. also dashnerr mentions that he's grown as a person, yet refuses to accept that mitch has too

pot calling the kettle black type shit u know, especially when mitch never called anyone a faggot or a nigger

[quote=bLa][quote=Comanglia][/quote]
hmmm let's check the dates on these logs
[img]https://i.imgur.com/bmQmzAu.png[/img]
who bothers to backtrack this hard???[/quote]

I think the difference is that dashnerr is calling mitch a pathological liar with no real evidence or proof for shit mitch did years ago, but it turns out dashnerr did worse shit. also dashnerr mentions that he's grown as a person, yet refuses to accept that mitch has too

pot calling the kettle black type shit u know, especially when mitch never called anyone a faggot or a nigger
50
#50
17 Frags +
bLaComangliahmmm let's check the dates on these logs
https://i.imgur.com/bmQmzAu.png
who bothers to backtrack this hard???

I was fucking there...

It's kinda hard to forget having a match overturned that you won 4-0 because someone decided to be an asshole.

Hell I was told after it happened that I shouldn't have been surprised...

just so people are aware dashner does have a goodside too

https://www.teamfortress.tv/post/18114/ets-lan-2013-announced

dashnershlanerI'm in Torontooooooooooooo
I don't know who the fuck you are but I'll drive you if you need a lift.
[quote=bLa][quote=Comanglia][/quote]
hmmm let's check the dates on these logs
[img]https://i.imgur.com/bmQmzAu.png[/img]
who bothers to backtrack this hard???[/quote]

I was fucking there...

It's kinda hard to forget having a match overturned that you won 4-0 because someone decided to be an asshole.

Hell I was told after it happened that I shouldn't have been surprised...

just so people are aware dashner does have a goodside too

https://www.teamfortress.tv/post/18114/ets-lan-2013-announced
[quote=dashner][quote=shlaner]I'm in Torontooooooooooooo[/quote]

I don't know who the fuck you are but I'll drive you if you need a lift.[/quote]
51
#51
7 Frags +

esl is probably the better option in the long run but rgl is already set up and literally catered towards tf2

esl is probably the better option in the long run but rgl is already set up and literally catered towards tf2
52
#52
-2 Frags +
dashneri am a virgin

You Have Been Forgiven Now Its Ok

[quote=dashner]i am a virgin[/quote]

You Have Been Forgiven Now Its Ok
53
#53
-22 Frags +
Kissakaladashneri am a virgin
You Have Been Forgiven Now Its Ok

im p sure he raped someone @ lan and used to fuck tagg but i could be wrong

dont call ppl virgins if u dont know the facts.

[quote=Kissakala][quote=dashner]i am a virgin[/quote]

You Have Been Forgiven Now Its Ok[/quote]
im p sure he raped someone @ lan and used to fuck tagg but i could be wrong

dont call ppl virgins if u dont know the facts.
54
#54
15 Frags +
kyaaKissakaladashneri am a virgin
You Have Been Forgiven Now Its Ok
im p sure he raped someone @ lan and used to fuck tagg but i could be wrong

dont call ppl virgins if u dont know the facts.

Regardless of whether this is a troll or not, everything above is false and never happened.

[quote=kyaa][quote=Kissakala][quote=dashner]i am a virgin[/quote]

You Have Been Forgiven Now Its Ok[/quote]
im p sure he raped someone @ lan and used to fuck tagg but i could be wrong

dont call ppl virgins if u dont know the facts.[/quote]

Regardless of whether this is a troll or not, everything above is false and never happened.
55
#55
-2 Frags +
dashnerkyaaKissakaladashneri am a virgin
You Have Been Forgiven Now Its Ok
im p sure he raped someone @ lan and used to fuck tagg but i could be wrong

dont call ppl virgins if u dont know the facts.

Regardless of whether this is a troll or not, everything above is false and never happened.

you cant escape the truth

[quote=dashner][quote=kyaa][quote=Kissakala][quote=dashner]i am a virgin[/quote]

You Have Been Forgiven Now Its Ok[/quote]
im p sure he raped someone @ lan and used to fuck tagg but i could be wrong

dont call ppl virgins if u dont know the facts.[/quote]

Regardless of whether this is a troll or not, everything above is false and never happened.[/quote]
you cant escape the truth
56
#56
10 Frags +

Don't call people virgins if you don't know the facts
By the way dashnerr raped someone I think LMAO

Don't call people virgins if you don't know the facts
By the way dashnerr raped someone I think LMAO
57
#57
8 Frags +
ComangliaI'm editing out the specifics of what he said and just going to leave the links as it is part of his history and relevant to the conversation. Granted this was 6+ years ago and while he may not feel that way regarding homophobic, racist and sexist comments anymore it still shows how strongly dashner reacts to people he dislikes.

dashner a homophobe lol

[quote=Comanglia]
I'm editing out the specifics of what he said and just going to leave the links as it is part of his history and relevant to the conversation. Granted this was 6+ years ago and while he may not feel that way regarding homophobic, racist and sexist comments anymore it still shows how strongly dashner reacts to people he dislikes.[/quote]

dashner a homophobe lol
58
#58
22 Frags +

hey guys this is cool and all but what league are y’all gonna play in?

hey guys this is cool and all but what league are y’all gonna play in?
59
#59
7 Frags +
dashner2013 me thought it was okay to use racial and homophobic slurs for shock value. It's been five years since then

dashner did you get so drunk you lost an entire year

[quote=dashner]2013 me thought it was okay to use racial and homophobic slurs for shock value. It's been five years since then[/quote]
dashner did you get so drunk you lost an entire year
60
#60
1 Frags +

I think kyaa might have raped someone honestly
i dont know the facts but like i get a vibe might be wrong tho :///

I think kyaa might have raped someone honestly
i dont know the facts but like i get a vibe might be wrong tho :///
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