genius
bo3 with map advantage
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TF2 General Discussion
mitchWas there a reason for it being Bo3 instead Bo5?
5 maps in the map pool for the mini-season
[quote=mitch]Was there a reason for it being Bo3 instead Bo5?[/quote]
5 maps in the map pool for the mini-season
5 maps in the map pool for the mini-season
mitchWas there a reason for it being Bo3 instead Bo5?
I asked kitteh before the match:
1) they wanted UBF winning team to have weighted advantage
2)
kitteh It’s the best way to reward the two winning performance while keeping the match nights manageable for everyone.
3) bo3 because its a miniseason
[quote=mitch]Was there a reason for it being Bo3 instead Bo5?[/quote]
I asked kitteh before the match:
1) they wanted UBF winning team to have weighted advantage
2) [quote=kitteh] It’s the best way to reward the two winning performance while keeping the match nights manageable for everyone. [/quote]
3) bo3 because its a miniseason
I asked kitteh before the match:
1) they wanted UBF winning team to have weighted advantage
2) [quote=kitteh] It’s the best way to reward the two winning performance while keeping the match nights manageable for everyone. [/quote]
3) bo3 because its a miniseason
The BO3 cause of the miniseason is understandable, but having a minimum of 1 map being played in a "finals" feels very dissatisfactory and more petty than anything. Imagine working hard only to play a potential of 1 map lmao
At that point just give the UBF team free power over the 3 maps played instead - this has the possibility of being very powerful aswell and enables more gaming which I'm sure everyone would want :)
The BO3 cause of the miniseason is understandable, but having a minimum of 1 map being played in a "finals" feels very dissatisfactory and more petty than anything. Imagine working hard only to play a potential of 1 map lmao
At that point just give the UBF team free power over the 3 maps played instead - this has the possibility of being very powerful aswell and enables more gaming which I'm sure everyone would want :)
At that point just give the UBF team free power over the 3 maps played instead - this has the possibility of being very powerful aswell and enables more gaming which I'm sure everyone would want :)
Me in the rgl thread from a year agoI know this isn't going to happen but I'm going to throw it out there list a wish upon a star: don't give an entire 1 map advantage to upper bracket winner in a bo5.
A pass into the final/rest and map pick adv is a fine amount of prize for winning upper bracket.
Keeping it short deprives the teams and specs of good fair tf2 and those opposed care more about the result of the tournament than the actual play in it.
I want to congratulate RGL for technically giving me what I want by just dodging the bo5 and making it a bo3 with a map adv
I cant wait for the next season grand final to be a bo1 with a map advantage that ends instantly, very manageable match night for everyone there!!
[quote=Me in the rgl thread from a year ago]I know this isn't going to happen but I'm going to throw it out there list a wish upon a star: don't give an entire 1 map advantage to upper bracket winner in a [h][u][i][b]bo5.[/b][/i][/u][/h]
A pass into the final/rest and map pick adv is a fine amount of prize for winning upper bracket.
Keeping it short deprives the teams and specs of good fair tf2 and those opposed care more about the result of the tournament than the actual play in it.[/quote]
I want to congratulate RGL for technically giving me what I want by just dodging the bo5 and making it a bo3 with a map adv
I cant wait for the next season grand final to be a bo1 with a map advantage that ends instantly, very manageable match night for everyone there!!
A pass into the final/rest and map pick adv is a fine amount of prize for winning upper bracket.
Keeping it short deprives the teams and specs of good fair tf2 and those opposed care more about the result of the tournament than the actual play in it.[/quote]
I want to congratulate RGL for technically giving me what I want by just dodging the bo5 and making it a bo3 with a map adv
I cant wait for the next season grand final to be a bo1 with a map advantage that ends instantly, very manageable match night for everyone there!!
how much of the map advantage in a bo5/bo3 is influenced by choice of the players over the staff? im surprised players would prefer a map add over just a map veto pick/ban advantage. and don't tell me a map veto pick/ban advantage isn't enough when g6 was allowed to have a pick/ban advantage that allowed them to pick bagel vs. wg eu which is essentially a free map win
also i dont think for a mini season playing two extra maps would've detracted from the miniseason aspect. in fact it would benefit rgl by giving more ad/sub revenue lol
how much of the map advantage in a bo5/bo3 is influenced by choice of the players over the staff? im surprised players would prefer a map add over just a map veto pick/ban advantage. and don't tell me a map veto pick/ban advantage isn't enough when g6 was allowed to have a pick/ban advantage that allowed them to pick bagel vs. wg eu which is essentially a free map win
also i dont think for a mini season playing two extra maps would've detracted from the miniseason aspect. in fact it would benefit rgl by giving more ad/sub revenue lol
also i dont think for a mini season playing two extra maps would've detracted from the miniseason aspect. in fact it would benefit rgl by giving more ad/sub revenue lol
i feel like with 5 maps in the pool, giving a map adv and then 1 banned map for bo5 is kinda fine no
i feel like with 5 maps in the pool, giving a map adv and then 1 banned map for bo5 is kinda fine no
syrus [...] but having a minimum of 1 map being played in a "finals" feels very dissatisfactory and more petty than anything.
I agree. I don't know if this is just me but I don't think you're entitled to winning or "deserve" to win just because you were winning the season. A map advantage with an already smaller grands I feel was unnecessary. Although even outside of the mini-season it has cheapened the playing and or viewing experience.
Like Siyo said, at least map picks provide a meaningful advantage without taking away gameplay. If grands tend to be too long in general, why not shorten the format? Why does it have to be 5 maps?
[quote=syrus] [...] but having a minimum of 1 map being played in a "finals" feels very dissatisfactory and more petty than anything. [/quote]
I agree. I don't know if this is just me but I don't think you're entitled to winning or "deserve" to win just because you were winning the season. A map advantage with an already smaller grands I feel was unnecessary. Although even outside of the mini-season it has cheapened the playing and or viewing experience.
Like Siyo said, at least map picks provide a meaningful advantage without taking away gameplay. If grands tend to be too long in general, why not shorten the format? Why does it [i]have[/i] to be 5 maps?
I agree. I don't know if this is just me but I don't think you're entitled to winning or "deserve" to win just because you were winning the season. A map advantage with an already smaller grands I feel was unnecessary. Although even outside of the mini-season it has cheapened the playing and or viewing experience.
Like Siyo said, at least map picks provide a meaningful advantage without taking away gameplay. If grands tend to be too long in general, why not shorten the format? Why does it [i]have[/i] to be 5 maps?
syrus At that point just give the UBF team free power over the 3 maps played instead - this has the possibility of being very powerful aswell and enables more gaming which I'm sure everyone would want :)
I agree and this issue goes beyond b03 and is still prevalent in b05 grand finals as well where a team starts up 1 map and can win grands in 2 maps. I've tried to think of a good solution to this problem based on how other esports handle it and for tf2, the best solution is something in the realm of pick/ban advantage. In double elimination brackets, sometimes the upper bracket team/player is given a chance to lose grand finals and is granted a 2nd b03/b05 through a "grand finals reset." This is most common in fighting games where the individual matches only take up to 10 minutes at a time and is not practical or realistic for tf2 where a single map alone can run over an hour (ask people who were part of HL grand finals that were reset and went to 4am).
I think besides providing the upper bracket team with a map advantage, the only other possible advantage is to allow the winning team some type of map pick advantage where in a b03 they get to pick 2/3 or even 3/3 of the maps and in a b05 they can pick 3/5 or 4/5 of the maps and/or be provided some sort of advantage in map bans (i.e. the upper bracket team gets to pick 3/5 of the maps and do all the map bans). While some may argue this advantage is too large, is it really greater than starting up an entire map when the alternative is you get to pick more of the maps but still have to win the maps you picked?
I'm not a fan of the argument that the upper bracket team never had to feel the pressure of playing in lowers so they don't deserve some type of advantage. If you can consistently win and finish out playoffs in upper bracket, you should receive some type of advantage in the finals. This argument is more commonly seen during lans where the upper bracket team gets to chill the last day while the team coming from lower bracket potentially played 1 or 2 b03s that same day before grands.
I definitely think the b03/b05 grand finals advantage for the winning team should be reworked for future seasons and I think this is something in particular RGL should consider when consulting with Invite/Advanced teams before a season starts.
[quote=syrus] At that point just give the UBF team free power over the 3 maps played instead - this has the possibility of being very powerful aswell and enables more gaming which I'm sure everyone would want :)[/quote]
I agree and this issue goes beyond b03 and is still prevalent in b05 grand finals as well where a team starts up 1 map and can win grands in 2 maps. I've tried to think of a good solution to this problem based on how other esports handle it and for tf2, the best solution is something in the realm of pick/ban advantage. In double elimination brackets, sometimes the upper bracket team/player is given a chance to lose grand finals and is granted a 2nd b03/b05 through a "grand finals reset." This is most common in fighting games where the individual matches only take up to 10 minutes at a time and is not practical or realistic for tf2 where a single map alone can run over an hour (ask people who were part of HL grand finals that were reset and went to 4am).
I think besides providing the upper bracket team with a map advantage, the only other possible advantage is to allow the winning team some type of map pick advantage where in a b03 they get to pick 2/3 or even 3/3 of the maps and in a b05 they can pick 3/5 or 4/5 of the maps and/or be provided some sort of advantage in map bans (i.e. the upper bracket team gets to pick 3/5 of the maps and do all the map bans). While some may argue this advantage is too large, is it really greater than starting up an entire map when the alternative is you get to pick more of the maps but still have to win the maps you picked?
I'm not a fan of the argument that the upper bracket team never had to feel the pressure of playing in lowers so they don't deserve some type of advantage. If you can consistently win and finish out playoffs in upper bracket, you should receive some type of advantage in the finals. This argument is more commonly seen during lans where the upper bracket team gets to chill the last day while the team coming from lower bracket potentially played 1 or 2 b03s that same day before grands.
I definitely think the b03/b05 grand finals advantage for the winning team should be reworked for future seasons and I think this is something in particular RGL should consider when consulting with Invite/Advanced teams before a season starts.
I agree and this issue goes beyond b03 and is still prevalent in b05 grand finals as well where a team starts up 1 map and can win grands in 2 maps. I've tried to think of a good solution to this problem based on how other esports handle it and for tf2, the best solution is something in the realm of pick/ban advantage. In double elimination brackets, sometimes the upper bracket team/player is given a chance to lose grand finals and is granted a 2nd b03/b05 through a "grand finals reset." This is most common in fighting games where the individual matches only take up to 10 minutes at a time and is not practical or realistic for tf2 where a single map alone can run over an hour (ask people who were part of HL grand finals that were reset and went to 4am).
I think besides providing the upper bracket team with a map advantage, the only other possible advantage is to allow the winning team some type of map pick advantage where in a b03 they get to pick 2/3 or even 3/3 of the maps and in a b05 they can pick 3/5 or 4/5 of the maps and/or be provided some sort of advantage in map bans (i.e. the upper bracket team gets to pick 3/5 of the maps and do all the map bans). While some may argue this advantage is too large, is it really greater than starting up an entire map when the alternative is you get to pick more of the maps but still have to win the maps you picked?
I'm not a fan of the argument that the upper bracket team never had to feel the pressure of playing in lowers so they don't deserve some type of advantage. If you can consistently win and finish out playoffs in upper bracket, you should receive some type of advantage in the finals. This argument is more commonly seen during lans where the upper bracket team gets to chill the last day while the team coming from lower bracket potentially played 1 or 2 b03s that same day before grands.
I definitely think the b03/b05 grand finals advantage for the winning team should be reworked for future seasons and I think this is something in particular RGL should consider when consulting with Invite/Advanced teams before a season starts.
why should the ubf team get an advantage in the grand final at all?? the advantage they get by winning is getting to play in the grand final
why should the ubf team get an advantage in the grand final at all?? the advantage they get by winning is getting to play in the grand final
the other team has literally lost an entire series while the ubf winner hasn't. SOMEONE has to face them in grands, so that argument doesn't really hold. They definitely need some advantage
the other team has literally lost an entire series while the ubf winner hasn't. SOMEONE has to face them in grands, so that argument doesn't really hold. They definitely need some advantage
the punishment for losing an ENTIRE SERIES is you have to play another. ubf winners get to grand final. that is their advantage. they dont have to play again until grand finals. why should they get more of an advantage?
the punishment for losing an ENTIRE SERIES is you have to play another. ubf winners get to grand final. that is their advantage. they dont have to play again until grand finals. why should they get more of an advantage?
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