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NA Invite Top 100: #50-#41
posted in News
31
#31
31 Frags +

tlr played against milkmen and plumbers

tlr played against milkmen and plumbers
32
#32
22 Frags +
clckwrkjetzi really dont understand how alex.exe didnt make it when destro has like, the exact same resume but back in 2008 when everyone was bad and made top 50
I think alex.exe should've made the list but I'll really only defend boomers if they were exceptional and destro was really, really good back then. Probably still a bit too high. Even though the competition is pretty lackluster you pretty much have to innovate and improve entirely by yourself. Even someone like myself that people think is a boomer had a lot of people to learn off of when I was getting into the game and that really accelerated my growth as a player and that knowledge bank only grows as time goes on. For a lot of the boomer squad they were learning the game and building the foundation for people that came after them, which I think is pretty impressive even if they were playing against people who could barely rocket jump. I'll reiterate though that I only really care if they were exceptionally good. Most of the boomer squad that span the 70-100 range could've all been back to back in the 90s and that would've been fine.

I didn't really mean it as an anti-destro post, and more that tery seems to think its more impressive to be good between 2008-2010 than e.g 2019-2021, which makes no sense to me. If alex and destro were both a top 2 demo for the same amount of time then they should receive about equal rankings, maybe alex a bit higher since on the eye test he's obviously much more skilled since he's playing in a later era where it's easier to get better. Instead we have destro at 50 and alex completely snubbed, which makes me question the methodology used to rank the players.

Like either alex should be here in this post right next to destro since their accomplishments are very similar, or both of them should have missed top 100, not one or the other, which indicates to me that theres some serious pro-old player bias/nostalgia in play. (Also branslam also has basically the same resume as destro with 4 playoff appearances, but branslam beat b4nny. Yet is somehow like 40 spots lower than destro??)

[quote=clckwrk][quote=jetz]i really dont understand how alex.exe didnt make it when destro has like, the exact same resume but back in 2008 when everyone was bad and made top 50[/quote]

I think alex.exe should've made the list but I'll really only defend boomers if they were exceptional and destro was really, really good back then. Probably still a bit too high. Even though the competition is pretty lackluster you pretty much have to innovate and improve entirely by yourself. Even someone like myself that people think is a boomer had a lot of people to learn off of when I was getting into the game and that really accelerated my growth as a player and that knowledge bank only grows as time goes on. For a lot of the boomer squad they were learning the game and building the foundation for people that came after them, which I think is pretty impressive even if they were playing against people who could barely rocket jump. I'll reiterate though that I only really care if they were exceptionally good. Most of the boomer squad that span the 70-100 range could've all been back to back in the 90s and that would've been fine.[/quote]

I didn't really mean it as an anti-destro post, and more that tery seems to think its more impressive to be good between 2008-2010 than e.g 2019-2021, which makes no sense to me. If alex and destro were both a top 2 demo for the same amount of time then they should receive about equal rankings, maybe alex a bit higher since on the eye test he's obviously much more skilled since he's playing in a later era where it's easier to get better. Instead we have destro at 50 and alex completely snubbed, which makes me question the methodology used to rank the players.

Like either alex should be here in this post right next to destro since their accomplishments are very similar, or both of them should have missed top 100, not one or the other, which indicates to me that theres some serious pro-old player bias/nostalgia in play. (Also branslam also has basically the same resume as destro with 4 playoff appearances, but branslam beat b4nny. Yet is somehow like 40 spots lower than destro??)
33
#33
14 Frags +

lansky top 10 or we riot

lansky top 10 or we riot
34
#34
-16 Frags +
jetzclckwrkjetzi really dont understand how alex.exe didnt make it when destro has like, the exact same resume but back in 2008 when everyone was bad and made top 50
I think alex.exe should've made the list but I'll really only defend boomers if they were exceptional and destro was really, really good back then. Probably still a bit too high. Even though the competition is pretty lackluster you pretty much have to innovate and improve entirely by yourself. Even someone like myself that people think is a boomer had a lot of people to learn off of when I was getting into the game and that really accelerated my growth as a player and that knowledge bank only grows as time goes on. For a lot of the boomer squad they were learning the game and building the foundation for people that came after them, which I think is pretty impressive even if they were playing against people who could barely rocket jump. I'll reiterate though that I only really care if they were exceptionally good. Most of the boomer squad that span the 70-100 range could've all been back to back in the 90s and that would've been fine.

I didn't really mean it as an anti-destro post, and more that tery seems to think its more impressive to be good between 2008-2010 than e.g 2019-2021, which makes no sense to me. If alex and destro were both a top 2 demo for the same amount of time then they should receive about equal rankings, maybe alex a bit higher since on the eye test he's obviously much more skilled since he's playing in a later era where it's easier to get better. Instead we have destro at 50 and alex completely snubbed, which makes me question the methodology used to rank the players.

Like either alex should be here in this post right next to destro since their accomplishments are very similar, or both of them should have missed top 100, not one or the other, which indicates to me that theres some serious pro-old player bias/nostalgia in play. (Also branslam also has basically the same resume as destro with 4 playoff appearances, but branslam beat b4nny. Yet is somehow like 40 spots lower than destro??)

Alex.midxe

[quote=jetz][quote=clckwrk][quote=jetz]i really dont understand how alex.exe didnt make it when destro has like, the exact same resume but back in 2008 when everyone was bad and made top 50[/quote]

I think alex.exe should've made the list but I'll really only defend boomers if they were exceptional and destro was really, really good back then. Probably still a bit too high. Even though the competition is pretty lackluster you pretty much have to innovate and improve entirely by yourself. Even someone like myself that people think is a boomer had a lot of people to learn off of when I was getting into the game and that really accelerated my growth as a player and that knowledge bank only grows as time goes on. For a lot of the boomer squad they were learning the game and building the foundation for people that came after them, which I think is pretty impressive even if they were playing against people who could barely rocket jump. I'll reiterate though that I only really care if they were exceptionally good. Most of the boomer squad that span the 70-100 range could've all been back to back in the 90s and that would've been fine.[/quote]

I didn't really mean it as an anti-destro post, and more that tery seems to think its more impressive to be good between 2008-2010 than e.g 2019-2021, which makes no sense to me. If alex and destro were both a top 2 demo for the same amount of time then they should receive about equal rankings, maybe alex a bit higher since on the eye test he's obviously much more skilled since he's playing in a later era where it's easier to get better. Instead we have destro at 50 and alex completely snubbed, which makes me question the methodology used to rank the players.

Like either alex should be here in this post right next to destro since their accomplishments are very similar, or both of them should have missed top 100, not one or the other, which indicates to me that theres some serious pro-old player bias/nostalgia in play. (Also branslam also has basically the same resume as destro with 4 playoff appearances, but branslam beat b4nny. Yet is somehow like 40 spots lower than destro??)[/quote]

Alex.midxe
35
#35
-7 Frags +

Y'all complaining just research and write your own 100+ paragraph article instead. I'll read it.

That said, I see no issue with a lot of the older players getting ranked highly. You kinda have to look at each time period in a vaccuum. Pre ammomod, pre MGE, cl_interp 1, TF2 was a whole different game. Especially with the differences in unlocks. This is clearly an opinion piece/editorial and as such Tery will weigh things differently than you might.

Y'all complaining just research and write your own 100+ paragraph article instead. I'll read it.

That said, I see no issue with a lot of the older players getting ranked highly. You kinda have to look at each time period in a vaccuum. Pre ammomod, pre MGE, cl_interp 1, TF2 was a whole different game. Especially with the differences in unlocks. This is clearly an opinion piece/editorial and as such Tery will weigh things differently than you might.
36
#36
-15 Frags +

just do a top 30 for each era, i guess some played over multiple but thats few and far between

just do a top 30 for each era, i guess some played over multiple but thats few and far between
37
#37
-8 Frags +

tf2 needs era-adjusted stats. we need ops+, we need runs created, and we definitely need a park factor for those poor fucks who had to play badlands in playoffs over and over again

tf2 needs era-adjusted stats. we need ops+, we need runs created, and we definitely need a park factor for those poor fucks who had to play badlands in playoffs over and over again
38
#38
30 Frags +

Some players, like Platinum or Shade could never be imagined seen playing IM even after a decade's break. They're just that good. Players that were literal end-game bosses of the competitive experience throughout their career, and very hard to match their impact. It's hard to recapture and express the essence without being there to experience it. But those types of players undoubtedly deserve spots on a Top 100 list beyond their years.

It's only filial to sprinkle the old legends in between the modern stars. If the Overwatch exodus never happened, would the boomers still be reserving those prestigious invite slots? That's the hot topic and a main crutch of accurately placing people. This list is weaving the history of the competitive experience in with hard stats. I love it so far. Everyone's gonna have a slightly different metric and personal opinions on some picks.

Some players, like Platinum or Shade could never be imagined seen playing IM even after a decade's break. They're just [i]that good.[/i] Players that were literal end-game bosses of the competitive experience throughout their career, and very hard to match their impact. It's hard to recapture and express the essence without being there to experience it. But those types of players undoubtedly deserve spots on a Top 100 list beyond their years.

It's only filial to sprinkle the old legends in between the modern stars. If the Overwatch exodus never happened, would the boomers still be reserving those prestigious invite slots? That's the hot topic and a main crutch of accurately placing people. This list is weaving the history of the competitive experience in with hard stats. I love it so far. Everyone's gonna have a slightly different metric and personal opinions on some picks.
39
#39
RGB LAN
18 Frags +
jetzI didn't really mean it as an anti-destro post, and more that tery seems to think its more impressive to be good between 2008-2010 than e.g 2019-2021, which makes no sense to me.

Golden era has more weight to it than other eras, which is outlined in the hub post he made to preface all of this. This is not only an issue of comparing players from different eras (which is always impossible), but in TF2's case, comparing eras when competition levels were different in the volume of players as well as what's on the line.

A similar case I can think of is that Khaos is considered the best Marvel vs Capcom 2 player in the world right now, but he only started to make a name for himself about 7 years ago. The number of people playing MvC2 by that time was far less with not nearly as many tournaments, so it's hard to put him in the top 10 all-time list. Once again, such as the problem with eras.

edit: I'm literally outlining Tery's structure (that I guess many of you didn't read) and I'm getting downfragged for it, lol. You don't have to agree with Tery's structure, and I don't even 100% agree with Tery's structure, but just be happy that it's content for a game that we care(d) about. This is all subjective as fuck at the end of the day, and it's fun to have banter about it.

[quote=jetz]I didn't really mean it as an anti-destro post, and more that tery seems to think its more impressive to be good between 2008-2010 than e.g 2019-2021, which makes no sense to me.[/quote]

Golden era has more weight to it than other eras, which is outlined in the hub post he made to preface all of this. This is not only an issue of comparing players from different eras (which is always impossible), but in TF2's case, comparing eras when competition levels were different in the volume of players as well as what's on the line.

A similar case I can think of is that Khaos is considered the best Marvel vs Capcom 2 player in the world right now, but he only started to make a name for himself about 7 years ago. The number of people playing MvC2 by that time was far less with not nearly as many tournaments, so it's hard to put him in the top 10 all-time list. Once again, such as the problem with eras.

edit: I'm literally outlining Tery's structure (that I guess many of you didn't read) and I'm getting downfragged for it, lol. You don't have to agree with Tery's structure, and I don't even 100% agree with Tery's structure, but just be happy that it's content for a game that we care(d) about. This is all subjective as fuck at the end of the day, and it's fun to have banter about it.
40
#40
6 Frags +

>but in TF2's case, comparing eras when competition levels were different in the volume of players as well as what's on the line.

there are now more players and higher prize pools tho, by that logic the current era should be more important

like just opening a random "golden era" liquipedia page, the one for season 9, invite had 5.2k on the line. the last seasons of invite had >9k in prizes. ESEA also averaged having like ~80 teams in the whole league, while the last season of rgl had >140 teams

>but in TF2's case, comparing eras when competition levels were different in the volume of players as well as what's on the line.

there are now more players and higher prize pools tho, by that logic the current era should be more important

like just opening a random "golden era" liquipedia page, the one for season 9, invite had 5.2k on the line. the last seasons of invite had >9k in prizes. ESEA also averaged having like ~80 teams in the whole league, while the last season of rgl had >140 teams
41
#41
RGB LAN
26 Frags +

I should have clarified what I meant by "more on the line", so my bad about being vague about that.

What I meant by that is being able to qualify for LAN, as well as trying to attract big gaming orgs like Pandemic, EG, and Complexity. Unless there is a Smash Melee-esque kind of revival of interest in competitive TF2, then no big gaming orgs are looking at TF2 right now. While TF2 should have been in the same kind of light that CS:GO has been, all we'd be doing is discussing for the millionth time about how Valve doesn't give a shit and dropped an impossible-to-fuck-up formula that they had going for CS:GO.

I should have clarified what I meant by "more on the line", so my bad about being vague about that.

What I meant by that is being able to qualify for LAN, as well as trying to attract big gaming orgs like Pandemic, EG, and Complexity. Unless there is a Smash Melee-esque kind of revival of interest in competitive TF2, then no big gaming orgs are looking at TF2 right now. While TF2 [i]should have[/i] been in the same kind of light that CS:GO has been, all we'd be doing is discussing for the millionth time about how Valve doesn't give a shit and dropped an impossible-to-fuck-up formula that they had going for CS:GO.
42
#42
1 Frags +

You really have to think of things in the correct context. Era played matters a shit ton and you are not giving it the proper importance IMO. If you choose to devalue the Era played, then this list is not going to make any sense to you for good reason.

The stats tery posts next to each players name are just really "fun stats" that are nice to see and read at a glance when reviewing the article. They are not the end all determining factors in any way but they are typically the only thing referenced when posts are made saying "omg dude is #87th but has same stats as #56".

Its like trying to compare Bryce Harper to Mickey Mantle. In just about every quantitative way, Harper is the superior baseball player. He is faster, stronger, better trained, better baseball education, etc. However, you will not find a single person who knows any history that would rate Bryce above Mantle. In time, its still possible for Bryce to surpass Mantle but its going to take a long time and many great seasons.

The same logic is for all the comments you make about branslam and other "RGL era" players. At this time (today) they are where they are in the long complex history of TF2. In time, they would and will probably make their way up but it takes success over many seasons against quality competition.

You really have to think of things in the correct context. Era played matters a shit ton and you are not giving it the proper importance IMO. If you choose to devalue the Era played, then this list is not going to make any sense to you for good reason.

The stats tery posts next to each players name are just really "fun stats" that are nice to see and read at a glance when reviewing the article. They are not the end all determining factors in any way but they are typically the only thing referenced when posts are made saying "omg dude is #87th but has same stats as #56".

Its like trying to compare Bryce Harper to Mickey Mantle. In just about every quantitative way, Harper is the superior baseball player. He is faster, stronger, better trained, better baseball education, etc. However, you will not find a single person who knows any history that would rate Bryce above Mantle. In time, its still possible for Bryce to surpass Mantle but its going to take a long time and many great seasons.

The same logic is for all the comments you make about branslam and other "RGL era" players. At this time (today) they are where they are in the long complex history of TF2. In time, they would and will probably make their way up but it takes success over many seasons against quality competition.
43
#43
37 Frags +

some of yall taking this shit way too seriously

some of yall taking this shit way too seriously
44
#44
46 Frags +
dbksome of yall taking this shit way too seriously

if my favorite invite player, okiewaka, does not make top 10 on this list, i am going to kidnap tery and execute him isis style on stream at rgl lan

[quote=dbk]some of yall taking this shit way too seriously[/quote]
if my favorite invite player, okiewaka, does not make top 10 on this list, i am going to kidnap tery and execute him isis style on stream at rgl lan
45
#45
6 Frags +
THEBILLDOZERdbksome of yall taking this shit way too seriouslyif my favorite invite player, okiewaka, does not make top 10 on this list, i am going to kidnap tery and execute him isis style on stream at rgl lan

as a tf2 shia, I believe that one day the occluded mahdi (Tony Swan) will return and defeat the forces of evil (b4nny) once and for all

[quote=THEBILLDOZER][quote=dbk]some of yall taking this shit way too seriously[/quote]
if my favorite invite player, okiewaka, does not make top 10 on this list, i am going to kidnap tery and execute him isis style on stream at rgl lan[/quote]

as a tf2 shia, I believe that one day the occluded mahdi (Tony Swan) will return and defeat the forces of evil (b4nny) once and for all
46
#46
-15 Frags +

if #20-#1 are not people formerly or on the froyotech roster, threadmaker Tery_ is extremely biased. I cannot stand at the mere thought of my beloved deity, goddess, Grant “b4nny wG hater” Vincent not caressing the number 1 beside his glorious name…

if #20-#1 are not people formerly or on the froyotech roster, threadmaker Tery_ is extremely biased. I cannot stand at the mere thought of my beloved deity, goddess, Grant “b4nny wG hater” Vincent not caressing the number 1 beside his glorious name…
47
#47
14 Frags +

I think the name I'm most intrigued to see where Tery places on this list is Ruwin
I also think Tery will place him lower than I would on the list, which is totally fair.

I think the name I'm most intrigued to see where Tery places on this list is Ruwin
I also think Tery will place him lower than I would on the list, which is totally fair.
48
#48
15 Frags +
DreamboatI think the name I'm most intrigued to see where Tery places on this list is Ruwin
I also think Tery will place him lower than I would on the list, which is totally fair.

I think most people would underrate ruwin if they didn't see him at his absolute peak, as short as it was

[quote=Dreamboat]I think the name I'm most intrigued to see where Tery places on this list is Ruwin
I also think Tery will place him lower than I would on the list, which is totally fair.[/quote]

I think most people would underrate ruwin if they didn't see him at his absolute peak, as short as it was
49
#49
2 Frags +

I'm personally waiting for anonemouse, kalkin and loronix

I'm personally waiting for anonemouse, kalkin and loronix
50
#50
-3 Frags +

https://i.ibb.co/SQFFJrn/wqdwqd.png

Good to see TheFragile made the list!

[img]https://i.ibb.co/SQFFJrn/wqdwqd.png[/img]

Good to see TheFragile made the list!
51
#51
3 Frags +
THEBILLDOZERif my favorite invite player, okiewaka, does not make top 10 on this list, i am going to kidnap tery and execute him isis style on stream at rgl lan

This seems very extreme. Why are people supprting this? THEBILLDOZER, please do not execute tery on OR off stream.

[quote=THEBILLDOZER]
if my favorite invite player, okiewaka, does not make top 10 on this list, i am going to kidnap tery and execute him isis style on stream at rgl lan[/quote]

This seems very extreme. Why are people supprting this? THEBILLDOZER, please do not execute tery on OR off stream.
52
#52
7 Frags +

corsa #41? now that's just nonsense

corsa #41? now that's just nonsense
53
#53
-5 Frags +
cozenLandOfTheBeanshttps://www.teamfortress.tv/56201/scrap-tf-what-is-your-opinion/?page=2 post 54
I didn't know this post even existed and I wish I responded to this much sooner. I already talked to the person in question right after we got back from lan. At the time, everything was fine, and I'm reaching out to her as I type this to clear up any doubt regarding the situation. Rape is a STRONG accusation to throw around and I would never do that to anybody

https://www.teamfortress.tv/31358/the-lan-experience#28 who was this about btw?

[quote=cozen][quote=LandOfTheBeans]https://www.teamfortress.tv/56201/scrap-tf-what-is-your-opinion/?page=2 post 54[/quote]

I didn't know this post even existed and I wish I responded to this much sooner. I already talked to the person in question right after we got back from lan. At the time, everything was fine, and I'm reaching out to her as I type this to clear up any doubt regarding the situation. Rape is a STRONG accusation to throw around and I would never do that to anybody[/quote]

https://www.teamfortress.tv/31358/the-lan-experience#28 who was this about btw?
54
#54
15 Frags +
eddiieecozenLandOfTheBeanshttps://www.teamfortress.tv/56201/scrap-tf-what-is-your-opinion/?page=2 post 54
I didn't know this post even existed and I wish I responded to this much sooner. I already talked to the person in question right after we got back from lan. At the time, everything was fine, and I'm reaching out to her as I type this to clear up any doubt regarding the situation. Rape is a STRONG accusation to throw around and I would never do that to anybody

https://www.teamfortress.tv/31358/the-lan-experience#28 who was this about btw?

I know I'm getting old when there's people who have never seen shade vlogs

[quote=eddiiee][quote=cozen][quote=LandOfTheBeans]https://www.teamfortress.tv/56201/scrap-tf-what-is-your-opinion/?page=2 post 54[/quote]

I didn't know this post even existed and I wish I responded to this much sooner. I already talked to the person in question right after we got back from lan. At the time, everything was fine, and I'm reaching out to her as I type this to clear up any doubt regarding the situation. Rape is a STRONG accusation to throw around and I would never do that to anybody[/quote]

https://www.teamfortress.tv/31358/the-lan-experience#28 who was this about btw?[/quote]

I know I'm getting old when there's people who have never seen shade vlogs
55
#55
-2 Frags +
alfaeddiieecozenLandOfTheBeanshttps://www.teamfortress.tv/56201/scrap-tf-what-is-your-opinion/?page=2 post 54
I didn't know this post even existed and I wish I responded to this much sooner. I already talked to the person in question right after we got back from lan. At the time, everything was fine, and I'm reaching out to her as I type this to clear up any doubt regarding the situation. Rape is a STRONG accusation to throw around and I would never do that to anybody

https://www.teamfortress.tv/31358/the-lan-experience#28 who was this about btw?

I know I'm getting old when there's people who have never seen shade vlogs

oops

[quote=alfa][quote=eddiiee][quote=cozen][quote=LandOfTheBeans]https://www.teamfortress.tv/56201/scrap-tf-what-is-your-opinion/?page=2 post 54[/quote]

I didn't know this post even existed and I wish I responded to this much sooner. I already talked to the person in question right after we got back from lan. At the time, everything was fine, and I'm reaching out to her as I type this to clear up any doubt regarding the situation. Rape is a STRONG accusation to throw around and I would never do that to anybody[/quote]

https://www.teamfortress.tv/31358/the-lan-experience#28 who was this about btw?[/quote]

I know I'm getting old when there's people who have never seen shade vlogs[/quote]

oops
56
#56
7 Frags +
SpaceCadetYou really have to think of things in the correct context. Era played matters a shit ton and you are not giving it the proper importance IMO. If you choose to devalue the Era played, then this list is not going to make any sense to you for good reason.

The stats tery posts next to each players name are just really "fun stats" that are nice to see and read at a glance when reviewing the article. They are not the end all determining factors in any way but they are typically the only thing referenced when posts are made saying "omg dude is #87th but has same stats as #56".

Its like trying to compare Bryce Harper to Mickey Mantle. In just about every quantitative way, Harper is the superior baseball player. He is faster, stronger, better trained, better baseball education, etc. However, you will not find a single person who knows any history that would rate Bryce above Mantle. In time, its still possible for Bryce to surpass Mantle but its going to take a long time and many great seasons.

The same logic is for all the comments you make about branslam and other "RGL era" players. At this time (today) they are where they are in the long complex history of TF2. In time, they would and will probably make their way up but it takes success over many seasons against quality competition.

Yeah but branslam beat banny

[quote=SpaceCadet]You really have to think of things in the correct context. Era played matters a shit ton and you are not giving it the proper importance IMO. If you choose to devalue the Era played, then this list is not going to make any sense to you for good reason.

The stats tery posts next to each players name are just really "fun stats" that are nice to see and read at a glance when reviewing the article. They are not the end all determining factors in any way but they are typically the only thing referenced when posts are made saying "omg dude is #87th but has same stats as #56".

Its like trying to compare Bryce Harper to Mickey Mantle. In just about every quantitative way, Harper is the superior baseball player. He is faster, stronger, better trained, better baseball education, etc. However, you will not find a single person who knows any history that would rate Bryce above Mantle. In time, its still possible for Bryce to surpass Mantle but its going to take a long time and many great seasons.

The same logic is for all the comments you make about branslam and other "RGL era" players. At this time (today) they are where they are in the long complex history of TF2. In time, they would and will probably make their way up but it takes success over many seasons against quality competition.[/quote]
Yeah but branslam beat banny
57
#57
17 Frags +

In all seriousness tho we do kind of have a unifying tool to use throughout the eras that is b4nny, he has played and won almost every season since his invite debut. He is a tool that can be used to see how players match up to him and his super teams throughout the eras and defeating him is arguably the hardest thing to do in competitive tf2. I personally think that stat is being WAY undervalued

In all seriousness tho we do kind of have a unifying tool to use throughout the eras that is b4nny, he has played and won almost every season since his invite debut. He is a tool that can be used to see how players match up to him and his super teams throughout the eras and defeating him is arguably the hardest thing to do in competitive tf2. I personally think that stat is being WAY undervalued
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