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TF2 update for 8/21/20
91
#91
5 Frags +
zodaicThanks moron, i now delete mastercomfig because u finally ruined 0 lerp. It wasn't even an abuse yet for some reason ur dumbass decided to change something that didnt even need a change. Instead of fixing crappy pyro u proceed on doing something that made tons of players quit. Imbicile

you're not even a jumper, just some spy youtuber with a vac ban on his main account LMAO
shut the fuck up, get good without using exploits

[quote=zodaic]Thanks moron, i now delete mastercomfig because u finally ruined 0 lerp. It wasn't even an abuse yet for some reason ur dumbass decided to change something that didnt even need a change. Instead of fixing crappy pyro u proceed on doing something that made tons of players quit. Imbicile[/quote]

you're not even a jumper, just some spy youtuber with a vac ban on his main account LMAO
shut the fuck up, get good without using exploits
92
#92
19 Frags +

oh no how can i now see my stickies jumping with 3rd person on :D

oh no how can i now see my stickies jumping with 3rd person on :D
93
#93
-3 Frags +

im mad, thread bad
but look guys we got an update!

im mad, thread bad
but look guys we got an update!
94
#94
17 Frags +
mastercoms

i appreciate the work you do for this game and community, it's unmatched. thank you. regardless of any logical arguments going on and who's right or wrong or whatever, i jus wanna let you know that there are so many people in this community grateful for what are probably countless hours of work put in for everyone

yeah, i'm sucking up a little. now i just kinda want to comment on this website. these are my words and my words alone:

i feel like there has never been a thread about a remotely serious topic without a lot of immature and often insulting banter. sorry to be the guy who says "i'm disappointed in this community" or whatever, but even though the insults in this thread were miles below what i've seen on this site, having it directed, even so briefly or scattered, vehemently at someone i have nothing but respect for, and for what, a general logical misunderstanding? it's just not the way to act toward people

i wish those who say stuff like that would realize that they are not contributing to humanity when they attempt to maliciously belittle others, despite how much of a joke they are taking it as. there is a time and place for that kind of talk

aight back to not visiting this site like usual

[quote=mastercoms][/quote]

i appreciate the work you do for this game and community, it's unmatched. thank you. regardless of any logical arguments going on and who's right or wrong or whatever, i jus wanna let you know that there are so many people in this community grateful for what are probably countless hours of work put in for everyone

yeah, i'm sucking up a little. now i just kinda want to comment on this website. these are my words and my words alone:

i feel like there has never been a thread about a remotely serious topic without a lot of immature and often insulting banter. sorry to be the guy who says "i'm disappointed in this community" or whatever, but even though the insults in this thread were miles below what i've seen on this site, having it directed, even so briefly or scattered, vehemently at someone i have nothing but respect for, and for what, a general logical misunderstanding? it's just not the way to act toward people

i wish those who say stuff like that would realize that they are not contributing to humanity when they attempt to maliciously belittle others, despite how much of a joke they are taking it as. there is a time and place for that kind of talk

aight back to not visiting this site like usual
95
#95
-28 Frags +

whys nobody posted the scout sfm version of the fridge gif yet

whys nobody posted the scout sfm version of the fridge gif yet
96
#96
6 Frags +
HypnotizeThespikedballofdoomtwiikuu- Fixed the chat window not always being restored to the appropriate place

This forces default position for chat, some custom HUDs move it, practically cant do that anymore

Not sure how 7hud did it but the chat box seems to be in an unusual spot, so it should still be doable

Yes it's possible, in fact the update didn't really add anything new, its just that now the default chat positioning seems to be taken direcly from the animation while before it was taken from BaseChat.res
As long as the hud has the LowerChatWindow and RestoreChatWindow animations set up correclty the chat should stick to the custom assigned postion

Yeah, this works. I'm using an old hud that doesn't even have those animations, so I just put the empty lines from 7hud at the bottom of my hudanimations_tf

event CompetitiveGame_LowerChatWindow
{
}

event CompetitiveGame_RestoreChatWindow
{
}

event HudTournament_MoveChatWindow
{
}
[quote=Hypnotize][quote=Thespikedballofdoom][quote=twiikuu]- Fixed the chat window not always being restored to the appropriate place

This forces default position for chat, some custom HUDs move it, practically cant do that anymore[/quote]

Not sure how [url=https://www.teamfortress.tv/12745/7hud/?page=11#313]7hud[/url] did it but the chat box seems to be in an unusual spot, so it should still be doable[/quote]

Yes it's possible, in fact the update didn't really add anything new, its just that now the default chat positioning seems to be taken direcly from the [url=https://github.com/Hypnootize/TF2-Default-Hud/blob/master/scripts/hudanimations_tf.txt#L1419]animation[/url] while before it was taken from BaseChat.res
As long as the hud has the LowerChatWindow and RestoreChatWindow animations set up correclty the chat should stick to the custom assigned postion[/quote]

Yeah, this works. I'm using an old hud that doesn't even have those animations, so I just put the empty lines from 7hud at the bottom of my hudanimations_tf

[code]
event CompetitiveGame_LowerChatWindow
{
}

event CompetitiveGame_RestoreChatWindow
{
}

event HudTournament_MoveChatWindow
{
}[/code]
97
#97
-5 Frags +

hi mama

hi mama
98
#98
-5 Frags +
donghi mama

hi

[quote=dong]hi mama[/quote]
hi
99
#99
3 Frags +
ReeroThe issue I had with the post #61 is that you instantly chalked up the trick to "placebo" or hearsay (specifically mentioning in regards to jumping) without properly accounting for all the variables yourself. You, as acting as an authority on the game's workings, made a very confident statement and used insufficient evidence to backup your claim, as Waldo's video 100% refuted it.

I think there's a few misunderstandings here. So the initial claim that I was disputing was that the 0 lerp exploit lowered ping:

KaptainCould you explain why it's bad to give the option to players (for projectile clases mainly) to change their settings such that their ping effectively feels lower (i.e. just using lower interp)Reeroit essentially just makes it feel closest to offline jumping.WaldoThe higher your ping, the more projectiles appear behind where they actually are. For soldier, this is mostly something that you can get used to providing that your ping is stable. For demo, it's a massive difference since 5 ping -> 30 ping is enough to make it so you don't see stickies when airpogoing at all, which makes it ridiculously harder.

For the purpose of seeing projectiles accurately, lerp is essentially additional latency, so 0 lerp helps a lot.
Kaptainotherwise it just results in it looking like your ping is lower (I understand it isn't, but it simply looks nicer)?Reerotheres a difference between relying on something and the annoyance that is having to deal with an unnecessary change that essentially increases your ping. Like yeah you can pull the "Chad If You Cant Handle 50 Ping You Are Bad" but you cant deny that ping can make a big difference in performance/enjoy-ability.

As shown by my two videos, this is not the case. This is what I was addressing when I said "it was either placebo or parroted from someone else". There is no difference in projectile delay. Waldo's video does nothing to refute the original point (as you say 100%). It only proved that you could see your stickies while moving fast. So now the whole discussion is about how you can see your stickies while moving fast, still inferring that there is somehow a difference in projectile delay while moving. Honestly, that doesn't make sense to me. If projectiles are spawning at the same position and delay on either setting, that means something else must be different. That means the only way you could see your stickies with projectiles being the same (as proven by my video) is if you yourself were behind.

So ironically, that high update rate exploit is behind normal values because of how the game handles extremely low interp values, so you could be a few frames behind, depending on your frame rate.

[quote=Reero]The issue I had with the post #61 is that you instantly chalked up the trick to "placebo" or hearsay (specifically mentioning in regards to jumping) without properly accounting for all the variables yourself. You, as acting as an authority on the game's workings, made a very confident statement and used insufficient evidence to backup your claim, as Waldo's video 100% refuted it.[/quote]

I think there's a few misunderstandings here. So the initial claim that I was disputing was that the 0 lerp exploit lowered ping:

[quote=Kaptain]Could you explain why it's bad to give the option to players (for projectile clases mainly) to change their settings such that their ping effectively feels lower (i.e. just using lower interp)[/quote]

[quote=Reero]it essentially just makes it feel closest to offline jumping.[/quote]

[quote=Waldo]The higher your ping, the more projectiles appear behind where they actually are. For soldier, this is mostly something that you can get used to providing that your ping is stable. For demo, it's a massive difference since 5 ping -> 30 ping is enough to make it so you don't see stickies when airpogoing at all, which makes it ridiculously harder.

For the purpose of seeing projectiles accurately, lerp is essentially additional latency, so 0 lerp helps a lot.[/quote]

[quote=Kaptain]otherwise it just results in it looking like your ping is lower (I understand it isn't, but it simply looks nicer)?[/quote]

[quote=Reero]theres a difference between relying on something and the annoyance that is having to deal with an unnecessary change that essentially increases your ping. Like yeah you can pull the "Chad If You Cant Handle 50 Ping You Are Bad" but you cant deny that ping can make a big difference in performance/enjoy-ability.[/quote]

As shown by my two videos, this is not the case. This is what I was addressing when I said "it was either placebo or parroted from someone else". There is no difference in projectile delay. Waldo's video does nothing to refute the original point (as you say 100%). It only proved that you could see your stickies while moving fast. So now the whole discussion is about how you can see your stickies while moving fast, still inferring that there is somehow a difference in projectile delay while moving. Honestly, that doesn't make sense to me. If projectiles are spawning at the same position and delay on either setting, that means something else must be different. That means the only way you could see your stickies with projectiles being the same (as proven by my video) is if you yourself were behind.

So ironically, that high update rate exploit is behind normal values because of how the game handles extremely low interp values, so you could be a few frames behind, depending on your frame rate.
100
#100
5 Frags +
mastercomsThat means the only way you could see your stickies with projectiles being the same (as proven by my video) is if you yourself were behind.

So ironically, that high update rate exploit is behind normal values because of how the game handles extremely low interp values, so you could be a few frames behind, depending on your frame rate.

If there is a way to validate this claim that would be interesting because the visual applications of this exploit in jump have definitely improved performance with airpogo and speedpogo on a lot of demojumpers more than the potential frame lag has decreased.

I would also not chalk it up to placebo because there is definitely a conscious element to it considering when you can see your stickies you have an easier time jumping and airpogoing with them

[quote=mastercoms]That means the only way you could see your stickies with projectiles being the same (as proven by my video) is if you yourself were behind.

So ironically, that high update rate exploit is behind normal values because of how the game handles extremely low interp values, so you could be a few frames behind, depending on your frame rate.[/quote]
If there is a way to validate this claim that would be interesting because the visual applications of this exploit in jump have definitely improved performance with airpogo and speedpogo on a lot of demojumpers more than the potential frame lag has decreased.

I would also not chalk it up to placebo because there is definitely a conscious element to it considering when you can see your stickies you have an easier time jumping and airpogoing with them
101
#101
5 Frags +
ReeroIf there is a way to validate this claim that would be interesting because the visual applications of this exploit in jump have definitely improved performance with airpogo and speedpogo on a lot of demojumpers more than the potential frame lag has decreased.

I would also not chalk it up to placebo because there is definitely a conscious element to it considering when you can see my stickies you have an easier time jumping and airpogoing with them

I'm not saying the visuals are placebo, obviously they are not because they can be recorded and shown. But I am just saying that the assumption that it is a reduction in ping that causes that may be placebo, because the projectiles spawn at the same time when recording it.

[quote=Reero]If there is a way to validate this claim that would be interesting because the visual applications of this exploit in jump have definitely improved performance with airpogo and speedpogo on a lot of demojumpers more than the potential frame lag has decreased.

I would also not chalk it up to placebo because there is definitely a conscious element to it considering when you can see my stickies you have an easier time jumping and airpogoing with them[/quote]

I'm not saying the visuals are placebo, obviously they are not because they can be recorded and shown. But I am just saying that the assumption that it is a reduction in ping that causes that may be placebo, because the projectiles spawn at the same time when recording it.
102
#102
18 Frags +
ReeromastercomsThat means the only way you could see your stickies with projectiles being the same (as proven by my video) is if you yourself were behind.

So ironically, that high update rate exploit is behind normal values because of how the game handles extremely low interp values, so you could be a few frames behind, depending on your frame rate.
If there is a way to validate this claim that would be interesting because the visual applications of this exploit in jump have definitely improved performance with airpogo and speedpogo on a lot of demojumpers more than the potential frame lag has decreased.

I would also not chalk it up to placebo because there is definitely a conscious element to it considering when you can see your stickies you have an easier time jumping and airpogoing with them

I mean, given mastercoms' and waldo's testcases, I think the logical conclusion to make is:
- projectiles by themselves are not different with 0 interp
- projectiles appear ahead of you in 0 interp but behind you with normal interp
- in normal interp, you don't appear ahead of where you actually are serverside
- logically, in 0 interp you are visually behind where you actually are serverside

There may be some further testcases that can shed more light on this or expose any currently unknown effects (and you are free to figure out those testcases) but this seems pretty convincing to me. If normal interp is always about the same or maybe a bit behind your serverside position, and 0 interp is even further behind than that, it stands to reason that 0 interp is actually unintuitively worse than normal.

There seems to be a culprit in the code that causes this behavior as well:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/439606056457338881/747073822519459870/unknown.png

(if your interp is too low, then this expression won't evaluate and your movement will be a tick behind -- credit to mastercoms)

As far as the current understanding of the game is, the exploit doesn't help or is actually worse for all the reasons given in this thread so far (ping, accurate player positions, etc). If you find that's easier for you then alright, but it seems to be because your position is slightly behind where it actually is, and regular 15.2 interp is the closest you'll get to your actual position. Using a higher interp might be able to get you the same delay you've grown accustomed to.

In exchange for not having these settings available, the patched exploit means that cheaters don't have as much room to abuse backtracking. And I get why some people don't like that the settings they're used to are suddenly not possible, it does suck. But as someone who made mods that got patched because they relied on exploitable methods (old clean tf2, because someone released a wallhack on gamebanana that used the same technique), it happens and you'll live -- something like this is overall an improvement.

[quote=Reero][quote=mastercoms]That means the only way you could see your stickies with projectiles being the same (as proven by my video) is if you yourself were behind.

So ironically, that high update rate exploit is behind normal values because of how the game handles extremely low interp values, so you could be a few frames behind, depending on your frame rate.[/quote]
If there is a way to validate this claim that would be interesting because the visual applications of this exploit in jump have definitely improved performance with airpogo and speedpogo on a lot of demojumpers more than the potential frame lag has decreased.

I would also not chalk it up to placebo because there is definitely a conscious element to it considering when you can see your stickies you have an easier time jumping and airpogoing with them[/quote]
I mean, given mastercoms' and waldo's testcases, I think the logical conclusion to make is:
- projectiles by themselves are not different with 0 interp
- projectiles appear ahead of you in 0 interp but behind you with normal interp
- in normal interp, you don't appear ahead of where you actually are serverside
- logically, in 0 interp you are visually behind where you actually are serverside

There may be some further testcases that can shed more light on this or expose any currently unknown effects (and you are free to figure out those testcases) but this seems pretty convincing to me. If normal interp is always about the same or maybe a bit behind your serverside position, and 0 interp is even further behind than that, it stands to reason that 0 interp is actually unintuitively worse than normal.

There seems to be a culprit in the code that causes this behavior as well:
[img]https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/439606056457338881/747073822519459870/unknown.png[/img] (if your interp is too low, then this expression won't evaluate and your movement will be a tick behind -- credit to mastercoms)

As far as the current understanding of the game is, the exploit doesn't help or is actually [i]worse[/i] for all the reasons given in this thread so far (ping, accurate player positions, etc). If you find that's easier for you then alright, but it seems to be because your position is slightly behind where it actually is, and regular 15.2 interp is the closest you'll get to your actual position. Using a higher interp might be able to get you the same delay you've grown accustomed to.

In exchange for not having these settings available, the patched exploit means that cheaters don't have as much room to abuse backtracking. And I get why some people don't like that the settings they're used to are suddenly not possible, it does suck. But as someone who made mods that got patched because they relied on exploitable methods (old clean tf2, because someone released a wallhack on gamebanana that used the same technique), it happens and you'll live -- something like this is overall an improvement.
103
#103
-46 Frags +

yo mastercoms suck my long dick

yo mastercoms suck my long dick
104
#104
15 Frags +

https://imgur.com/QKascaW

Bruhh imagine your sole personality being to shit on someone you don't even know for no valid reason.

You're a fuckin irrelevant, VAC banned, spy main....lmao

[img]https://imgur.com/QKascaW[/img]

Bruhh imagine your sole personality being to shit on someone you don't even know for no valid reason.

You're a fuckin irrelevant, VAC banned, spy main....lmao
105
#105
10 Frags +
flyingbuddyhttps://imgur.com/QKascaW

Bruhh imagine your sole personality being to shit on someone you don't even know for no valid reason.

You're a fuckin irrelevant, VAC banned, spy main....lmao

Don't even bother
https://clips.twitch.tv/SpicyQuaintRaisinBudBlast
Ait, zodaic deleted the vod. Guy's got the tiniest wiener in the universe prolly.

[quote=flyingbuddy][img]https://imgur.com/QKascaW[/img]

Bruhh imagine your sole personality being to shit on someone you don't even know for no valid reason.

You're a fuckin irrelevant, VAC banned, spy main....lmao[/quote]
Don't even bother
https://clips.twitch.tv/SpicyQuaintRaisinBudBlast
Ait, zodaic deleted the vod. Guy's got the tiniest wiener in the universe prolly.
106
#106
0 Frags +

what the fuck happened in this thread

what the fuck happened in this thread
107
#107
-3 Frags +

i love mastercoms <3

i love mastercoms <3
108
#108
-6 Frags +
flyingwhat the fuck happened in this thread

Local Spy Main Tries To Debunk Scientific Community ( GONE WRONG THEN SEXUAL )

[quote=flying]what the fuck happened in this thread[/quote]
Local Spy Main Tries To Debunk Scientific Community ( GONE WRONG THEN SEXUAL )
109
#109
0 Frags +

so does this mean spy mains cant use 300 ping and basically cheat.

so does this mean spy mains cant use 300 ping and basically cheat.
110
#110
5 Frags +
maxc232so does this mean spy mains cant use 300 ping and basically cheat.

no, thats interp abuse, pretty sure you can still pull that off.

[quote=maxc232]so does this mean spy mains cant use 300 ping and basically cheat.[/quote]

no, thats interp abuse, pretty sure you can still pull that off.
111
#111
1 Frags +

thats too bad, either way this spy main was mad about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge1okRDNk6g Im just glad if any less bs stabs go through. rip mastercoms we all remember how the spy mains reacted to valve for nerfing dead ringer and ambassador

thats too bad, either way this spy main was mad about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge1okRDNk6g Im just glad if any less bs stabs go through. rip mastercoms we all remember how the spy mains reacted to valve for nerfing dead ringer and ambassador
112
#112
5 Frags +

Sorry if I missed a discussion on this already, but did this update do anything with automatically changing your interp/lerp? Whenever I'm playing now, if I'm on scout it automatically changes me to ~.030 interp and if I switch to soldier, it changes my interp back to 0.0152. I don't ever remember this happening before and can't find anything in my config that would be doing it, but maybe I'm missing something or maybe this used to happen to me all of the time and I just don't remember.

I know people used to say interp around .033 for scout was optimal - is that still the case? What is the optimal for hitscan and projectile?

EDIT: My game is actually switching my interp to 0.0152 for every hitscan class I play, and 0.03030 for all projectile classes. I literally can't find anything in the config doing this. Other friends with the same rates are not seeing the same thing.

Sorry if I missed a discussion on this already, but did this update do anything with automatically changing your interp/lerp? Whenever I'm playing now, if I'm on scout it automatically changes me to ~.030 interp and if I switch to soldier, it changes my interp back to 0.0152. I don't ever remember this happening before and can't find anything in my config that would be doing it, but maybe I'm missing something or maybe this used to happen to me all of the time and I just don't remember.

I know people used to say interp around .033 for scout was optimal - is that still the case? What is the optimal for hitscan and projectile?

EDIT: My game is actually switching my interp to 0.0152 for every hitscan class I play, and 0.03030 for all projectile classes. I literally can't find anything in the config doing this. Other friends with the same rates are not seeing the same thing.
113
#113
-13 Frags +

឵឵឵឵឵឵឵឵឵឵឵឵឵឵

឵឵឵឵឵឵឵឵឵឵឵឵឵឵
114
#114
1 Frags +
Vizardlmao fuck this community, gets rid of 0 interp but not 5, truly productive. get rid of the one that was never a problem but not the one that lets you backstab from the international space station

0.5 is a stupidly high max value for cl_interp, but i feel like if you get stabbed by a spy with over 500 ms of reaction time you probably deserve it

[quote=Vizard]lmao fuck this community, gets rid of 0 interp but not 5, truly productive. get rid of the one that was never a problem but not the one that lets you backstab from the international space station[/quote]
0.5 is a stupidly high max value for cl_interp, but i feel like if you get stabbed by a spy with over 500 ms of reaction time you probably deserve it
115
#115
0 Frags +
gecks
I know people used to say interp around .033 for scout was optimal - is that still the case? What is the optimal for hitscan and projectile?

EDIT: My game is actually switching my interp to 0.0152 for every hitscan class I play, and 0.03030 for all projectile classes. I literally can't find anything in the config doing this. Other friends with the same rates are not seeing the same thing.

0.0303 is actually the most recommended interp value for hitscan (there was a misunderstanding way back when interp values first started be thrown around) and 0.0152 for projectiles.

0.0303 is what you get with cl_interp_ratio 2 and cl_interp 0, same for projectiles but with cl_interp_ratio 1).

Not sure what causes the reverse of interps but an easy fix, I would think, is to put the desired interp values in each individual class cfgs.

[quote=gecks]

I know people used to say interp around .033 for scout was optimal - is that still the case? What is the optimal for hitscan and projectile?

EDIT: My game is actually switching my interp to 0.0152 for every hitscan class I play, and 0.03030 for all projectile classes. I literally can't find anything in the config doing this. Other friends with the same rates are not seeing the same thing.[/quote]

0.0303 is actually the most recommended interp value for hitscan (there was a misunderstanding way back when interp values first started be thrown around) and 0.0152 for projectiles.

0.0303 is what you get with cl_interp_ratio 2 and cl_interp 0, same for projectiles but with cl_interp_ratio 1).

Not sure what causes the reverse of interps but an easy fix, I would think, is to put the desired interp values in each individual class cfgs.
116
#116
6 Frags +
Jane0.5 is a stupidly high max value for cl_interp, but i feel like if you get stabbed by a spy with over 500 ms of reaction time you probably deserve it

500 interp spy literally backstabs you when you see him right in front of you, not deserved

[quote=Jane]0.5 is a stupidly high max value for cl_interp, but i feel like if you get stabbed by a spy with over 500 ms of reaction time you probably deserve it[/quote]
500 interp spy literally backstabs you when you see him right in front of you, not deserved
117
#117
-5 Frags +
Rockz500 interp spy literally backstabs you when you see him right in front of you, not deserved

that only works while both of you are backpedaling in the same direction while they're in front of you at close range
ik it's dumb but it's the most avoidable scenario ever

[quote=Rockz]500 interp spy literally backstabs you when you see him right in front of you, not deserved[/quote]
that only works while both of you are backpedaling in the same direction while they're in front of you at close range
ik it's dumb but it's the most avoidable scenario ever
118
#118
0 Frags +
Vizardlmao fuck this community, gets rid of 0 interp but not 5, truly productive. get rid of the one that was never a problem but not the one that lets you backstab from the international space station

it didnt change interp.

[quote=Vizard]lmao fuck this community, gets rid of 0 interp but not 5, truly productive. get rid of the one that was never a problem but not the one that lets you backstab from the international space station[/quote]

it didnt change interp.
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