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Refresh: Gully (Prerelease thread)
31
#31
Process/Gullywash Refresh
4 Frags +

What's the old kaidus rollout? Could you link a video?

What's the old kaidus rollout? Could you link a video?
32
#32
Process/Gullywash Refresh
3 Frags +
Reero https://i.imgur.com/SlezL4X.jpg : it appears you tried to remove this hiding spot but its still possible to do albeit you are stuck surfing on it instead of being able to stand. not a fan of "nerfing"/removing imo

Read the OP, there are links to polls.

Reerohttps://i.imgur.com/d0lLdvr.png : you can stand on top of here by shutter/2nd forward spawn. Not too big of an issue but also kinda goofy

https://i.imgur.com/hrCHPrp.png : here under mid theres either a leak or a nodraw placed here that shouldn't be. I think this can cause some performance issues.

https://i.imgur.com/mSd9PkT.jpg : you can see over into mid by jumping up over the roof. You can see entities too i think cus u can see my stickies

ty, will fix

Reerohttps://i.imgur.com/fmIVVJI.jpg : not a fan of removing this hiding spot :( it was neat.

Didn't know that was a spot. Just clipped the wall how the map is clipped everywhere else, and also where it should logitcally be clipped

[quote=Reero] https://i.imgur.com/SlezL4X.jpg : it appears you tried to remove this hiding spot but its still possible to do albeit you are stuck surfing on it instead of being able to stand. not a fan of "nerfing"/removing imo[/quote]
Read the OP, there are links to polls.

[quote=Reero]https://i.imgur.com/d0lLdvr.png : you can stand on top of here by shutter/2nd forward spawn. Not too big of an issue but also kinda goofy

https://i.imgur.com/hrCHPrp.png : here under mid theres either a leak or a nodraw placed here that shouldn't be. I think this can cause some performance issues.

https://i.imgur.com/mSd9PkT.jpg : you can see over into mid by jumping up over the roof. You can see entities too i think cus u can see my stickies[/quote] ty, will fix

[quote=Reero]https://i.imgur.com/fmIVVJI.jpg : not a fan of removing this hiding spot :( it was neat.[/quote]
Didn't know that was a spot. Just clipped the wall how the map is clipped everywhere else, and also where it should logitcally be clipped
33
#33
1 Frags +

Exactly what counou said, rollout that demo is doing on current version of a map is imo perfect, it's very rewarding when you do it perflectly, while not beeing totally op.

Exactly what counou said, rollout that demo is doing on current version of a map is imo perfect, it's very rewarding when you do it perflectly, while not beeing totally op.
34
#34
4 Frags +

cant find a video of that rollout but its basically crouchdet straight from spawn like i did in the video, that rollout is very inconsistent for most of the people because you hit your head most of the times because of the roof. Now when roof is gone you can fuck up the rollout and still be faster than other demoman placing sticky on that default pillar outside spawn

edit: with this default rollout most of the demos do you get to pack at 9:46 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGBKyd0y4Ps&t=4s)

with crouchdet you get to pack at 9:48 if im correct

cant find a video of that rollout but its basically crouchdet straight from spawn like i did in the video, that rollout is very inconsistent for most of the people because you hit your head most of the times because of the roof. Now when roof is gone you can fuck up the rollout and still be faster than other demoman placing sticky on that default pillar outside spawn

edit: with this default rollout most of the demos do you get to pack at 9:46 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGBKyd0y4Ps&t=4s)

with crouchdet you get to pack at 9:48 if im correct
35
#35
4 Frags +
CollaideThis is literally possible to do with every shutter door in the entire game. If anyone has an idea how to fix this I'm willing to hear you out.

https://i.imgur.com/dnm2buY.png

you can have a unit high layer of func_clip_vphysics with the thickness of door, prevents stickies to be put down (they either bounce in front of or behind the door)

[quote=Collaide]This is literally possible to do with every shutter door in the entire game. If anyone has an idea how to fix this I'm willing to hear you out.[/quote]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/dnm2buY.png[/img]
you can have a unit high layer of func_clip_vphysics with the thickness of door, prevents stickies to be put down (they either bounce in front of or behind the door)
36
#36
Process/Gullywash Refresh
3 Frags +
Rockzhttps://i.imgur.com/dnm2buY.png
you can have a unit high layer of func_clip_vphysics with the thickness of door, prevents stickies to be put down (they either bounce in front of or behind the door)

Is this a good idea though? Because no other maps have stickies bounce off the doorframes of shutter doors as far as I know.

I could also make the shutter door thinner so you can spot the stickies more easily.

[quote=Rockz]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/dnm2buY.png[/img]
you can have a unit high layer of func_clip_vphysics with the thickness of door, prevents stickies to be put down (they either bounce in front of or behind the door)[/quote]
Is this a good idea though? Because no other maps have stickies bounce off the doorframes of shutter doors as far as I know.

I could also make the shutter door thinner so you can spot the stickies more easily.
37
#37
3 Frags +
CollaideIs this a good idea though? Because no other maps have stickies bounce off the doorframes of shutter doors as far as I know.
I could also make the shutter door thinner so you can spot the stickies more easily.

yeah the simplest solution is thinner door, but if you don't want to have stickies inside the doors, this is best thing i could think of. it also doesn't interact with player in any way, just stickies

[quote=Collaide]Is this a good idea though? Because no other maps have stickies bounce off the doorframes of shutter doors as far as I know.
I could also make the shutter door thinner so you can spot the stickies more easily.[/quote]

yeah the simplest solution is thinner door, but if you don't want to have stickies inside the doors, this is best thing i could think of. it also doesn't interact with player in any way, just stickies
38
#38
Process/Gullywash Refresh
1 Frags +
counouThe issue is that when I tested it scouts at earliest can be at big door at 9:45 (usually 9:44), by that time, a demo whos hit the old fast kaidus rollout can have layed up to 4 stickies on bigdoor already, which doesn't seem very cool imo

I did some rollout testing,

Fastest demo rollout I can do gets on the pack 9:48 (with perfect jump in spawn), with a sticky detonatable in bigdoor at 9:46/45, with the second sticky dettable in bigdoor at 9:44/43.

As for the kaidus rollout, I tried it a bunch of times. You get to the pack at the same time as my rollout (from post #14 [perfected]) it's still very hard to do, and my rollout is more consistent. If you take double fall damage on either of these rollouts, you straight up die. So even if these rollouts are easier they will be possible only for the best demomen, like you Mr Lukas. And even then I think it will be easy to mess up.

But that aside, this implicates that scouts may get hit by 1 sticky as they get to mid at 9:45 with the best spawn and rollout.

With a new fast roamer rollout (enabled by the stairclipping in main) he can get out of bigdoor at 9:46 and jump the demo. Though he has 0 rockets loaded but has time to reload one midair. If you do one rocket jump in spawn as well (if your med is nice enough to critheal you), you can get out 1> second earlier OR get out at 9:46 with a rocket loaded instead of having 0 loaded.

Unless demo expects this or airpipes the solly , it may be very hard / impossible for demo to survive. Solly rollout is p hard though I'm not sure how consistent it could be.

EDIT: The fastest possible demo rollout in bigdoor you can place a sticky on the medium pack in enemy choke at earliest 9:47, which means if the demo doing the fast rollout is slow at all he can just get instakilled in a lot of mids. Even if he gets a pack getting bombed by solly + 1 sticky taken is a death sentance.

EDIT 2:
Conclusion:
If you nail the difficult rollout you may have your first sticky out ~1.5 seconds earlier than before, but also leaving you vulnerable to demomen rolling out bigdoor or roamers. It's also easy to mess up the rollout.

[quote=counou]The issue is that when I tested it scouts at earliest can be at big door at 9:45 (usually 9:44), by that time, a demo whos hit the old fast kaidus rollout can have layed up to 4 stickies on bigdoor already, which doesn't seem very cool imo[/quote]
I did some rollout testing,

Fastest demo rollout I can do gets on the pack 9:48 (with perfect jump in spawn), with a sticky detonatable in bigdoor at 9:46/45, with the second sticky dettable in bigdoor at 9:44/43.

As for the kaidus rollout, I tried it a bunch of times. You get to the pack at the same time as my rollout (from post #14 [perfected]) it's still very hard to do, and my rollout is more consistent. If you take double fall damage on either of these rollouts, you straight up die. So even if these rollouts are easier they will be possible only for the best demomen, like you Mr Lukas. And even then I think it will be easy to mess up.

But that aside, this implicates that scouts may get hit by 1 sticky as they get to mid at 9:45 with the best spawn and rollout.

With a new fast roamer rollout (enabled by the stairclipping in main) he can get out of bigdoor at 9:46 and jump the demo. Though he has 0 rockets loaded but has time to reload one midair. If you do one rocket jump in spawn as well (if your med is nice enough to critheal you), you can get out 1> second earlier OR get out at 9:46 with a rocket loaded instead of having 0 loaded.

Unless demo expects this or airpipes the solly , it may be very hard / impossible for demo to survive. Solly rollout is p hard though I'm not sure how consistent it could be.

EDIT: The fastest possible demo rollout in bigdoor you can place a sticky on the medium pack in enemy choke at earliest 9:47, which means if the demo doing the fast rollout is slow at all he can just get instakilled in a lot of mids. Even if he gets a pack getting bombed by solly + 1 sticky taken is a death sentance.

EDIT 2:
[h]Conclusion:[/h]
If you nail the difficult rollout you may have your first sticky out ~1.5 seconds earlier than before, but also leaving you vulnerable to demomen rolling out bigdoor or roamers. It's also easy to mess up the rollout.
39
#39
5 Frags +
RockzCollaideIs this a good idea though? Because no other maps have stickies bounce off the doorframes of shutter doors as far as I know.
I could also make the shutter door thinner so you can spot the stickies more easily.

yeah the simplest solution is thinner door, but if you don't want to have stickies inside the doors, this is best thing i could think of. it also doesn't interact with player in any way, just stickies

This, however, would require every map to have the same solution, since consistency across all maps and finding a common ground is also something we would like to achieve. If every map has slightly different mechanics or quirks when you try to carry out your plan, then it is just frustrating and could be a game changer

[quote=Rockz][quote=Collaide]Is this a good idea though? Because no other maps have stickies bounce off the doorframes of shutter doors as far as I know.
I could also make the shutter door thinner so you can spot the stickies more easily.[/quote]

yeah the simplest solution is thinner door, but if you don't want to have stickies inside the doors, this is best thing i could think of. it also doesn't interact with player in any way, just stickies[/quote]

This, however, would require every map to have the same solution, since consistency across all maps and finding a common ground is also something we would like to achieve. If every map has slightly different mechanics or quirks when you try to carry out your plan, then it is just frustrating and could be a game changer
40
#40
5 Frags +
roboprodThis, however, would require every map to have the same solution, since consistency across all maps and finding a common ground is also something we would like to achieve. If every map has slightly different mechanics or quirks when you try to carry out your plan, then it is just frustrating and could be a game changer

the original question was if it's possible (which it is), but doing so isn't viable due to consistency as you said. just have shutters smaller size then stickies

[quote=roboprod]This, however, would require every map to have the same solution, since consistency across all maps and finding a common ground is also something we would like to achieve. If every map has slightly different mechanics or quirks when you try to carry out your plan, then it is just frustrating and could be a game changer[/quote]

the original question was if it's possible (which it is), but doing so isn't viable due to consistency as you said. just have shutters smaller size then stickies
41
#41
5 Frags +
CollaideAs for the kaidus rollout, I tried it a bunch of times. If you get to the pack at the same time as my rollout (from post #14) it's still very hard to do, and my rollout is more consistent. If you take double fall damage on either of these rollouts, you straight up die. So even if these rollouts are easier they will be possible only for the best demomen, like you Mr Lukas. And even then I think it will be easy to mess up.

What rollout are you talking about here?

There is the rollout workshop where kaidus talks about a rollout with a crouchdet from spawn.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/50258232?t=0h13m56s

[quote=Collaide]As for the kaidus rollout, I tried it a bunch of times. If you get to the pack at the same time as my rollout (from post #14) it's still very hard to do, and my rollout is more consistent. If you take double fall damage on either of these rollouts, you straight up die. So even if these rollouts are easier they will be possible only for the best demomen, like you Mr Lukas. And even then I think it will be easy to mess up.[/quote]

What rollout are you talking about here?

There is the rollout workshop where kaidus talks about a rollout with a crouchdet from spawn.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/50258232?t=0h13m56s
42
#42
5 Frags +
DypsilonCollaideAs for the kaidus rollout, I tried it a bunch of times. If you get to the pack at the same time as my rollout (from post #14) it's still very hard to do, and my rollout is more consistent. If you take double fall damage on either of these rollouts, you straight up die. So even if these rollouts are easier they will be possible only for the best demomen, like you Mr Lukas. And even then I think it will be easy to mess up.
What rollout are you talking about here?

There is the rollout workshop where kaidus talks about a rollout with a crouchdet from spawn.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/50258232?t=0h13m56s

Yeah thats what we're on about, with the removed ceiling its basically unfailable

[quote=Dypsilon][quote=Collaide]As for the kaidus rollout, I tried it a bunch of times. If you get to the pack at the same time as my rollout (from post #14) it's still very hard to do, and my rollout is more consistent. If you take double fall damage on either of these rollouts, you straight up die. So even if these rollouts are easier they will be possible only for the best demomen, like you Mr Lukas. And even then I think it will be easy to mess up.[/quote]

What rollout are you talking about here?

There is the rollout workshop where kaidus talks about a rollout with a crouchdet from spawn.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/50258232?t=0h13m56s[/quote]

Yeah thats what we're on about, with the removed ceiling its basically unfailable
43
#43
Process/Gullywash Refresh
0 Frags +
counouYeah thats what we're on about, with the removed ceiling its basically unfailable

oh lol I thought we were talking about some sort of airpogo on top of that

[quote=counou]
Yeah thats what we're on about, with the removed ceiling its basically unfailable[/quote]
oh lol I thought we were talking about some sort of airpogo on top of that
44
#44
2 Frags +
CollaidecounouYeah thats what we're on about, with the removed ceiling its basically unfailableoh lol I thought we were talking about some sort of airpogo on top of that

Nah, but if you did that you could probably be even faster than lukas and I tested

[quote=Collaide][quote=counou]
Yeah thats what we're on about, with the removed ceiling its basically unfailable[/quote]
oh lol I thought we were talking about some sort of airpogo on top of that[/quote]

Nah, but if you did that you could probably be even faster than lukas and I tested
45
#45
Process/Gullywash Refresh
2 Frags +
counouCollaidecounouYeah thats what we're on about, with the removed ceiling its basically unfailableoh lol I thought we were talking about some sort of airpogo on top of that
Nah, but if you did that you could probably be even faster than lukas and I tested

It's extremely difficult, but I think it may be possible.
But my jump displayed in #14 is equally fast or faster than the "kaidus rollout". The uploaded clip isn't perfect I got to the pack at 9:48 at best when trying this.

----

To summarize, jumping off the wall with a sticky pogo on balc is a bit faster but harder than the kaidus rollout. You do not have time to lay down 4 stickies in bigdoor though.

[quote=counou][quote=Collaide][quote=counou]
Yeah thats what we're on about, with the removed ceiling its basically unfailable[/quote]
oh lol I thought we were talking about some sort of airpogo on top of that[/quote]

Nah, but if you did that you could probably be even faster than lukas and I tested[/quote]
It's extremely difficult, but I think it may be possible.
But my jump displayed in #14 is equally fast or faster than the "kaidus rollout". The uploaded clip isn't perfect I got to the pack at 9:48 at best when trying this.

----

To summarize, jumping off the wall with a sticky pogo on balc is a bit faster but harder than the kaidus rollout. You do not have time to lay down 4 stickies in bigdoor though.
46
#46
Process/Gullywash Refresh
1 Frags +

Sorry if I'm posting too much here, but is there a consensus among top players? As the kaidus rollout technically was possible before this makes it basically 100% consistent and may make it harder for teams. (do not take the med speed removal into account please).

Sorry if I'm posting too much here, but is there a consensus among top players? As the kaidus rollout technically was possible before this makes it basically 100% consistent and may make it harder for teams. (do not take the med speed removal into account please).
47
#47
-7 Frags +

Not a top player but not a fan of removing the railing on launchpad on last as it made it much more holdable.

Not a top player but not a fan of removing the railing on launchpad on last as it made it much more holdable.
48
#48
7 Frags +
CollaideSorry if I'm posting too much here, but is there a consensus among top players? As the kaidus rollout technically was possible before this makes it basically 100% consistent and may make it harder for teams. (do not take the med speed removal into account please).

Demoman is already devastatingly powerful early mid. It shouldn't be 100% consistent, because a fast demoman can already get two stickies off before the pressuring scout is even able to jump up the wooden wall.

AelkyrNot a top player but not a fan of removing the railing on launchpad on last as it made it much more holdable.

We don't have any data on this but it should be quite the opposite because now you don't have to overextend as much if you want to spam a sentry from balcony.

[quote=Collaide]Sorry if I'm posting too much here, but is there a consensus among top players? As the kaidus rollout technically was possible before this makes it basically 100% consistent and may make it harder for teams. (do not take the med speed removal into account please).[/quote]
Demoman is already devastatingly powerful early mid. It shouldn't be 100% consistent, because a fast demoman can already get two stickies off before the pressuring scout is even able to jump up the wooden wall.

[quote=Aelkyr]Not a top player but not a fan of removing the railing on launchpad on last as it made it much more holdable.[/quote]
We don't have any data on this but it should be quite the opposite because now you don't have to overextend as much if you want to spam a sentry from balcony.
49
#49
-9 Frags +

is it possible to fix the ramp going up to the 2nd point so that the bison works

is it possible to fix the ramp going up to the 2nd point so that the bison works
50
#50
Process/Gullywash Refresh
1 Frags +

Cheers. I'll look into options of re-adding that part of the ceiling concrete to make rollouts the same as before / very similar. While I do, I still appreciate feedback.

Cheers. I'll look into options of re-adding that part of the ceiling concrete to make rollouts the same as before / very similar. While I do, I still appreciate feedback.
51
#51
Process/Gullywash Refresh
7 Frags +
Tholeis it possible to fix the ramp going up to the 2nd point so that the bison works

It's fixed already, you could test your concerns before commenting

[quote=Thole]is it possible to fix the ramp going up to the 2nd point so that the bison works[/quote]
It's fixed already, you could test your concerns before commenting
52
#52
Process/Gullywash Refresh
4 Frags +

https://i.imgur.com/wJcLHfz.png

this is the 5 minute solution i came up with. functionally this should leave the rollout as is on final1, but also leave more room to move around. it looks ugly though

AelkyrNot a top player but not a fan of removing the railing on launchpad on last as it made it much more holdable.

the railings are clipped so you can still stand on them!!!!! just , you can also shoot rockets thru

[img]https://i.imgur.com/wJcLHfz.png[/img]
this is the 5 minute solution i came up with. functionally this should leave the rollout as is on final1, but also leave more room to move around. it looks ugly though

[quote=Aelkyr]Not a top player but not a fan of removing the railing on launchpad on last as it made it much more holdable.[/quote]
the railings are clipped so you can still stand on them!!!!! just , you can also shoot rockets thru
53
#53
8 Frags +

i dont know how thoroughly you scroll through TFTV mr. collaide but someone posted feedback in the b4nny tweet thread by mistake you and you may miss it

https://www.teamfortress.tv/32408/favorite-b4nny-tweet/?page=15#421

i dont know how thoroughly you scroll through TFTV mr. collaide but someone posted feedback in the b4nny tweet thread by mistake you and you may miss it

https://www.teamfortress.tv/32408/favorite-b4nny-tweet/?page=15#421
54
#54
Process/Gullywash Refresh
7 Frags +

Oh sorry for missing this I will do better

Oh sorry for missing this I will do better
55
#55
3 Frags +

please add this back
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv0P7mte8H4&feature=youtu.be

please add this back
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv0P7mte8H4&feature=youtu.be
56
#56
Stream Highlights
4 Frags +
Collaidehttps://i.imgur.com/wJcLHfz.png

Woah woah woah calm down there buddy

https://i.imgur.com/rbJb7sl.png

[quote=Collaide][img]https://i.imgur.com/wJcLHfz.png[/img][/quote] Woah woah woah calm down there buddy[img]https://i.imgur.com/rbJb7sl.png[/img]
57
#57
newbie.tf
0 Frags +

hey fam, this is an old thread. post-release thread here for current discussion: https://www.teamfortress.tv/57897

hey fam, this is an old thread. post-release thread here for current discussion: https://www.teamfortress.tv/57897
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