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Would you be in favor of a map rotation revamp?
61
#61
3 Frags +

Would love to see a badlands_pro with fixed forward spawns / battlements and lobby. Right now its way too painful to push last and to push out of last.

Would love to see a badlands_pro with fixed forward spawns / battlements and lobby. Right now its way too painful to push last and to push out of last.
62
#62
-4 Frags +

Increase map pool size, and add more Koth maps (bagel, ashville/coalplant please), maybe bring back another gamemode (you're all probably remembering ancient Gravelpit matches, huh?)
Also the map cup only had like 32 teams in it, and a LOT MORE than 32 teams would be affected by the new maps. So I'm not sure how deciding what maps are chosen would work, but it would probably just go to an agreement between league admins like with the whitelist.

Increase map pool size, and add more Koth maps (bagel, ashville/coalplant please), maybe bring back another gamemode (you're all probably remembering ancient Gravelpit matches, huh?)
Also the map cup only had like 32 teams in it, and a LOT MORE than 32 teams would be affected by the new maps. So I'm not sure how deciding what maps are chosen would work, but it would probably just go to an agreement between league admins like with the whitelist.
63
#63
3 Frags +

people are missing the major detail that esea runs the rotation with 8 maps so increasing the map pool size isn't a thing

people are missing the major detail that esea runs the rotation with 8 maps so increasing the map pool size isn't a thing
64
#64
-3 Frags +
lucrativepeople are missing the major detail that esea runs the rotation with 8 maps so increasing the map pool size isn't a thing

downfrag me ive made a mistake

[quote=lucrative]people are missing the major detail that esea runs the rotation with 8 maps so increasing the map pool size isn't a thing[/quote]
downfrag me ive made a mistake
65
#65
10 Frags +

reviving this topic for additional discussion, ESEA sign ups are underway and soon map rotation will come into the discussion. would like to hear where the community thinks we are at, when i made this thread originally it seemed to be quite a popular idea and alot of maps have been reworked since then.

reviving this topic for additional discussion, ESEA sign ups are underway and soon map rotation will come into the discussion. would like to hear where the community thinks we are at, when i made this thread originally it seemed to be quite a popular idea and alot of maps have been reworked since then.
66
#66
16 Frags +

If anyone can find it Kaidus talked about this in regards to ETF2L. Basically stating how so many maps now are process clones. I think most of the antipathy towards new maps is simply the learning curve. If the map pool was more diverse it could lead to upsets and this is what people are trying to avoid looking forward at their schedules. Trying to introduce players to new maps through Pugchamp has proven to be ineffective for this very reason. I think it would end up having to be a forced decision by an admins who really had a decent understanding of the maps themselves.

If anyone can find it Kaidus talked about this in regards to ETF2L. Basically stating how so many maps now are process clones. I think most of the antipathy towards new maps is simply the learning curve. If the map pool was more diverse it could lead to upsets and this is what people are trying to avoid looking forward at their schedules. Trying to introduce players to new maps through Pugchamp has proven to be ineffective for this very reason. I think it would end up having to be a forced decision by an admins who really had a decent understanding of the maps themselves.
67
#67
7 Frags +

I for one vote to remove granary and add one of the new maps. I would honestly rather play reckoner at this point, and as much as I am an anti reckoner/sunshine activist, I just don't see any other option. Also this would put us uniform with Europe and I think uniformity between leagues is a luxury we can afford.

I for one vote to remove granary and add one of the new maps. I would honestly rather play reckoner at this point, and as much as I am an anti reckoner/sunshine activist, I just don't see any other option. Also this would put us uniform with Europe and I think uniformity between leagues is a luxury we can afford.
68
#68
8 Frags +
BeelthazusI for one vote to remove granary and add one of the new maps. I would honestly rather play reckoner at this point, and as much as I am an anti reckoner/sunshine activist, I just don't see any other option. Also this would put us uniform with Europe and I think uniformity between leagues is a luxury we can afford.

If there would be plans on having a map list that's more similar to what the other continents have in use, then removing Metalworks would be a better bet since no other league other than ESEA is still running it currently.

http://comp.tf/wiki/Portal:Maps/6v6

Not saying that there would be need to treat Granary as a special map of its own kind due to its age and keep it because of that, but if there is definitely enough feedback to keeping the map in the season then I don't see anything wrong with it, especially since it does definitely play out in a very different way than all the Process clones as mentioned above, which already gives Granary a special place in the map pool.

[quote=Beelthazus]I for one vote to remove granary and add one of the new maps. I would honestly rather play reckoner at this point, and as much as I am an anti reckoner/sunshine activist, I just don't see any other option. Also this would put us uniform with Europe and I think uniformity between leagues is a luxury we can afford.[/quote]

If there would be plans on having a map list that's more similar to what the other continents have in use, then removing Metalworks would be a better bet since no other league other than ESEA is still running it currently.

http://comp.tf/wiki/Portal:Maps/6v6

Not saying that there would be need to treat Granary as a special map of its own kind due to its age and keep it because of that, but if there is definitely enough feedback to keeping the map in the season then I don't see anything wrong with it, especially since it does definitely play out in a very different way than all the Process clones as mentioned above, which already gives Granary a special place in the map pool.
69
#69
7 Frags +

reckoner used to be pretty bad but in it's current shape it's the worst map i've ever played

reckoner used to be pretty bad but in it's current shape it's the worst map i've ever played
70
#70
2 Frags +

Yes please, make a ESEA pole and lets get this moving. Maps are stagnant and we have been playing 2 of them for almost 10 years ffs.

Yes please, make a ESEA pole and lets get this moving. Maps are stagnant and we have been playing 2 of them for almost 10 years ffs.
71
#71
0 Frags +

if the maps do change
bagel better not replace anything

if the maps do change
bagel better not replace anything
72
#72
0 Frags +

What was the reason that Yukon got taken off of active play? I know it was ages ago but i don't remember why people disliked it.

What was the reason that Yukon got taken off of active play? I know it was ages ago but i don't remember why people disliked it.
73
#73
0 Frags +

Double Nat heavy on last and snipers on mid.

Double Nat heavy on last and snipers on mid.
74
#74
5 Frags +

In my opinion, the map pool should represent the eight strongest maps possible. With that said, it's really hard to determine which maps are better than which because the incentive doesn't exist for players to play and test them.
This was evident with the inclusion of cp_kalinka in PugChamp, in which no one played it at all. Also, because new maps being introduced in ESEA rarely happens, there is even less incentive for people to play new maps, because why play maps that will never see actual competitive use (same thing with map makers; why spend hours upon hours making a map for competitive if it will never see competitive use)? I think we need either more map cups/more incentive to really see if maps like koth_warmfrost and cp_cardinal are really ready to be seen competitively. Personally, a Faceit hub with all new maps + prizes could be a great start to this,

With that said, i still do think koth_bagel should be added to the map list. It was rated much higher than any other map after the map cup last year. Also, Granary is considered by most people to be the worst map in the map pool. I don't see why it shouldn't be considered based on this information, and i would like to see another vote on the matter.

Edit: Formatting

In my opinion, the map pool should represent the eight strongest maps possible. With that said, it's really hard to determine which maps are better than which because the incentive doesn't exist for players to play and test them.
This was evident with the inclusion of cp_kalinka in PugChamp, in which no one played it at all. Also, because new maps being introduced in ESEA rarely happens, there is even less incentive for people to play new maps, because why play maps that will never see actual competitive use (same thing with map makers; why spend hours upon hours making a map for competitive if it will never see competitive use)? I think we need either more map cups/more incentive to really see if maps like koth_warmfrost and cp_cardinal are really ready to be seen competitively. Personally, a Faceit hub with all new maps + prizes could be a great start to this,

With that said, i still do think koth_bagel should be added to the map list. [url=http://www.teamfortress.tv/39816/new-map-cup-data]It was rated much higher than any other map after the map cup last year.[/url] [url=http://www.teamfortress.tv/40659/map-voting-results]Also, Granary is considered by most people to be the worst map in the map pool. [/url] I don't see why it shouldn't be considered based on this information, and i would like to see another vote on the matter.

Edit: Formatting
75
#75
0 Frags +
Tino_Double Nat heavy on last and snipers on mid.

If natascha gets taken off active play, would yukon be worth trying again?

[quote=Tino_]Double Nat heavy on last and snipers on mid.[/quote]

If natascha gets taken off active play, would yukon be worth trying again?
76
#76
1 Frags +

I did some in house pugs about 3 years ago specifically for the map to see how it plays and in general it was a Ok map, some issues with stuff like underpass and how open last is but yeah it could probably be in the pool again

Edit: Found the notes I made

- Move last forward
- Spawn times are shit!!!!!
- Rework lower mid-second to give more space and make viable
- move Lower left on last exit forward
- Banana/choke needs to be reworked
- Make mid about 20% smaller if possible

I did some in house pugs about 3 years ago specifically for the map to see how it plays and in general it was a Ok map, some issues with stuff like underpass and how open last is but yeah it could probably be in the pool again


Edit: Found the notes I made

- Move last forward
- Spawn times are shit!!!!!
- Rework lower mid-second to give more space and make viable
- move Lower left on last exit forward
- Banana/choke needs to be reworked
- Make mid about 20% smaller if possible
77
#77
6 Frags +

i think all map should rotate around in circle when fite for more dinamicacity and hav people go left right all over place and circle point capture would rotate other direction from map so map has a lot of spins

i think all map should rotate around in circle when fite for more dinamicacity and hav people go left right all over place and circle point capture would rotate other direction from map so map has a lot of spins
78
#78
2 Frags +

agree

agree
79
#79
-4 Frags +

koth_fidgetspinner

koth_fidgetspinner
80
#80
2 Frags +

It'd be nice to have all the maps play differently from one another, but i think that can be achieved with just cp maps with a different design. I think it'd be easier to make a cp map that plays differently instead of a koth map that differs from viaduct. You can kinda see that with how differently process, granary, and gullywash are played. Could try out a 3cp/7cp format or something.

We need more diverse maps but reckoner is more of the same imo. Idk if bagel plays similar to viaduct but if it does there's no point in changing the current maps.

It'd be nice to have all the maps play differently from one another, but i think that can be achieved with just cp maps with a different design. I think it'd be easier to make a cp map that plays differently instead of a koth map that differs from viaduct. You can kinda see that with how differently process, granary, and gullywash are played. Could try out a 3cp/7cp format or something.

We need more diverse maps but reckoner is more of the same imo. Idk if bagel plays similar to viaduct but if it does there's no point in changing the current maps.
81
#81
2 Frags +

Really like yukon but it feels wayyy too big and has huge sniper sightlines
Logjam and Bagel are pretty good, logjam is super fun for me but the cap time is way too long on last atm, you can literally walk all the way from lobby back to your last if someone tries to backcap.

HellbentWe need more diverse maps but reckoner is more of the same imo. Idk if bagel plays similar to viaduct but if it does there's no point in changing the current maps.

Bagel doesnt play much like product. One complaint i heard about bagel is that theres no transition zone, the whole middle part is a big fight zone. Also the area between spawn and the "lobbies" to mid is a bit too big imo.

Really like yukon but it feels wayyy too big and has huge sniper sightlines
Logjam and Bagel are pretty good, logjam is super fun for me but the cap time is way too long on last atm, you can literally walk all the way from lobby back to your last if someone tries to backcap.
[quote=Hellbent]We need more diverse maps but reckoner is more of the same imo. Idk if bagel plays similar to viaduct but if it does there's no point in changing the current maps.[/quote]
Bagel doesnt play much like product. One complaint i heard about bagel is that theres no transition zone, the whole middle part is a big fight zone. Also the area between spawn and the "lobbies" to mid is a bit too big imo.
82
#82
2 Frags +

what we really need is some way to have a map rotation of more than 7 maps (for europe)

what we really need is some way to have a map rotation of more than 7 maps (for europe)
83
#83
1 Frags +
Twiggywhat we really need is some way to have a map rotation of more than 7 maps (for europe)

Longer seasons and more teams

Personally saying extending main seasons in ETF2L by a week should be doable at the cost of shorter off-seasons but to make it happen and work properly we need more teams as well, or make the league slightly different (mostly for the higher skilled teams) than what it is like now.

[quote=Twiggy]what we really need is some way to have a map rotation of more than 7 maps (for europe)[/quote]

Longer seasons and more teams

Personally saying extending main seasons in ETF2L by a week should be doable at the cost of shorter off-seasons but to make it happen and work properly we need more teams as well, or make the league slightly different (mostly for the higher skilled teams) than what it is like now.
84
#84
2 Frags +

more koth = more fun

more koth = more fun
85
#85
-4 Frags +

asap -granary +cardinal. something to explore in the future -badlands +??? badlands last is just such a fucking disaster imo

asap -granary +cardinal. something to explore in the future -badlands +??? badlands last is just such a fucking disaster imo
86
#86
0 Frags +

ily metalworks

ily metalworks
87
#87
7 Frags +
sageLogjam and Bagel are pretty good, logjam is super fun for me but the cap time is way too long on last atm, you can literally walk all the way from lobby back to your last if someone tries to backcap.

I can fix that in less time than it will take to compile. If you guys put logjam in, I'm all ears and ready. I've re-iterated it a billion times for basically no reason at this point but if someone actually picks it up I'll be back at it.

[quote=sage]
Logjam and Bagel are pretty good, logjam is super fun for me but the cap time is way too long on last atm, you can literally walk all the way from lobby back to your last if someone tries to backcap.
[/quote]

I can fix that in less time than it will take to compile. If you guys put logjam in, I'm all ears and ready. I've re-iterated it a billion times for basically no reason at this point but if someone actually picks it up I'll be back at it.
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