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Refresh: Gully (Prerelease thread)
1
#1
Process/Gullywash Refresh
0 Frags +

Refresh series as you all know by now is about optimising competitive maps to the best of their ability. Process was the first map we’ve tackled due to its popularity as well as its less complicated issues that do indeed make a difference. However, for our second project, we’ve chosen something quite challenging and somewhat daunting task of streamlining & bugfixing cp_gullywash_final1.

However, before we can officially launch this map, we need your help identifying things that are missing or different. As the map was rebuilt 100% from scratch, there may be unintentional changes both visual and gameplay. Certain details may have been overlooked, therefore comment your feedback below!

There is currently a lighting bug outside the fence on 2nd but that will be fixed for the final version and I’m already aware of it.
There is a hud bug because I forgot to remove my custom hud. (Huds preloading control point icons for whatever reason get packed into your map).

You can find the download here ( cp_gullywash_f_pre1 ). The map is not up on serveme.tf yet.

Gully hiding spot polls:
#1 --- #2 --- #3

Basic changelog:

Show Content
Major things:
- All lamps are nonsolid (except the ones on the fence on 2nd).
- All railings in playable areas are now nonsolid. (Including next to spawn, and in lobby next to the pack, and also the wooden handrail on 2nd.)
- Improved clipping everywhere.
- Added blockbullets on most walls/surfaces.
- Skybox height is now the same everywhere on 2nd.
- Skybox height is now the same everywhere on the map.
- Prop door frames swapped for brush door frames.
- Two shutter props replaced with brushes.
- You can’t hold the spawn door open.
- Last ceiling is now functionally flat.
- Marked capture areas now accurately represent the control point trigger (for those “i swear i was blocking” moments)
Minor things:
- Remade the map from scratch. Aligned everything to the hammer grid.
- Added additional areaportals.
- Removed brushes of unplayable and invisible areas like behind the bigdoor shutter and inside the mid windows.
- All props and hiding spots are now mirrored.

87 +- 2 hours were spent on this release. [almost 30 of which were looking for a lighting bug]

Refresh series as you all know by now is about optimising competitive maps to the best of their ability. Process was the first map we’ve tackled due to its popularity as well as its less complicated issues that do indeed make a difference. However, for our second project, we’ve chosen something quite challenging and somewhat daunting task of streamlining & bugfixing cp_gullywash_final1.

However, before we can officially launch this map, we need your help identifying things that are missing or different. As the map was rebuilt 100% from scratch, there may be unintentional changes both visual and gameplay. Certain details may have been overlooked, therefore comment your feedback below!

[u]There is currently a lighting bug outside the fence on 2nd but that will be fixed for the final version and I’m already aware of it.[/u]
[u]There is a hud bug because I forgot to remove my custom hud.[/u] (Huds preloading control point icons for whatever reason get packed into your map).

You can find the download here ( [url=https://github.com/tom288/Refresh/raw/master/Gullywash/cp_gullywash_f_pre1.bsp]cp_gullywash_f_pre1[/url] ). The map is not up on serveme.tf yet.

Gully hiding spot polls:
[url=https://www.strawpoll.me/21252316]#1[/url] --- [url=https://www.strawpoll.me/21252322]#2[/url] --- [url=https://www.strawpoll.me/21252325]#3[/url]


[h]Basic changelog:[/h]
[spoiler][b]Major things:[/b]
- All lamps are nonsolid (except the ones on the fence on 2nd).
- All railings in playable areas are now nonsolid. (Including next to spawn, and in lobby next to the pack, and also the wooden handrail on 2nd.)
- Improved clipping everywhere.
- Added blockbullets on most walls/surfaces.
- Skybox height is now the same everywhere on 2nd.
- Skybox height is now the same everywhere on the map.
- Prop door frames swapped for brush door frames.
- Two shutter props replaced with brushes.
- You can’t hold the spawn door open.
- Last ceiling is now functionally flat.
- Marked capture areas now accurately represent the control point trigger (for those “i swear i was blocking” moments)
[b]Minor things:[/b]
- Remade the map from scratch. Aligned everything to the hammer grid.
- Added additional areaportals.
- Removed brushes of unplayable and invisible areas like behind the bigdoor shutter and inside the mid windows.
- All props and hiding spots are now mirrored.
[/spoiler]

87 +- 2 hours were spent on this release. [almost 30 of which were looking for a lighting bug]
2
#2
36 Frags +
CollaideMinor things:
-Remade the map from scratch.

oh, you

[quote=Collaide][b]Minor things:[/b]
-Remade the map from scratch.[/quote]
oh, you
3
#3
Process/Gullywash Refresh
15 Frags +

it's minor in the sense that you may not notice it

it's minor in the sense that you may not notice it
4
#4
9 Frags +

missing playerclip on red last:
red https://gyazo.com/a34957f5e316a38f0103646d13689579
blue https://gyazo.com/ba4a89c4c367d530cd893021f1ff34b2

also I get missing textures on every glass https://gyazo.com/10b006155262d7d2d4a05345fe51cfbe and the side of this brush on last https://gyazo.com/1d2348addd7844eae6b46e504b4f3a97

I didn't notice anything else but i only went through it quickly

missing playerclip on red last:
red https://gyazo.com/a34957f5e316a38f0103646d13689579
blue https://gyazo.com/ba4a89c4c367d530cd893021f1ff34b2

also I get missing textures on every glass https://gyazo.com/10b006155262d7d2d4a05345fe51cfbe and the side of this brush on last https://gyazo.com/1d2348addd7844eae6b46e504b4f3a97

I didn't notice anything else but i only went through it quickly
5
#5
Process/Gullywash Refresh
12 Frags +

it's not a texture missing, it's reflections missing. for some reason the cubemaps weren't compiled. i'll look into that.

and thanks for the other stuff!!

it's not a texture missing, it's reflections missing. for some reason the cubemaps weren't compiled. i'll look into that.

and thanks for the other stuff!!
6
#6
6 Frags +

idk if this is known or you are planning to fix but there are places under last where demo projectiles act as theyve been shot underwater, ill try to record a clip later and edit my post

idk if this is known or you are planning to fix but there are places under last where demo projectiles act as theyve been shot underwater, ill try to record a clip later and edit my post
7
#7
4 Frags +

Will be epic, but if u delete a single sticky trap ur a dead man

Will be epic, but if u delete a single sticky trap ur a dead man
8
#8
Process/Gullywash Refresh
0 Frags +
taviidk if this is known or you are planning to fix but there are places under last where demo projectiles act as theyve been shot underwater, ill try to record a clip later and edit my post

on this version?

[quote=tavi]idk if this is known or you are planning to fix but there are places under last where demo projectiles act as theyve been shot underwater, ill try to record a clip later and edit my post[/quote]
on this version?
9
#9
Process/Gullywash Refresh
12 Frags +
counouWill be epic, but if u delete a single sticky trap ur a dead man

jokes on you im dead inside

[quote=counou]Will be epic, but if u delete a single sticky trap ur a dead man[/quote]
jokes on you im dead inside
10
#10
19 Frags +

this is epic stuff collaide keep it up bro *brofists u*

this is epic stuff collaide keep it up bro *brofists u*
11
#11
Process/Gullywash Refresh
13 Frags +
Brolythis is epic stuff collaide keep it up bro *brofists u*

thank's BRO, Love You (see what I did there ;] )

[quote=Broly]this is epic stuff collaide keep it up bro *brofists u*[/quote]
thank's BRO, Love You (see what I did there ;] )
12
#12
13 Frags +
CollaideBrolythis is epic stuff collaide keep it up bro *brofists u*thank's BRO, Love You (see what I did there ;] )

WOW.I saw what you Did there but Im not going to say because I want everyone Else to find out for themselves. it's healthy to use Your Brain every once in a while. Love You Too.

[quote=Collaide][quote=Broly]this is epic stuff collaide keep it up bro *brofists u*[/quote]
thank's BRO, Love You (see what I did there ;] )[/quote]
WOW.I saw what you Did there but Im not going to say because I want everyone Else to find out for themselves. it's healthy to use Your Brain every once in a while. Love You Too.
13
#13
2 Frags +

Don't think this really matters but this cheese trap doesn't work anymore.
https://imgur.com/a/cQSb7Dz

Don't think this really matters but this cheese trap doesn't work anymore.
https://imgur.com/a/cQSb7Dz
14
#14
Process/Gullywash Refresh
6 Frags +

didn't realize the implications fully until now. this is now possible:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtHJKWeQ-S8

it's kinda hard and i did it poorly but its possible. i also think it's possible to manage if you do an airpogo from left spawn door...

weeb_whackerDon't think this really matters but this cheese trap doesn't work anymore.
https://imgur.com/a/cQSb7Dz

Didn't even know that was possible on the old gully. But yeah, it's not possible anymore.

didn't realize the implications fully until now. this is now possible:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtHJKWeQ-S8[/youtube]
it's kinda hard and i did it poorly but its possible. i also think it's possible to manage if you do an airpogo from left spawn door...

[quote=weeb_whacker]Don't think this really matters but this cheese trap doesn't work anymore.
https://imgur.com/a/cQSb7Dz[/quote]
Didn't even know that was possible on the old gully. But yeah, it's not possible anymore.
15
#15
whitelist.tf
-10 Frags +

Did the hiding stickies in the shutter roller on top left last get fixed yet?

And suggestion for an improvement to prevent spawn camping the forward spawn on 2nd, allow for an alternative exit to lobby, perhaps something similar for the mid one to exit in dropdown.

Did the hiding stickies in the shutter roller on top left last get fixed yet?

And suggestion for an improvement to prevent spawn camping the forward spawn on 2nd, allow for an alternative exit to lobby, perhaps something similar for the mid one to exit in dropdown.
16
#16
Process/Gullywash Refresh
8 Frags +
WiethoofdDid the hiding stickies in the shutter roller on top left last get fixed yet?

most things are fixed, and yes that is one of them

WiethoofdAnd suggestion for an improvement to prevent spawn camping the forward spawn on 2nd, allow for an alternative exit to lobby, perhaps something similar for the mid one to exit in dropdown.

Personally, I think both mid and 2nd forward spawns should be moved for various reasons.

For this initial realease however, that type of gameplay changes have not been considered, and will not be done. It is not impossible they will happen later.

[quote=Wiethoofd]Did the hiding stickies in the shutter roller on top left last get fixed yet?[/quote]
most things are fixed, and yes that is one of them

[quote=Wiethoofd]And suggestion for an improvement to prevent spawn camping the forward spawn on 2nd, allow for an alternative exit to lobby, perhaps something similar for the mid one to exit in dropdown.[/quote]
Personally, I think both mid and 2nd forward spawns should be moved for various reasons.

For this initial realease however, that type of gameplay changes have not been considered, and will not be done. It is not impossible they will happen later.
17
#17
15 Frags +

Forward spawns should be easy to camp since players can just back spawn imo

Forward spawns should be easy to camp since players can just back spawn imo
18
#18
0 Frags +
Collaidetaviidk if this is known or you are planning to fix but there are places under last where demo projectiles act as theyve been shot underwater, ill try to record a clip later and edit my poston this version?

i was talking about the original version, i checked on your version and it seems to be fixed

the bug for anyone wondering: https://youtu.be/Y5q0eMyieZ0

[quote=Collaide][quote=tavi]idk if this is known or you are planning to fix but there are places under last where demo projectiles act as theyve been shot underwater, ill try to record a clip later and edit my post[/quote]
on this version?[/quote]

i was talking about the original version, i checked on your version and it seems to be fixed

the bug for anyone wondering: https://youtu.be/Y5q0eMyieZ0
19
#19
1 Frags +

idk if this was intentional but you removed the hiding spot above choke (the one where you stood on a tiny roof higher up now you only slide)

edit:nvm im dumb lmao

[s]idk if this was intentional but you removed the hiding spot above choke (the one where you stood on a tiny roof higher up now you only slide)
[/s]

edit:nvm im dumb lmao
20
#20
Process/Gullywash Refresh
5 Frags +
ImperdiusForward spawns should be easy to camp since players can just back spawn imo

Yeah but the issue about them is not that, it's that sniper is rly good in both of them + mid one has the shutter blocking movement above.

[quote=Imperdius]Forward spawns should be easy to camp since players can just back spawn imo[/quote]
Yeah but the issue about them is not that, it's that sniper is rly good in both of them + mid one has the shutter blocking movement above.
21
#21
2 Frags +

Small thing but there's the area above elbow/banana that you could stand on, and previously soldiers could taunt kill through the floor with it. Not sure if it's a spot that should be removed or kept, but it still exists so it's probably worth bringing up

Small thing but there's the area above elbow/banana that you could stand on, and previously soldiers could taunt kill through the floor with it. Not sure if it's a spot that should be removed or kept, but it still exists so it's probably worth bringing up
22
#22
Process/Gullywash Refresh
4 Frags +

I am aware of that spot, and yes it still exists

I am aware of that spot, and yes it still exists
23
#23
-10 Frags +
CollaideImperdiusForward spawns should be easy to camp since players can just back spawn imoYeah but the issue about them is not that, it's that sniper is rly good in both of them + mid one has the shutter blocking movement above.

but why would that mean we should add another exit?

[quote=Collaide][quote=Imperdius]Forward spawns should be easy to camp since players can just back spawn imo[/quote]
Yeah but the issue about them is not that, it's that sniper is rly good in both of them + mid one has the shutter blocking movement above.[/quote]
but why would that mean we should add another exit?
24
#24
Process/Gullywash Refresh
8 Frags +

I never said that

I never said that
25
#25
-6 Frags +

Great work on both maps so far!

Small thing, if you start working out on snakewater do us a favor and just delete whole map.

Great work on both maps so far!

Small thing, if you start working out on snakewater do us a favor and just delete whole map.
26
#26
9 Frags +

you made demoman class on gully mid even more powerful with clearing roof on last/balcony, now everyone can directly jump from spawndoor and be faster on mid (old kaido rollout) i think this change is going to hurt alot with no med scout speed. video for showcase - https://streamable.com/dfbyrf

also i think this is gonna cause some last push problems - https://streamable.com/pwq4o2

why did this thing got removed? https://ctrlv.cz/shots/2020/11/11/HwTp.png - was pretty good for holding last because you get frag on that trap almost all the time, i dont see any point in removing that, dont think it caused any problems there.

you made demoman class on gully mid even more powerful with clearing roof on last/balcony, now everyone can directly jump from spawndoor and be faster on mid (old kaido rollout) i think this change is going to hurt alot with no med scout speed. video for showcase - https://streamable.com/dfbyrf

also i think this is gonna cause some last push problems - https://streamable.com/pwq4o2

why did this thing got removed? https://ctrlv.cz/shots/2020/11/11/HwTp.png - was pretty good for holding last because you get frag on that trap almost all the time, i dont see any point in removing that, dont think it caused any problems there.
27
#27
6 Frags +

Overall, the clipping improvements are great, especially in lobby. Makes rolling out lower a lot less of a pain.

https://i.imgur.com/d0lLdvr.png : you can stand on top of here by shutter/2nd forward spawn. Not too big of an issue but also kinda goofy

https://i.imgur.com/hrCHPrp.png : here under mid theres either a leak or a nodraw placed here that shouldn't be. I think this can cause some performance issues.

https://i.imgur.com/fmIVVJI.jpg : not a fan of removing this hiding spot :( it was neat.

https://i.imgur.com/SlezL4X.jpg : it appears you tried to remove this hiding spot but its still possible to do albeit you are stuck surfing on it instead of being able to stand. not a fan of "nerfing"/removing imo

https://i.imgur.com/mSd9PkT.jpg : you can see over into mid by jumping up over the roof. You can see entities too i think cus u can see my stickies

Overall, the clipping improvements are great, especially in lobby. Makes rolling out lower a lot less of a pain.

https://i.imgur.com/d0lLdvr.png : you can stand on top of here by shutter/2nd forward spawn. Not too big of an issue but also kinda goofy

https://i.imgur.com/hrCHPrp.png : here under mid theres either a leak or a nodraw placed here that shouldn't be. I think this can cause some performance issues.

https://i.imgur.com/fmIVVJI.jpg : not a fan of removing this hiding spot :( it was neat.

https://i.imgur.com/SlezL4X.jpg : it appears you tried to remove this hiding spot but its still possible to do albeit you are stuck surfing on it instead of being able to stand. not a fan of "nerfing"/removing imo

https://i.imgur.com/mSd9PkT.jpg : you can see over into mid by jumping up over the roof. You can see entities too i think cus u can see my stickies
28
#28
Process/Gullywash Refresh
2 Frags +
wonszuGreat work on both maps so far!

Small thing, if you start working out on snakewater do us a favor and just delete whole map.

I get the snake thing is a joke but chojje (the mapmaker) has been willing to fix issues in the past, so we might actually be able to contact him if we have any issues.

[quote=wonszu]Great work on both maps so far!

Small thing, if you start working out on snakewater do us a favor and just delete whole map.[/quote]

I get the snake thing is a joke but chojje (the mapmaker) has been willing to fix issues in the past, so we might actually be able to contact him if we have any issues.
29
#29
Process/Gullywash Refresh
1 Frags +
LUKASTANKalso i think this is gonna cause some last push problems - https://streamable.com/pwq4o2

This is literally possible to do with every shutter door in the entire game. If anyone has an idea how to fix this I'm willing to hear you out.

LUKASTANKyou made demoman class on gully mid even more powerful with clearing roof on last/balcony, now everyone can directly jump from spawndoor and be faster on mid (old kaido rollout) i think this change is going to hurt alot with no med scout speed. video for showcase - https://streamable.com/dfbyrf

why did this thing got removed? https://ctrlv.cz/shots/2020/11/11/HwTp.png - was pretty good for holding last because you get frag on that trap almost all the time, i dont see any point in removing that, dont think it caused any problems there.

Ultimately both of these things were removed because they hinder aerial movement. As I mentioned in post #14 I did not fully realize the implications of the rollout, and I also posted a video showing that it's possible for good demo jumpers to never touch the ground and land in the lobby shutter.

I get the concerns about med speed, but, it looks like the scout med speed isn't even confirmed to be here next season so I think we should wait with that.

I think the positive impacts this has on aerial movement in river/last/lobby outweighs any potential concerns (& stickytraps). What to you guys think?

[quote=LUKASTANK]also i think this is gonna cause some last push problems - https://streamable.com/pwq4o2[/quote]
This is literally possible to do with every shutter door in the entire game. If anyone has an idea how to fix this I'm willing to hear you out.

[quote=LUKASTANK]you made demoman class on gully mid even more powerful with clearing roof on last/balcony, now everyone can directly jump from spawndoor and be faster on mid (old kaido rollout) i think this change is going to hurt alot with no med scout speed. video for showcase - https://streamable.com/dfbyrf

why did this thing got removed? https://ctrlv.cz/shots/2020/11/11/HwTp.png - was pretty good for holding last because you get frag on that trap almost all the time, i dont see any point in removing that, dont think it caused any problems there.[/quote]

Ultimately both of these things were removed because they hinder aerial movement. As I mentioned in post #14 I did not fully realize the implications of the rollout, and I also posted a video showing that it's possible for good demo jumpers to never touch the ground and land in the lobby shutter.

I get the concerns about med speed, but, it looks like the scout med speed isn't even confirmed to be here next season so I think we should wait with that.

I think the positive impacts this has on aerial movement in river/last/lobby outweighs any potential concerns (& stickytraps). What to you guys think?
30
#30
7 Frags +
CollaideLUKASTANKalso i think this is gonna cause some last push problems - https://streamable.com/pwq4o2This is literally possible to do with every shutter door in the entire game. If anyone has an idea how to fix this I'm willing to hear you out.
LUKASTANKyou made demoman class on gully mid even more powerful with clearing roof on last/balcony, now everyone can directly jump from spawndoor and be faster on mid (old kaido rollout) i think this change is going to hurt alot with no med scout speed. video for showcase - https://streamable.com/dfbyrf

why did this thing got removed? https://ctrlv.cz/shots/2020/11/11/HwTp.png - was pretty good for holding last because you get frag on that trap almost all the time, i dont see any point in removing that, dont think it caused any problems there.

Ultimately both of these things were removed because they hinder aerial movement. As I mentioned in post #14 I did not fully realize the implications of the rollout, and I also posted a video showing that it's possible for good demo jumpers to never touch the ground and land in the lobby shutter.

I get the concerns about med speed, but, it looks like the scout med speed isn't even confirmed to be here next season so I think we should wait with that.

I think the positive impacts this has on aerial movement in river/last/lobby outweighs any potential concerns (& stickytraps). What to you guys think?

The issue is that when I tested it scouts at earliest can be at big door at 9:45 (usually 9:44), by that time, a demo whos hit the old fast kaidus rollout can have layed up to 4 stickies on bigdoor already, which doesn't seem very cool imo

[quote=Collaide][quote=LUKASTANK]also i think this is gonna cause some last push problems - https://streamable.com/pwq4o2[/quote]
This is literally possible to do with every shutter door in the entire game. If anyone has an idea how to fix this I'm willing to hear you out.

[quote=LUKASTANK]you made demoman class on gully mid even more powerful with clearing roof on last/balcony, now everyone can directly jump from spawndoor and be faster on mid (old kaido rollout) i think this change is going to hurt alot with no med scout speed. video for showcase - https://streamable.com/dfbyrf

why did this thing got removed? https://ctrlv.cz/shots/2020/11/11/HwTp.png - was pretty good for holding last because you get frag on that trap almost all the time, i dont see any point in removing that, dont think it caused any problems there.[/quote]

Ultimately both of these things were removed because they hinder aerial movement. As I mentioned in post #14 I did not fully realize the implications of the rollout, and I also posted a video showing that it's possible for good demo jumpers to never touch the ground and land in the lobby shutter.

I get the concerns about med speed, but, it looks like the scout med speed isn't even confirmed to be here next season so I think we should wait with that.

I think the positive impacts this has on aerial movement in river/last/lobby outweighs any potential concerns (& stickytraps). What to you guys think?[/quote]

The issue is that when I tested it scouts at earliest can be at big door at 9:45 (usually 9:44), by that time, a demo whos hit the old fast kaidus rollout can have layed up to 4 stickies on bigdoor already, which doesn't seem very cool imo
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