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RGL's reach outside of official matches
31
#31
23 Frags +
_Makkabeus

"3/4ths of players agree that scrims should be moderated to a lighter extent than matches. We agree as well. While reviewing cases, we consider this context important, which ultimately does play a role in how we deal with reports occurring in a scrim environment. We have opted and are continuing to issue warnings or simply log the case instead of a penalty. It should be noted that this does not mean slurs and excessive toxicity are not moderated. This will be covered below."

In the article you provided, the community had voted to make scrims be moderated lightly contrary to what you have done. Sure they may have voted to make slurs in scrims punished, but the policy was already set to only issue warnings with minor cases. With someone else saying a slur in a pug scrim, it makes no sense that the scrim organizer should be banned. You are not following your own policies that you have set here, so does the RGL community's opinion really not matter?

Also where are the sponsors that were supposed to come out of these rules? Could it be that someone saying an offhand slur in a scrim on their server does not matter at all in the grand scheme of things?

[quote=_Makkabeus][/quote]

"3/4ths of players agree that scrims should be moderated to a lighter extent than matches. We agree as well. While reviewing cases, we consider this context important, which ultimately does play a role in how we deal with reports occurring in a scrim environment. [u]We have opted and are continuing to issue warnings or simply log the case instead of a penalty.[/u] It should be noted that this does not mean slurs and excessive toxicity are not moderated. This will be covered below."

In the article you provided, the community had voted to make scrims be moderated lightly contrary to what you have done. Sure they may have voted to make slurs in scrims punished, but the policy was already set to only issue warnings with minor cases. With someone else saying a slur in a pug scrim, it makes no sense that the scrim organizer should be banned. You are not following your own policies that you have set here, so does the RGL community's opinion really not matter?

Also where are the sponsors that were supposed to come out of these rules? Could it be that someone saying an offhand slur in a scrim on their server does not matter at all in the grand scheme of things?
32
#32
-30 Frags +

I agree, RGL needs to stop, exaflamer? kid with attention issues who now has a super power trip because he controls the league. I am sick of this stuff, I am a grown ass man, and this little exa flamer baby smelly child minded arse comes and changes everything makes tf2 into an LGBT safe space, so if you cant agree with those types, you are instantly forever banned, in fact you just get banned. Haven't been banned yet? instant ban. Fuck RGL.

I agree, RGL needs to stop, exaflamer? kid with attention issues who now has a super power trip because he controls the league. I am sick of this stuff, I am a grown ass man, and this little exa flamer baby smelly child minded arse comes and changes everything makes tf2 into an LGBT safe space, so if you cant agree with those types, you are instantly forever banned, in fact you just get banned. Haven't been banned yet? instant ban. Fuck RGL.
33
#33
7 Frags +
SpaceCadetYou can complain all you want. The bottom line is that RGL has the entire NA 6's community by the balls because no other viable leagues exist.

Going to be a massive prick right now, so -frags to the right please, but the community chose this. We had options in the works and I spent how much time not only trying to make something better for the community, but also specifically saying that RGL was not what you guys needed or wanted. As far as I am concerned people can't complain, the choice was made even with all of the warnings and issues that people talked about. You made your own bed, now you get to sleep in it.

[quote=SpaceCadet]You can complain all you want. The bottom line is that RGL has the entire NA 6's community by the balls because no other viable leagues exist.
[/quote]



Going to be a massive prick right now, so -frags to the right please, but the community chose this. We had options in the works and I spent how much time not only trying to make something better for the community, but also specifically saying that RGL was not what you guys needed or wanted. As far as I am concerned people can't complain, the choice was made even with all of the warnings and issues that people talked about. You made your own bed, now you get to sleep in it.
34
#34
7 Frags +
hushTHEBILLDOZERIf you're banned from rgl, you're not even able to scrim with friends any more?
Sure you can. You just can't keep spamming slurs after the ban
In the event that a banned player is playing in an RGL scrim or pickup game scrim of RGL players, and said player commits an act that would result in further bans, then the leader(s), active RGL player(s), and/or scrim organizer(s) responsible for that player's participation are subject to a possible league ban, in addition to a minor team penalty.

You are right about this one. It's not as if it was a completely normal scrim that rgl caught wind of. That being said, the fact that dogb got caught in the crossfire is what I'm most concerned about. Seems like "you are responsible for what your team says in a scrim" seems easy to abuse, and the term "scrim organizer" is vague and not tied to any one member of the team. What if nobody in the pugscrim said they organized it?

[quote=hush][quote=THEBILLDOZER]If you're banned from rgl, you're not even able to scrim with friends any more? [/quote]

Sure you can. You just can't keep spamming slurs after the ban

[quote]In the event that a banned player is playing in an RGL scrim or pickup game scrim of RGL players, and said player commits an act that would result in further bans, then the leader(s), active RGL player(s), and/or scrim organizer(s) responsible for that player's participation are subject to a possible league ban, in addition to a minor team penalty.[/quote][/quote]
You are right about this one. It's not as if it was a completely normal scrim that rgl caught wind of. That being said, the fact that dogb got caught in the crossfire is what I'm most concerned about. Seems like "you are responsible for what your team says in a scrim" seems easy to abuse, and the term "scrim organizer" is vague and not tied to any one member of the team. What if nobody in the pugscrim said they organized it?
35
#35
14 Frags +
hushTHEBILLDOZERIf you're banned from rgl, you're not even able to scrim with friends any more?
Sure you can. You just can't keep spamming slurs after the ban
In the event that a banned player is playing in an RGL scrim or pickup game scrim of RGL players, and said player commits an act that would result in further bans, then the leader(s), active RGL player(s), and/or scrim organizer(s) responsible for that player's participation are subject to a possible league ban, in addition to a minor team penalty.

Not only can you continue to play, but if someone isn't aware of your restriction, invites you, and you all of a sudden decide you dislike that person, you have the ability to get THEM in trouble.

[quote=hush][quote=THEBILLDOZER]If you're banned from rgl, you're not even able to scrim with friends any more? [/quote]

Sure you can. You just can't keep spamming slurs after the ban

[quote]In the event that a banned player is playing in an RGL scrim or pickup game scrim of RGL players, and said player commits an act that would result in further bans, then the leader(s), active RGL player(s), and/or scrim organizer(s) responsible for that player's participation are subject to a possible league ban, in addition to a minor team penalty.[/quote][/quote]

Not only can you continue to play, but if someone isn't aware of your restriction, invites you, and you all of a sudden decide you dislike that person, you have the ability to get THEM in trouble.
36
#36
12 Frags +
JustASmallTownSpankI agree, RGL needs to stop, exaflamer? kid with attention issues who now has a super power trip because he controls the league. I am sick of this stuff, I am a grown ass man, and this little exa flamer baby smelly child minded arse comes and changes everything makes tf2 into an LGBT safe space, so if you cant agree with those types, you are instantly forever banned, in fact you just get banned. Haven't been banned yet? instant ban. Fuck RGL.knsumethis is a cheating rgl overreach thread nobody cares about ur weird obsession with trans ppl
[quote=JustASmallTownSpank]I agree, RGL needs to stop, exaflamer? kid with attention issues who now has a super power trip because he controls the league. I am sick of this stuff, I am a grown ass man, and this little exa flamer baby smelly child minded arse comes and changes everything makes tf2 into an LGBT safe space, so if you cant agree with those types, you are instantly forever banned, in fact you just get banned. Haven't been banned yet? instant ban. Fuck RGL.[/quote]
[quote=knsume]this is a [s]cheating[/s] rgl overreach thread nobody cares about ur weird obsession with trans ppl[/quote]
37
#37
13 Frags +
Tino_SpaceCadetYou can complain all you want. The bottom line is that RGL has the entire NA 6's community by the balls because no other viable leagues exist.
Going to be a massive prick right now, so -frags to the right please, but the community chose this. We had options in the works and I spent how much time not only trying to make something better for the community, but also specifically saying that RGL was not what you guys needed or wanted. As far as I am concerned people can't complain, the choice was made even with all of the warnings and issues that people talked about. You made your own bed, now you get to sleep in it.

ok if u wanna go that route how did 1 derek sigafoo set up a functioning league in like half the time it took everyone else in the tf2 community

ig this does ignore that he didnt create a new league from scratch and just integrated 6s into his exiting platform actually. pretty shit point once i thought about it for a few minutes. whoops

[quote=Tino_][quote=SpaceCadet]You can complain all you want. The bottom line is that RGL has the entire NA 6's community by the balls because no other viable leagues exist.
[/quote]



Going to be a massive prick right now, so -frags to the right please, but the community chose this. We had options in the works and I spent how much time not only trying to make something better for the community, but also specifically saying that RGL was not what you guys needed or wanted. As far as I am concerned people can't complain, the choice was made even with all of the warnings and issues that people talked about. You made your own bed, now you get to sleep in it.[/quote]

ok if u wanna go that route how did 1 derek sigafoo set up a functioning league in like half the time it took everyone else in the tf2 community

ig this does ignore that he didnt create a new league from scratch and just integrated 6s into his exiting platform actually. pretty shit point once i thought about it for a few minutes. whoops
38
#38
9 Frags +

The problem with this “yeah let’s all leave RGL!!” talk is that froyo plays in rgl, and where the top teams go so goes the community

In theory if EVERYONE switched over to a diff league all at once I’m sure froyo would follow, but if it’s any more gradual then it’s not happening

The problem with this “yeah let’s all leave RGL!!” talk is that froyo plays in rgl, and where the top teams go so goes the community

In theory if EVERYONE switched over to a diff league all at once I’m sure froyo would follow, but if it’s any more gradual then it’s not happening
39
#39
37 Frags +

rgl...

rgl...
40
#40
37 Frags +

BAD

BAD
41
#41
39 Frags +
smesirgl...smesiBAD

https://media2.giphy.com/media/l4q8cJzGdR9J8w3hS/giphy.gif

[quote=smesi]rgl...[/quote]
[quote=smesi]BAD[/quote]
[img]https://media2.giphy.com/media/l4q8cJzGdR9J8w3hS/giphy.gif[/img]
42
#42
18 Frags +
smesirgl...smesiBAD

stunning and brave

[quote=smesi]rgl...[/quote]
[quote=smesi]BAD[/quote]
stunning and brave
43
#43
NA Production Lead/EIC
4 Frags +
crackbabydumpsterok if u wanna go that route how did 1 derek sigafoo set up a functioning league in like half the time it took everyone else in the tf2 community

ig this does ignore that he didnt create a new league from scratch and just integrated 6s into his exiting platform actually. pretty shit point once i thought about it for a few minutes. whoops

NACL also just used citadel, the same framework that ozfortress, fbtf, and rsl, among others uses.

[quote=crackbabydumpster]
ok if u wanna go that route how did 1 derek sigafoo set up a functioning league in like half the time it took everyone else in the tf2 community

ig this does ignore that he didnt create a new league from scratch and just integrated 6s into his exiting platform actually. pretty shit point once i thought about it for a few minutes. whoops[/quote]
NACL also just used citadel, the same framework that ozfortress, fbtf, and rsl, among others uses.
44
#44
13 Frags +
JustASmallTownSpankI agree, RGL needs to stop, exaflamer? kid with attention issues who now has a super power trip because he controls the league. I am sick of this stuff, I am a grown ass man, and this little exa flamer baby smelly child minded arse comes and changes everything makes tf2 into an LGBT safe space, so if you cant agree with those types, you are instantly forever banned, in fact you just get banned. Haven't been banned yet? instant ban. Fuck RGL.

why the fuck shouldn't TF2 be a safe space for LGBT people??? lmao what is wrong with you.

[quote=JustASmallTownSpank]I agree, RGL needs to stop, exaflamer? kid with attention issues who now has a super power trip because he controls the league. I am sick of this stuff, I am a grown ass man, and this little exa flamer baby smelly child minded arse comes and changes everything makes tf2 into an LGBT safe space, so if you cant agree with those types, you are instantly forever banned, in fact you just get banned. Haven't been banned yet? instant ban. Fuck RGL.[/quote]

why the fuck shouldn't TF2 be a safe space for LGBT people??? lmao what is wrong with you.
45
#45
0 Frags +

they fell for the bait

they fell for the bait
46
#46
9 Frags +

if you cry about your bigoted friend getting banned you're a fucking dork!

if you cry about your bigoted friend getting banned you're a fucking dork!
47
#47
TFNew
41 Frags +

if a banned player continues being a moron after the ban, extend their ban. dont punish other people because they organised a scrim or single mix (pugscrim) that includes that player. pretty simple.

if the player doesnt care about being banned forever and people dont like scrimming them, then it should be down to the players to blacklist those teams from their scrims.

if a banned player continues being a moron after the ban, extend their ban. dont punish other people because they organised a scrim or single mix (pugscrim) that includes that player. pretty simple.

if the player doesnt care about being banned forever and people dont like scrimming them, then it should be down to the players to blacklist those teams from their scrims.
48
#48
50 Frags +

makka is bald lol

makka is bald lol
49
#49
-6 Frags +
fygmakka is bald lol

@ambroon pull up for part 2?

[quote=fyg]makka is bald lol[/quote]
@ambroon pull up for part 2?
50
#50
13 Frags +
Tino_SpaceCadetYou can complain all you want. The bottom line is that RGL has the entire NA 6's community by the balls because no other viable leagues exist.
Going to be a massive prick right now, so -frags to the right please, but the community chose this. We had options in the works and I spent how much time not only trying to make something better for the community, but also specifically saying that RGL was not what you guys needed or wanted. As far as I am concerned people can't complain, the choice was made even with all of the warnings and issues that people talked about. You made your own bed, now you get to sleep in it.

tino you and all those other guys that tried to make a league had just as terrible ideas as RGL and a fraction of a plan to run it, if people committed to playing in your league (which they couldn't because it was 2 years away from being 2 years away) it would have fell apart at the seem. You running a league would have been equally terrible to sigafoo and the league would have prolly been even less playable and about just as dumb as RGL is.

[quote=Tino_][quote=SpaceCadet]You can complain all you want. The bottom line is that RGL has the entire NA 6's community by the balls because no other viable leagues exist.
[/quote]



Going to be a massive prick right now, so -frags to the right please, but the community chose this. We had options in the works and I spent how much time not only trying to make something better for the community, but also specifically saying that RGL was not what you guys needed or wanted. As far as I am concerned people can't complain, the choice was made even with all of the warnings and issues that people talked about. You made your own bed, now you get to sleep in it.[/quote]

tino you and all those other guys that tried to make a league had just as terrible ideas as RGL and a fraction of a plan to run it, if people committed to playing in your league (which they couldn't because it was 2 years away from being 2 years away) it would have fell apart at the seem. You running a league would have been equally terrible to sigafoo and the league would have prolly been even less playable and about just as dumb as RGL is.
51
#51
1 Frags +

Not sure what you think I was trying to do or support, or even what you think my position was, but would love to know because those statements are quite vacuous currently.

Not sure what you think I was trying to do or support, or even what you think my position was, but would love to know because those statements are quite vacuous currently.
52
#52
36 Frags +

i mean cat got a 6 month ban for slurs while ash got like 3 weeks, and safrix got like 3 months last season, i feel like ash’s ban length is more reasonable, and also you shouldn’t have to “appeal” after your ban length expires. after you sit out your punishment the admins don’t deserve to read an apology from you, that system is just smug power tripping lol

i mean cat got a 6 month ban for slurs while ash got like 3 weeks, and safrix got like 3 months last season, i feel like ash’s ban length is more reasonable, and also you shouldn’t have to “appeal” after your ban length expires. after you sit out your punishment the admins don’t deserve to read an apology from you, that system is just smug power tripping lol
53
#53
10 Frags +

better be careful to not run into a banned player in a pub or else you'll get banned too

or be in the same country or state as a banned player or else you'll get banned

better be careful to not run into a banned player in a pub or else you'll get banned too

or be in the same country or state as a banned player or else you'll get banned
54
#54
1 Frags +

real footage of RGL admins in action
https://youtu.be/ndc3-JMVYAw

real footage of RGL admins in action
https://youtu.be/ndc3-JMVYAw
55
#55
-2 Frags +

I feel like none of the RGL threads would exist if
1) gamers could go a single day without saying a slur
2) people just turned off chat

I feel like none of the RGL threads would exist if
1) gamers could go a single day without saying a slur
2) people just turned off chat
56
#56
payload.tf
0 Frags +
mr_poporeal footage of RGL admins in action
https://youtu.be/ndc3-JMVYAw

Oddly accurate

[quote=mr_popo]real footage of RGL admins in action
https://youtu.be/ndc3-JMVYAw[/quote]
Oddly accurate
57
#57
21 Frags +

hmm ok im a fucking retard and dont understand how the internet works, thank god there's no way i could look all this shit up-
oh

RGL announced in April, but the season didn't start until August. I recall feeling that they had straight up lied about when their season was gonna start specifically to undercut NACL, implying an early July season start, but ESEA playoffs didn't even end until July 23. However, I don't see any mention of when season 1 started on their website other than this line, tucked away under Survey: "We will then review the results and make announce the changes we will make prior to July 1st. This way teams will still have several weeks to understand any changes that are happening before the start of the season."

Meanwhile, the people who wound up trying to run NACL made this post before the initial RGL announcement. They followed up with a more official thread on June 30. I believe the site was functional by this point. And once RGL inevitably announced a delay two days later, because "oh lol right we have to wait for esea to end, silly us!" there was no fucking excuse for us as a community to not switch over. There is, undeniably, a full month from June 30 until August 16 where NACL was clearly a viable option. I feel the New Beginnings post extends that grace period all the way back to April. So stop trying to blame the NACL staff for our stupid fucking decisions as a community, for fuck's sake.

hmm ok im a fucking retard and dont understand how the internet works, thank god there's no way i could look all this shit up-
oh

RGL announced [url=https://rgl.gg/Public/Articles/Default.aspx?a=1236&r=40]in April,[/url] but the season didn't start until August. I recall feeling that they had straight up lied about when their season was gonna start specifically to undercut NACL, implying an early July season start, but [url=https://play.esea.net/match/15149538]ESEA playoffs didn't even end until July 23.[/url] However, I don't see any mention of when season 1 started on their website other than this line, tucked away under Survey: [url=https://rgl.gg/Public/Articles/Default.aspx?a=1250&r=40]"We will then review the results and make announce the changes we will make prior to July 1st. This way teams will still have several weeks to understand any changes that are happening before the start of the season."[/url]

Meanwhile, the people who wound up trying to run NACL made [url=https://www.teamfortress.tv/52247/new-beginnings]this post[/url] [i]before[/i] the initial RGL announcement. They followed up with a more official thread [url=https://www.teamfortress.tv/52987/unveiling-nacl]on June 30[/url]. I believe the site was functional by this point. And once RGL [url=https://rgl.gg/Public/Articles/Default.aspx?a=1260&r=40]inevitably announced a delay[/url] two days later, because "oh lol right we have to wait for esea to end, silly us!" there was no fucking excuse for us as a community to not switch over. There is, undeniably, a full month from June 30 until August 16 where NACL was clearly a viable option. I feel the New Beginnings post extends that grace period all the way back to April. So stop trying to blame the NACL staff for our stupid fucking decisions as a community, for fuck's sake.
58
#58
46 Frags +

if rgl wants to police scrims maybe they should also provide servers

if rgl wants to police scrims maybe they should also provide servers
59
#59
21 Frags +
_Makkabeus
When enforcing this rule, RGL makes the assumption that the person who organized the scrim or pugscrim is responsible for each player's inclusion in it, which is true in almost every situation.

In my experience at least, this is far from the truth. 90% of my pugscrim experiences involve me and 1 or 2 other people all scrambling to message everyone on our friendslist, and we usually all pull 1-2 people each. I'm sure there are others who can back me up here.

_Makkabeus
Ultimately though, as a scrim organizer, you take responsibility for your team in the scrim. This rule is also by far our most widely published rule, being displayed in a large banner at the top of every banned player's page, so we feel it is reasonable to expect players to be aware of this rule.

It wasn't a scrim, it was a pugscrim. I feel like there is a big enough distinction here to where you can make it a rule, maybe define what RGL sees as a pugscrim (x players on a roster or something) instead of just blanket banning like this.

[quote=_Makkabeus]

When enforcing this rule, RGL makes the assumption that the person who organized the scrim or pugscrim is responsible for each player's inclusion in it, which is true in almost every situation.
[/quote]
In my experience at least, this is far from the truth. 90% of my pugscrim experiences involve me and 1 or 2 other people all scrambling to message everyone on our friendslist, and we usually all pull 1-2 people each. I'm sure there are others who can back me up here.
[quote=_Makkabeus]

Ultimately though, as a scrim organizer, you take responsibility for your team in the scrim. This rule is also by far our most widely published rule, being displayed in a large banner at the top of every banned player's page, so we feel it is reasonable to expect players to be aware of this rule.
[/quote]
It wasn't a scrim, it was a pugscrim. I feel like there is a big enough distinction here to where you can make it a rule, maybe define what RGL sees as a pugscrim (x players on a roster or something) instead of just blanket banning like this.
60
#60
28 Frags +
Menachem

rgl committed to put more money towards b4nny's rent, simple as

[quote=Menachem][/quote]
rgl committed to put more money towards b4nny's rent, simple as
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