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deadring ubercharge save bug? rgl 6s
1
#1
0 Frags +

allowed in hl but controversial talks about it , allowed in 6's tho?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1uQGZg97zY

allowed in hl but controversial talks about it , allowed in 6's tho?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1uQGZg97zY
2
#2
4 Frags +

I don't think it should be allowed but its also like really obvious if you've watched how its done, won't really fool anyone that is aware of it in 6s

I also think that a demoman is better for holding mid than the other team being a little confused

I don't think it should be allowed but its also like really obvious if you've watched how its done, won't really fool anyone that is aware of it in 6s

I also think that a demoman is better for holding mid than the other team being a little confused
3
#3
-3 Frags +

I think its fine to have it, If people think that its broken, they lose their demo and they have a spy, even if you get forced you can still counter. and if you don't force you can take a exchange up 2 and get the point. I don't personally think that it's broken and the setup for it to not be aware of it - well if you fall for it, you deserve to lose that uber - if you want a fix then just change it so that the weapons dropped by the dr aren't able to be picked up. I don't think the development is meta changing as I have picked up mediguns to get uber and quickly picked mine back up to save uber.

I think its fine to have it, If people think that its broken, they lose their demo and they have a spy, even if you get forced you can still counter. and if you don't force you can take a exchange up 2 and get the point. I don't personally think that it's broken and the setup for it to not be aware of it - well if you fall for it, you deserve to lose that uber - if you want a fix then just change it so that the weapons dropped by the dr aren't able to be picked up. I don't think the development is meta changing as I have picked up mediguns to get uber and quickly picked mine back up to save uber.
4
#4
20 Frags +

you don't have to launch your demo right? like that's not part of the glitch or anything?

you don't have to launch your demo right? like that's not part of the glitch or anything?
5
#5
-5 Frags +

as the only team that does it i can say pretty much the only value you really get out of the strat is baiting a team that doesnt know about it into taking what they think is an ad push and punishing them
it is strong to be able to sack a full buff demo with a flash but if a team knows that you still have uber then they can just pressure back knowing youre down a demo with a player stuck on dr spy, baiting appropriately so as not to get caught. its really bad if you dont get a force on your sack too
also it only works on niche spots in maps where a dr spy can take fall damage in a position thats to swap mediguns and close enough for a clean bomb in, which ends up being kind of restrictive
overall is a funny gimmick that really only works if the other team doesnt know, dont really care if it gets banned or not

as the only team that does it i can say pretty much the only value you really get out of the strat is baiting a team that doesnt know about it into taking what they think is an ad push and punishing them
it is strong to be able to sack a full buff demo with a flash but if a team knows that you still have uber then they can just pressure back knowing youre down a demo with a player stuck on dr spy, baiting appropriately so as not to get caught. its really bad if you dont get a force on your sack too
also it only works on niche spots in maps where a dr spy can take fall damage in a position thats to swap mediguns [i]and[/i] close enough for a clean bomb in, which ends up being kind of restrictive
overall is a funny gimmick that really only works if the other team doesnt know, dont really care if it gets banned or not
6
#6
0 Frags +

Is it possible to have your dr spy drop the medigun and go back to spawn to swap before it despawns?

Is it possible to have your dr spy drop the medigun and go back to spawn to swap before it despawns?
7
#7
0 Frags +
Hunter_2_0Is it possible to have your dr spy drop the medigun and go back to spawn to swap before it despawns?

It is technically

[quote=Hunter_2_0]Is it possible to have your dr spy drop the medigun and go back to spawn to swap before it despawns?[/quote]
It is technically
8
#8
-10 Frags +

ohhh yeaahh thats me.

this works well as a way to give your demo a good sac opportunity. Its also very confusing. Should be patched next season but it was stated as being allowed for hl so we figured we could do it. It's cool tech, but its not actually that broken.

Heres us confusing anglerfish in our prematch

ohhh yeaahh thats me.

this works well as a way to give your demo a good sac opportunity. Its also very confusing. Should be patched next season but it was stated as being allowed for hl so we figured we could do it. It's cool tech, but its not actually that broken.

[url=https://clips.twitch.tv/ColdbloodedInnocentPanCharlieBitMe-VatMiBEUldi1_diq] Heres us confusing anglerfish in our prematch [/url]
9
#9
5 Frags +

This can also be used to reuse a kritz multiple times, or you can drop other weapons. You can drop your demo another sticky full of 8 sticks when you're holding last and he can have 16 sticks + traps when the other team pushes

alto (RGL forums thread about this tech in highlander)some key facts -

-DR dropped weapons count as regular dropped weapons
-dropped weapons are fully loaded
-dropped weapons expire after 30 seconds without being picked up
-picking up a dropped weapon resets it’s 30 second timer

not only can a demo get 15 stickies on mid, if he wins the mid he can continue to juggle 2 launchers throughout the round, and with a 30 second lifespan on the dropped weapons it’s even possible to die and make it back before it fades. and even if it does, your spy can just do it again at any point later, and taking your spy out of the game for 10-20 seconds is arguably a small price to pay for a 2nd sticky if used correctly

you could take it to 11 and have your DR spy just fucking generate weapons with a dispenser during downtime
This can also be used to reuse a kritz multiple times, or you can drop other weapons. You can drop your demo another sticky full of 8 sticks when you're holding last and he can have 16 sticks + traps when the other team pushes

[quote=alto (RGL forums thread about this tech in highlander)]some key facts -

-DR dropped weapons count as regular dropped weapons
-dropped weapons are fully loaded
-dropped weapons expire after 30 seconds without being picked up
-picking up a dropped weapon resets it’s 30 second timer

not only can a demo get 15 stickies on mid, if he wins the mid he can continue to juggle 2 launchers throughout the round, and with a 30 second lifespan on the dropped weapons it’s even possible to die and make it back before it fades. and even if it does, your spy can just do it again at any point later, and taking your spy out of the game for 10-20 seconds is arguably a small price to pay for a 2nd sticky if used correctly

you could take it to 11 and have your DR spy just fucking generate weapons with a dispenser during downtime[/quote]
10
#10
-5 Frags +
eddiieeThis can also be used to reuse a kritz multiple times, or you can drop other weapons. You can drop your demo another sticky full of 8 sticks when you're holding last and he can have 16 sticks + traps when the other team pushes

stickies fizzle out when you swap launchers
the only real tech you can get from swapping weapons that arent mediguns is getting more ammo than you had

[quote=eddiiee]This can also be used to reuse a kritz multiple times, or you can drop other weapons. You can drop your demo another sticky full of 8 sticks when you're holding last and he can have 16 sticks + traps when the other team pushes

[/quote]
stickies fizzle out when you swap launchers
the only real tech you can get from swapping weapons that arent mediguns is getting more ammo than you had
11
#11
-8 Frags +
eddiieeThis can also be used to reuse a kritz multiple times, or you can drop other weapons. You can drop your demo another sticky full of 8 sticks when you're holding last and he can have 16 sticks + traps when the other team pushes
alto (RGL forums thread)some key facts -

-DR dropped weapons count as regular dropped weapons
-dropped weapons are fully loaded
-dropped weapons expire after 30 seconds without being picked up
-picking up a dropped weapon resets it’s 30 second timer

not only can a demo get 15 stickies on mid, if he wins the mid he can continue to juggle 2 launchers throughout the round, and with a 30 second lifespan on the dropped weapons it’s even possible to die and make it back before it fades. and even if it does, your spy can just do it again at any point later, and taking your spy out of the game for 10-20 seconds is arguably a small price to pay for a 2nd sticky if used correctly

you could take it to 11 and have your DR spy just fucking generate weapons with a dispenser during downtime

small note, you cant pick up a weapon if you are currently reloading so you need to switch to your melee or a full weapon in order to actually take advantage of this.

[quote=eddiiee]This can also be used to reuse a kritz multiple times, or you can drop other weapons. You can drop your demo another sticky full of 8 sticks when you're holding last and he can have 16 sticks + traps when the other team pushes

[quote=alto (RGL forums thread)]some key facts -

-DR dropped weapons count as regular dropped weapons
-dropped weapons are fully loaded
-dropped weapons expire after 30 seconds without being picked up
-picking up a dropped weapon resets it’s 30 second timer

not only can a demo get 15 stickies on mid, if he wins the mid he can continue to juggle 2 launchers throughout the round, and with a 30 second lifespan on the dropped weapons it’s even possible to die and make it back before it fades. and even if it does, your spy can just do it again at any point later, and taking your spy out of the game for 10-20 seconds is arguably a small price to pay for a 2nd sticky if used correctly

you could take it to 11 and have your DR spy just fucking generate weapons with a dispenser during downtime[/quote][/quote]

small note, you cant pick up a weapon if you are currently reloading so you need to switch to your melee or a full weapon in order to actually take advantage of this.
12
#12
9 Frags +

if i am reading this correctly, it's just picking up a medigun to cancel your current uber and save some % like this?
This was removed in the current season in europe.

if i am reading this correctly, it's just picking up a medigun to cancel your current uber and save some % [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAnh4DWDREU]like this?[/url]
This was removed in the current season in europe.
13
#13
7 Frags +

Ban please

Ban please
14
#14
-7 Frags +

you can thank my team for giving millie the idea to do this

you can thank my team for giving millie the idea to do this
15
#15
32 Frags +

can we go back to banning weapon pickups in general

can we go back to banning weapon pickups in general
16
#16
6 Frags +
bawnerif i am reading this correctly, it's just picking up a medigun to cancel your current uber and save some % like this?
This was removed in the current season in europe.

it is, and tf2-comp-fixes addresses this with the following feature:

When enabled with sm_empty_active_ubercharges_when_dropped 1, mediguns that are dropped while the ubercharge is active will be emptied.
This prevents the trick of swapping mediguns while ubercharged to conserve some of the charge.

the argument is that activating an ubercharge is a transaction that implies the complete consumption of the ubercharge, whether it's used efficiently or not.

with that plugin, the aspect of the dead ringer doesn't matter much.

the theory crafting about demoman stickies seems very silly to me.

[quote=bawner]if i am reading this correctly, it's just picking up a medigun to cancel your current uber and save some % [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAnh4DWDREU]like this?[/url]
This was removed in the current season in europe.[/quote]
it is, and tf2-comp-fixes addresses this with the following feature:

[quote]
When enabled with sm_empty_active_ubercharges_when_dropped 1, mediguns that are dropped while the ubercharge is active will be emptied.
This prevents the trick of swapping mediguns while ubercharged to conserve some of the charge.
[/quote]

the argument is that activating an ubercharge is a transaction that implies the complete consumption of the ubercharge, whether it's used efficiently or not.

with that plugin, the aspect of the dead ringer doesn't matter much.

the theory crafting about demoman stickies seems very silly to me.
17
#17
-21 Frags +

Mannnn ppl get so mad when you do stuff that isn't the same exact stuff people have been doing for years, huh?

Mannnn ppl get so mad when you do stuff that isn't the same exact stuff people have been doing for years, huh?
18
#18
24 Frags +
millieMannnn ppl get so mad when you do stuff that isn't the same exact stuff people have been doing for years, huh?

ultiduo players have been doing this forever. you are not cool.

[quote=millie]Mannnn ppl get so mad when you do stuff that isn't the same exact stuff people have been doing for years, huh?[/quote]
ultiduo players have been doing this forever. you are not cool.
19
#19
-32 Frags +
twiikuumillieMannnn ppl get so mad when you do stuff that isn't the same exact stuff people have been doing for years, huh?ultiduo players have been doing this forever. you are not cool.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/642084375567138829/948422787108851732/rubber.gif

[quote=twiikuu][quote=millie]Mannnn ppl get so mad when you do stuff that isn't the same exact stuff people have been doing for years, huh?[/quote]
ultiduo players have been doing this forever. you are not cool.[/quote]
[img]https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/642084375567138829/948422787108851732/rubber.gif[/img]
20
#20
14 Frags +

I probably would have found this more annoying if they swapped off spy before the demo sac but in the instance clipped they're down a demoman and on spy rather than soldier after the swap. They really lack any way of stopping the other team from pushing into mid after the sac. We (blue) didn't really capitalize off this because we we're too busy arguing about whether or not they even popped LOL!

edit: also a good way to inflate uber logs, i approve.

I probably would have found this more annoying if they swapped off spy before the demo sac but in the instance clipped they're down a demoman and on spy rather than soldier after the swap. They really lack any way of stopping the other team from pushing into mid after the sac. We (blue) didn't really capitalize off this because we we're too busy arguing about whether or not they even popped LOL!

edit: also a good way to inflate uber logs, i approve.
21
#21
20 Frags +

Picking up mediguns shouldn't be allowed, and you sure as fuck shouldn't be allowed to use uber and then instantly get another 90% uber.

A better situation would be that you are on last, stalemating, enemy team is sending sacs to force the uber. You are down a soldier to deny the sacs, but it doesn't even matter since the spy just gets you another free 90% uber. Literally doesn't matter if you get forced anymore, just have to snipe to actually drop the medic.

Once you commit your life on spy/sniper/kritz it should be a commitment until you die or walk back to spawn to change off. You already get the surprise factor from these 3, but now you get a second surprise factor with no time deficit. Disgustingly annoying and only serves to slow down the game as the team that wants to be aggressive now has to be wary and check for another thing (solemn vow medic has to see if enemy med has uber so needs line of sight) on top of: stickies, offclasses and hiders (including wall bugging soldiers).

It's going to get to the point where teams will just have to say "eh fuck it" and push into or off of last and just gamble if the stars are aligning instead of being able to use actual advantages in positioning and firepower.

To me, that just seems boring. Less skill being put on team cohesion and making good split second decisions in fights and instead, more luck on which 10 of the 100 possible ways the enemy can win the round do you need to ignore as it's impossible to clear everything.

Picking up mediguns shouldn't be allowed, and you sure as fuck shouldn't be allowed to use uber and then instantly get another 90% uber.

A better situation would be that you are on last, stalemating, enemy team is sending sacs to force the uber. You are down a soldier to deny the sacs, but it doesn't even matter since the spy just gets you another free 90% uber. Literally doesn't matter if you get forced anymore, just have to snipe to actually drop the medic.

Once you commit your life on spy/sniper/kritz it should be a commitment until you die or walk back to spawn to change off. You already get the surprise factor from these 3, but now you get a second surprise factor with no time deficit. Disgustingly annoying and only serves to slow down the game as the team that wants to be aggressive now has to be wary and check for another thing (solemn vow medic has to see if enemy med has uber so needs line of sight) on top of: stickies, offclasses and hiders (including wall bugging soldiers).

It's going to get to the point where teams will just have to say "eh fuck it" and push into or off of last and just gamble if the stars are aligning instead of being able to use actual advantages in positioning and firepower.

To me, that just seems boring. Less skill being put on team cohesion and making good split second decisions in fights and instead, more luck on which 10 of the 100 possible ways the enemy can win the round do you need to ignore as it's impossible to clear everything.
22
#22
15 Frags +

You don't even need to keep the spy on last, you can just have him drop off that shit and then swap back. As long as you swap the mediguns every 30 secs it stays on the ground lol. No shot this doesn't get banned.

You don't even need to keep the spy on last, you can just have him drop off that shit and then swap back. As long as you swap the mediguns every 30 secs it stays on the ground lol. No shot this doesn't get banned.
23
#23
-13 Frags +

should be allowed

should be allowed
24
#24
17 Frags +

https://medal.tv/games/tf2/clips/cvETrL_OZ7BJs/ePEiuzDx8dQi

https://medal.tv/games/tf2/clips/cvETrL_OZ7BJs/ePEiuzDx8dQi
25
#25
1 Frags +
Hunter_2_0You don't even need to keep the spy on last, you can just have him drop off that shit and then swap back. As long as you swap the mediguns every 30 secs it stays on the ground lol. No shot this doesn't get banned.

I looked back at the video and the dropped medigun doesn't decrease in uber over time, so it's also bugged. The uber decreases only when the med uses lmao. Did not realise it even worked like that.

Nvm looked again and is just the swap thing, just did it fast. Disgusting again tbh i see what you mean. I thought the dropped one had ubercharge on it, thank god it doesn't.

[quote=Hunter_2_0]You don't even need to keep the spy on last, you can just have him drop off that shit and then swap back. As long as you swap the mediguns every 30 secs it stays on the ground lol. No shot this doesn't get banned.[/quote]

I looked back at the video and the dropped medigun doesn't decrease in uber over time, so it's also bugged. The uber decreases only when the med uses lmao. Did not realise it even worked like that.

Nvm looked again and is just the swap thing, just did it fast. Disgusting again tbh i see what you mean. I thought the dropped one had ubercharge on it, thank god it doesn't.
26
#26
-3 Frags +

Aren't spy disguise health/uber percentage determined at the time you disguise or did they patch it so it changes now? Otherwise, couldn't you disguise as your med, take a trade, then have your spy activate DR and pick up the medigun to get another uber after the first one already went to 0? Seems more useful than a demo sac.

Edit: You could also do this with enemy medic disguise to nullify uber disad, no?

Aren't spy disguise health/uber percentage determined at the time you disguise or did they patch it so it changes now? Otherwise, couldn't you disguise as your med, take a trade, then have your spy activate DR and pick up the medigun to get another uber after the first one already went to 0? Seems more useful than a demo sac.

Edit: You could also do this with enemy medic disguise to nullify uber disad, no?
27
#27
7 Frags +
ZestyAren't spy disguise health/uber percentage determined at the time you disguise or did they patch it so it changes now? Otherwise, couldn't you disguise as your med, take a trade, then have your spy activate DR and pick up the medigun to get another uber after the first one already went to 0? Seems more useful than a demo sac.

No. Spy drops an empty medi-gun. The medic uses, switches to the medi-gun dropped by the spy and then you switch back to your own medi-gun before the decay starts to take a good chunk of your remaining uber. The downside of this strat is running a spy.

[quote=Zesty]Aren't spy disguise health/uber percentage determined at the time you disguise or did they patch it so it changes now? Otherwise, couldn't you disguise as your med, take a trade, then have your spy activate DR and pick up the medigun to get another uber after the first one already went to 0? Seems more useful than a demo sac.[/quote]

No. Spy drops an empty medi-gun. The medic uses, switches to the medi-gun dropped by the spy and then you switch back to your own medi-gun before the decay starts to take a good chunk of your remaining uber. The downside of this strat is running a spy.
28
#28
UGC
6 Frags +

https://forums.rgl.gg/topic/2150/dr-spy-medigun-pickup - Here is the HL version of this thread from the RGL forums. RGL did permit it to be used this season but said they would reevaluate it after the season ends. It's pretty clear that this has no place in competitive TF2, and although it probably won't be used every single match and it probably won't result in any major meta-shifts, the simple fact of the matter is, once the visual indicator of an Uber has been recognized, historically, there was no way to end that uber and retain any large amount of the charge. This isn't like a medic faking Uber by using voice commands, this is an actual glowing player, which has always meant that the other team has used. It's also pretty clear Valve did not intentionally add this mechanic to the game, and that this is just the unintended consequence of how the Source engine deals with dropped weapons + Uber.

https://forums.rgl.gg/topic/2150/dr-spy-medigun-pickup - Here is the HL version of this thread from the RGL forums. RGL did permit it to be used this season but said they would reevaluate it after the season ends. It's pretty clear that this has no place in competitive TF2, and although it [i]probably[/i] won't be used every single match and it [i]probably[/i] won't result in any major meta-shifts, the simple fact of the matter is, once the visual indicator of an Uber has been recognized, historically, there was no way to end that uber and retain any large amount of the charge. This isn't like a medic faking Uber by using voice commands, this is an actual glowing player, which has always meant that the other team has used. It's also pretty clear Valve did not intentionally add this mechanic to the game, and that this is just the unintended consequence of how the Source engine deals with dropped weapons + Uber.
29
#29
0 Frags +
NoNoeWayZestyAren't spy disguise health/uber percentage determined at the time you disguise or did they patch it so it changes now? Otherwise, couldn't you disguise as your med, take a trade, then have your spy activate DR and pick up the medigun to get another uber after the first one already went to 0? Seems more useful than a demo sac.
No. Spy drops an empty medi-gun. The medic uses, switches to the medi-gun dropped by the spy and then you switch back to your own medi-gun before the decay starts to take a good chunk of your remaining uber. The downside of this strat is running a spy.

Ah understood, the medic is obscured when he does the second switch in the initial video so I didn't realize that's what was happening.

[quote=NoNoeWay][quote=Zesty]Aren't spy disguise health/uber percentage determined at the time you disguise or did they patch it so it changes now? Otherwise, couldn't you disguise as your med, take a trade, then have your spy activate DR and pick up the medigun to get another uber after the first one already went to 0? Seems more useful than a demo sac.[/quote]

No. Spy drops an empty medi-gun. The medic uses, switches to the medi-gun dropped by the spy and then you switch back to your own medi-gun before the decay starts to take a good chunk of your remaining uber. The downside of this strat is running a spy.[/quote]

Ah understood, the medic is obscured when he does the second switch in the initial video so I didn't realize that's what was happening.
30
#30
-1 Frags +
GeneralNick...and that this is just the unintended consequence of how the Source engine deals with dropped weapons + Uber.

While it's a pretty daft gimmick. None of this is unintentional. Every mechanic that is used to make this happen is 100% kosher. This is not a bug by any means. I doubt valve imagined this strat but noone did and it's kind of unfair to use that as an argument for it.

Taiku's fix of removing any uber from dropped medi-guns is fine IMO. Banning picking up dropped weapons is dumb though.

[quote=GeneralNick]...and that this is just the unintended consequence of how the Source engine deals with dropped weapons + Uber.[/quote]

While it's a pretty daft gimmick. None of this is unintentional. Every mechanic that is used to make this happen is 100% kosher. This is not a bug by any means. I doubt valve imagined this strat but noone did and it's kind of unfair to use that as an argument for it.

Taiku's fix of removing any uber from dropped medi-guns is fine IMO. Banning picking up dropped weapons is dumb though.
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