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December Global Whitelist Changes
1
#1
ETF2L
0 Frags +

The Jungle Inferno update was introduced mid-season, and some provisional measures were taken by the admin team. This included bans for both the new weapons (Dragon’s Fury, Gas Passer, Thermal Thruster, Hot Hand, Second Banana) as well as the majority of the changed weapons (Panic Attack, Pretty Boy’s Pocket Pistol, Mantreads, Beggar’s Bazooka, Backburner).

These changes meant the previous whitelist was modified in favour of an updated whitelist. Since this was only a short-term adjustment which be improved upon, let us look at the changes needed for the next iteration of the Global Whitelist. With some downtime during the holidays we’ll be approaching the whitelist slightly differently; due to there being limited playtest data available for the new and changed weapons since the update.

The following weapons will be unbanned in a provisional whitelist for a short amount of time, after which we will make a decision on the temporarily allowed weapons. The final decision will be made in early January.

  • The Gas Passer
  • B.A.S.E Jumper
  • Bonk! Atomic Punch
  • Sandman

We ask you to try out these weapons and provide feedback so we can make the best decision!

Apart from testing weapons we also ask you to give feedback on the Pyro class as a whole. We want your thoughts on Pyro's old weapons, as well as the new one that will be unbanned by this whitelist.

Changes to the whitelist
Below is a summary of changes that will be part of the whitelist, followed by an explanation for each weapon as to why it is allowed, banned or being tested.

Multiple Classes

  • Panic Attack -> Unbanned
  • B.A.S.E Jumper -> Unbanned for testing

Scout

  • Sandman -> Unbanned for testing
  • Bonk! Atomic Punch -> Unbanned for testing

Soldier

  • Cow Mangler 5000 -> Banned
  • Beggar’s Bazooka -> Unbanned

Pyro

  • Backburner -> Unbanned
  • Gas Passer -> Unbanned for testing
  • Thermal Thruster -> Unbanned
  • Hot Hand -> Unbanned

Heavy

  • Natascha -> Banned
  • Second Banana -> Unbanned
  • Gloves of Running Urgently -> Unbanned

Medic

  • Vita-Saw -> Unbanned

Sniper

  • Darwin’s Danger Shield -> Unbanned

Reasoning behind (un)bans

Panic Attack - Unbanned
Although heavily changed from its previous version it still isn't a standout weapon. Its reduced bullets per shot and damage penalty lead to the weapon doing worse than the default shotgun in most cases.

Pocket Pistol - Banned (Unchanged)
Although its initial bug of always getting +7 health has been fixed; the weapon maintains to be an issue. This due to its faster firing speed combined with the healing while having a minor downside. Due to this the weapon will remain banned.

Cow Mangler 5000 and Natascha - Banned
Both of these weapons have been discussed in depth in the past. With both of them getting buffed in the update, we opted to ban them.

Beggar’s Bazooka - Unbanned
Although there is still a bug (of which abuse is easily proven) that persists with the Beggar’s Bazooka its effect on the weapon isn't enough to warrant a ban of the weapon.

Backburner - Unbanned
Banned recently due to a bug. With this getting fixed in the update of 13-12 we will be unbanning the weapon.

Dragon Fury - Banned (Unchanged)
The weapon itself does have a larger range than the base flamethrower and its projectiles don't match their visual. The reduced airblast rate is a significant downside and its overall damage does match to the other flamethrowers (Although this might be because they seem bugged). But with the Pyro class already changing a lot as well, together with new Pyro weapons that haven't seen competitive play yet, we will keep this banned.

Thermal Thruster - Unbanned
A very unique tool for the Pyro that brings new opportunities for the class. The weapon has a slow recharge as well slow weapon switching speed. The weapon’s unique ability isn't amazing, because Pyro's overall mobility is still far from Soldier or Scout. For this reason the weapon is unbanned.

Hot Hand - Unbanned
This weapon doesn't add much to Pyro. Although slapping people is a very satisfying thing to do the weapon in itself isn't strong.

Second Banana - Unbanned
The weapon doesn't stand out too much(So much that we initially missed it in this post). Its made to commemorate the Heavy losing to Pyro in the race for the update. And thus the weapon isn't an original design and feels like a Sandvich with slightly altered stats. With the Sandvich already being allowed the Banana can get added on in as an somewhat situational alternative.

Gloves of Running Urgently - Unbanned
These gloves got changed quite heavily. Instead of having a mini-crit effect on equip you now drain your maximum HP. Although getting to mid fast is now possible, getting there fast with lots of HP isn't. Since you need considerable time to recharge your HP and your buff is also affected, the weapon is unbanned.

Vita-Saw - Unbanned
The Vita-Saw’s stats have finally changed after being in the game for 7 years(!). The weapons ability to maintain a % of your ÜberCharge after death is still something that shouldn't be underestimated. But due to it only allowing you to maintain it after hitting an enemy with it, it is more skill rewarding. It doesn't overshadow the Ubersaw and vice versa but both will have their situational benefits. Due to this the Vita-Saw is unbanned.

Darwin’s Danger Shield - Unbanned
It blocks fire damage instead of bullets and doesn't give +25 max HP on the wearer. With the amount of Pyro's running rampant on pubs it has its utility there but in 6v6 its effects won't show as much leading to it being unbanned.

Global & Provisional whitelist
So here we are, our provisional whitelist is done and can be found here.(ID:8195)

We are aware that there are still some bugs with the weapons that are being allowed in this whitelist, however these don't completely break the weapon. Any abuse will get handled by the respective league that they occur in.

The only weapon that maintains a major impact bug is the Gloves of Running Urgently. This bug however has not been reproduced yet with consistent results. While our testing period with the provisional whitelist is going on we ask players to see if they can replicate any bugs with the GRU, and if so the weapon’s status in the whitelist will change accordingly. If players have this bug happen during a match we ask of them to act as honorably as possible. Here is the only noted case of the GRU bug occuring.

That's all for now, we will be actively reading any discussions that go on in regards to the whitelist and appreciate anybody that tries to take part in the discussion.

We won't keep you any longer than we already have: Happy Holidays to everybody! <3
Here’s to another amazing year of TF2!

-Your Global League Administrators

Thank you to NYK and Wiethoofd for their help in this writeup.

The Jungle Inferno update was introduced mid-season, and some provisional measures were taken by the admin team. This included bans for both the new weapons ([i]Dragon’s Fury, Gas Passer, Thermal Thruster, Hot Hand, Second Banana[/i]) as well as the majority of the changed weapons ([i]Panic Attack, Pretty Boy’s Pocket Pistol, Mantreads, Beggar’s Bazooka, Backburner[/i]).

These changes meant [url=http://whitelist.tf/7210]the previous whitelist[/url] was modified in favour of [url=http://whitelist.tf/8030]an updated whitelist[/url]. Since this was only a short-term adjustment which be improved upon, let us look at the changes needed for the next iteration of the [b]Global Whitelist[/b]. With some downtime during the holidays we’ll be approaching the whitelist slightly differently; due to there being limited playtest data available for the new and changed weapons since the update.

The following weapons will be unbanned in a provisional whitelist for a short amount of time, after which we will make a decision on the temporarily allowed weapons. The final decision will be made in early January.
[list]
[*]The Gas Passer
[*]B.A.S.E Jumper
[*]Bonk! Atomic Punch
[*]Sandman
[/list]
[b]We ask you to try out these weapons and provide feedback so we can make the best decision![/b]

Apart from testing weapons we also ask you to give feedback on the Pyro class as a whole. We want your thoughts on Pyro's old weapons, as well as the new one that will be unbanned by this whitelist.

[b][size=16]Changes to the whitelist[/size][/b]
Below is a summary of changes that will be part of the whitelist, followed by an explanation for each weapon as to why it is allowed, banned or being tested.

[b]Multiple Classes[/b]
[list]
[*]Panic Attack -> Unbanned
[*]B.A.S.E Jumper -> Unbanned [u]for testing[/u]
[/list]
[b]Scout[/b]
[list]
[*]Sandman -> Unbanned for testing
[*]Bonk! Atomic Punch -> Unbanned [u]for testing[/u]
[/list]
[b]Soldier[/b]
[list]
[*]Cow Mangler 5000 -> Banned
[*]Beggar’s Bazooka -> Unbanned
[/list]
[b]Pyro[/b]
[list]
[*]Backburner -> Unbanned
[*]Gas Passer -> Unbanned [u]for testing[/u]
[*]Thermal Thruster -> Unbanned
[*]Hot Hand -> Unbanned
[/list]
[b]Heavy[/b]
[list]
[*]Natascha -> Banned
[*]Second Banana -> Unbanned
[*]Gloves of Running Urgently -> Unbanned
[/list]
[b]Medic[/b]
[list]
[*]Vita-Saw -> Unbanned
[/list]
[b]Sniper[/b]
[list]
[*]Darwin’s Danger Shield -> Unbanned
[/list]

[b][h]Reasoning behind (un)bans[/h][/b]

[b][size=16]Panic Attack - [/size][size=12]Unbanned[/size][/b]
Although heavily changed from its previous version it still isn't a standout weapon. Its reduced bullets per shot and damage penalty lead to the weapon doing worse than the default shotgun in most cases.

[b][size=16]Pocket Pistol - [/size][size=12]Banned (Unchanged)[/size][/b]
Although its initial bug of always getting +7 health has been fixed; the weapon maintains to be an issue. This due to its faster firing speed combined with the healing while having a minor downside. Due to this the weapon will remain banned.

[b][size=16]Cow Mangler 5000 and Natascha - [/size][size=12]Banned[/size][/b]
Both of these weapons have been discussed in depth in the past. With both of them getting buffed in the update, we opted to ban them.

[b][size=16]Beggar’s Bazooka - [/size][size=12]Unbanned[/size][/b]
Although there is still a bug (of which abuse is easily proven) that persists with the Beggar’s Bazooka its effect on the weapon isn't enough to warrant a ban of the weapon.

[b][size=16]Backburner - [/size][size=12]Unbanned[/size][/b]
Banned recently due to a bug. With this getting fixed in the update of 13-12 we will be unbanning the weapon.

[b][size=16]Dragon Fury - [/size][size=12]Banned (Unchanged)[/size][/b]
The weapon itself does have a larger range than the base flamethrower and its projectiles don't match their visual. The reduced airblast rate is a significant downside and its overall damage does match to the other flamethrowers (Although this might be because they seem bugged). But with the Pyro class already changing a lot as well, together with new Pyro weapons that haven't seen competitive play yet, we will keep this banned.

[b][size=16]Thermal Thruster - [/size][size=12]Unbanned[/size][/b]
A very unique tool for the Pyro that brings new opportunities for the class. The weapon has a slow recharge as well slow weapon switching speed. The weapon’s unique ability isn't amazing, because Pyro's overall mobility is still far from Soldier or Scout. For this reason the weapon is unbanned.

[b][size=16]Hot Hand - [/size][size=12]Unbanned[/size][/b]
This weapon doesn't add much to Pyro. Although slapping people is a very satisfying thing to do the weapon in itself isn't strong.

[b][size=16]Second Banana - [/size][size=12]Unbanned[/size][/b]
The weapon doesn't stand out too much(So much that we initially missed it in this post). Its made to commemorate the Heavy losing to Pyro in the race for the update. And thus the weapon isn't an original design and feels like a Sandvich with slightly altered stats. With the Sandvich already being allowed the Banana can get added on in as an somewhat situational alternative.

[b][size=16]Gloves of Running Urgently - [/size][size=12]Unbanned[/size][/b]
These gloves got changed quite heavily. Instead of having a mini-crit effect on equip you now drain your maximum HP. Although getting to mid fast is now possible, getting there fast with lots of HP isn't. Since you need considerable time to recharge your HP and your buff is also affected, the weapon is unbanned.

[b][size=16]Vita-Saw - [/size][size=12]Unbanned[/size][/b]
The Vita-Saw’s stats have finally changed after being in the game for 7 years(!). The weapons ability to maintain a % of your ÜberCharge after death is still something that shouldn't be underestimated. But due to it only allowing you to maintain it after hitting an enemy with it, it is more skill rewarding. It doesn't overshadow the Ubersaw and vice versa but both will have their situational benefits. Due to this the Vita-Saw is unbanned.

[b][size=16]Darwin’s Danger Shield - [/size][size=12]Unbanned[/size][/b]
It blocks fire damage instead of bullets and doesn't give +25 max HP on the wearer. With the amount of Pyro's running rampant on pubs it has its utility there but in 6v6 its effects won't show as much leading to it being unbanned.

[b][h]Global & Provisional whitelist[/h][/b]
So here we are, our provisional whitelist is done and [url=http://whitelist.tf/8195]can be found here[/url].(ID:8195)

We are aware that there are still some bugs with the weapons that are being allowed in this whitelist, however these don't completely break the weapon. Any abuse will get handled by the respective league that they occur in.

The only weapon that maintains a major impact bug is the Gloves of Running Urgently. This bug however has not been reproduced yet with consistent results. While our testing period with the provisional whitelist is going on we ask players to see if they can replicate any bugs with the GRU, and if so the weapon’s status in the whitelist will change accordingly. If players have this bug happen during a match we ask of them to act as honorably as possible. [url=https://youtu.be/Cbt5SK-JsJ8?t=41s]Here is the only noted case of the GRU bug occuring.[/url]

That's all for now, we will be actively reading any discussions that go on in regards to the whitelist and appreciate anybody that tries to take part in the discussion.

We won't keep you any longer than we already have: Happy Holidays to everybody! <3
Here’s to another amazing year of TF2!

-Your Global League Administrators

Thank you to NYK and Wiethoofd for their help in this writeup.
2
#2
-8 Frags +

interesting :o

interesting :o
3
#3
-11 Frags +

NOOO THE COW MANGLER

NOOO THE COW MANGLER
4
#4
79 Frags +

anybody wanna buy a pro ks strange cow mangler

anybody wanna buy a pro ks strange cow mangler
5
#5
16 Frags +

manger down

manger down
6
#6
32 Frags +

like the cow mangler change, LOVE the natascha change

like the cow mangler change, LOVE the natascha change
7
#7
34 Frags +

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/ay5GmZP-4ksNscGksL8ZildnDuerCZLPOkzK3qXaaEY/https/cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227112712360951810/395012073589047298/sheepymaths.png

[img]https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/ay5GmZP-4ksNscGksL8ZildnDuerCZLPOkzK3qXaaEY/https/cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227112712360951810/395012073589047298/sheepymaths.png[/img]
8
#8
35 Frags +

cow mangler is kinda dumb but i dont think allowing it to get mini crits when kritzed should really push it over the top
that scenario should never happen anyways when you can just flash a scout or other soldier with regular rockets

there's certainly an argument to be made for banning it but given the decision to allow it the past few seasons it doesn't really make sense, the new change hardly affects gameplay if at all

cow mangler is kinda dumb but i dont think allowing it to get mini crits when kritzed should really push it over the top
that scenario should never happen anyways when you can just flash a scout or other soldier with regular rockets

there's certainly an argument to be made for banning it but given the decision to allow it the past few seasons it doesn't really make sense, the new change hardly affects gameplay if at all
9
#9
3 Frags +

Good thing that the cow mangler is banned. Such an annoying weapon

Good thing that the cow mangler is banned. Such an annoying weapon
10
#10
25 Frags +
bearodactylcow mangler is kinda dumb but i dont think allowing it to get mini crits when kritzed should really push it over the top
that scenario should never happen anyways when you can just flash a scout or other soldier with regular rockets

there's certainly an argument to be made for banning it but given the decision to allow it the past few seasons it doesn't really make sense, the new change hardly affects gameplay if at all

The point was that we admins were aware of how game changing and bullcrap Cow Mangler already was with infinite ammo in the past before the pyro update even since all that was brought up during the discussion as being the biggest complaint for it, and the fact that it still got a buff recently just made making the decision to ban it easier even though it's a very minor buff, but still being something.

[quote=bearodactyl]cow mangler is kinda dumb but i dont think allowing it to get mini crits when kritzed should really push it over the top
that scenario should never happen anyways when you can just flash a scout or other soldier with regular rockets

there's certainly an argument to be made for banning it but given the decision to allow it the past few seasons it doesn't really make sense, the new change hardly affects gameplay if at all[/quote]

The point was that we admins were aware of how game changing and bullcrap Cow Mangler already was with infinite ammo in the past before the pyro update even since all that was brought up during the discussion as being the biggest complaint for it, and the fact that it still got a buff recently just made making the decision to ban it easier even though it's a very minor buff, but still being something.
11
#11
13 Frags +
AoshiBut with the Pyro class already changing a lot as well{,} together with new Pyro weapons that haven't seen competitive play yet{,} we will keep this banned.

Commas are so underrated. I had to read this three times to figure out what it meant.
I feel like this philosophy is that of artificially creating a meta. You shouldn't be banning new weapons because the class itself has changed or because other new weapons might be OP and need playtesting first. The Dragon's Fury needs to be judged ban-worthy or not based on its own merit as a weapon, and if Jetpack+DF is OP, which to ban should be decided now, rather than let Jetpack enter in first.

And based on what you said about its longer range, same damage, and slower airblast, it's not the most broken weapon.

Edit: Yo wtf. Why is the Second Banana not mentioned?

[quote=Aoshi]But with the Pyro class already changing a lot as well[b]{,}[/b] together with new Pyro weapons that haven't seen competitive play yet[b]{,}[/b] we will keep this banned.[/quote]

Commas are so underrated. I had to read this three times to figure out what it meant.
I feel like this philosophy is that of artificially creating a meta. You shouldn't be banning new weapons because the class itself has changed or because other new weapons might be OP and need playtesting first. The Dragon's Fury needs to be judged ban-worthy or not based on its own merit as a weapon, and if Jetpack+DF is OP, which to ban should be decided now, rather than let Jetpack enter in first.

And based on what you said about its longer range, same damage, and slower airblast, it's not the most broken weapon.

Edit: Yo wtf. Why is the Second Banana not mentioned?
12
#12
20 Frags +

Rest in peace gay slowing pootis

Rest in peace gay slowing pootis
13
#13
6 Frags +

LFT 6s heavy

LFT 6s heavy
14
#14
-1 Frags +
ArguedOysterAoshiBut with the Pyro class already changing a lot as well, together with new Pyro weapons that haven't seen competitive play yet, we will keep this banned.
Commas are so underrated. I had to read this three times to figure out what it meant.

Illiteracy is a diseese.

[quote=ArguedOyster][quote=Aoshi]But with the Pyro class already changing a lot as well[b],[/b] together with new Pyro weapons that haven't seen competitive play yet[b],[/b] we will keep this banned.[/quote]

Commas are so underrated. I had to read this three times to figure out what it meant. [/quote]
Illiteracy is a diseese.
15
#15
42 Frags +

More of a blacklist than a whitelist these days ...
How come weapons aren't allowed based on the value they add to the 6v6 gamemode anymore?

I cant be the only one so frustrated by this clutter of pointless weapons being included in our competition seemingly by default

More of a blacklist than a whitelist these days ...
How come weapons aren't allowed based on the value they add to the 6v6 gamemode anymore?

I cant be the only one so frustrated by this clutter of pointless weapons being included in our competition seemingly by default
16
#16
-11 Frags +

Powerjack ban when ?

EDIT: i'm serious, it gives pyro too much mobility imo

Powerjack ban when ?

EDIT: i'm serious, it gives pyro too much mobility imo
17
#17
6 Frags +

cow mangler finally banned, now i don't need to use that annoying ass weapon

cow mangler finally banned, now i don't need to use that annoying ass weapon
18
#18
4 Frags +

fuck the cow mangler thank you

fuck the cow mangler thank you
19
#19
33 Frags +

yah but wheres the discussion about just banning the fire guy
(edit: Apart from testing weapons we also ask you to give feedback on the Pyro class as a whole)
ye ban pls i lose the will to live

yah but wheres the discussion about just banning the fire guy
(edit: Apart from testing weapons we also ask you to give feedback on the Pyro class as a whole)
ye ban pls i lose the will to live
20
#20
0 Frags +

Me gusta, only ones in testing i feel could cause discussion are BASE jumper and (maybe) bonk, depending on how their downsides will play out in practice now

Me gusta, only ones in testing i feel could cause discussion are BASE jumper and (maybe) bonk, depending on how their downsides will play out in practice now
21
#21
0 Frags +

Tbh dragon's fury should be unbanned for testing at the least. The weapon is straight garbo in comparison to any of the traditional flamers that aren't the phlog. The only valid reasoning to me is the whole inconsistent projectile visuals part, which is very relevant but eh, I don't think it would be used over stock anyway.

Tbh dragon's fury should be unbanned for testing at the least. The weapon is straight garbo in comparison to any of the traditional flamers that aren't the phlog. The only valid reasoning to me is the whole inconsistent projectile visuals part, which is very relevant but eh, I don't think it would be used over stock anyway.
22
#22
59 Frags +

why are we testing the base jumper

why are we testing the base jumper
23
#23
-1 Frags +

second banana unban?
atomizer and dragon's fury testing?
when

second banana unban?
atomizer and dragon's fury testing?
when
24
#24
23 Frags +

At this point, only game breaking items should be banned, and the goal to should be to have as few items banned as possible. After their buffs, these items may simply be "overpowered" they have not proven to be game breaking and should not be banned:

  • Natascha
  • Pretty Boys Pocket Pistol
  • Cow Mangler 5000

While it's good that a few items are being unbanned after Jungle Inferno rebalances, there were several more than just 4 previously banned items nerfed in such a way that they should also be unbanned including:

  • Atomizer (must deploy bat in order to triple jump)
  • Crit a Cola (no longer speed boosts)
  • Flying Guillotine (no longer mini-crits at long range)
  • Fist of Steel (healing rates reduced)
  • Rescue Ranger (ranged repairs consume metal)
  • Reserve Shooter (no longer mini crits on airblast)

Then there are other lingering items on the current whitelist you proposed that have either similarly not been proven to be game breaking, have been nerfed at some point in the past and never re-evaluated or were unjustly banned previously including:

  • Soda Popper (nerfed so that hype meter only builds upon damage dealt, not proven to be game breaking)
  • Mantreads (buffed for airblast resist and air control, but not proven to be game breaking)
  • Buffalo Steak Sandvich (always been banned but not proven to be game breaking)
  • Second Banana (new, not proven to be game breaking)
  • Solemn Vow (always been banned but not proven to be game breaking)
  • Vaccinator (unjustly banned before, not proven to be game breaking)
  • Jarate (unjustly banned before, not proven to be game breaking)
  • Dragon's Fury (new, not proven to be game breaking)
  • Quick Fix (nerfed to have slower build rate, not proven to be game breaking)

For things like Soda Popper, Quick Fix, Solemn Vow, and Dragon's Fury, ideally we could have some sort of testing tournaments that feature those items in order to properly evaluate them.

The only weapons that I'd say are still certainly game breaking and should remain on the ban list are:

  • Disciplinary Action (forces both teams to run it for speed to mid fights)
  • Sydney Sleeper (infinite range jarate on all bodyshots is too powerful)
  • Short Circuit (counters spam making sentries nearly unkillable)
  • Wrangler (tanks too much damage, requires too much investment to destroy sentries)
  • Mad Milk (the excessive healing comes too often especially when 4 scouts are running it)

And please don't even consider banning Pyro. Though a whitelist does it already to some extent, class banning is a much more effective method of further alienating casual players from competitive TF2.

At this point, only game breaking items should be banned, and the goal to should be to have as few items banned as possible. After their buffs, these items may simply be "overpowered" they have not proven to be game breaking and should not be banned:
[list]
[*] Natascha
[*] Pretty Boys Pocket Pistol
[*] Cow Mangler 5000
[/list]

While it's good that a few items are being unbanned after Jungle Inferno rebalances, there were several more than just 4 previously banned items nerfed in such a way that they should also be unbanned including:
[list]
[*] Atomizer (must deploy bat in order to triple jump)
[*] Crit a Cola (no longer speed boosts)
[*] Flying Guillotine (no longer mini-crits at long range)
[*] Fist of Steel (healing rates reduced)
[*] Rescue Ranger (ranged repairs consume metal)
[*] Reserve Shooter (no longer mini crits on airblast)
[/list]

Then there are other lingering items on the current whitelist you proposed that have either similarly not been proven to be game breaking, have been nerfed at some point in the past and never re-evaluated or were unjustly banned previously including:
[list]
[*] Soda Popper (nerfed so that hype meter only builds upon damage dealt, not proven to be game breaking)
[*] Mantreads (buffed for airblast resist and air control, but not proven to be game breaking)
[*] Buffalo Steak Sandvich (always been banned but not proven to be game breaking)
[*] Second Banana (new, not proven to be game breaking)
[*] Solemn Vow (always been banned but not proven to be game breaking)
[*] Vaccinator (unjustly banned before, not proven to be game breaking)
[*] Jarate (unjustly banned before, not proven to be game breaking)
[*] Dragon's Fury (new, not proven to be game breaking)
[*] Quick Fix (nerfed to have slower build rate, not proven to be game breaking)
[/list]

For things like Soda Popper, Quick Fix, Solemn Vow, and Dragon's Fury, ideally we could have some sort of testing tournaments that feature those items in order to properly evaluate them.

The only weapons that I'd say are still certainly game breaking and should remain on the ban list are:
[list]
[*] Disciplinary Action (forces both teams to run it for speed to mid fights)
[*] Sydney Sleeper (infinite range jarate on all bodyshots is too powerful)
[*] Short Circuit (counters spam making sentries nearly unkillable)
[*] Wrangler (tanks too much damage, requires too much investment to destroy sentries)
[*] Mad Milk (the excessive healing comes too often especially when 4 scouts are running it)
[/list]

And please don't even consider banning Pyro. Though a whitelist does it already to some extent, class banning is a much more effective method of further alienating casual players from competitive TF2.
25
#25
1 Frags +

As a medic main I'm looking forward to seeing the vita saw unbanned

As a medic main I'm looking forward to seeing the vita saw unbanned
26
#26
57 Frags +

Ban machina

that is all

Ban machina

that is all
27
#27
5 Frags +

As long as the crossbow is also allowed I don't think the justification for the GRU is great.

As long as the crossbow is also allowed I don't think the justification for the GRU is great.
28
#28
59 Frags +
b4nnythese items may simply be "overpowered" they have not proven to be game breaking and should not be banned:

overpowered items should be banned that's literally the point of the whitelist

[quote=b4nny]these items may simply be "overpowered" they have not proven to be game breaking and should not be banned:[/quote]
overpowered items should be banned that's literally the point of the whitelist
29
#29
-4 Frags +
springrollsBan machina

that is all

^

[quote=springrolls]Ban machina

that is all[/quote]

^
30
#30
ozfortress
13 Frags +

We may or may not have left the Second Banana out, although not confirmed. Will work with the other administrators and Aoshi will update it in the morning, if confirmed.

We may or may not have left the Second Banana out, although not confirmed. Will work with the other administrators and Aoshi will update it in the morning, if confirmed.
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