Upvote Upvoted 85 Downvote Downvoted
1 2 3 4 5 6 ⋅⋅ 8
froyotech benched from playing as a team in RGL
61
#61
16 Frags +
-waxI dont think forcibly gutting froyo was a very smart idea just because ethically it seems wrong, but this outrage really only seems to stem from existing contempt for sigafoo and his league/format.

That’s not true, we had a recent thread on this exact topic and it was almost unanimously agreed that it would be a terrible idea

[quote=-wax]
I dont think forcibly gutting froyo was a very smart idea just because ethically it seems wrong, but this outrage really only seems to stem from existing contempt for sigafoo and his league/format.[/quote]
That’s not true, we had a recent thread on this exact topic and it was almost unanimously agreed that it would be a terrible idea
62
#62
5 Frags +
-waxI dont think forcibly gutting froyo was a very smart idea just because ethically it seems wrong, but this outrage really only seems to stem from existing contempt for sigafoo and his league/format.

That's completely untrue. There's plenty justifiable reasons why this is a bad idea. I haven't followed sigafoo and his/her 7v7 league. I shouldn't have to point out that providing criticism for something which has many problems is in pursuit of a better solution more than anything.

[quote=-wax]
I dont think forcibly gutting froyo was a very smart idea just because ethically it seems wrong, but this outrage really only seems to stem from existing contempt for sigafoo and his league/format.[/quote]

That's completely untrue. There's plenty justifiable reasons why this is a bad idea. I haven't followed sigafoo and his/her 7v7 league. I shouldn't have to point out that providing criticism for something which has many problems is in pursuit of a better solution more than anything.
63
#63
78 Frags +

Lets ban Se7en from etf2l since they are winning too much.

Lets ban Se7en from etf2l since they are winning too much.
64
#64
8 Frags +

Wow. This might well be the dumbest decision I've ever seen a tf2 league make. I was open-minded toward 7v7 and played it for a season until realizing I don't enjoy it, but pulling something like this just proves you have no respect for competition.

edit - I also don't understand how this is being partly justified by ESEA's new rulings on prize money which seem to me like reasonable incentives for teams to play invite without hindering competition. But eh, not my problem.

Wow. This might well be the dumbest decision I've ever seen a tf2 league make. I was open-minded toward 7v7 and played it for a season until realizing I don't enjoy it, but pulling something like this just proves you have no respect for competition.

edit - I also don't understand how this is being partly justified by ESEA's new rulings on prize money which seem to me like reasonable incentives for teams to play invite without hindering competition. But eh, not my problem.
65
#65
12 Frags +
sigafooFortunately, when you either have enough money or enough players, you don't have to choose. We made the choice for the greater community, maybe it's the wrong one. We'll find out after this season and find out how competitive it is.
""

How does that benefit to "the greater community"?

Not everyone is able to play matches against froyo. In fact, only 7v7 Invite-level players can. Of the Invite-level teams, not every team is strong enough to fight for the top (or the 2nd place, doesn't matter). It seems that your decision impacts positively only this small number of teams.

It will also create instability in Invite teams, as some would be likely to cut players to make room for froyo refugees, in order to secure prize money. Reading you, it looked like you were against instability.

Now think about the quality of streamed matches, probably watched by most of your players in the lower divisions. Do these people, who make the backbone of your league and comp TF2 community, prefer to watch artificially castrated competition, or do they prefer to watch good games truly representing what being the best at tf2 means (such as the last RGL finals)?

At the very least, you could have chosen a less extreme way of enforcing what you call a "salary cap", like by not making froyo split completely to see what effect it has.

[quote=sigafoo]Fortunately, when you either have enough money or enough players, you don't have to choose. We made the choice for the greater community, maybe it's the wrong one. We'll find out after this season and find out how competitive it is.
""[/quote]

How does that benefit to "the greater community"?

Not everyone is able to play matches against froyo. In fact, only 7v7 Invite-level players can. Of the Invite-level teams, not every team is strong enough to fight for the top (or the 2nd place, doesn't matter). It seems that your decision impacts positively only this small number of teams.

It will also create instability in Invite teams, as some would be likely to cut players to make room for froyo refugees, in order to secure prize money. Reading you, it looked like you were against instability.

Now think about the quality of streamed matches, probably watched by most of your players in the lower divisions. Do these people, who make the backbone of your league and comp TF2 community, prefer to watch artificially castrated competition, or do they prefer to watch good games truly representing what being the best at tf2 means (such as the last RGL finals)?

At the very least, you could have chosen a less extreme way of enforcing what you call a "salary cap", like by not making froyo split completely to see what effect it has.
66
#66
35 Frags +
MasoniniLets ban Se7en from etf2l since they are winning too much.

dont say that out too loud etf2l admins might read this

[quote=Masonini]Lets ban Se7en from etf2l since they are winning too much.[/quote]

dont say that out too loud etf2l admins might read this
67
#67
18 Frags +

just in case there was any doubt about rgl being a joke casual league

just in case there was any doubt about rgl being a joke casual league
68
#68
39 Frags +

you can try to justify it however you like but there is no way to say "I don't want the world's best tf2 team in my league" without looking dumb

you can try to justify it however you like but there is no way to say "I don't want the world's best tf2 team in my league" without looking dumb
69
#69
-56 Frags +

It's funny cos even though I despair at the thought of playing RGL Sigafoo is actually right whether you disagree with his methods or not and I am guessing most people don't even play RGL or watch it nor fund it they just are insulted that Sigafoo is doing something not 6v6. Personally I wouldn't be insulted by this if I was always challenging Froyo, I would be more insulted that people are trying to stop me getting free prize money now that the best team in the league are restricted.

It's also funny people are trying to decide what should or should not be disrespectful to Ascent or whoever else failed to challenge them. I think truth kinda hurts here. Sometimes it does in TF2.

It's funny cos even though I despair at the thought of playing RGL Sigafoo is actually right whether you disagree with his methods or not and I am guessing most people don't even play RGL or watch it nor fund it they just are insulted that Sigafoo is doing something not 6v6. Personally I wouldn't be insulted by this if I was always challenging Froyo, I would be more insulted that people are trying to stop me getting free prize money now that the best team in the league are restricted.

It's also funny people are trying to decide what should or should not be disrespectful to Ascent or whoever else failed to challenge them. I think truth kinda hurts here. Sometimes it does in TF2.
70
#70
-23 Frags +
RussianGuyovich-waxI dont think forcibly gutting froyo was a very smart idea just because ethically it seems wrong, but this outrage really only seems to stem from existing contempt for sigafoo and his league/format.
That's completely untrue. There's plenty justifiable reasons why this is a bad idea. I haven't followed sigafoo and his/her 7v7 league. I shouldn't have to point out that providing criticism for something which has many problems is in pursuit of a better solution more than anything.

Lots of respect for you RussianG but a lot of the outrage does stem from it being Sigafoo from a certain bunch of posters here who always do attack him. There may be a precedent that this isn't a case but I don't see too many people here playing regularly. I don't even like 7v7 nor agree with the decision he has made and it's fair to say if I ran RGL I would done so many things differently but I can understand why he has done it which if I gave a shit about the league I would argue against but since I don't I just want to defend my ex teammate rrom my The Syndicate days on a personal level since this forums witchhunting and mob mentality driven me on the edge to a point I have little love left for a community I been a part of for a decade.

[quote=RussianGuyovich][quote=-wax]
I dont think forcibly gutting froyo was a very smart idea just because ethically it seems wrong, but this outrage really only seems to stem from existing contempt for sigafoo and his league/format.[/quote]

That's completely untrue. There's plenty justifiable reasons why this is a bad idea. I haven't followed sigafoo and his/her 7v7 league. I shouldn't have to point out that providing criticism for something which has many problems is in pursuit of a better solution more than anything.[/quote]

Lots of respect for you RussianG but a lot of the outrage does stem from it being Sigafoo from a certain bunch of posters here who always do attack him. There may be a precedent that this isn't a case but I don't see too many people here playing regularly. I don't even like 7v7 nor agree with the decision he has made and it's fair to say if I ran RGL I would done so many things differently but I can understand why he has done it which if I gave a shit about the league I would argue against but since I don't I just want to defend my ex teammate rrom my The Syndicate days on a personal level since this forums witchhunting and mob mentality driven me on the edge to a point I have little love left for a community I been a part of for a decade.
71
#71
12 Frags +

I just want to know how this part works

"All players will be allowed to play in RGL, but no more than one of them can be roster/play on the same team."

So you would need at LEAST 7 invite teams to field the 'current' froyotech members. Are there even 7 invite teams? (I actually don't know). Then b4nny could potentially just pickup a bunch of his prior teammates (like one other person mentioned) and say 'but they're not actually froyotech'. So it is a bit confusing how the actual cap would play out.

I just want to know how this part works
[quote]"All players will be allowed to play in RGL, but no more than one of them can be roster/play on the same team."[/quote]

So you would need at LEAST 7 invite teams to field the 'current' froyotech members. Are there even 7 invite teams? (I actually don't know). Then b4nny could potentially just pickup a bunch of his prior teammates (like one other person mentioned) and say 'but they're not actually froyotech'. So it is a bit confusing how the actual cap would play out.
72
#72
56 Frags +
HildrethIt's funny cos even though I despair at the thought of playing RGL Sigafoo is actually right whether you disagree with his methods or not and I am guessing most people don't even play RGL or watch it nor fund it they just are insulted that Sigafoo is doing something not 6v6. Personally I wouldn't be insulted by this if I was always challenging Froyo, I would be more insulted that people are trying to stop me getting free prize money now that the best team in the league are restricted.

It's also funny people are trying to decide what should or should not be disrespectful to Ascent or whoever else failed to challenge them. I think truth kinda hurts here. Sometimes it does in TF2.

Jesus christ, you must have built up quite a lot of resentment after all of those seasons in Highlander you ended up finishing 2nd place.

It's kind of ironic that someone who pereptually finishes 2nd would be defending banning the best team.

[quote=Hildreth]It's funny cos even though I despair at the thought of playing RGL Sigafoo is actually right whether you disagree with his methods or not and I am guessing most people don't even play RGL or watch it nor fund it they just are insulted that Sigafoo is doing something not 6v6. Personally I wouldn't be insulted by this if I was always challenging Froyo, I would be more insulted that people are trying to stop me getting free prize money now that the best team in the league are restricted.

It's also funny people are trying to decide what should or should not be disrespectful to Ascent or whoever else failed to challenge them. I think truth kinda hurts here. Sometimes it does in TF2.[/quote]

Jesus christ, you must have built up quite a lot of resentment after all of those seasons in Highlander you ended up finishing 2nd place.

It's kind of ironic that someone who pereptually finishes 2nd would be defending banning the best team.
73
#73
2 Frags +

To be honest Hildreth, I've not really been following the witchhunting/drama mentioned but thanks for the background.

I guess I'm an outsider perspective on this. I know that if I were sponsoring a league then I wouldn't be happy with a team getting removed because they are simply too good. What kind of precedent does that set? Teams should be encouraged to stick together and strive towards being the team to beat THE team. If I were to give a quick suggestion, it would be to try and figure out a way to incentivise runner up teams/players from continuing into the following season instead of folding and being back to square one.

To be honest Hildreth, I've not really been following the witchhunting/drama mentioned but thanks for the background.

I guess I'm an outsider perspective on this. I know that if I were sponsoring a league then I wouldn't be happy with a team getting removed because they are simply too good. What kind of precedent does that set? Teams should be encouraged to stick together and strive towards being the team to beat THE team. If I were to give a quick suggestion, it would be to try and figure out a way to incentivise runner up teams/players from continuing into the following season instead of folding and being back to square one.
74
#74
-5 Frags +

https://i.imgur.com/5udjqhn.png

This was during i63 hahahahahahahahaha

[img]https://i.imgur.com/5udjqhn.png[/img]

This was during i63 hahahahahahahahaha
75
#75
60 Frags +

I, like many others, have been waiting for “sigafoo to stop being a fucking idiot” but it hasn’t happened.

I, like many others, have been waiting for “sigafoo to stop being a fucking idiot” but it hasn’t happened.
76
#76
-9 Frags +
77
#77
-4 Frags +

I'm going to fortain battle royale anyone need anything ?

I'm going to fortain battle royale anyone need anything ?
78
#78
7 Frags +
Nati0nalI'm going to fortain battle royale anyone need anything ?

be careful to not get too good at it. You might be banned from playing it

[quote=Nati0nal]I'm going to fortain battle royale anyone need anything ?[/quote]
be careful to not get too good at it. You might be banned from playing it
79
#79
37 Frags +

Sigafoo confirming that 7v7 is just for unskilled players.

Sigafoo confirming that 7v7 is just for unskilled players.
80
#80
27 Frags +

This is Revenge for Disliking my Fan fic Sigafoo......

This is Revenge for Disliking my Fan fic Sigafoo......
81
#81
113 Frags +

Pretending for a moment that this isn't outright ridiculous, I feel like some of the 500+ words spent justifying this decision should have been used to legislate how the rule actually functions. It's called "the salary cap rule", but nowhere does it mention what the cap actually is. How much earnings did froyotech have to accrue for this rule to come into effect? How much does another team need to win before this rule will also apply to them?

Furthermore; in the case of froyotech, does this rule only apply to their RGL rostered players, or does it cover their ESEA roster as well? How about garbuglio and cookiejake from i63? Does this apply to froyotech's newly rostered players for the upcoming ESEA season? How long do the players have to be separate for before they are no longer considered team mates and can play together again? How many matches does a player have to play with a team before they are considered part of the core roster and are subject to this rule? What if froyotech create a new RGL line up in-keeping with whatever rules have been decided regarding the aforementioned issues, and then go on to dominate? At what point are those players no longer able to play together? What happens when you get through a few cycles of dominance and you have a group of 20+ players that are not allowed to play together?

If the answer to any of these issues is admin discretion based on perceived level of dominance, have you considered how this will impact the integrity of matches going forward? How will you ensure that a dominant team does not artificially close the gap in map/series wins by throwing rounds in what would otherwise be comfortable victories so as to create the impression of close competition and avoid being subject to this ruling?

To be clear, I think this rule is fundamentally against the spirit of any competitive discipline, and makes a mockery of the players and teams involved. At the end of the day though it is your league and you can do what you want, but if you are going to do it then at the very least do the prerequisite groundwork.

Pretending for a moment that this isn't outright ridiculous, I feel like some of the 500+ words spent justifying this decision should have been used to legislate how the rule actually functions. It's called "the salary cap rule", but nowhere does it mention what the cap actually is. How much earnings did froyotech have to accrue for this rule to come into effect? How much does another team need to win before this rule will also apply to them?

Furthermore; in the case of froyotech, does this rule only apply to their RGL rostered players, or does it cover their ESEA roster as well? How about garbuglio and cookiejake from i63? Does this apply to froyotech's newly rostered players for the upcoming ESEA season? How long do the players have to be separate for before they are no longer considered team mates and can play together again? How many matches does a player have to play with a team before they are considered part of the core roster and are subject to this rule? What if froyotech create a new RGL line up in-keeping with whatever rules have been decided regarding the aforementioned issues, and then go on to dominate? At what point are those players no longer able to play together? What happens when you get through a few cycles of dominance and you have a group of 20+ players that are not allowed to play together?

If the answer to any of these issues is admin discretion based on perceived level of dominance, have you considered how this will impact the integrity of matches going forward? How will you ensure that a dominant team does not artificially close the gap in map/series wins by throwing rounds in what would otherwise be comfortable victories so as to create the impression of close competition and avoid being subject to this ruling?

To be clear, I think this rule is fundamentally against the spirit of any competitive discipline, and makes a mockery of the players and teams involved. At the end of the day though it is your league and you can do what you want, but if you are going to do it then at the very least do the prerequisite groundwork.
82
#82
serveme.tf
72 Frags +

Winning RGL will now feel like winning the special olympics while you're not disabled. It probably already felt like that before, but now more so.

Winning RGL will now feel like winning the special olympics while you're not disabled. It probably already felt like that before, but now more so.
83
#83
48 Frags +

Froyo can play but b4nny has to play engie

Froyo can play but b4nny has to play engie
84
#84
28 Frags +

regardless of anyone's personal opinion about the team, competitive integrity is something i've always been quite proud of in tf2. the best team always wins (unless they get food poisoning), so it's mind blowing to me that this would even happen, especially in a league so desperate for credibility.

regardless of anyone's personal opinion about the team, competitive integrity is something i've always been quite proud of in tf2. the best team always wins (unless they get food poisoning), so it's mind blowing to me that this would even happen, especially in a league so desperate for credibility.
85
#85
7 Frags +

how are players going to be motivated to get better now? Forget all the other reasons but every player thats ever wanted to beat froyotech in some sort of form dont have it. How can you be motivated to become the best when the best are not allowed to be the best. Yes its tf2 so marketability is more of a joke, now I could be completely wrong but I am sure when games were being casted froyotechs would be the most viewed because within TF2 they are the most popular team. Not only are you lowering the skill ceiling but you are limiting the potential exposure to your league and therefore TF2. On top of that now when any person within the esports scene outside of TF2 here this its only going to make it more of a joke to them. Honestly if we want to grow this game we have to treat it like any other Esport and any other industry/ business. Yes people will still play it because of the money but its just disappointing that a league that was different and yes maybe people didnt like it but it gave TF2 a different flavour, I enjoyed watching it every now and then but I can gaurentee everyone that saw potential in this league is now very minimal.

how are players going to be motivated to get better now? Forget all the other reasons but every player thats ever wanted to beat froyotech in some sort of form dont have it. How can you be motivated to become the best when the best are not allowed to be the best. Yes its tf2 so marketability is more of a joke, now I could be completely wrong but I am sure when games were being casted froyotechs would be the most viewed because within TF2 they are the most popular team. Not only are you lowering the skill ceiling but you are limiting the potential exposure to your league and therefore TF2. On top of that now when any person within the esports scene outside of TF2 here this its only going to make it more of a joke to them. Honestly if we want to grow this game we have to treat it like any other Esport and any other industry/ business. Yes people will still play it because of the money but its just disappointing that a league that was different and yes maybe people didnt like it but it gave TF2 a different flavour, I enjoyed watching it every now and then but I can gaurentee everyone that saw potential in this league is now very minimal.
86
#86
66 Frags +

#noplaceb4nny

#noplaceb4nny
87
#87
117 Frags +

I heard there's a new team forming called boyotech with someone known as d4nny leading it.

I heard there's a new team forming called boyotech with someone known as d4nny leading it.
88
#88
-11 Frags +

dudes not smart but hes trying to help tf2 with organising a league, some people are really being asses just to get an nerd star over someones corpse, in hindsight you should never have let froyo compete in their form because ot was extremely obvious a situation where they would dominate completely would happen from before the league started, could have made a deal with b4nny and the invite people willing to play to promote your league through copious amounts of money and get at least two teams who would, if playing vs each other make for exciting casts. but yea, its way too late for that now, and banning froyo is just gonna kill promotion for your league. Oh well.

dudes not smart but hes trying to help tf2 with organising a league, some people are really being asses just to get an nerd star over someones corpse, in hindsight you should never have let froyo compete in their form because ot was extremely obvious a situation where they would dominate completely would happen from before the league started, could have made a deal with b4nny and the invite people willing to play to promote your league through copious amounts of money and get at least two teams who would, if playing vs each other make for exciting casts. but yea, its way too late for that now, and banning froyo is just gonna kill promotion for your league. Oh well.
89
#89
31 Frags +

"Of all of the decision that we've made as a league made, this is the one we're least confident about."
Pretty much sums it all up doesn't it.

"Of all of the decision that we've made as a league made, this is the one we're least confident about."
Pretty much sums it all up doesn't it.
90
#90
44 Frags +

fear

fear
1 2 3 4 5 6 ⋅⋅ 8
Please sign in through STEAM to post a comment.