Upvote Upvoted 101 Downvote Downvoted
1 2 3
New Beginnings
1
#1
0 Frags +

Hey all,

After ESEA announced the end of its TF2 league, we have been pondering the best way for the NA scene to move forward, with intense discussion over the past few days. We've come to a general consensus on what we'd like to achieve, and are sharing it to keep everyone in the loop and get some general feedback to improve our concepts.

First of all, we would like to establish a global organization to unite all of the various leagues playing competitive TF2. Previous efforts to do so (in particular, the global whitelist) have been chaotic and did not really accomplish desirable results. A more structured process would help to reach agreement and consensus as to how things should move forward. The goal would be that all stakeholders (major and minor leagues, other platforms, and players, among others) would have some representation within this org to make sure everyone's views are taken into account. We haven't finalized the details yet (including its name!), but we have many proposals under consideration.

Within the purview of this org, we'd like to establish a new league in North America that runs similarly to ETF2L and ozfortress - of the community, by the community, for the community. All ESEA players would be able to migrate to this new league, which would offer distinct advantages thanks to being a community-ran league.

Behind these efforts are some of competitive TF2's best and brightest contributors, and we hope to recruit more along the way in our quest to unify and sustain the competitive TF2 scene for the years to come. We're glad that some ETF2L and ozfortress staff are providing us with their valuable insight in this endeavour and we hope to build a long and trusting relationship with their respective organizations.

This is where we begin the conversation. Please ask questions and provide feedback, it is greatly important for us to refine what we have so far to make sure it serves everyone as best as possible. Or offer your help! We'll be needing more hands to get everything running.

Thanks for your support!

- erynn, samiface, Tino_, tsc, twiikuu

Hey all,

After ESEA announced the end of its TF2 league, we have been pondering the best way for the NA scene to move forward, with intense discussion over the past few days. We've come to a general consensus on what we'd like to achieve, and are sharing it to keep everyone in the loop and get some general feedback to improve our concepts.

First of all, we would like to establish a global organization to unite all of the various leagues playing competitive TF2. Previous efforts to do so (in particular, the global whitelist) have been chaotic and did not really accomplish desirable results. A more structured process would help to reach agreement and consensus as to how things should move forward. The goal would be that all stakeholders (major and minor leagues, other platforms, and players, among others) would have some representation within this org to make sure everyone's views are taken into account. We haven't finalized the details yet (including its name!), but we have many proposals under consideration.

Within the purview of this org, we'd like to establish a new league in North America that runs similarly to ETF2L and ozfortress - of the community, by the community, for the community. All ESEA players would be able to migrate to this new league, which would offer distinct advantages thanks to being a community-ran league.

Behind these efforts are some of competitive TF2's best and brightest contributors, and we hope to recruit more along the way in our quest to unify and sustain the competitive TF2 scene for the years to come. We're glad that some ETF2L and ozfortress staff are providing us with their valuable insight in this endeavour and we hope to build a long and trusting relationship with their respective organizations.

This is where we begin the conversation. Please ask questions and provide feedback, it is greatly important for us to refine what we have so far to make sure it serves everyone as best as possible. Or offer your help! We'll be needing more hands to get everything running.

Thanks for your support!

- erynn, samiface, Tino_, tsc, twiikuu
2
#2
2 Frags +

Awesome

Awesome
3
#3
54 Frags +

The Long Rumored Twiikuu League Is Finally Happening

The Long Rumored Twiikuu League Is Finally Happening
4
#4
33 Frags +

Lets go back to 1 map / week

Ban the cow mangler and pocket pistol

Lets go back to 1 map / week

Ban the cow mangler and pocket pistol
5
#5
142 Frags +

NaCl (North American Competitive League)

NaCl (North American Competitive League)
6
#6
-24 Frags +

Let’s hope there are no grudge insta-bans...

Show Content
For Americans, by Americans
Let’s hope there are no grudge insta-bans...

[spoiler]For Americans, by Americans[/spoiler]
7
#7
33 Frags +
jetzzzzzLets go back to 1 map / week

Ban the cow mangler and pocket pistol

i legit think id prefer the euro two maps per week. can see playing the same two maps nonstop for a week getting stale.

also can we please roll back our version of granary to whats used in EU? rocket room is dumb.

[quote=jetzzzzz]Lets go back to 1 map / week

Ban the cow mangler and pocket pistol[/quote]
i legit think id prefer the euro two maps per week. can see playing the same two maps nonstop for a week getting stale.

also can we please roll back our version of granary to whats used in EU? rocket room is dumb.
8
#8
11 Frags +

Team Fortress League

Team Fortress League
9
#9
11 Frags +

Really Good League

Really Good League
10
#10
7 Frags +

League

League
11
#11
-4 Frags +

Is this an attempt by the globalists to spread their agenda in TF2?

Is this an attempt by the globalists to spread their agenda in TF2?
12
#12
0 Frags +
twiikuu- erynn, samiface, Tino_, tsc, twiikuu

pugchamp upkeep?????????

[quote=twiikuu]
- erynn, samiface, Tino_, tsc, twiikuu[/quote]
pugchamp upkeep?????????
13
#13
10 Frags +

please please please go back to 2014 unlocks
also make playoffs not last half a fucking lifetime

please please please go back to 2014 unlocks
also make playoffs not last half a fucking lifetime
14
#14
3 Frags +

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsgu_aqsEik

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsgu_aqsEik
15
#15
-3 Frags +

cool stuff

cool stuff
16
#16
7 Frags +

Ban winger

Ban winger
17
#17
7 Frags +

Will there be a LAN though?

Will there be a LAN though?
18
#18
14 Frags +

While I'm thankful for anyone putting effort into keeping TF2 alive or even pushing it further I have some concerns about your approach.

First of all, we would like to establish a global organization to unite all of the various leagues playing competitive TF2. Previous efforts to do so (in particular, the global whitelist) have been chaotic and did not really accomplish desirable results. A more structured process would help to reach agreement and consensus as to how things should move forward. The goal would be that all stakeholders (major and minor leagues, other platforms, and players, among others) would have some representation within this org to make sure everyone's views are taken into account. We haven't finalized the details yet (including its name!), but we have many proposals under consideration.

I feel like part of the reason that for example the global whitelist was so much of a disaster is how split everyone is on the very specifics of it. There's a lot of differing on opinions especially on a small scale. With the way the TF2 community works, there's always been some who get heard louder due to popularity, sometimes justifiably so other times not. What does your idea of finding fair solutions that please most people look like? I feel like this point is worded very vague and yet incredible difficult to realize.

I guess another thing that slightly worries me is how non-organic this entire approach seems. While I see the benefits for the few of us competing internationally of unifying the scene, I'm just a bit worried that this will somewhat hinder it in the long run. Everyone's aware that it's far from easy coming to an agreement on topics (such as whitelists and formats) and I've always felt the most logical approach to fixing that issue was to provide a (supposedly) good alternative and let the playerbase decide how they feel about it in the long run. Players are naturally going to play, and keep playing, what is most fun. So why not take this as an opportunity to rethink things, come up with a new (or suitable) idea and offer more variety (on a sensible scale *cough*). I can see the some of the upsides of a universal consensus but I'm not convinced it's entirely the best approach for some specific issues.

That being said, again I appreciate everyone's effort and my concerns are purely limited to certain topics. I very much welcome more communication between leagues, as long as it doesn't force artificial standards upon everyone.

That's just my two cents, if you can shed some light on my questions I would very much appreciate it, anyways best of luck with your efforts.

While I'm thankful for anyone putting effort into keeping TF2 alive or even pushing it further I have some concerns about your approach.

[quote]First of all, we would like to establish a global organization to unite all of the various leagues playing competitive TF2. Previous efforts to do so (in particular, the global whitelist) have been chaotic and did not really accomplish desirable results. A more structured process would help to reach agreement and consensus as to how things should move forward. The goal would be that all stakeholders (major and minor leagues, other platforms, and players, among others) would have some representation within this org to make sure everyone's views are taken into account. We haven't finalized the details yet (including its name!), but we have many proposals under consideration.[/quote]

I feel like part of the reason that for example the global whitelist was so much of a disaster is how split everyone is on the very specifics of it. There's a lot of differing on opinions especially on a small scale. With the way the TF2 community works, there's always been some who get heard louder due to popularity, sometimes justifiably so other times not. What does your idea of finding fair solutions that please most people look like? I feel like this point is worded very vague and yet incredible difficult to realize.

I guess another thing that slightly worries me is how non-organic this entire approach seems. While I see the benefits for the few of us competing internationally of unifying the scene, I'm just a bit worried that this will somewhat hinder it in the long run. Everyone's aware that it's far from easy coming to an agreement on topics (such as whitelists and formats) and I've always felt the most logical approach to fixing that issue was to provide a (supposedly) good alternative and let the playerbase decide how they feel about it in the long run. Players are naturally going to play, and keep playing, what is most fun. So why not take this as an opportunity to rethink things, come up with a new (or suitable) idea and offer more variety (on a sensible scale *cough*). I can see the some of the upsides of a universal consensus but I'm not convinced it's entirely the best approach for some specific issues.

That being said, again I appreciate everyone's effort and my concerns are purely limited to certain topics. I very much welcome more communication between leagues, as long as it doesn't force artificial standards upon everyone.

That's just my two cents, if you can shed some light on my questions I would very much appreciate it, anyways best of luck with your efforts.
19
#19
13 Frags +

can u name it world wrestling federation and have stone cold steve austin be there

can u name it world wrestling federation and have stone cold steve austin be there
20
#20
0 Frags +

There should be an already decided-upon hypothetical end-goal which should be the reason behind every decision this organization makes. Before we start acting, we should know what we're trying to achieve through our actions. One of the biggest issues with the global whitelist was that there was no single reason why weapons were being banned/unbanned, but rather, it was the case that weapon A got unbanned for reasons X, whilst weapon B got unbanned for reasons Y. These different reasons where the result of conflicting ideas about what the end-goal of making the global whitelist was. This problem could easily apply to any other kind of decisions when it comes to rulesets or map pool or whatever.

If we decide on what we're trying to work towards before we start working towards it, our decisions will be more consistent. It is important to see that all decisions being made by the organization are done for the sake of the end-goal, and that reasons are given as to why the organization believes an action will help bring compTF2 to that end-goal.

Basically, a mission statement is imperative.

There should be an already decided-upon hypothetical end-goal which should be the reason behind every decision this organization makes. Before we start acting, we should know what we're trying to achieve through our actions. One of the biggest issues with the global whitelist was that there was no single reason why weapons were being banned/unbanned, but rather, it was the case that weapon A got unbanned for reasons X, whilst weapon B got unbanned for reasons Y. These different reasons where the result of conflicting ideas about what the end-goal of making the global whitelist was. This problem could easily apply to any other kind of decisions when it comes to rulesets or map pool or whatever.

If we decide on what we're trying to work towards before we start working towards it, our decisions will be more consistent. It is important to see that all decisions being made by the organization are done for the sake of the end-goal, and that reasons are given as to why the organization believes an action will help bring compTF2 to that end-goal.

Basically, a mission statement is imperative.
21
#21
-2 Frags +

lets do weapon pick and bans like they do for heros in dota 2

lets do weapon pick and bans like they do for heros in dota 2
22
#22
-42 Frags +

as you're into it,
- put a real map variety in terms of mod and style (exclude ctf, just in case people think it could be viable).
- do a real COMPETITIVE whitelist, don't ban things for the sake of being boring to play against (Make Pyro Great Again), and ban things that just makes other classes weapons not suitable. If needed i can make a list. (edit : don't need a word i just made it : https://whitelist.tf/9935)
- give space to a larger amount of people having all sort of ideas, not a popularity-based recruitement, almost creating political groups in order to represent this larger amount of players. In order to take decisions on format, maps... Or even give a referendum.
- This idea is crossing my mind, but what you should do to simplify this league is to have only 6vs6 mod, this can be discussed as people would see this as a threat for highlander/ 4vs4...

I insist also about having top players involved in transparency in making this league because "- erynn, samiface, Tino_, tsc, twiikuu" as much as i love your commitment to this game, you guys are not the most competitive players to decide questions about rules format and so on. but don't get me wrong you guys are fully capable to run a proper league, just get help from competitive players.

as you're into it,
- put a real map variety in terms of mod and style (exclude ctf, just in case people think it could be viable).
- do a real COMPETITIVE whitelist, don't ban things for the sake of being boring to play against (Make Pyro Great Again), and ban things that just makes other classes weapons not suitable. If needed i can make a list. (edit : don't need a word i just made it : https://whitelist.tf/9935)
- give space to a larger amount of people having all sort of ideas, not a popularity-based recruitement, almost creating political groups in order to represent this larger amount of players. In order to take decisions on format, maps... Or even give a referendum.
- This idea is crossing my mind, but what you should do to simplify this league is to have only 6vs6 mod, this can be discussed as people would see this as a threat for highlander/ 4vs4...

I insist also about having top players involved in transparency in making this league because "- erynn, samiface, Tino_, tsc, twiikuu" as much as i love your commitment to this game, you guys are not the most competitive players to decide questions about rules format and so on. but don't get me wrong you guys are fully capable to run a proper league, just get help from competitive players.
23
#23
CappingTV
33 Frags +

Hi, there is already a global organisation of the current leagues in NA, we're actually having our meeting to discuss these issues tonight.

UGC, RGL, TFCL, ESL, ESEA and ETF2L will be attending and we hope to provide some information to people soon.

Edit: TFTV's new league is also in attendance.

Hi, there is already a global organisation of the current leagues in NA, we're actually having our meeting to discuss these issues tonight.

UGC, RGL, TFCL, ESL, ESEA and ETF2L will be attending and we hope to provide some information to people soon.

Edit: TFTV's new league is also in attendance.
24
#24
6 Frags +

I trust twickoo

I trust twickoo
25
#25
32 Frags +
DuMmTmI trust twickoo

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/105352550957481984/305753811316899842/153988.1484008784.png

[quote=DuMmTm]I trust twickoo[/quote]

[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/105352550957481984/305753811316899842/153988.1484008784.png[/img]
26
#26
16 Frags +
Mitch_Hi, there is already a global organisation of the current leagues in NA, we're actually having our meeting to discuss these issues tonight.

UGC, RGL, TFCL, ESL, ESEA and ETF2L will be attending and we hope to provide some information to people soon.

Is this being streamed or just in secret? Also is it pretty much orgs attending the meeting, or players as well?

[quote=Mitch_]Hi, there is already a global organisation of the current leagues in NA, we're actually having our meeting to discuss these issues tonight.

UGC, RGL, TFCL, ESL, ESEA and ETF2L will be attending and we hope to provide some information to people soon.[/quote]
Is this being streamed or just in secret? Also is it pretty much orgs attending the meeting, or players as well?
27
#27
CappingTV
2 Frags +
DiscordMitch_Hi, there is already a global organisation of the current leagues in NA, we're actually having our meeting to discuss these issues tonight.

UGC, RGL, TFCL, ESL, ESEA and ETF2L will be attending and we hope to provide some information to people soon.
Is this being streamed or just in secret? Also is it pretty much orgs attending the meeting, or players as well?

At the moment this meeting will be private, there are many sensitive (unconfirmed) topics we're discussing. But we hope to make a thread announcing the results of the meeting and a poll collecting some data from players.

[quote=Discord][quote=Mitch_]Hi, there is already a global organisation of the current leagues in NA, we're actually having our meeting to discuss these issues tonight.

UGC, RGL, TFCL, ESL, ESEA and ETF2L will be attending and we hope to provide some information to people soon.[/quote]
Is this being streamed or just in secret? Also is it pretty much orgs attending the meeting, or players as well?[/quote]

At the moment this meeting will be private, there are many sensitive (unconfirmed) topics we're discussing. But we hope to make a thread announcing the results of the meeting and a poll collecting some data from players.
28
#28
-3 Frags +
twikuuAll ESEA players would be able to migrate to this new league, which would offer distinct advantages thanks to being a community-ran league.

So what's the point when there is UGC already?
Will you provide LAN playoffs?
What do you have against RGL or UGC taking over as the default NA league to justify starting a new league?

[quote=twikuu]All ESEA players would be able to migrate to this new league, which would offer distinct advantages thanks to being a community-ran league.[/quote]
So what's the point when there is UGC already?
Will you provide LAN playoffs?
What do you have against RGL or UGC taking over as the default NA league to justify starting a new league?
29
#29
7 Frags +
Mitch_
At the moment this meeting will be private, there are many sensitive (unconfirmed) topics we're discussing. But we hope to make a thread announcing the results of the meeting and a poll collecting some data from players.

Could you specify who you guys have invited to attend, just admins of leagues or also players?

[quote=Mitch_]

At the moment this meeting will be private, there are many sensitive (unconfirmed) topics we're discussing. But we hope to make a thread announcing the results of the meeting and a poll collecting some data from players.[/quote]
Could you specify who you guys have invited to attend, just admins of leagues or also players?
30
#30
ozfortress
33 Frags +
DiscordCould you specify who you guys have invited to attend, just admins of leagues or also players?

Well by Mitch's own admission, ozfortress aren't invited to the cool kids table for this meeting when ETF2L are :(

[quote=Discord]
Could you specify who you guys have invited to attend, just admins of leagues or also players?[/quote]

Well by Mitch's own admission, ozfortress aren't invited to the cool kids table for this meeting when ETF2L are :(
1 2 3
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