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Global Whitelist January Update
1
#1
ETF2L
0 Frags +

Hello everyone,

Yes, we’re still here!
Although there haven’t been any real changes to weapons this past year, we’re still trying to optimise the whitelist ever so slightly. This time around, we’ll be doing away with weapons that are generally disliked due to various reasons.

The weapons that will be banned are:

Scorch Shot & Detonator

After last year’s Jungle Inferno update, afterburn damage was increased to compensate for the reduced afterburn time of flamethrowers. This meant that the Scorch Shot and Detonator received buffs without the introduction of any downsides.
With their increased AOE damage, extreme spammability, ability to remove stickies and afterburn’s effect on healing rates, we feel these weapons are now out of place and will be banned as a result.

Future

Moving forward with the global whitelist, we’ll be aiming to smooth out the process in a way that allows for updates more frequently.
This will take the form of either cutting down on weapons that become obviously unsuitable for 6v6, or allowing weapons to be used only after thorough testing and discussion.

-Your Global League Administrators

Thank you to Joe for proofreading.

Hello everyone,

Yes, we’re still here!
Although there haven’t been any real changes to weapons this past year, we’re still trying to optimise the whitelist ever so slightly. This time around, we’ll be doing away with weapons that are generally disliked due to various reasons.

The weapons that will be [b]banned[/b] are:

[h]Scorch Shot & Detonator[/h]

After last year’s Jungle Inferno update, afterburn damage was increased to compensate for the reduced afterburn time of flamethrowers. This meant that the Scorch Shot and Detonator received buffs without the introduction of any downsides.
With their increased AOE damage, extreme spammability, ability to remove stickies and afterburn’s effect on healing rates, we feel these weapons are now out of place and will be banned as a result.

[h]Future[/h]

Moving forward with the global whitelist, we’ll be aiming to smooth out the process in a way that allows for updates more frequently.
This will take the form of either cutting down on weapons that become obviously unsuitable for 6v6, or allowing weapons to be used only after thorough testing and discussion.

-Your Global League Administrators

Thank you to Joe for proofreading.
2
#2
11 Frags +

I'm happy with the changes and the transparency with this revision, however is it fair to call it a global whitelist anymore since ESEA seem to have taken a different route with their whitelis?

I'm happy with the changes and the transparency with this revision, however is it fair to call it a global whitelist anymore since ESEA seem to have taken a different route with their whitelis?
3
#3
ETF2L
60 Frags +
SnackI'm happy with the changes and the transparency with this revision, however is it fair to call it a global whitelist anymore since ESEA seem to have taken a different route with their whitelis?

The Global Whitelist™₍ₘᵢₙᵤₛ ₑₛₑₐ₎

[quote=Snack]I'm happy with the changes and the transparency with this revision, however is it fair to call it a global whitelist anymore since ESEA seem to have taken a different route with their whitelis?[/quote]

The Global Whitelist™₍ₘᵢₙᵤₛ ₑₛₑₐ₎
4
#4
17 Frags +
SnackI'm happy with the changes and the transparency with this revision, however is it fair to call it a global whitelist anymore since ESEA seem to have taken a different route with their whitelis?

Easier than saying "ETF2L, AsiaFortress, Ozfortress, UGC and [insert south american league name here] Whitelist"
It's literally only ESEA that uses their own whitelist, every other league uses this whitelist.

[quote=Snack]I'm happy with the changes and the transparency with this revision, however is it fair to call it a global whitelist anymore since ESEA seem to have taken a different route with their whitelis?[/quote]
Easier than saying "ETF2L, AsiaFortress, Ozfortress, UGC and [insert south american league name here] Whitelist"
It's literally only ESEA that uses their own whitelist, every other league uses this whitelist.
5
#5
whitelist.tf
15 Frags +

I will update the 'Global whitelist' preset with this one when UGC/OZF/AF have confirmed this to me as well, I doubt ESEA is going to come around and also use this one for S30

I will update the 'Global whitelist' preset with this one when UGC/OZF/AF have confirmed this to me as well, I doubt ESEA is going to come around and also use this one for S30
6
#6
25 Frags +

Now this is epic a really nice change thank you admins

Now this is [s]epic[/s] a really nice change thank you admins
7
#7
52 Frags +

Olgha on suicide watch

Olgha on suicide watch
8
#8
45 Frags +

Nice to see that the rest of the world knows how to properly play 6s

Nice to see that the rest of the world knows how to properly play 6s
9
#9
65 Frags +

incoming b4nny tweet calling out ETF2L and co for being anti-progress

incoming b4nny tweet calling out ETF2L and co for being anti-progress
10
#10
8 Frags +

thanks to joe for proof reading

thanks to joe for proof reading
11
#11
3 Frags +

cheers joe

cheers joe
12
#12
15 Frags +

FUCK BANNY

FUCK BANNY
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#13
-12 Frags +

the flare guns were not overpowered at all, stupid ban

edit: ive literally never heard anyone in na complain about flare guns

the flare guns were not overpowered at all, stupid ban

edit: ive literally never heard anyone in na complain about flare guns
14
#14
-18 Frags +

Wasn't the point of the Global Whitelist, from the very start, to only ban weapons that are actually considered overpowered (in a way that's actually objective) or mechanically broken/bugged?

This is going against part of what the Global Whitelist was made to do. To specifically avoid banning weapons for very obscure and subjective reasons, and to follow a set ruling when it came to what weapons were banned. You have now broken the following criteria that you set in 2016:

The broad criteria for banning weapons were: Is this weapon so overpowered that it would subvert the idea of competitive play within a team?; Does the weapon’s concept strongly undermine skill-based play?; Does this weapon have a bug which would be detrimental to play?; And lastly, does this weapon dramatically change the concept of how 6v6, or a particular class, has been played for past years?

In terms of the flare guns, the answer is no, no, no and no. Therefore these weapons should not be banned.

What does "unsuitable for 6v6" even mean, and how many people actually agree with that definition? If we continue with the logic set here, soon we'll be making increasingly questionable and controversial bans.

Wasn't the point of the Global Whitelist, from the very start, to only ban weapons that are actually considered overpowered (in a way that's actually objective) or mechanically broken/bugged?

This is going against part of what the Global Whitelist was made to do. To specifically avoid banning weapons for very obscure and subjective reasons, and to follow a set ruling when it came to what weapons were banned. You have now broken the following criteria that you set in 2016:

[quote]The broad criteria for banning weapons were: Is this weapon so overpowered that it would subvert the idea of competitive play within a team?; Does the weapon’s concept strongly undermine skill-based play?; Does this weapon have a bug which would be detrimental to play?; And lastly, does this weapon dramatically change the concept of how 6v6, or a particular class, has been played for past years? [/quote]

In terms of the flare guns, the answer is no, no, no and no. Therefore these weapons should not be banned.

What does "unsuitable for 6v6" even mean, and how many people actually agree with that definition? If we continue with the logic set here, soon we'll be making increasingly questionable and controversial bans.
15
#15
2 Frags +

joe is the real hero here

joe is the real hero here
16
#16
1 Frags +

Meanwhile the iron bomber is an upgrade in every aspect but still unbanned

Meanwhile the iron bomber is an upgrade in every aspect but still unbanned
17
#17
7 Frags +

mantreads should be unbanned since the glitch apparently got silent patched by valve according to this reddit post
I tried searching for more info on the gunboats/mantreads stacking glitch but couldn't even find out how to do it.

mantreads should be unbanned since the glitch apparently got silent patched by valve according to this [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/7y7ybj/was_the_mantreads_bug_why_it_is_banned_on_the/]reddit post[/url]
I tried searching for more info on the gunboats/mantreads stacking glitch but couldn't even find out how to do it.
18
#18
0 Frags +

Sigh, spamming scorch shot into lobby from last was how I got most of my damage.

Sigh, spamming scorch shot into lobby from last was how I got most of my damage.
19
#19
24 Frags +

Cool to see it's banned even if i was the only one to use the detonator. That's real intimidation.

I deserve at least a recognition for all my play testing, etf2l...

Cool to see it's banned even if i was the only one to use the detonator. That's real intimidation.

I deserve at least a recognition for all my play testing, etf2l...
20
#20
1 Frags +
GazMeanwhile the iron bomber is an upgrade in every aspect but still unbanned

this exactly. There is at least one yes in solarlight's quote that applies to this weapon.

I'm really interested in seeing the play footage used to determine that these were abused in actual league play and led to worse game experience.

[quote=Gaz]Meanwhile the iron bomber is an upgrade in every aspect but still unbanned[/quote]
this exactly. There is at least one yes in solarlight's quote that applies to this weapon.

I'm really interested in seeing the play footage used to determine that these were abused in actual league play and led to worse game experience.
21
#21
whitelist.tf
6 Frags +
pyropenguinmantreads should be unbanned since the glitch apparently got silent patched by valve according to this reddit post
I tried searching for more info on the gunboats/mantreads stacking glitch but couldn't even find out how to do it.

It should be as simple as equipping the mantreads, respawning with them and then swapping to gunboats.

I have checked all the addconds that you get when rocket jumping with and without the gunboats and there doesn't seem to be any inheritance (anymore ?), so I'm inclined to believe that this is indeed fixed.

----

UGC is mirroring the ETF2L 6v6 whitelist with the new bans and also (only) banning the Scorch Shot for their next Highlander season.

[quote=pyropenguin]mantreads should be unbanned since the glitch apparently got silent patched by valve according to this [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/7y7ybj/was_the_mantreads_bug_why_it_is_banned_on_the/]reddit post[/url]
I tried searching for more info on the gunboats/mantreads stacking glitch but couldn't even find out how to do it.[/quote]
It should be as simple as equipping the mantreads, respawning with them and then swapping to gunboats.

I have checked all the [url=https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Cheats#addcond]addconds[/url] that you get when rocket jumping with and without the gunboats and there doesn't seem to be any inheritance (anymore ?), so I'm inclined to believe that this is indeed fixed.

----

UGC is mirroring the ETF2L 6v6 whitelist with the new bans and also (only) banning the Scorch Shot for their next Highlander season.
22
#22
8 Frags +

NA has had 0 pyro unlocks banned for the last couple seasons and pyro is literally never used outside of last if at all.
What the fuck is going on in etf2l

NA has had 0 pyro unlocks banned for the last couple seasons and pyro is literally never used outside of last if at all.
What the fuck is going on in etf2l
23
#23
2 Frags +

The Global Whitelist for the 6v6 competitive format was released on September 8th, 2016 after weeks of discussion between league representatives and top players all over the world in an effort to standardize the competitive format. It was a major milestone because of the large variety of unlocks previously banned since their releases being unbanned except for the overly broken ones.

The Global Whitelist for the 6v6 competitive format was released on September 8th, 2016 after weeks of discussion between league representatives and top players all over the world in an effort to standardize the competitive format. [b]It was a major milestone because of the large variety of unlocks previously banned since their releases being unbanned except for the overly broken ones.[/b]
24
#24
-2 Frags +
Daffodil-NA has had 0 pyro unlocks banned for the last couple seasons and pyro is literally never used outside of last if at all.
What the fuck is going on in etf2l

you guys don't have olgha...

[quote=Daffodil-]NA has had 0 pyro unlocks banned for the last couple seasons and pyro is literally never used outside of last if at all.
What the fuck is going on in etf2l[/quote]
you guys don't have olgha...
25
#25
12 Frags +
hamahamDaffodil-NA has had 0 pyro unlocks banned for the last couple seasons and pyro is literally never used outside of last if at all.
What the fuck is going on in etf2l
you guys don't have olgha...

https://i.imgur.com/TTW2QxV.jpg

[quote=hamaham][quote=Daffodil-]NA has had 0 pyro unlocks banned for the last couple seasons and pyro is literally never used outside of last if at all.
What the fuck is going on in etf2l[/quote]
you guys don't have olgha...[/quote]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/TTW2QxV.jpg[/img]
26
#26
Essentials.tf
6 Frags +

I will admit that there is inherent bias on my part, but I'm in full support of these bans and think that the leagues that still use the Global Whitelist are correct in adopting it. However, I think that there should be some written guidelines as to what constitutes a ban. I do think the way that we approach bans right now is good, but it would be nice to have for players to see how Leagues come to those decisions.

also, thanks joe

I will admit that there is inherent bias on my part, but I'm in full support of these bans and think that the leagues that still use the Global Whitelist are correct in adopting it. However, I think that there should be some written guidelines as to what constitutes a ban. I do think the way that we approach bans right now is good, but it would be nice to have for players to see how Leagues come to those decisions.

also, thanks joe
27
#27
-4 Frags +
DrHappinessI think that there should be some written guidelines as to what constitutes a ban. I do think the way that we approach bans right now is good, but it would be nice to have for players to see how Leagues come to those decisions.

There was a very clear criteria upon the initial release of the Global Whitelist, but for some reason this criteria doesn't seem to be taken into account here. Downfrag me all you want but that's true. I for one would like to know why exactly these weapons were banned, besides being "spammy and annoying". Pyro wasn't exactly beating out the current meta.

[quote=DrHappiness]I think that there should be some written guidelines as to what constitutes a ban. I do think the way that we approach bans right now is good, but it would be nice to have for players to see how Leagues come to those decisions.[/quote]

There was a very clear criteria upon the initial release of the Global Whitelist, but for some reason this criteria doesn't seem to be taken into account here. Downfrag me all you want but that's true. I for one would like to know why exactly these weapons were banned, besides being "spammy and annoying". Pyro wasn't exactly beating out the current meta.
28
#28
20 Frags +

is reducing the enjoyability of the game not a valid reason to ban a weapon?
why would you willingly make the game less fun

is reducing the enjoyability of the game not a valid reason to ban a weapon?
why would you willingly make the game less fun
29
#29
-6 Frags +

Whether you enjoy fighting against a weapon or not should not have any bearing on its allowed or disallowed state, unless it's extreme. I would only see that as a valid reason to ban a weapon if Detonator Pyro were on par with a Scout and was actually affecting the meta, but we all know that this was not the case.

Whether you enjoy fighting against a weapon or not should not have any bearing on its allowed or disallowed state, unless it's extreme. I would only see that as a valid reason to ban a weapon if Detonator Pyro were on par with a Scout and was actually affecting the meta, but we all know that this was not the case.
30
#30
6 Frags +
Wandumis reducing the enjoyability of the game not a valid reason to ban a weapon?
why would you willingly make the game less fun

If you're going to use this reasoning then straight up removal of Sniper, Spy, Pyro, Heavy, and Engineer would make the game more fun and greatly reduce stalemates

No one likes getting airblasted
no one likes getting one clicked by a sniper they can barely see
No one likes pushing last into a sentry gun and heavy
no one likes getting one clicked by a character that goes invisible

[quote=Wandum]is reducing the enjoyability of the game not a valid reason to ban a weapon?
why would you willingly make the game less fun[/quote]


If you're going to use this reasoning then straight up removal of Sniper, Spy, Pyro, Heavy, and Engineer would make the game more fun and greatly reduce stalemates

No one likes getting airblasted
no one likes getting one clicked by a sniper they can barely see
No one likes pushing last into a sentry gun and heavy
no one likes getting one clicked by a character that goes invisible
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