Upvote Upvoted 79 Downvote Downvoted
1 2 3 4 5
bring back pugchamp
61
#61
-1 Frags +
JynxiiThis is one of the ever-present problems when it comes to matchmaking systems in general for any competitive game (be it dota, league, csgo) do you sacrifice wait times for higher quality games, or do you want almost instant games with a larger skill disparity. Obviously with a much larger playerbase in games like dota, this really only effects the very top level players (dota pros complain about low ranked players on their team etc.) but in tf2 it effects all level of play.

What you want is an elastic system that adjusts skill matching criteria based on current queue population and provides closer matches when possible and looser matches when activity is low. This could possibly be based on a user preference, although that does mean that users that always prioritise quality may never be matched during low population periods if other good players are willing to play a broader range of skill.

Ideally that would be something that received real time feedback so the waiting player could see what their skill preference would actually translate into in terms of wait time. Obviously nobody will do this.

[quote=Jynxii]This is one of the ever-present problems when it comes to matchmaking systems in general for any competitive game (be it dota, league, csgo) do you sacrifice wait times for higher quality games, or do you want almost instant games with a larger skill disparity. Obviously with a much larger playerbase in games like dota, this really only effects the very top level players (dota pros complain about low ranked players on their team etc.) but in tf2 it effects all level of play.[/quote]
What you want is an elastic system that adjusts skill matching criteria based on current queue population and provides closer matches when possible and looser matches when activity is low. This could possibly be based on a user preference, although that does mean that users that always prioritise quality may never be matched during low population periods if other good players are willing to play a broader range of skill.

Ideally that would be something that received real time feedback so the waiting player could see what their skill preference would actually translate into in terms of wait time. Obviously nobody will do this.
62
#62
1 Frags +
GentlemanJonObviously nobody will do this.

Someone already has, but you aren't going to like the answer.

https://tinyurl.com/y9oqzxk2

[quote=GentlemanJon]Obviously nobody will do this.[/quote]

Someone already has, but you aren't going to like the answer.

https://tinyurl.com/y9oqzxk2
63
#63
5 Frags +
KikiGentlemanJonObviously nobody will do this.
Someone already has, but you aren't going to like the answer.

https://tinyurl.com/y9oqzxk2

I don't mind the answer, more the maps, whitelists and class limits or lack thereof.

[quote=Kiki][quote=GentlemanJon]Obviously nobody will do this.[/quote]

Someone already has, but you aren't going to like the answer.

https://tinyurl.com/y9oqzxk2[/quote]
I don't mind the answer, more the maps, whitelists and class limits or lack thereof.
64
#64
-7 Frags +

Face it

Face it
65
#65
-1 Frags +

Mixchamp should be revived if pugchamp is to come back.

Mixchamp should be revived if pugchamp is to come back.
66
#66
Tip of the Hats
96 Frags +

I hate pugchamp
Months of complaining
Face it comes out with new pug system
This system sucks, nothing was ever wrong with pugchamp
I wonder what is next in this chain of events

Sent from my ipad

I hate pugchamp
Months of complaining
Face it comes out with new pug system
This system sucks, nothing was ever wrong with pugchamp
I wonder what is next in this chain of events


Sent from my ipad
67
#67
24 Frags +

every pug system we stray further and further from the best one we ever had

irc

every pug system we stray further and further from the best one we ever had

irc
68
#68
14 Frags +
truktrukI hate pugchamp
Months of complaining
Face it comes out with new pug system
This system sucks, nothing was ever wrong with pugchamp
I wonder what is next in this chain of events

Sent from my ipad

The reasons that people complained about pugchamp are a bit different than the reasons they complain about faceit. Sure pugchamp games weren't always super balanced but I think almost everyone would say that the game quality is far inferior on faceit. Pugchamp suffer(ed/s) from lack of development with only 2 developers working on it in their free time vs a company dedicated to esports with a payroll'd development team.

There is plenty of people in this community capable of making contributions to the pugchamp codebase which could sort out bugs and add features, but the fact of the matter is people simply don't care enough/don't have the time to do it.

[quote=truktruk]I hate pugchamp
Months of complaining
Face it comes out with new pug system
This system sucks, nothing was ever wrong with pugchamp
I wonder what is next in this chain of events


Sent from my ipad[/quote]
The reasons that people complained about pugchamp are a bit different than the reasons they complain about faceit. Sure pugchamp games weren't always super balanced but I think almost everyone would say that the game quality is far inferior on faceit. Pugchamp suffer(ed/s) from lack of development with only 2 developers working on it in their free time vs a company dedicated to esports with a payroll'd development team.

There is plenty of people in this community capable of making contributions to the pugchamp codebase which could sort out bugs and add features, but the fact of the matter is people simply don't care enough/don't have the time to do it.
69
#69
-19 Frags +

my favorite tf2pl ban so far. "ineffective offclassing"

https://i.imgur.com/X27VbVN.jpg

guess which one is me. also our medic switched to sniper after like two minutes. good stuff.

never actually used pugchamp because i assumed no one would pick me but i think i'll queue up later tonight.

my favorite tf2pl ban so far. "ineffective offclassing"

https://i.imgur.com/X27VbVN.jpg

guess which one is me. also our medic switched to sniper after like two minutes. good stuff.

never actually used pugchamp because i assumed no one would pick me but i think i'll queue up later tonight.
70
#70
8 Frags +

ADD UP NOW 10/12

NA PUGCHAMP NOW

NOW

ADD UP NOW 10/12

NA PUGCHAMP NOW

NOW
71
#71
4 Frags +

THANKS

THANKS
72
#72
Tip of the Hats
33 Frags +

I am well aware why people are complaining about each system. It's just funny to me how upset people are about everything all the time. You lose quality to play more guaranteed games in FaceIT. On PugChamp you risk missing out on games and play less games overall to have a higher average quality of game. These points are obvious.

As someone who has pugged since the IRC days, most pugs are pretty fun. I'll play whatever is being played but I find it offputting how upset people have gotten over pug systems throughout the history of TF2.

I am well aware why people are complaining about each system. It's just funny to me how upset people are about everything all the time. You lose quality to play more guaranteed games in FaceIT. On PugChamp you risk missing out on games and play less games overall to have a higher average quality of game. These points are obvious.

As someone who has pugged since the IRC days, most pugs are pretty fun. I'll play whatever is being played but I find it offputting how upset people have gotten over pug systems throughout the history of TF2.
73
#73
31 Frags +
glassmy favorite tf2pl ban so far. "ineffective offclassing"
https://i.imgur.com/X27VbVN.jpg
guess which one is me. also our medic switched to sniper after like two minutes. good stuff.

Will you give me art lessons ? Cause the picture you just painted is fucking astonishing.

https://www.faceit.com/en/tf2/room/1-89cbb9fb-0f45-44c2-9832-6f192f36af18/scoreboard

https://i.imgur.com/cEpwkVw.png

https://i.imgur.com/8uAuS6M.png

If you watch the demo, and I think you should learn from your mistakes, you will realize that you've decided to feed as soldier five times in a row, then started feeding as pyro (I think you've played 10 minutes of pyro and 17 of soldier?), then your whole team tilted.
What you should have done is: keep a level-head for more than 5 minutes, report the scout who ended up +lefting in spawn so he wouldn't get auto-kicked for AFK, and not assume pocket heals when all you'd be doing is let your medic die after feeding. Five wrongs don't make a right.

Have fun :) !

[quote=glass]my favorite tf2pl ban so far. "ineffective offclassing"
https://i.imgur.com/X27VbVN.jpg
guess which one is me. also our medic switched to sniper after like two minutes. good stuff.
[/quote]

Will you give me art lessons ? Cause the picture you just painted is fucking astonishing.

https://www.faceit.com/en/tf2/room/1-89cbb9fb-0f45-44c2-9832-6f192f36af18/scoreboard
[img]https://i.imgur.com/cEpwkVw.png[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/8uAuS6M.png[/img]
If you watch the demo, and I think you should learn from your mistakes, you will realize that you've decided to feed as soldier five times in a row, then started feeding as pyro (I think you've played 10 minutes of pyro and 17 of soldier?), then your whole team tilted.
What you should have done is: keep a level-head for more than 5 minutes, report the scout who ended up +lefting in spawn so he wouldn't get auto-kicked for AFK, and not assume pocket heals when all you'd be doing is let your medic die after feeding. Five wrongs don't make a right.

Have fun :) !
74
#74
12 Frags +

B4nny is being used as a scapegoat.

B4nny is being used as a scapegoat.
75
#75
-28 Frags +
TwiiKuuglassmy favorite tf2pl ban so far. "ineffective offclassing"
https://i.imgur.com/X27VbVN.jpg
guess which one is me. also our medic switched to sniper after like two minutes. good stuff.

Will you give me art lessons ? Cause the picture you just painted is fucking astonishing.

https://www.faceit.com/en/tf2/room/1-89cbb9fb-0f45-44c2-9832-6f192f36af18/scoreboard
https://i.imgur.com/cEpwkVw.png
https://i.imgur.com/8uAuS6M.png
If you watch the demo, and I think you should learn from your mistakes, you will realize that you've decided to feed as soldier five times in a row, then started feeding as pyro (I think you've played 10 minutes of pyro and 17 of soldier?), then your whole team tilted.
What you should have done is: keep a level-head for more than 5 minutes, report the scout who ended up +lefting in spawn so he wouldn't get auto-kicked for AFK, and not assume pocket heals when all you'd be doing is let your medic die after feeding. Five wrongs don't make a right.

Have fun :) !

oh yeah i was def drunk. beginner is only tolerable drunk. but yeah if feeding = top damaging the server while continually sacking to try to equalize our uber disad (since we had no medic) and make a 4v6 interesting then yeah i will have fun. thx

[quote=TwiiKuu][quote=glass]my favorite tf2pl ban so far. "ineffective offclassing"
https://i.imgur.com/X27VbVN.jpg
guess which one is me. also our medic switched to sniper after like two minutes. good stuff.
[/quote]

Will you give me art lessons ? Cause the picture you just painted is fucking astonishing.

https://www.faceit.com/en/tf2/room/1-89cbb9fb-0f45-44c2-9832-6f192f36af18/scoreboard
[img]https://i.imgur.com/cEpwkVw.png[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/8uAuS6M.png[/img]
If you watch the demo, and I think you should learn from your mistakes, you will realize that you've decided to feed as soldier five times in a row, then started feeding as pyro (I think you've played 10 minutes of pyro and 17 of soldier?), then your whole team tilted.
What you should have done is: keep a level-head for more than 5 minutes, report the scout who ended up +lefting in spawn so he wouldn't get auto-kicked for AFK, and not assume pocket heals when all you'd be doing is let your medic die after feeding. Five wrongs don't make a right.

Have fun :) ![/quote]
oh yeah i was def drunk. beginner is only tolerable drunk. but yeah if feeding = top damaging the server while continually sacking to try to equalize our uber disad (since we had no medic) and make a 4v6 interesting then yeah i will have fun. thx
76
#76
26 Frags +
glassTwiiKuuglassmy favorite tf2pl ban so far. "ineffective offclassing"
https://i.imgur.com/X27VbVN.jpg
guess which one is me. also our medic switched to sniper after like two minutes. good stuff.

Will you give me art lessons ? Cause the picture you just painted is fucking astonishing.

https://www.faceit.com/en/tf2/room/1-89cbb9fb-0f45-44c2-9832-6f192f36af18/scoreboard
https://i.imgur.com/cEpwkVw.png
https://i.imgur.com/8uAuS6M.png
If you watch the demo, and I think you should learn from your mistakes, you will realize that you've decided to feed as soldier five times in a row, then started feeding as pyro (I think you've played 10 minutes of pyro and 17 of soldier?), then your whole team tilted.
What you should have done is: keep a level-head for more than 5 minutes, report the scout who ended up +lefting in spawn so he wouldn't get auto-kicked for AFK, and not assume pocket heals when all you'd be doing is let your medic die after feeding. Five wrongs don't make a right.

Have fun :) !
oh yeah i was def drunk. beginner is only tolerable drunk. but yeah if feeding = top damaging the server while continually sacking to try to equalize our uber disad (since we had no medic) and make a 4v6 interesting then yeah i will have fun. thx

I’ve reported you at least 20 times just for offclassing and not using your mic, glad you got banned

[quote=glass][quote=TwiiKuu][quote=glass]my favorite tf2pl ban so far. "ineffective offclassing"
https://i.imgur.com/X27VbVN.jpg
guess which one is me. also our medic switched to sniper after like two minutes. good stuff.
[/quote]

Will you give me art lessons ? Cause the picture you just painted is fucking astonishing.

https://www.faceit.com/en/tf2/room/1-89cbb9fb-0f45-44c2-9832-6f192f36af18/scoreboard
[img]https://i.imgur.com/cEpwkVw.png[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/8uAuS6M.png[/img]
If you watch the demo, and I think you should learn from your mistakes, you will realize that you've decided to feed as soldier five times in a row, then started feeding as pyro (I think you've played 10 minutes of pyro and 17 of soldier?), then your whole team tilted.
What you should have done is: keep a level-head for more than 5 minutes, report the scout who ended up +lefting in spawn so he wouldn't get auto-kicked for AFK, and not assume pocket heals when all you'd be doing is let your medic die after feeding. Five wrongs don't make a right.

Have fun :) ![/quote]
oh yeah i was def drunk. beginner is only tolerable drunk. but yeah if feeding = top damaging the server while continually sacking to try to equalize our uber disad (since we had no medic) and make a 4v6 interesting then yeah i will have fun. thx[/quote]
I’ve reported you at least 20 times just for offclassing and not using your mic, glad you got banned
77
#77
19 Frags +

best thing about tf2pl for me is that the admins actually ban people who play pyro half the game, this never happened with pugchamp

best thing about tf2pl for me is that the admins actually ban people who play pyro half the game, this never happened with pugchamp
78
#78
-10 Frags +
-protobest thing about tf2pl for me is that the admins actually ban people who play pyro half the game, this never happened with pugchamp

It did but a meme was born...

http://www.teamfortress.tv/44871/olgha-getting-ban-for-being-good

[quote=-proto]best thing about tf2pl for me is that the admins actually ban people who play pyro half the game, this never happened with pugchamp[/quote]

It did but a meme was born...

http://www.teamfortress.tv/44871/olgha-getting-ban-for-being-good
79
#79
7 Frags +

I honestly don't think it would work as well now, but I really enjoyed the #tf2mix system. It would alternate between a pug with captains, and then one where you could add up on specific classes till 12 people were added up. If you didn't like the teams you could scramble them. This was good good because you could have higher level pugs as well as fatkid pugs at any point in the day. Also the game wasn't dead then so that helped lol.

I honestly don't think it would work as well now, but I really enjoyed the #tf2mix system. It would alternate between a pug with captains, and then one where you could add up on specific classes till 12 people were added up. If you didn't like the teams you could scramble them. This was good good because you could have higher level pugs as well as fatkid pugs at any point in the day. Also the game wasn't dead then so that helped lol.
80
#80
8 Frags +
truktrukI am well aware why people are complaining about each system. It's just funny to me how upset people are about everything all the time. You lose quality to play more guaranteed games in FaceIT. On PugChamp you risk missing out on games and play less games overall to have a higher average quality of game. These points are obvious.

People don't realize the value of what they once had until it's gone.

[quote=truktruk]I am well aware why people are complaining about each system. It's just funny to me how upset people are about everything all the time. You lose quality to play more guaranteed games in FaceIT. On PugChamp you risk missing out on games and play less games overall to have a higher average quality of game. These points are obvious.
[/quote]
People don't realize the value of what they once had until it's gone.
81
#81
1 Frags +

both are bad but pugchamp is the lesser of 2 evils not gonna lie

both are bad but pugchamp is the lesser of 2 evils not gonna lie
82
#82
10 Frags +
truktruk On PugChamp you risk missing out on games and play less games overall to have a higher average quality of game..

funny how this was the complete opposite of my faceit experience, there was waaaay less pugs on faceit than on pugchamp

[quote=truktruk] On PugChamp you risk missing out on games and play less games overall to have a higher average quality of game..[/quote]

funny how this was the complete opposite of my faceit experience, there was waaaay less pugs on faceit than on pugchamp
83
#83
89 Frags +

Im going to tell everyone a story, back from the days when TF2 had a brighter future and we collectively ruined it.

ever since ESEA's inclusion to league play in TF2, the community has constantly shot itself in the foot by frivolously creating our own platforms for literally anything at all instead of using platforms created for us by said big leagues (in this earlier case, ESEA), we want our own pug systems, we want our own forums, we want our own rules, we want our own leagues, we want we want we want. All TF2 has ever done is failed to cooperate with its only major chance at being successful and what is happening right now with this witch hunt on faceit's pug system is the exact same thing all over again.

It started 8 years ago when Torbull begged the invite TF2 players to encourage use of their pug systems (a major source of revenue for them) which if it gained popularity, would have directly benefitted TF2. it was attempted multiple times with the same issues as this; people complaining the system isn't good enough and their own system was better. But the question people need to start asking themselves is what is really better? A community run system that is a little better, or the system that is new and needs some work that is actually attached to some form of system that could benefit TF2 in the long run.

The reality is; PugChamp will not do anything for TF2 in the long run, Faceit will. I would really advise on not repeating the mistakes of our past when a major company has stepped into the light and attempted to help TF2 and put TF2 on their radar. This community needs a major culture change in terms of attitude towards league run systems instead of defaulting to short term relief for inferior pug systems, it has been the attitude that has plagued this community for almost 8 years now.

Please think about what you are doing.

Im going to tell everyone a story, back from the days when TF2 had a brighter future and we collectively ruined it.

ever since ESEA's inclusion to league play in TF2, the community has constantly shot itself in the foot by frivolously creating our own platforms for [b]literally anything at all[/b] instead of using platforms created for us by said big leagues (in this earlier case, ESEA), we want our own pug systems, we want our own forums, we want our own rules, we want our own leagues, we want we want we want. All TF2 has ever done is failed to cooperate with its only major chance at being successful and what is happening right now with this witch hunt on faceit's pug system is the exact same thing all over again.

It started 8 years ago when Torbull begged the invite TF2 players to encourage use of their pug systems (a major source of revenue for them) which if it gained popularity, would have directly benefitted TF2. it was [b]attempted multiple times[/b] with the same issues as this; people complaining the system isn't good enough and their own system was better. But the question people need to start asking themselves is what is really better? A community run system that is a little better, or the system that is new and needs some work that is actually attached to some form of system that could benefit TF2 in the long run.

The reality is; [b]PugChamp will not do anything for TF2 in the long run, Faceit will[/b]. I would really advise on not repeating the mistakes of our past when a major company has stepped into the light and attempted to help TF2 and put TF2 on their radar. This community needs a major culture change in terms of attitude towards league run systems instead of defaulting to short term relief for inferior pug systems, it has been the attitude that has plagued this community for almost 8 years now.

Please think about what you are doing.
84
#84
21 Frags +
lucrativesnip

I think you make a ton of great points about how we should unify as a community under one system, but currently there is a lot of frustration for myself and I'd argue the better majority of advanced players surrounding the current issues with the system. I'm aware some of these things can't be fixed over night but you can't blame people for feeling like nothing will change when they've had to deal with valve as a developer for the past 11 years.

On the official tf2pl thread there is like 6 pages of people offering legitimate/concrete feedback towards the system and none of the tf2pl dev team, admins, or "tf2-ceo" himself has addressed any of them. I know people don't expect a sub system immediately but if there was a channel of communication from literally anyone, people would feel a lot better about pledging their loyalty to faceit.

[quote=lucrative]snip[/quote]
I think you make a ton of great points about how we should unify as a community under one system, but currently there is a lot of frustration for myself and I'd argue the better majority of advanced players surrounding the current issues with the system. I'm aware some of these things can't be fixed over night but you can't blame people for feeling like nothing will change when they've had to deal with valve as a developer for the past 11 years.

On the official tf2pl thread there is like 6 pages of people offering legitimate/concrete feedback towards the system and none of the tf2pl dev team, admins, or "tf2-ceo" himself has addressed any of them. I know people don't expect a sub system immediately but if there was a channel of communication from literally anyone, people would feel a lot better about pledging their loyalty to faceit.
85
#85
12 Frags +

Reminder that FaceIT directly worked with Valve (and other tournament organizers) to help them do their Dota Qualifies, and has sponsored a Counter Strike Major.

Reminder that FaceIT directly worked with Valve (and other tournament organizers) to help them do their Dota Qualifies, and has sponsored a Counter Strike Major.
86
#86
6 Frags +

Give Me My TF2 Major

Give Me My TF2 Major
87
#87
11 Frags +
lucrativeamazing post

this is too true, too real. everyone needs to read this imo

[quote=lucrative]amazing post[/quote]

this is too true, too real. everyone needs to read this imo
88
#88
44 Frags +

completely agree with lucrative

faceit has really annoying problems with it, but the upside of it is massive

completely agree with lucrative

faceit has really annoying problems with it, but the upside of it is massive
89
#89
16 Frags +
wolsneOn the official tf2pl thread there is like 6 pages of people offering legitimate/concrete feedback towards the system and none of the tf2pl dev team, admins, or "tf2-ceo" himself has addressed any of them. I know people don't expect a sub system immediately but if there was a channel of communication from literally anyone, people would feel a lot better about pledging their loyalty to faceit.

Sorry, we'll definitely get to it, I want to uphold a decent level of transparency, we've mostly just been very busy.

LegendaryRQAReminder that FaceIT directly worked with Valve (and other tournament organizers) to help them do their Dota Qualifies, and has sponsored a Counter Strike Major.

And made the TF2 team update the in-game voice codecs :)

[quote=wolsne]On the official tf2pl thread there is like 6 pages of people offering legitimate/concrete feedback towards the system and none of the tf2pl dev team, admins, or "tf2-ceo" himself has addressed any of them. I know people don't expect a sub system immediately but if there was a channel of communication from literally anyone, people would feel a lot better about pledging their loyalty to faceit.[/quote]
Sorry, we'll definitely get to it, I want to uphold a decent level of transparency, we've mostly just been very busy.

[quote=LegendaryRQA]Reminder that FaceIT directly worked with Valve (and other tournament organizers) to help them do their Dota Qualifies, and has sponsored a Counter Strike Major.[/quote]
And made the TF2 team update the in-game voice codecs :)
90
#90
6 Frags +
wolsnelucrativesnipI think you make a ton of great points about how we should unify as a community under one system, but currently there is a lot of frustration for myself and I'd argue the better majority of advanced players surrounding the current issues with the system. I'm aware some of these things can't be fixed over night but you can't blame people for feeling like nothing will change when they've had to deal with valve as a developer for the past 11 years.

On the official tf2pl thread there is like 6 pages of people offering legitimate/concrete feedback towards the system and none of the tf2pl dev team, admins, or "tf2-ceo" himself has addressed any of them. I know people don't expect a sub system immediately but if there was a channel of communication from literally anyone, people would feel a lot better about pledging their loyalty to faceit.

twiiku responds to a lot of them i think

[quote=wolsne][quote=lucrative]snip[/quote]
I think you make a ton of great points about how we should unify as a community under one system, but currently there is a lot of frustration for myself and I'd argue the better majority of advanced players surrounding the current issues with the system. I'm aware some of these things can't be fixed over night but you can't blame people for feeling like nothing will change when they've had to deal with valve as a developer for the past 11 years.

On the official tf2pl thread there is like 6 pages of people offering legitimate/concrete feedback towards the system and none of the tf2pl dev team, admins, or "tf2-ceo" himself has addressed any of them. I know people don't expect a sub system immediately but if there was a channel of communication from literally anyone, people would feel a lot better about pledging their loyalty to faceit.[/quote]
twiiku responds to a lot of them i think
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