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Define your anti-sandbagging rules
1
#1
0 Frags +

Talking about Main and under here. Restrictions should be experience based. If you played played main last season and are playing intermediate this season you are sandbagging. If you pounded in your first season of sixes, move up one division and are still pounding, you are not sandbagging. If you have the same amount of sixes experience as your competition, it is fair. If you have more experience and played at a higher level than where you are now, then it's not fair. It's that fucking simple. It's not hard to go from open to main in three seasons. If you feel like you need to go down a division, then you're shit at the game. You don't get to go down and play less experienced competition, you get to lose and be a hardstuck shitter. If you're competition has the same amount of experience, it's fair, no matter how much better you are. If you're a shitter who can only compete with against less experienced players, it's not fair.

Meanwhile we have the rgl admins basing restrictions off logs. My teams pocket scout with one season of open sixes experience got restricted in intermediate because he does 300dpm... Meanwhile the first place IM team has two shitters who played main last season.

Make Main and under experience based and we will actually see who the good players are. The high level teams will consist of players who improve fast and move up each season. It would be a lot more interesting. Results wont be skewed by retards like danny o who get to play in open after 7 seasons/3 years of sixes experience in UGC.

Talking about Main and under here. Restrictions should be experience based. If you played played main last season and are playing intermediate this season you are sandbagging. If you pounded in your first season of sixes, move up one division and are still pounding, you are not sandbagging. If you have the same amount of sixes experience as your competition, it is fair. If you have more experience and played at a higher level than where you are now, then it's not fair. It's that fucking simple. It's not hard to go from open to main in three seasons. If you feel like you need to go down a division, then you're shit at the game. You don't get to go down and play less experienced competition, you get to lose and be a hardstuck shitter. If you're competition has the same amount of experience, it's fair, no matter how much better you are. If you're a shitter who can only compete with against less experienced players, it's not fair.

Meanwhile we have the rgl admins basing restrictions off logs. My teams pocket scout with one season of open sixes experience got restricted in intermediate because he does 300dpm... Meanwhile the first place IM team has two shitters who played main last season.

Make Main and under experience based and we will actually see who the good players are. The high level teams will consist of players who improve fast and move up each season. It would be a lot more interesting. Results wont be skewed by retards like danny o who get to play in open after 7 seasons/3 years of sixes experience in UGC.
2
#2
72 Frags +

great thread, didn’t read

great thread, didn’t read
3
#3
-5 Frags +

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzpndHtdl9A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzpndHtdl9A
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#4
38 Frags +

Dude i'm so fucking shit at the game the average mid open player would slam dunk me, yet with what you're saying if i started playing again i wouldn't be allowed to play scout in open.

Dude i'm so fucking shit at the game the average mid open player would slam dunk me, yet with what you're saying if i started playing again i wouldn't be allowed to play scout in open.
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#5
22 Frags +

Restrictions are really bad in RGL but your post is pretty dumb ngl...

Restrictions are really bad in RGL but your post is pretty dumb ngl...
6
#6
2 Frags +

https://streamable.com/3307r8

https://streamable.com/3307r8
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#7
13 Frags +

By the decree of Sigmund Foo all sand baggers shall henceforth be chained to a wall and castrated for their crimes.

By the decree of Sigmund Foo all sand baggers shall henceforth be chained to a wall and castrated for their crimes.
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#8
35 Frags +

thought title said anti-sandblast at first and was less interested after I realized what it actually said

thought title said anti-sandblast at first and was less interested after I realized what it actually said
9
#9
-1 Frags +

bruh

bruh
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#10
1 Frags +

you know eventually you are gonna end up with 1 division having 100% of the players because you think no team should ever be relegated u moron

you know eventually you are gonna end up with 1 division having 100% of the players because you think no team should ever be relegated u moron
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#11
-1 Frags +

Just another thread trying to dethrone b4nny

Just another thread trying to dethrone b4nny
12
#12
1 Frags +

why do we even have this many divisions in RGL. adding newcomer was a good idea but like i feel theres a problem when theres a total of 50 teams in open and 7 in div1

why do we even have this many divisions in RGL. adding newcomer was a good idea but like i feel theres a problem when theres a total of 50 teams in open and 7 in div1
13
#13
13 Frags +
illyawhy do we even have this many divisions in RGL. adding newcomer was a good idea but like i feel theres a problem when theres a total of 50 teams in open and 7 in div1

higher divisions are smaller because there are less people capable of playing at that skill level

im sure if there were 50 div1 level teams they would make a 50 team div1 but there arent

people on tftv are way more weighted towards invite and d1 players so we may not realize this but amateur and newcomer have more teams than the rest of the league combined

[quote=illya]why do we even have this many divisions in RGL. adding newcomer was a good idea but like i feel theres a problem when theres a total of 50 teams in open and 7 in div1[/quote]
higher divisions are smaller because there are less people capable of playing at that skill level

im sure if there were 50 div1 level teams they would make a 50 team div1 but there arent

people on tftv are way more weighted towards invite and d1 players so we may not realize this but amateur and newcomer have more teams than the rest of the league combined
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#14
-3 Frags +

ok

ok
15
#15
6 Frags +

two players on your team were rostered in main last season

two players on your team were rostered in main last season
16
#16
4 Frags +

So my friend, I get that the point of this topic is about sandbagging and rules being unclear.

I understand it is not very fun to login and play TF2 and get smashed by experienced/better players. I get that, however I do want to mention one specific thing on the topic of Sandbagging. As a concept it was born out of a massive desire from people in the community complaining about losing because "This team had a Higher level Scout".

This is a competitive league, we're playing competitive games, the objective of the game is to win, the reason teams might sign up is ultimately, to win. Nobody signs up to lose. Some people may care more about having fun, having close games than actually challenging your potential to be the best player in the division or the best team, I do not have any issue with this, just that if you think a league should be designed specifically to prevent sandbagging then you should just not play competitive TF2 and play in house PUGs or Lobbies.

There can only be so many teams in the Top divisions, I know I have spent a ton of time in the Top Divisions and a ton of time just outside it, plenty of times there have been players good enough to play at the top level within the right structure in 1 or 2 divisions lower, but these players prioritised fun over competition, but they are not allowed to compete at a lower level because they are "Too good?".

Leagues made moves to stop sandbagging specifically, to be honest I personally am astounded people sign up to competitive gaming leagues and not want to play against the best. I was (and still am) a Middie, trying to be the best I can be, I used to sign up to Cups and play highest level we were allowed because I wanted to play better players and improve.

Sandbagging is an overblown issue made up by people who are not good at the game and have no desire to improve, they just don't enjoy losing. Well guess what, that's gaming, nobody likes losing, I hated playing Sev7n most because they toasted us most the times we played, we all want close games and if you're not good enough, you'll get toasted - but if you sign up to a competitive league and don't expect to play against better players then you're living in a fantasy world. Tell me what is the point of competitive TF2 when people don't want to compete but rather play vs someone they know they can beat. Everyone can be beaten if you try hard enough, people who complain about it I bet you a sum of money they don't work as hard to be as good as the person crushing them in the game. I bet they don't sit there studying Demos of better teams, seeing what they do that makes them better. I'd actually rather these people don't even play the game, yes the game has been slowly shrinking but when I watch a TF2 game it's still of a very high standard mechanically, even if the scene is about 4x smaller than it was back in 2010, it's a ton better. Understand if you sign up to play in a league, you're signing up to get smashed. I knew that everytime I registered my team, I know a thing or two about being wrecked 5-0 in 10 minutes.

I am not advocating let Top level players go into Open and win every game 5-0 in 6 minutes. There should be measures in place to prevent the NEW players from being purposely targetted by higher skill groups that prefer to just roll worse players than test themselves competitively. At some point though, as a "New player" you got to climb and test yourself. You are NEW until you play your first game, then you're no longer new, simple as this. Also it's obvious but you should not allow a much better team to play together a skill level lower when the previous season they were doing well at a skill level above, these are common sense rules - However if you did allow such a thing, it has to be because there are so many good teams at a High level already, it is a great opportunity for the lower level teams to play the best - You only become better when you play against better, it's a rare opportunity.

But in the case of 1 former Invite or Premiership player off-classing isn't the same as a team delibrately going down. What this does will create a sort of economy of free agents, people can't drop down a level to find a new team to grow with because they're too good but cannot get on another team. Or force teams to disband before the season even starts.

Somewhere everyone forgot what they were actually doing was playing competitive TF2. I am glad I don't play anymore, but if I did, I have more experience than almost every player on ETF2L, even at a high level and if I played Demoman tomorrow in Div 3, majority, if not all of the players would be better than me. Experience isn't an edge, otherwise Pele and Maradona would still be playing football.

So my friend, I get that the point of this topic is about sandbagging and rules being unclear.

I understand it is not very fun to login and play TF2 and get smashed by experienced/better players. I get that, however I do want to mention one specific thing on the topic of Sandbagging. As a concept it was born out of a massive desire from people in the community complaining about losing because "This team had a Higher level Scout".

This is a competitive league, we're playing competitive games, the objective of the game is to win, the reason teams might sign up is ultimately, to win. Nobody signs up to lose. Some people may care more about having fun, having close games than actually challenging your potential to be the best player in the division or the best team, I do not have any issue with this, just that if you think a league should be designed specifically to prevent sandbagging then you should just not play competitive TF2 and play in house PUGs or Lobbies.

There can only be so many teams in the Top divisions, I know I have spent a ton of time in the Top Divisions and a ton of time just outside it, plenty of times there have been players good enough to play at the top level within the right structure in 1 or 2 divisions lower, but these players prioritised fun over competition, but they are not allowed to compete at a lower level because they are "Too good?".

Leagues made moves to stop sandbagging specifically, to be honest I personally am astounded people sign up to competitive gaming leagues and not want to play against the best. I was (and still am) a Middie, trying to be the best I can be, I used to sign up to Cups and play highest level we were allowed because I wanted to play better players and improve.

Sandbagging is an overblown issue made up by people who are not good at the game and have no desire to improve, they just don't enjoy losing. Well guess what, that's gaming, nobody likes losing, I hated playing Sev7n most because they toasted us most the times we played, we all want close games and if you're not good enough, you'll get toasted - but if you sign up to a competitive league and don't expect to play against better players then you're living in a fantasy world. Tell me what is the point of competitive TF2 when people don't want to compete but rather play vs someone they know they can beat. Everyone can be beaten if you try hard enough, people who complain about it I bet you a sum of money they don't work as hard to be as good as the person crushing them in the game. I bet they don't sit there studying Demos of better teams, seeing what they do that makes them better. I'd actually rather these people don't even play the game, yes the game has been slowly shrinking but when I watch a TF2 game it's still of a very high standard mechanically, even if the scene is about 4x smaller than it was back in 2010, it's a ton better. Understand if you sign up to play in a league, you're signing up to get smashed. I knew that everytime I registered my team, I know a thing or two about being wrecked 5-0 in 10 minutes.

I am not advocating let Top level players go into Open and win every game 5-0 in 6 minutes. There should be measures in place to prevent the NEW players from being purposely targetted by higher skill groups that prefer to just roll worse players than test themselves competitively. At some point though, as a "New player" you got to climb and test yourself. You are NEW until you play your first game, then you're no longer new, simple as this. Also it's obvious but you should not allow a much better team to play together a skill level lower when the previous season they were doing well at a skill level above, these are common sense rules - However if you did allow such a thing, it has to be because there are so many good teams at a High level already, it is a great opportunity for the lower level teams to play the best - You only become better when you play against better, it's a rare opportunity.

But in the case of 1 former Invite or Premiership player off-classing isn't the same as a team delibrately going down. What this does will create a sort of economy of free agents, people can't drop down a level to find a new team to grow with because they're too good but cannot get on another team. Or force teams to disband before the season even starts.

Somewhere everyone forgot what they were actually doing was playing competitive TF2. I am glad I don't play anymore, but if I did, I have more experience than almost every player on ETF2L, even at a high level and if I played Demoman tomorrow in Div 3, majority, if not all of the players would be better than me. Experience isn't an edge, otherwise Pele and Maradona would still be playing football.
17
#17
7 Frags +

if u think rgl sandbagging is an issue then you really would've hated esea. I had to play john milter in playoffs my first 2 seasons in open but I didn't make threads crying about it. Realize that these players are better not simply because they "aim good" but because they make smarter actions. Try to actually improve yourself against good competition, and don't assume everyone is sandbagging because they're bad, some people just want to take the game less seriously or maybe play another class, just chill out and have fun when you play.

if u think rgl sandbagging is an issue then you really would've hated esea. I had to play john milter in playoffs my first 2 seasons in open but I didn't make threads crying about it. Realize that these players are better not simply because they "aim good" but because they make smarter actions. Try to actually improve yourself against good competition, and don't assume everyone is sandbagging because they're bad, some people just want to take the game less seriously or maybe play another class, just chill out and have fun when you play.
18
#18
9 Frags +

https://twitter.com/hot666boy420/status/1320253055292510208?s=20

https://twitter.com/hot666boy420/status/1320253055292510208?s=20
19
#19
2 Frags +

In this thread: people who havent had to worry seriously about sandbaggers in years. Right now this thread is on the tier of young sanity arguing that straight up cheating should be allowed because it doesnt affect real life

hildrethThere should be measures in place to prevent the NEW players from being purposely targetted by higher skill groups

I disagree with 99% of what you said, but I need to pick on this specifically. Because what the fuck does this mean? Targetted? If they're IN THE DIV, they WILL play shitty teams. If the argument is that sandbagging isn't an issue--then there aren't good teams in low divs. It's such a black and white issue that it hurts my head trying to understand your overcomplication of it. Idk, maybe I'm just a moron. But then you say that sandbagging is a great opportunity for bad teams to get good, so I get the sense you're being disingenuous anyway. That's what scrims are for. Leagues exist to promote competition, not steamrolls.

hildrethI was (and still am) a Middie

... You have 3 seasons in prem. Lol ok

ziamangryif u think rgl sandbagging is an issue then you really would've hated esea

Well... Yeah, that was one of the mountain of reasons ESEA was complete trash. They wanted big div sizes, not good competition.

In this thread: people who havent had to worry seriously about sandbaggers in years. Right now this thread is on the tier of young sanity arguing that straight up cheating should be allowed because it doesnt affect real life
[quote=hildreth]There should be measures in place to prevent the NEW players from being purposely targetted by higher skill groups [/quote]
I disagree with 99% of what you said, but I need to pick on this specifically. Because what the fuck does this mean? Targetted? If they're IN THE DIV, they WILL play shitty teams. If the argument is that sandbagging isn't an issue--then there aren't good teams in low divs. It's such a black and white issue that it hurts my head trying to understand your overcomplication of it. Idk, maybe I'm just a moron. But then you say that sandbagging is a great opportunity for bad teams to get good, so I get the sense you're being disingenuous anyway. That's what scrims are for. Leagues exist to promote competition, not steamrolls.

[quote=hildreth]I was (and still am) a Middie[/quote]
... You have 3 seasons in prem. Lol ok

[quote=ziamangry]if u think rgl sandbagging is an issue then you really would've hated esea[/quote]
Well... Yeah, that was one of the mountain of reasons ESEA was complete trash. They wanted big div sizes, not good competition.
20
#20
1 Frags +
Hildreth -- snip --

Hard agree. There should be common sense measures to prevent extreme sandbagging (stack of prem/invite players in a lower div, top prem player in open etc) but no need to go out of our way to eliminate every single case of some potential sandbagging. This is competitive tf2 after all.

+ If you are a new (maybe young?) player, trust me u'll be better than all sandbaggers within 6 months tops they're usually boomers and aren't very good

[quote=Hildreth] -- snip -- [/quote]

Hard agree. There should be common sense measures to prevent extreme sandbagging (stack of prem/invite players in a lower div, top prem player in open etc) but no need to go out of our way to eliminate every single case of some potential sandbagging. This is competitive tf2 after all.

+ If you are a new (maybe young?) player, trust me u'll be better than all sandbaggers within 6 months tops they're usually boomers and aren't very good
21
#21
7 Frags +

https://twitter.com/NURBEYYY/status/1320277343169105923?s=20

he can't keep getting away with this

https://twitter.com/NURBEYYY/status/1320277343169105923?s=20

he can't keep getting away with this
22
#22
18 Frags +

hows nurbey allowed to play

hows nurbey allowed to play
23
#23
11 Frags +
Jackawahttps://twitter.com/NURBEYYY/status/1320277343169105923?s=20

he can't keep getting away with this

yeah who cares about nursey playing

we should be going after the ppl who are still willingly asking them to both play and to review their demos (LOL!)

[quote=Jackawa]https://twitter.com/NURBEYYY/status/1320277343169105923?s=20

he can't keep getting away with this[/quote]
yeah who cares about nursey playing

we should be going after the ppl who are still willingly asking them to both play and to review their demos (LOL!)
24
#24
-8 Frags +
scratchhwe should be going after the ppl who are still willingly asking them to both play and to review their demos (LOL!)

let me just call up the other high invite players that have competed at international lans willing to review demos

[quote=scratchh]
we should be going after the ppl who are still willingly asking them to both play and to review their demos (LOL!)[/quote]
let me just call up the other high invite players that have competed at international lans willing to review demos
25
#25
12 Frags +

i liked playing against sandbaggers when i was new personally. its ok if you dont like it urself but its not something thats inarguably a bad thing for the league, id argue rgl would be in a better place player wise if the sandbagging rules were loosened

i liked playing against sandbaggers when i was new personally. its ok if you dont like it urself but its not something thats inarguably a bad thing for the league, id argue rgl would be in a better place player wise if the sandbagging rules were loosened
26
#26
40 Frags +

zoomers haven't gotten milter'd and thats a problem.

zoomers haven't gotten milter'd and thats a problem.
27
#27
16 Frags +

i dont rly think low level sandbagging is a big problem (a lot of the ppl "sandbagging" in the lower divions are actually washed/were never good and if u actually improve you can beat them). I think rgl is doing a fine job of not letting the degen sandbagging of esea open happen where like 3-4 high im/ invite level players would play on one team and tbh i think thats all they need to do

they could probably loosen the restrictions on div1 since thats supposed to be the proving ground for invite but tbh most of the ppl restricted could have just made an invite team if they didnt wanna offclass

i dont rly think low level sandbagging is a big problem (a lot of the ppl "sandbagging" in the lower divions are actually washed/were never good and if u actually improve you can beat them). I think rgl is doing a fine job of not letting the degen sandbagging of esea open happen where like 3-4 high im/ invite level players would play on one team and tbh i think thats all they need to do

they could probably loosen the restrictions on div1 since thats supposed to be the proving ground for invite but tbh most of the ppl restricted could have just made an invite team if they didnt wanna offclass
28
#28
0 Frags +
Nathani dont rly think low level sandbagging is a big problem

I think rgls smaller divs really helped with that compared to how wide the skill gap was in esea open. I agree about the div1 stuff too

[quote=Nathan]i dont rly think low level sandbagging is a big problem[/quote]
I think rgls smaller divs really helped with that compared to how wide the skill gap was in esea open. I agree about the div1 stuff too
29
#29
0 Frags +

please let me play scout in main

please let me play scout in main
30
#30
-8 Frags +
Nathanletting the degen sandbagging of esea open happen where like 3-4 high im/ invite level players would play on one team

TBH ESEA wasn't even that bad. JM was really the only "good" player on most of those teams, and the rest of the players (and the team as a whole) were more than beatable, The last real open sandbag team that was an actual problem was the like single season BudSquad played in open and then proceeded to main class in finals when they lost 3 rounds, and that was like 6+ years ago now. Beyond that sandbagging was never actually a massive issue in open. IM had more of an issue with the whole 8k era, but even then there were always teams that could stack up to them.

[quote=Nathan]letting the degen sandbagging of esea open happen where like 3-4 high im/ invite level players would play on one team[/quote]


TBH ESEA wasn't even that bad. JM was really the only "good" player on most of those teams, and the rest of the players (and the team as a whole) were more than beatable, The last real open sandbag team that was an actual problem was the like single season BudSquad played in open and then proceeded to main class in finals when they lost 3 rounds, and that was like 6+ years ago now. Beyond that sandbagging was never actually a massive issue in open. IM had more of an issue with the whole 8k era, but even then there were always teams that could stack up to them.
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