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Crouching while rocket jumping
31
#31
-23 Frags +
GrapeJuiceIIIMe and some friends were playing ultiduo a few weeks ago and this topic came up.
We sat at the edge of point on Baloo and crouched and didn’t crouch, and shot a rocket directly at the bottom of the player model, and a shotgun blast directly at the bottom of the player model, and sure enough, being crouched while being knocked back gets you sent higher.
End thread it’s really that simple.

haha

[quote=GrapeJuiceIII]Me and some friends were playing ultiduo a few weeks ago and this topic came up.
We sat at the edge of point on Baloo and crouched and didn’t crouch, and shot a rocket directly at the bottom of the player model, and a shotgun blast directly at the bottom of the player model, and sure enough, being crouched while being knocked back gets you sent higher.
End thread it’s really that simple.[/quote]

haha
32
#32
6 Frags +

Anyone who's ever surfed any explosive should know the difference between the effects of being crouched and standing. There's functionally no difference between being in the air from jumping, and being in the air from a rocket jump, so you can test this by jumping on the ground while being shot by a shotgun. Turn on cl_showpos and there will be a clear difference in peak velocity, and in distance travelled due to knockback.

Anyone who's ever surfed any explosive should know the difference between the effects of being crouched and standing. There's functionally no difference between being in the air from jumping, and being in the air from a rocket jump, so you can test this by jumping on the ground while being shot by a shotgun. Turn on cl_showpos and there will be a clear difference in peak velocity, and in distance travelled due to knockback.
33
#33
5 Frags +

a pencil jump is when u jump straight up while not holding crouch

a pencil jump is when u jump straight up while not holding crouch
34
#34
36 Frags +

how is this something you dont know it's like u mustve been playing heavy this whole time

how is this something you dont know it's like u mustve been playing heavy this whole time
35
#35
6 Frags +

Just shotgun deny each other on mge you will see the difference

Just shotgun deny each other on mge you will see the difference
36
#36
-33 Frags +
AntimoonAnyone who's ever surfed any explosive should know the difference between the effects of being crouched and standing. There's functionally no difference between being in the air from jumping, and being in the air from a rocket jump, so you can test this by jumping on the ground while being shot by a shotgun. Turn on cl_showpos and there will be a clear difference in peak velocity, and in distance travelled due to knockback.

who am I going to trust, someones feelings or the code that dictates the game theyre playing?

[quote=Antimoon]Anyone who's ever surfed any explosive should know the difference between the effects of being crouched and standing. There's functionally no difference between being in the air from jumping, and being in the air from a rocket jump, so you can test this by jumping on the ground while being shot by a shotgun. Turn on cl_showpos and there will be a clear difference in peak velocity, and in distance travelled due to knockback.[/quote]

who am I going to trust, someones feelings or the code that dictates the game theyre playing?
37
#37
36 Frags +

what part of cl_showpos is someones feelings

what part of cl_showpos is someones feelings
38
#38
20 Frags +

lmao dude it's not feelings its just "oh look i got sent like 10 feet higher into the air". its a VERY noticeable difference, there is no "ehhhh i think it boosted me a liiiiittle more when i was crouched", no, its very clear which gets you knocked back further

lmao dude it's not feelings its just "oh look i got sent like 10 feet higher into the air". its a VERY noticeable difference, there is no "ehhhh i think it boosted me a liiiiittle more when i was crouched", no, its very clear which gets you knocked back further
39
#39
4 Frags +

allow me to summon grandmaster of the pencil, SoLe.

allow me to summon grandmaster of the pencil, SoLe.
40
#40
36 Frags +

this is like pub mechanics 101, if a heavy is shooting your back, just jump+crouch
it sends you noticeably further than if you don't crouch

this is SO easy to test its honestly insane to me that someone would try to argue this

this is like pub mechanics 101, if a heavy is shooting your back, just jump+crouch
it sends you [i]noticeably[/i] further than if you don't crouch

this is SO easy to test its honestly insane to me that someone would try to argue this
41
#41
-25 Frags +
Lunacidethis is like pub mechanics 101, if a heavy is shooting your back, just jump+crouch
it sends you noticeably further than if you don't crouch

this is SO easy to test its honestly insane to me that someone would try to argue this

the argument that OP was on about had nothing actually to do with whether or not he was correct, the problem was that he was claiming the opposing statement was wrong without providing any evidence to support such a claim. he just told me to go test it myself, and refused to find the answer himself - which he should have done since he was the one making the claim.

I'm still going to run the Lab in a controlled environment with puppet bots since I'm genuinely curious - which is why I went through the effort of scavenging the code for an answer. the code doesn't reflect any functionality to suggest his claim is true, so if it does work the way he describes it is a bug. if it is a bug, then I'll put an issue up on the Source 1 games repository as well as file a bug report in tf2.

[quote=Lunacide]this is like pub mechanics 101, if a heavy is shooting your back, just jump+crouch
it sends you [i]noticeably[/i] further than if you don't crouch

this is SO easy to test its honestly insane to me that someone would try to argue this[/quote]

the argument that OP was on about had nothing actually to do with whether or not he was correct, the problem was that he was claiming the opposing statement was wrong without providing any evidence to support such a claim. he just told me to go test it myself, and refused to find the answer himself - which he should have done since he was the one making the claim.

I'm still going to run the Lab in a controlled environment with puppet bots since I'm genuinely curious - which is why I went through the effort of scavenging the code for an answer. the code doesn't reflect any functionality to suggest his claim is true, so if it does work the way he describes it is a bug. if it is a bug, then I'll put an issue up on the Source 1 games repository as well as file a bug report in tf2.
42
#42
-11 Frags +
wolsnephxvyperAntimoonAnyone who's ever surfed any explosive should know the difference between the effects of being crouched and standing. There's functionally no difference between being in the air from jumping, and being in the air from a rocket jump, so you can test this by jumping on the ground while being shot by a shotgun. Turn on cl_showpos and there will be a clear difference in peak velocity, and in distance travelled due to knockback.
who am I going to trust, someones feelings or the code that dictates the game theyre playing?
Ah yes, the code that works EXACTLY the way it's supposed too. The code that allows you to detonate sticky traps through solid objects, the code that has engine bugs that allow things like sliding off of polygons to gain speed.

I get what you're elluding too, but there's no denying that the game has a plethora of imperfections and doesn't work as intended all of the time.

as I said before, if it doesn't work as intended then ill fille a bug report and put an issue up on the Source 1 games repository so that it can get fixed.

on your point about the game not working as expected however - those kinds of bugs only exist with logic errors. if there is a lack of logic branching relating to the player state when actually calculating the relevant values (like knock back force) then it is literally impossible to occur in a closed system.

[quote=wolsne][quote=phxvyper][quote=Antimoon]Anyone who's ever surfed any explosive should know the difference between the effects of being crouched and standing. There's functionally no difference between being in the air from jumping, and being in the air from a rocket jump, so you can test this by jumping on the ground while being shot by a shotgun. Turn on cl_showpos and there will be a clear difference in peak velocity, and in distance travelled due to knockback.[/quote]

who am I going to trust, someones feelings or the code that dictates the game theyre playing?[/quote]
Ah yes, the code that works EXACTLY the way it's supposed too. The code that allows you to detonate sticky traps through solid objects, the code that has engine bugs that allow things like sliding off of polygons to gain speed.

I get what you're elluding too, but there's no denying that the game has a plethora of imperfections and doesn't work as intended all of the time.[/quote]

as I said before, if it doesn't work as intended then ill fille a bug report and put an issue up on the Source 1 games repository so that it can get fixed.

on your point about the game not working as expected however - those kinds of bugs only exist with logic errors. if there is a lack of logic branching relating to the player state when actually calculating the relevant values (like knock back force) then it is literally impossible to occur in a closed system.
43
#43
-16 Frags +
GrapeJuiceIIIlmao dude it's not feelings its just "oh look i got sent like 10 feet higher into the air". its a VERY noticeable difference, there is no "ehhhh i think it boosted me a liiiiittle more when i was crouched", no, its very clear which gets you knocked back further

I care about numbers, not "yeah it boosted me like 10 more feet I think". hense why I demand labbing be done on something like this before jumping to a conclusion that you can't prove without calculations and labbing.

[quote=GrapeJuiceIII]lmao dude it's not feelings its just "oh look i got sent like 10 feet higher into the air". its a VERY noticeable difference, there is no "ehhhh i think it boosted me a liiiiittle more when i was crouched", no, its very clear which gets you knocked back further[/quote]

I care about numbers, not "yeah it boosted me like 10 more feet I think". hense why I demand labbing be done on something like this before jumping to a conclusion that you can't prove without calculations and labbing.
44
#44
26 Frags +

lmao

lmao
45
#45
-12 Frags +
Brimstonewhat part of cl_showpos is someones feelings

not an effective way to test since you can log pos or vel at specific intervals using that command. you can, however, use getpos.

[quote=Brimstone]what part of cl_showpos is someones feelings[/quote]

not an effective way to test since you can log pos or vel at specific intervals using that command. you can, however, use getpos.
46
#46
22 Frags +

this is so sad

this is so sad
47
#47
43 Frags +

Tell any demo jumper this shit and they will literally fall off their chair laughing

Tell any demo jumper this shit and they will literally fall off their chair laughing
48
#48
9 Frags +

You have simply misunderstood the code. There is an extremely noticable difference from crouched knockback and uncrouched knockback. Everyone knows that crouched rocket jumping has far greater knockback than uncrouched rocket jumping in any given situation.

You have simply misunderstood the code. There is an extremely noticable difference from crouched knockback and uncrouched knockback. Everyone knows that crouched rocket jumping has far greater knockback than uncrouched rocket jumping in any given situation.
49
#49
9 Frags +

youre not smart

youre not smart
50
#50
20 Frags +
phxvyperI'm still going to run the Lab in a controlled environment with puppet bots since I'm genuinely curious - which is why I went through the effort of scavenging the code for an answer. the code doesn't reflect any functionality to suggest his claim is true, so if it does work the way he describes it is a bug. if it is a bug, then I'll put an issue up on the Source 1 games repository as well as file a bug report in tf2.

r/iamverysmart

[quote=phxvyper]
I'm still going to run the Lab in a controlled environment with puppet bots since I'm genuinely curious - which is why I went through the effort of scavenging the code for an answer. the code doesn't reflect any functionality to suggest his claim is true, so if it does work the way he describes it is a bug. if it is a bug, then I'll put an issue up on the Source 1 games repository as well as file a bug report in tf2.[/quote]

r/iamverysmart
51
#51
0 Frags +

You and your friend aren't very bright

You and your friend aren't very bright
52
#52
13 Frags +

I think you're taking a pretty bad approach to this, consider the following:
If you were to take 1000 new players and observed their gameplay, they would (after a long period of time, granted) discover by themselves that crouching does mean higher knockback forces, they would discover it completely by themselves, without the help of anyone else or any preconceived ideas, I think that's pretty much why everyone is telling you that you're wrong, they have experienced first hand the thing that you're questioning (making smug/snarky comments does not help your case either)

I appreciate you going through code, but there are massive flaws in your reasoning:
- The code base is huge, I doubt you could map a mental model of any major component this quickly
- Have you compiled the code ? Have you made modifications proving your understanding is complete?
- We're talking about C++, literally any component could modify memory directly
- Shit just isn't that black and white, VALVe are known to do a lot of "game feel" type of development, just because the behavior you're searching for isn't explicitly defined in code doesn't mean it wasn't implicitly programmed because it "felt better", that doesn't make it a bug, jesus christ

I think you're taking a pretty bad approach to this, consider the following:
If you were to take 1000 new players and observed their gameplay, they would (after a long period of time, granted) discover by themselves that crouching does mean higher knockback forces, they would discover it completely by themselves, without the help of anyone else or any preconceived ideas, I think that's pretty much why everyone is telling you that you're wrong, they have experienced first hand the thing that you're questioning (making smug/snarky comments does not help your case either)

I appreciate you going through code, but there are massive flaws in your reasoning:
- The code base is huge, I doubt you could map a mental model of any major component this quickly
- Have you compiled the code ? Have you made modifications proving your understanding is complete?
- We're talking about C++, literally any component could modify memory directly
- Shit just isn't that black and white, VALVe are known to do a lot of "game feel" type of development, just because the behavior you're searching for isn't explicitly defined in code doesn't mean it wasn't implicitly programmed because it "felt better", that doesn't make it a bug, jesus christ
53
#53
34 Frags +

I analyzed the code and it says u a dumbass lol

I analyzed the code and it says u a dumbass lol
54
#54
2 Frags +
GrapeJuiceIIIMe and some friends were playing ultiduo a few weeks ago and this topic came up.
We sat at the edge of point on Baloo and crouched and didn’t crouch, and shot a rocket directly at the bottom of the player model, and a shotgun blast directly at the bottom of the player model, and sure enough, being crouched while being knocked back gets you sent higher.
End thread it’s really that simple.

Just going to point 1 possible issue with testing explosive knockback but the source code suggests that all explosive force for knockback purposes has a +/-15% force so it's technically possible if you only test twice that you got 85% force and then 115% force. hitscan doesn't have this though.

Small bits of testing I did confirms what I had already thought was true, that being crouched in air definitely increases knockback for at least Soldier/Demo kinda hard to tell on scout tbh but that could be because scout is so much smaller that once scout is crouched in air he's that much harder to hit.

[quote=GrapeJuiceIII]Me and some friends were playing ultiduo a few weeks ago and this topic came up.
We sat at the edge of point on Baloo and crouched and didn’t crouch, and shot a rocket directly at the bottom of the player model, and a shotgun blast directly at the bottom of the player model, and sure enough, being crouched while being knocked back gets you sent higher.
End thread it’s really that simple.[/quote]

Just going to point 1 possible issue with testing explosive knockback but the source code suggests that all explosive force for knockback purposes has a +/-15% force so it's [i]technically[/i] possible if you only test twice that you got 85% force and then 115% force. hitscan doesn't have this though.

Small bits of testing I did confirms what I had already thought was true, that being crouched in air definitely increases knockback for at least Soldier/Demo kinda hard to tell on scout tbh but that could be because scout is so much smaller that once scout is crouched in air he's that much harder to hit.
55
#55
-6 Frags +

(=´ᆺ`=)

(=´ᆺ`=)
56
#56
6 Frags +

How the fuck is it possible to play the game for over 2,000 hours without realizing this LMFAO just hit couch midair once
Can we also talk about the fact that this degen has multiple vac bans on record

How the fuck is it possible to play the game for over 2,000 hours without realizing this LMFAO just hit couch midair once
Can we also talk about the fact that this degen has multiple vac bans on record
57
#57
8 Frags +
bearodactylCan we also talk about the fact that this degen has multiple vac bans on record

let's not
i made this thread because he wants mathematical/solid code evidence of the thing we were discussing, and since i'm worthless when it comes to code i'm letting the non worthless dudes do it
i didn't make this thread so random people could bash my friend for things unrelated to the discussion

[quote=bearodactyl]
Can we also talk about the fact that this degen has multiple vac bans on record[/quote]

let's not
i made this thread because he wants mathematical/solid code evidence of the thing we were discussing, and since i'm worthless when it comes to code i'm letting the non worthless dudes do it
i didn't make this thread so random people could bash my friend for things unrelated to the discussion
58
#58
8 Frags +
Sherwoodfanupdate: he called me a fucking child and beyond retarded for making this thread

If he's your friend you should ask him what the heck he's doing. Honestly, this thread's topic is of very little importance and he insults you for making this thread?
It's clear why you made it and it seems pretty innocent to me, you're just looking for answers. I don't know what else happened between you two behind the scenes but why would you let your friend say this to you for such an innocent post?

[quote=Sherwoodfan]update: he called me a fucking child and beyond retarded for making this thread[/quote]

If he's your friend you should ask him what the heck he's doing. Honestly, this thread's topic is of very little importance and he insults you for making this thread?
It's clear why you made it and it seems pretty innocent to me, you're just looking for answers. I don't know what else happened between you two behind the scenes but why would you let your friend say this to you for such an innocent post?
59
#59
4 Frags +

because he's my friend and him calling me a fucking child does not affect me in any way... because i know he's my friend

tristen doesn't like losing arguments and discussions can get heated up pretty quickly, which often gives positive results because we end up bringing up various points and views on any topic and that helps diversify our opinions

that's what friends do, call each other names and not start crying because of it

im just looking for someone that can show tristen a part of the game code that proves crouching affects knockback

because he's my friend and him calling me a fucking child does not affect me in any way... because i know he's my friend

tristen doesn't like losing arguments and discussions can get heated up pretty quickly, which often gives positive results because we end up bringing up various points and views on any topic and that helps diversify our opinions

that's what friends do, call each other names and not start crying because of it

im just looking for someone that can show tristen a part of the game code that proves crouching affects knockback
60
#60
47 Frags +

maybe if you pressed crouch it could let you launch yourself out of being an open player

maybe if you pressed crouch it could let you launch yourself out of being an open player
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