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cp_reckoner (5CP)
211
#211
9 Frags +

In cargo this ledge sticks out where you cant push through it (in both pictures i'm holding w)

https://puu.sh/ywcml/0836a6b863.jpg
https://puu.sh/ywcmt/f4b30ad1f3.jpg

This was only in red cargo

In cargo this ledge sticks out where you cant push through it (in both pictures i'm holding w)

https://puu.sh/ywcml/0836a6b863.jpg
https://puu.sh/ywcmt/f4b30ad1f3.jpg

This was only in red cargo
212
#212
5 Frags +

Holy epic update. Actually makes me want to play the map now. (in all fairness, the last has always been great imho, actually one of the more fun lasts to both hold and push, except maybe for the fact that having your medic sit in spawn is way too good)

edit1: I feel like putting small health packs on top of the boxes on mid could be cool btw. Loving the drop down too.

edit2: Minor goofy shit going in front of blue cargo

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/879754964160131916/B598BC65FAAF7EFCB9DB5BCBA9F7145E77D2FA86/

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/879754964160132318/43B0BEA68D5B623AAE208CC2FC1777F69BF868B3/

Holy epic update. Actually makes me want to play the map now. (in all fairness, the last has always been great imho, actually one of the more fun lasts to both hold and push, except maybe for the fact that having your medic sit in spawn is way too good)

edit1: I feel like putting small health packs on top of the boxes on mid could be cool btw. Loving the drop down too.

edit2: Minor goofy shit going in front of blue cargo [img]https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/879754964160131916/B598BC65FAAF7EFCB9DB5BCBA9F7145E77D2FA86/[/img]
[img]https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/879754964160132318/43B0BEA68D5B623AAE208CC2FC1777F69BF868B3/[/img]
213
#213
15 Frags +

Change these huge mid crates to something else.. ffs

Change these huge mid crates to something else.. ffs
214
#214
3 Frags +

pls remove invisible wall from cargo
few bugs, mostly visual: https://imgur.com/a/V5Mwv

pls remove invisible wall from cargo
few bugs, mostly visual: https://imgur.com/a/V5Mwv
215
#215
4 Frags +

About the new mid capture zone : I dislike it. It makes no notable difference in how the fight happens, as most midfights are over before the point is capped .Having the point on low ground forces people down the pit and make them vulnerable while they cap, which is an interesting tactical data.
Plays the low ground cap zone make possible include :
one player hero blocking mid (now completely impossible if the capper has the high ground),
teams waiting for the attacking team to start capping (= useless bodies on low ground) to come in and block

The new cargo drop down is a very good idea.

I don't see what the new stacked crates accomplish. I only see people holding mid on an even higher ground than before from those crates. In this specific scenario keeping the lip is very bad as scouts will always have the time to go around and climb on top. Good luck attempting counter sacks now.

About the new toxic to mid high door, i dont see why you didnt just increase ceiling height and keep it where it was. It's now even longer for a team on mid to rotate between cargo and toxic. Combine this with the as tiny-as-before-in-practice doorway from toxic to second and you have a zone as stalematey as before (or even more).
What bothers me a lot is the complete lack of vision you have when standing there :

https://i.imgur.com/czswApR.jpg

Imagine i'm scout or roamer and i want to gather some intel; i have to go down the stairs and peek, who knows whats besides the door? I could get buttfucked just for risking a glance. And without intel teams will never commit to pushes.

All in all i really don't understand the direction you're trying to go with your map. If you're trying to make it less slow/stalemate prone, it's not working for me. If you're trying to do quality of life for soldiers, sure, super high ground is the way to go.

About the new mid capture zone : I dislike it. It makes no notable difference in how the fight happens, as most midfights are over before the point is capped .Having the point on low ground forces people down the pit and make them vulnerable while they cap, which is an interesting tactical data.
Plays the low ground cap zone make possible include :
one player hero blocking mid (now completely impossible if the capper has the high ground),
teams waiting for the attacking team to start capping (= useless bodies on low ground) to come in and block

The new cargo drop down is a very good idea.

I don't see what the new stacked crates accomplish. I only see people holding mid on an even higher ground than before from those crates. In this specific scenario keeping the lip is very bad as scouts will always have the time to go around and climb on top. Good luck attempting counter sacks now.

About the new toxic to mid high door, i dont see why you didnt just increase ceiling height and keep it where it was. It's now even longer for a team on mid to rotate between cargo and toxic. Combine this with the as tiny-as-before-in-practice doorway from toxic to second and you have a zone as stalematey as before (or even more).
What bothers me a lot is the complete lack of vision you have when standing there :
[img]https://i.imgur.com/czswApR.jpg[/img]
Imagine i'm scout or roamer and i want to gather some intel; i have to go down the stairs and peek, who knows whats besides the door? I could get buttfucked just for risking a glance. And without intel teams will never commit to pushes.

All in all i really don't understand the direction you're trying to go with your map. If you're trying to make it less slow/stalemate prone, it's not working for me. If you're trying to do quality of life for soldiers, sure, super high ground is the way to go.
216
#216
3 Frags +
TwiggyWhat bothers me a lot is the complete lack of vision you have when standing there :
https://i.imgur.com/czswApR.jpg
Imagine i'm scout or roamer and i want to gather some intel; i have to go down the stairs and peek, who knows whats besides the door? I could get buttfucked just for risking a glance. And without intel teams will never commit to pushes.

This kind of design is quite common simply because the sniper class exists. You don't want too many sightlines that are easy to peak without committing the life of your sniper. I wouldn't like my medic to get sniped outside cargo from a sniper casually strolling in the upper areas of sewer TOXIC, without giving the defenders of 2nd a proper shot at fending off the sniper with spam/rushing them etc. That's precisely what this limited sightline provides.

[quote=Twiggy]What bothers me a lot is the complete lack of vision you have when standing there :
[img]https://i.imgur.com/czswApR.jpg[/img]
Imagine i'm scout or roamer and i want to gather some intel; i have to go down the stairs and peek, who knows whats besides the door? I could get buttfucked just for risking a glance. And without intel teams will never commit to pushes.
[/quote] This kind of design is quite common simply because the sniper class exists. You don't want too many sightlines that are easy to peak without committing the life of your sniper. I wouldn't like my medic to get sniped outside cargo from a sniper casually strolling in the upper areas of [s]sewer[/s] TOXIC, without giving the defenders of 2nd a proper shot at fending off the sniper with spam/rushing them etc. That's precisely what this limited sightline provides.
217
#217
5 Frags +

From what I've seen from one or three odd streams of POVs, cap point being moved seems to be in the "this could be okay" range, tall crates seems to be in the "this is far from okay" range. Here's Kaidus casually theorycrafting about it for a bit and a little after the clip on the VOD timestamp, though he mentioned he/Se7en need to play it more to see if his feedback holds ground. Most of which was mentioned here a while back.

People or players infinitely more qualified than me should leave actual playtest feedback here or take a moment and say "hey, I agree with x and y about these issues, but not z" etc etc, since I imagine it might hold more ground over a casual viewer like me saying "this is what I heard these players say about ur map n stuffs".

From what I've seen from one or three odd streams of POVs, cap point being moved seems to be in the "this could be okay" range, tall crates seems to be in the "this is far from okay" range. Here's [url=https://clips.twitch.tv/ViscousFuriousPartridgeRaccAttack]Kaidus casually theorycrafting about it for a bit and a little after the clip on the VOD timestamp[/url], though he mentioned he/Se7en need to play it more to see if his feedback holds ground. Most of which was mentioned here a while back.

People or players infinitely more qualified than me should leave actual playtest feedback here or take a moment and say "hey, I agree with x and y about these issues, but not z" etc etc, since I imagine it might hold more ground over a casual viewer like me saying "this is what I heard these players say about ur map n stuffs".
218
#218
8 Frags +

one major thing i noticed playing this last night was that in the red cargo area there is an invisible wall that you cant walk through.

same issue as sage had in #214

https://i.imgur.com/nuyO2Wj.jpg

as for the rest of the map changes -
not keen on the double stacked crates at mid, and pushing toxic to second you are basically blind
i like the new dropdown in cargo and that the cap isnt on the ground

one major thing i noticed playing this last night was that in the red cargo area there is an invisible wall that you cant walk through.

same issue as sage had in #214

[img]https://i.imgur.com/nuyO2Wj.jpg[/img]


as for the rest of the map changes -
not keen on the double stacked crates at mid, and pushing toxic to second you are basically blind
i like the new dropdown in cargo and that the cap isnt on the ground
219
#219
0 Frags +

not a fan of the tall crates. from a mid perspective reckoner wasn't great in rc2 because you could either go left or right and end up mirroring them or contesting them. mirroring seemed safer but there wasn't any real strategy to it. now you can only go left because going right leads to death and destruction (someone good at the game correct me if im wrong about all of that)

imo the best mids have a variety of strats you can use on them (e.g. blands, granary though that has it's own problems) and that would be something good to aim for

not a fan of the tall crates. from a mid perspective reckoner wasn't great in rc2 because you could either go left or right and end up mirroring them or contesting them. mirroring seemed safer but there wasn't any real strategy to it. now you can only go left because going right leads to death and destruction (someone good at the game correct me if im wrong about all of that)

imo the best mids have a variety of strats you can use on them (e.g. blands, granary though that has it's own problems) and that would be something good to aim for
220
#220
0 Frags +

rc3 just got added to the FACEIT matchmaking map pool

not too bad, had fun playing it but the bad clipping/invisible wall in cargo (#214/#218) needs to be fixed ASAP

rc3 just got added to the FACEIT matchmaking map pool

not too bad, had fun playing it but the bad clipping/invisible wall in cargo (#214/#218) needs to be fixed ASAP
221
#221
cp_sunshine, cp_cardinal
15 Frags +

Going to do a quality-of-life update (probably call it RC4) very soon just to get it out there: I doubt the timing is great, but I've waited long enough (too long) and there needs to be at least a FEW fixes.

Will be fixing that damn clipping and removing double crates - reverting to one.

Will be going through various feedback logs and fixing things here and there but don't expect a huge layout revision unless someone contacts me directly with feedback.

Sorry about the lack of attention - moved to a different country, started university back up, searching for a job/working, it all consumes time. Will get this out within the week.

Cheers
phi

Going to do a quality-of-life update (probably call it RC4) very soon just to get it out there: I doubt the timing is great, but I've waited long enough (too long) and there needs to be at least a FEW fixes.

Will be fixing that damn clipping and removing double crates - reverting to one.

Will be going through various feedback logs and fixing things here and there but don't expect a huge layout revision unless someone contacts me directly with feedback.

Sorry about the lack of attention - moved to a different country, started university back up, searching for a job/working, it all consumes time. Will get this out within the week.

Cheers
phi
222
#222
cp_sunshine, cp_cardinal
20 Frags +

cp_reckoner_rc4a

The Reckoning

DOWNLOAD RC4A HERE!

As always, let me know if anything is wrong - this time I will be putting out an rc4a if any bugs have made it through!

SOME CHANGES:

***Gameplay Changes***
- Shortened length of the entire second point area by at least 128 units in all spots
- Moved greenhouse on second point area to a more centralised location

***Aesthetic and Quality-of-Life Changes***
- Removed a building on the edge of the second point to provide a much better view to the beautiful skybox
- Removed second crates on mid
- Fixed clipping bug
- General polish and preparation for the future.

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20180331185034_1-jpg.74473/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20180331185004_1-jpg.74474/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20180331184947_1-jpg.74475/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20180331184930_1-jpg.74476/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20180331170141_1-jpg.74478/

[h]cp_reckoner_rc4a[/h]

The Reckoning

[url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/reckoner.974/download?version=13292]DOWNLOAD RC4A HERE![/url]

As always, let me know if anything is wrong - this time I will be putting out an rc4a if any bugs have made it through!

SOME CHANGES:

***Gameplay Changes***
- Shortened length of the entire second point area by at least 128 units in all spots
- Moved greenhouse on second point area to a more centralised location

***Aesthetic and Quality-of-Life Changes***
- Removed a building on the edge of the second point to provide a much better view to the beautiful skybox
- Removed second crates on mid
- Fixed clipping bug
- General polish and preparation for the future.

[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20180331185034_1-jpg.74473/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20180331185004_1-jpg.74474/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20180331184947_1-jpg.74475/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20180331184930_1-jpg.74476/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20180331170141_1-jpg.74478/[/img]
223
#223
10 Frags +

strange clip brush on red 2nd

https://i.imgur.com/VIKsHnM.jpg

strange clip brush on red 2nd
[img]https://i.imgur.com/VIKsHnM.jpg[/img]
224
#224
4 Frags +

overall i think you're doing good job but this map has too many flaws and a really bad reputation, unless you make drastic changes to the way this maps plays out i don't think there's is much reason to keep updating it
quickly looking through the map

Show Content

https://i.imgur.com/wIVpjfQ.jpg

this concrete curb should be removed or made non solid

https://i.imgur.com/F8vr7Y5.jpg

this pipe should be made solid or removed

https://i.imgur.com/msHpHoQ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/NgMcdzw.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/IDv1q8S.jpg

these 3 should be removed or made non solid, they serve no purpose until someone randomly whacks their head against them and dies because of it

https://i.imgur.com/7rhKm3y.jpg

not exactly alligned

https://i.imgur.com/p6bHJjB.png

https://i.imgur.com/DCP3L2l.jpg

the player clip on these is higher then is represented by the fence

https://i.imgur.com/Ac8mrZh.jpg

the bums on the ends of the fence shouldn't be solid

https://i.imgur.com/naB95rW.jpg

you can shoot through this fence here, i don't think it should be there at all, it serves no purpose and just negatively affects the fluidity of the movement in the area
overall i think you're doing good job but this map has too many flaws and a really bad reputation, unless you make drastic changes to the way this maps plays out i don't think there's is much reason to keep updating it
quickly looking through the map
[spoiler]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/wIVpjfQ.jpg[/img]
this concrete curb should be removed or made non solid

[img]https://i.imgur.com/F8vr7Y5.jpg[/img]
this pipe should be made solid or removed

[img]https://i.imgur.com/msHpHoQ.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/NgMcdzw.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/IDv1q8S.jpg[/img]
these 3 should be removed or made non solid, they serve no purpose until someone randomly whacks their head against them and dies because of it

[img]https://i.imgur.com/7rhKm3y.jpg[/img]
not exactly alligned

[img]https://i.imgur.com/p6bHJjB.png[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/DCP3L2l.jpg[/img]
the player clip on these is higher then is represented by the fence

[img]https://i.imgur.com/Ac8mrZh.jpg[/img]
the bums on the ends of the fence shouldn't be solid

[img]https://i.imgur.com/naB95rW.jpg[/img]
you can shoot through this fence here, i don't think it should be there at all, it serves no purpose and just negatively affects the fluidity of the movement in the area
[/spoiler]
225
#225
3 Frags +
- General polish and preparation for the future.

What do you plan for?

[quote]- General polish and preparation for the future.[/quote]

What do you plan for?
226
#226
cp_sunshine, cp_cardinal
6 Frags +

Will be sending an rc4a around this way later on today to fix the minor issues as pointed out by junnu/degu. Figure that's necessary. Sorry server folks, but I gotta make up that slack.

Not gonna stop updating the map just cause it's got a 'bad rep' - every custom map outside of the main 7 has that, and I don't see any maps trying to take Reckoner's spot.

RC4A coming in a couple hours.

Will be sending an rc4a around this way later on today to fix the minor issues as pointed out by junnu/degu. Figure that's necessary. Sorry server folks, but I gotta make up that slack.

Not gonna stop updating the map just cause it's got a 'bad rep' - every custom map outside of the main 7 has that, and I don't see any maps trying to take Reckoner's spot.

RC4A coming in a couple hours.
227
#227
cp_sunshine, cp_cardinal
6 Frags +

RC4A Download

I will also edit the download in the RC4 post above.

Changes:
- Fixed clipping issue on ramp on second
- Changed instances of the shutter door prop, made them easier to avoid interacting with
- Edited fence props on second slightly
- Removed fence in cargo
- Removed lip in new area on 2nd
- Removed pipe on greenhouse
- Edited some clipping

[url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/reckoner.974/download?version=13292]RC4A Download[/url]

I will also edit the download in the RC4 post above.

Changes:
- Fixed clipping issue on ramp on second
- Changed instances of the shutter door prop, made them easier to avoid interacting with
- Edited fence props on second slightly
- Removed fence in cargo
- Removed lip in new area on 2nd
- Removed pipe on greenhouse
- Edited some clipping
228
#228
-4 Frags +

https://clips.twitch.tv/LachrymoseTenderMeatloafRedCoat

https://clips.twitch.tv/LachrymoseTenderMeatloafRedCoat
229
#229
7 Frags +

^ I was on RC4, should have checked for RC4A ;)

^ I was on RC4, should have checked for RC4A ;)
230
#230
cp_sunshine, cp_cardinal
23 Frags +

Hi,

I'm planning an RC5 update to Reckoner. I am not returning to the community, but I would like to hear what everyone considers to be aspects of the map that could do with change in a new version.

The new version will be out in January 2020 alongside an update to Cardinal. This date is not subject to change so I would appreciate all feedback to be in before December. If there isn't interest or enough feedback, I'll take that as a sign that my time is best spent elsewhere. The update will focus on feedback posted in this thread, so please don't leave out things because they were said in a different thread 6 months ago. All feedback from bug fixes to major layout issues are welcome.

If you've tried/are trying to contact me about this map over Steam, please post feedback here instead.

Cheers

Hi,

I'm planning an RC5 update to Reckoner. I am not returning to the community, but I would like to hear what everyone considers to be aspects of the map that could do with change in a new version.

The new version will be out in [b]January 2020[/b] alongside an update to [url=https://www.teamfortress.tv/35238/cp-cardinal-5cp]Cardinal[/url]. This date is not subject to change so I would appreciate all feedback to be in before December. If there isn't interest or enough feedback, I'll take that as a sign that my time is best spent elsewhere. The update will focus on feedback posted [b]in this thread[/b], so please don't leave out things because they were said in a different thread 6 months ago. All feedback from bug fixes to major layout issues are welcome.

If you've tried/are trying to contact me about this map over Steam, please post feedback here instead.

Cheers
231
#231
21 Frags +

Here's my feedback for RC4A.

1. Move or remove redundant health/ammo packs.
In lobby there are small health/ammo right around the corner from the medium health/ammo and it feels redundant. Moving the small packs closer to the entrances to last, or removing them entirely would probably be fine.

https://i.imgur.com/udooLKE.jpg

2. Add an additional path to exiting last.
It is very difficult to push out of the last point lobby because all of the current 3 doorways can be spammed from the shack position on the point. Further, the upper doorway is directly facing the point so it is a highly spammed door, the shutter is easily trapped or people can hide outside of it, and the lower entrance puts you at an extreme height disadvantage. Drawing inspiration from snakewater, with its 4 exits from last, I suggest adding a new exit from upper lobby out to the forward spawn balcony. A door here most importantly would not be easily controlled from the shack position, and would serve to help people pushing out of last to draw eyes away from the other main choke points.

https://i.imgur.com/e1eOZ99.jpg

Another option, could be a vent connecting through the large block here that leads out to the balcony. I could see it even being a 1 way door, only being useful pushing out of the building and not letting people in from the balcony, so that it doesn't introduce any issues with defending the lobby or backcaps.

https://i.imgur.com/bdtaXXV.jpg

3. Reduce the size of the fence above the 2nd point.
Right now the shed is an incredibly powerful position to defend 2nd from and to spam all the choke points, but you are so well shielded from any return spam because of the fence next to it. You can easily use the shed as cover and just shoot over it, while leaving little of your body exposed, and most crucially without much of the surface of the shed being exposed. By reducing the size of the shed a little bit (shown in red), you could reveal more of the top of the shed, leaving open a sightline for spam and splash to be sent from lobby to help to dislodge anyone sitting there (yellow). This would still block the majority of the sniper sightline from the upper exit across to the flank path.

https://i.imgur.com/UI7REIC.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/qYkKGsJ.jpg

4. Remove the clipping on the small rail next to the mid house dropdown.
You currently get stuck on this railing, which hinders the flow of using the dropdown.

https://i.imgur.com/Ajdnplh.jpg

5. Utilize the space under the bridge on mid.
I personally preferred having the point on the low ground because it introduced unique dynamics of risk/reward when going for cap time. But even if you decide to keep the point on the top of the bridge, I think something should be under there just to give some sort of incentive to ever go down there, since the stairways are pretty cool anyways and it would be a shame to see them completely unused. Even a small health pack under the point would probably suffice.

https://i.imgur.com/Fmf5y9j.jpg

Hope it helps. Good luck.

Here's my feedback for RC4A.

1. [b]Move or remove redundant health/ammo packs.[/b]
In lobby there are small health/ammo right around the corner from the medium health/ammo and it feels redundant. Moving the small packs closer to the entrances to last, or removing them entirely would probably be fine.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/udooLKE.jpg[/img]

2. [b]Add an additional path to exiting last.[/b]
It is very difficult to push out of the last point lobby because all of the current 3 doorways can be spammed from the shack position on the point. Further, the upper doorway is directly facing the point so it is a highly spammed door, the shutter is easily trapped or people can hide outside of it, and the lower entrance puts you at an extreme height disadvantage. Drawing inspiration from snakewater, with its 4 exits from last, I suggest adding a new exit from upper lobby out to the forward spawn balcony. A door here most importantly would not be easily controlled from the shack position, and would serve to help people pushing out of last to draw eyes away from the other main choke points.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/e1eOZ99.jpg[/img]
Another option, could be a vent connecting through the large block here that leads out to the balcony. I could see it even being a 1 way door, only being useful pushing out of the building and not letting people in from the balcony, so that it doesn't introduce any issues with defending the lobby or backcaps.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/bdtaXXV.jpg[/img]

3. [b]Reduce the size of the fence above the 2nd point.[/b]
Right now the shed is an incredibly powerful position to defend 2nd from and to spam all the choke points, but you are so well shielded from any return spam because of the fence next to it. You can easily use the shed as cover and just shoot over it, while leaving little of your body exposed, and most crucially without much of the surface of the shed being exposed. By reducing the size of the shed a little bit (shown in red), you could reveal more of the top of the shed, leaving open a sightline for spam and splash to be sent from lobby to help to dislodge anyone sitting there (yellow). This would still block the majority of the sniper sightline from the upper exit across to the flank path.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/UI7REIC.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/qYkKGsJ.jpg[/img]

4. [b]Remove the clipping on the small rail next to the mid house dropdown.[/b]
You currently get stuck on this railing, which hinders the flow of using the dropdown.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/Ajdnplh.jpg[/img]

5. [b]Utilize the space under the bridge on mid.[/b]
I personally preferred having the point on the low ground because it introduced unique dynamics of risk/reward when going for cap time. But even if you decide to keep the point on the top of the bridge, I think something should be under there just to give some sort of incentive to ever go down there, since the stairways are pretty cool anyways and it would be a shame to see them completely unused. Even a small health pack under the point would probably suffice.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/Fmf5y9j.jpg[/img]

Hope it helps. Good luck.
232
#232
4 Frags +

Some points I've heard from people in ETF2L regarding RC2. Move the last point forward so its not so close to the spawn as it is currently. Maybe widen toxic entrance to 2nd so its easier to get through and sac or dry push. Move the point on mid to be on the bridge instead of under (I think this has been done in rc4?). I agree with B4nny about putting a small healthpack under the point on mid. I'll edit this post if I think of more things. Thanks for updating the map!

Edit: I think moving the spawns back and keeping the point where it is could be better than moving the point forward

Some points I've heard from people in ETF2L regarding RC2. Move the last point forward so its not so close to the spawn as it is currently. Maybe widen toxic entrance to 2nd so its easier to get through and sac or dry push. Move the point on mid to be on the bridge instead of under (I think this has been done in rc4?). I agree with B4nny about putting a small healthpack under the point on mid. I'll edit this post if I think of more things. Thanks for updating the map!

Edit: I think moving the spawns back and keeping the point where it is could be better than moving the point forward
233
#233
-4 Frags +

Maybe I've missed some information about the reasoning behind this, but I never understood the area around the forward spawn on 2nd. You can't stand on top of the roof above the forward spawn. To the right there's an opening where you can jump up, but you can't jump over the beam. Maybe you wanted to prevent players from standing on top of the beam, but in that case you can place a roof above the entire high ground in front of the forward spawn.

https://i.imgur.com/vl92kcj.jpg

b4nny
2. Add an additional path to exiting last.
I suggest adding a new exit from upper lobby out to the forward spawn balcony. A door here most importantly would not be easily controlled from the shack position, and would serve to help people pushing out of last to draw eyes away from the other main choke points.

Another option, could be a vent connecting through the large block here that leads out to the balcony. I could see it even being a 1 way door, only being useful pushing out of the building and not letting people in from the balcony, so that it doesn't introduce any issues with defending the lobby or backcaps.

I do like the idea of having a new exit from lobby to second, but I'm not really sure about a 1 way door. If the defending team tries to forward hold in lobby, you can have a sniper at that 1 way door so the only class that can deal with that is a demo with stickies.
Something I liked about logjam is the window/dropdown top-left. And I feel like something like that could also work on reckoner. On the picture below, everyone from the defending team can access this dropdown from lobby, while the attacking team can only reach it with a soldier or demo. This way the area in front of the forward spawn makes more sense with the invisible barrier above the beam. If the hallway to the dropdown is narrow, you can easily spam it so a sniper from lobby can get pressured.

https://i.imgur.com/4XWa02h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/N8I0n2m.jpg

But yeah this is just an idea, maybe there are some important issues about this that I'm not thinking off.

Maybe I've missed some information about the reasoning behind this, but I never understood the area around the forward spawn on 2nd. You can't stand on top of the roof above the forward spawn. To the right there's an opening where you can jump up, but you can't jump over the beam. Maybe you wanted to prevent players from standing on top of the beam, but in that case you can place a roof above the entire high ground in front of the forward spawn.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/vl92kcj.jpg[/img]

[quote=b4nny]

2. [b]Add an additional path to exiting last.[/b]
I suggest adding a new exit from upper lobby out to the forward spawn balcony. A door here most importantly would not be easily controlled from the shack position, and would serve to help people pushing out of last to draw eyes away from the other main choke points.

Another option, could be a vent connecting through the large block here that leads out to the balcony. I could see it even being a 1 way door, only being useful pushing out of the building and not letting people in from the balcony, so that it doesn't introduce any issues with defending the lobby or backcaps.
[/quote]

I do like the idea of having a new exit from lobby to second, but I'm not really sure about a 1 way door. If the defending team tries to forward hold in lobby, you can have a sniper at that 1 way door so the only class that can deal with that is a demo with stickies.
Something I liked about logjam is the window/dropdown top-left. And I feel like something like that could also work on reckoner. On the picture below, everyone from the defending team can access this dropdown from lobby, while the attacking team can only reach it with a soldier or demo. This way the area in front of the forward spawn makes more sense with the invisible barrier above the beam. If the hallway to the dropdown is narrow, you can easily spam it so a sniper from lobby can get pressured.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/4XWa02h.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/N8I0n2m.jpg[/img]

But yeah this is just an idea, maybe there are some important issues about this that I'm not thinking off.
234
#234
DM Servers
0 Frags +

please remove (or make way less bright) the entity that makes it so that you get completely blinded when looking in a certain direction upwards

https://i.imgur.com/EGBktdA.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/K5dGXao.jpg

i don't remember if it's env_sun or what but it's incredibly distracting, and it's not symmetrical either so if you're on one side of mid and you look up you get blinded and on the other you don't

please remove (or make way less bright) the entity that makes it so that you get completely blinded when looking in a certain direction upwards

[img]https://i.imgur.com/EGBktdA.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/K5dGXao.jpg[/img]

i don't remember if it's env_sun or what but it's incredibly distracting, and it's not symmetrical either so if you're on one side of mid and you look up you get blinded and on the other you don't
235
#235
2 Frags +

Keep in mind a lot of the things I'm writing in this comment is subjective. Some parts are maybe too brain-stormy.

- The Old Toxic.
Personally I prefer the old toxic. I realize the change to the current "hangar" style was at least partially made to conceal the control point from snipers hiding in toxic. I haven't played much of reckoner since its removal from etf2l, but it feels like the flank is underused/harder to use because the path to mid is longer. I wouldn't mind changing the flank back if it means putting the point under the bridge again.

- The Dropdown.
I'm not entirely sure why the dropdown was added, but to me it seems to functionally shut down the under area as a valid flanking route. It's already hard to walk into both second and mid from there, and now whoever controls cargo will be able to shut down that form of counterplay. If you decide to keep the dropdown I would also like the railing removed.

Basically, in my opinion these changes would make the map feel more dynamic again, as both the flanks would be more viable to use between mid and second.

- The cargo entrance to second.
In order to reduce stalemates in this area, consider opening up the ceiling similar to what was done outside of sawroom on snakewater. There are two doors. My suggestion is to remove the roof outside the first door, so people can more easily bomb an attacking team as well as making space while bombing in. Another thing that could be done is to raise the ceiling in the second room and make the door taller. That would have a similar effect, but smaller. (Another option might be, similarly to snake, add some sort of window. [note that this might not be compatible with the window idea from lobby to second]). And while we're on that topic...

- The new proposed "vent" towards second.
I don't disagree with the idea completely, but I think having the exit so close to it might make backcaps more likely. With 4 total exits to a wiide lobby, with an open exit to the last point could be troublesome. Better to add the exit somewhere in between the current ones, even if that will be easier to spot for the people controlling the fourth control point. My suggesting is adding some sort of balcony similar to the one looking over second point on foundry. It may end up being stupidly powerful, but it could also be a dropdown, or the exit could lead to the floor level instead. If these ideas don't work perhaps making one of the two upper exits a lot bigger or more open will work.

- The empty space next to the greenhouse on second.
I would reduce it since it's not really necessary.

Now commenting on some other ideas.
- I am fond of the idea to put health packs under the midpoint, maybe one small under each staircase? Or if you decide to keep the point on top of the bridge, one in the middle.
- Moving the last point forward a bit, like alba suggested, is good in my opinion. It is a bit too easy to defend last. Perhaps the cap time could be reduced by some tenths of a second if you prefer that.

Thanks for working on this map and especially for taking the time to push another update.

Keep in mind a lot of the things I'm writing in this comment is subjective. Some parts are maybe too brain-stormy.

[b]- The Old Toxic.[/b]
Personally I prefer the old toxic. I realize the change to the current "hangar" style was at least partially made to conceal the control point from snipers hiding in toxic. I haven't played much of reckoner since its removal from etf2l, but it feels like the flank is [u]underused/harder to use because the path to mid is longer.[/u] I wouldn't mind changing the flank back if it means putting the point under the bridge again.

[b]- The Dropdown.[/b]
I'm not entirely sure why the dropdown was added, but to me it seems to functionally shut down the under area as a valid flanking route. It's already hard to walk into both second and mid from there, and now [u]whoever controls cargo will be able to shut down that form of counterplay.[/u] If you decide to keep the dropdown I would also like the railing removed.

Basically, in my opinion these changes would make the map feel more dynamic again, as both the flanks would be more viable to use between mid and second.

[b]- The cargo entrance to second. [/b]
[u]In order to reduce stalemates in this area, consider opening up the ceiling[/u] similar to what was done outside of sawroom on snakewater. There are two doors. My suggestion is to remove the roof outside the first door, so people can more easily bomb an attacking team as well as making space while bombing in. Another thing that could be done is to raise the ceiling in the second room and make the door taller. That would have a similar effect, but smaller. (Another option might be, similarly to snake, add some sort of window. [note that this might not be compatible with the window idea from lobby to second]). And while we're on that topic...

[b]- The new proposed "vent" towards second.[/b]
I don't disagree with the idea completely, but I think having the exit so close to it might make backcaps more likely. With 4 total exits to a wiide lobby, with an open exit to the last point could be troublesome. Better to add the exit somewhere in between the current ones, even if that will be easier to spot for the people controlling the fourth control point. My suggesting is adding some sort of balcony similar to the one looking over second point on foundry. It may end up being stupidly powerful, but it could also be a dropdown, or the exit could lead to the floor level instead. If these ideas don't work perhaps making one of the two upper exits a lot bigger or more open will work.

[b]- The empty space next to the greenhouse on second.[/b]
I would reduce it since it's not really necessary.

[b]Now commenting on some other ideas.[/b]
- I am fond of the idea to put health packs under the midpoint, maybe one small under each staircase? Or if you decide to keep the point on top of the bridge, one in the middle.
- Moving the last point forward a bit, like alba suggested, is good in my opinion. It is a bit too easy to defend last. Perhaps the cap time could be reduced by some tenths of a second if you prefer that.

Thanks for working on this map and especially for taking the time to push another update.
236
#236
cp_sunshine, cp_cardinal
8 Frags +

New version of Reckoner should be out around the new year. The changes above have been taken into consideration, major changes will be to toxic, the proposed additional route into second from lobby, the opening of cargo's door, removing the dropdown (didn't encourage good gameplay). Plenty of other minor changes as well.

The one change I am unsure about is to mid. Originally, the decision to put the point on top of the bridge was to see if it would create better gameplay, but I don't believe that is happening much. Alongside the major toxic changes, I'm considering putting the point back on the low ground, and would like opinions.

If you don't agree with the decision to put the mid point back on the low ground, now's the time to pipe up. Not gonna be taking too many days to get the update out, so the quicker the better. If I don't hear anything, I'm just going to go with my gut instinct and put the point back where it was on the low ground.

Cheers

New version of Reckoner should be out around the new year. The changes above have been taken into consideration, major changes will be to toxic, the proposed additional route into second from lobby, the opening of cargo's door, removing the dropdown (didn't encourage good gameplay). Plenty of other minor changes as well.

The one change I am unsure about is to mid. Originally, the decision to put the point on top of the bridge was to see if it would create better gameplay, but I don't believe that is happening much. Alongside the major toxic changes, I'm considering putting the point back on the low ground, and would like opinions.

If you don't agree with the decision to put the mid point back on the low ground, now's the time to pipe up. Not gonna be taking too many days to get the update out, so the quicker the better. If I don't hear anything, I'm just going to go with my gut instinct and put the point back where it was on the low ground.

Cheers
237
#237
9 Frags +

I liked mid on low ground personally because it offered a choice between fighting and capping and it incentivized refighting mid when spawning. Also I'm glad you're continuing to work on this map, one of my favourites to play on in seasons 25/26.

I liked mid on low ground personally because it offered a choice between fighting and capping and it incentivized refighting mid when spawning. Also I'm glad you're continuing to work on this map, one of my favourites to play on in seasons 25/26.
238
#238
-2 Frags +

point on low ground was what made the mid interesting to me, but if u dont wanna go fully back to that doing low ground + increased visibility when capping could be a good middle ground?

point on low ground was what made the mid interesting to me, but if u dont wanna go fully back to that doing low ground + increased visibility when capping could be a good middle ground?
239
#239
1 Frags +
Collaidestuff

Come to think of it, I kinda spoke too confidently on the map.

I'm hyped for the changes though, keep up the good work!

[quote=Collaide]stuff[/quote]
Come to think of it, I kinda spoke too confidently on the map.

I'm hyped for the changes though, keep up the good work!
240
#240
cp_sunshine, cp_cardinal
17 Frags +

cp_reckoner_rc5

DOWNLOAD RC5

The long-awaited new update is here! All sorts of polish and some important layout changes.

Changelog:

- Mid is back under the bridge, baby!
---- Alongside this, the two small healthkits on mid have been moved to the stairwell areas, rather than on the grass.
- Toxic has been completely redone!
---- It now comes out in the old location, but with a much nicer route to push through.
---- WAY higher ceilings
---- Side area for dodging spam
---- The forward spawn had to move, so it's got a new area
---- There's a little ledge in front of the forward to stand on now
---- Medium ammo moved to little nook beneath forward
- New route added between Lobby and Second!
---- This has been much-requested, should be good
---- Nice big doors too
- Doors from cargo into second have been embiggened
- Dropdown has been removed
- Last has been moved forward a bit.
---- Can still move spawns back if necessary, but it'll be a lot of work, so might have to happen at a later date
- Dead zone near second moved in a little
- Redundant pickups in lobby removed
- Lighting changes all around

Hope y'all have fun, let me know if anything's broken and I'll get a fix out shortly.

Screenshots:

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20200103154443_1-jpg.116378/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20200103154506_1-jpg.116379/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20200103154506_1-jpg.116380/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20200103154506_1-jpg.116381/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20200103154506_1-jpg.116382/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20200103154506_1-jpg.116383/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20200103154506_1-jpg.116384/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20200103154506_1-jpg.116385/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20200103154506_1-jpg.116386/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20200103154506_1-jpg.116388/

[b]cp_reckoner_rc5[/b]

[url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/reckoner.974/download?version=22282]DOWNLOAD RC5[/url]

The long-awaited new update is here! All sorts of polish and some important layout changes.

Changelog:

- Mid is back under the bridge, baby!
---- Alongside this, the two small healthkits on mid have been moved to the stairwell areas, rather than on the grass.
- Toxic has been completely redone!
---- It now comes out in the old location, but with a much nicer route to push through.
---- WAY higher ceilings
---- Side area for dodging spam
---- The forward spawn had to move, so it's got a new area
---- There's a little ledge in front of the forward to stand on now
---- Medium ammo moved to little nook beneath forward
- New route added between Lobby and Second!
---- This has been much-requested, should be good
---- Nice big doors too
- Doors from cargo into second have been embiggened
- Dropdown has been removed
- Last has been moved forward a bit.
---- Can still move spawns back if necessary, but it'll be a lot of work, so might have to happen at a later date
- Dead zone near second moved in a little
- Redundant pickups in lobby removed
- Lighting changes all around

Hope y'all have fun, let me know if anything's broken and I'll get a fix out shortly.

Screenshots:
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20200103154443_1-jpg.116378/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20200103154506_1-jpg.116379/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20200103154506_1-jpg.116380/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20200103154506_1-jpg.116381/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20200103154506_1-jpg.116382/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20200103154506_1-jpg.116383/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20200103154506_1-jpg.116384/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20200103154506_1-jpg.116385/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20200103154506_1-jpg.116386/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20200103154506_1-jpg.116388/[/img]
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