The Team Fortress Competitive League (TFCL) is once again, and officially this time, announcing our plans to bring the league back from the dead. Consider this thread a sort of info-dump + official TFTV announcement of our revival.
Here's an article we published last month with more information - https://tfcleague.com/news/are-we-still-dark/
We will also be writing up a more official article on the site in the coming days.
---
Features
---
TFCL has a number of notable features and functions, many of which are exclusive (or done first) to TFCL.
Pick up Games
We're building a custom PUG platform that is very heavily integrated into the core of the TFCL experience. You don't need to rely on Discord to host and manage PUGs, nor will you need to go to a separate website. It's all done at the league level.
Automated Scrim Scheduling
We're creating a custom scrim automation platform, allowing for teams to automatically get paired with other teams of a similar rank. As the Team Leader, you can define and set multiple criteria for the scheduler, ensuring that you always have a fair and balanced scrim at any hour on any day of your choosing. This may especially be useful for lower level teams who may not have the connections with other team leaders built up quite yet.
Global Server Network
If you're familiar with the days of ESEA, you're likely going to find that our server network is relatively similar, in that every match is hosted by the league, allowing for you to simply hop into the server and play. No more need to manually record match scores, or fiddle with rcon commands. That's all done for you. Of course, we're not ESEA, and our server network isn't restricted to the United States. (don't even get me started on the Texas server routing issues)
TFCL will automatically provision a server for every single activity that we provide, whether it's an official match server, a scrim server, or a server for your PUG. We host it all from our end, in any of our global server locations. From Toronto to Sydney, and Los Angelas to Tokyo. Plus Europe too, for good measure. TFCL is a truly global platform.
As a bonus, our server network is free to use. You can even reserve a server for third party leagues and tournaments, or just to have fun with a few friends.
Cups, Tournaments, Seasons
Due to the size of our seasonal prize pools, TFCL's primary focus won't actually be on the traditional seasonal structure that every other TF2 league has historically used. Instead, we're focusing on smaller cups and tournaments, such as a 32 team weekend cup with a $6,000 prize pool, or a single-day Ultiduo tournament with a $2,000 prize pool. We want for you to have something to compete in, at all levels, at all times.
Prize Pools
We are opting to run TFCL at a loss, so that we can do our very best to offer the highest prize pools in the history of TF2 esports. Each and every sixes season that we host will have a minimum pool of $40,000 dollars, which doesn't even account for the previously mentioned cups and tournaments, with most of them having their own individual pool and prize system.
Match Making Service
If you just want to play a round of 12v12 Upward, we're also providing a match making service, similar to Valve's own service built into TF2. We're still playing around with TFCL MM, and are aiming to offer a consistent server pool at all hours of the day.
Host Your Own Stuff
Whether it's a small thing for your Discord group, or a large YouTuber cup. We're making it possible for everyone to host their own competitions through TFCL. You define the rules, the maps, and other tournament criteria, and we'll take care of the heavy lifting. We may even provide you with access to our in-game medals, assuming a certain criteria is met.
Advanced Analytics
We're building a very detailed analytics platform, one that tracks pretty much everything you do within the world of TF2. TFCL AA (name pending, of course) goes far beyond something like demos.tf or logs.tf. But how is this going to be used? Why even bother with advanced tracking to begin with?
Simply put, we will be using our analytics to create a playstyle profile on every single person that competes within TFCL. We will track every bomb, every kill, every shot that you make. We will track your positioning, your accuracy, and even have the ability to offer up feedback on why a certain play of yours didn't work as expected. Are you the problem, or is it your team? This is a common question, and the current mentor and coaching system that we have today just isn't capable of answering that.
League Structure - Divisions, Fees, And Pools
TFCL's competitive ranking system can be broken down into five ranks.
S Rank = ESEA Invite, RGL Invite
A Rank = ESEA Intermediate, RGL Advanced
B Rank = ESEA Open, RGL Main & Lower
C Rank = RGL Intermediate & Amateur
D Rank = RGL Newcomer
We also charge seasonal or event fees, with the amount varying by rank.
S Rank - $80
A Rank - $40
B Rank - $15
C Rank – No Fee
D Rank – No Fee
And of course, we have the pools. The below prize pool breakdown is for a typical sixes season within TFCL.
S Rank - $23,000
A Rank - $10,000
B Rank - $6,000
C Rank - $1,000
D Rank - $0
Fees and pools for cups and tournaments will be different.
---
I think that's it for now. We'll of course announce more stuff at a later date.
Oh, speaking of dates.
Release Date
We will be launching later this year, and will begin public testing of some of our core systems within the coming months. More on that later.
The Team Fortress Competitive League (TFCL) is once again, and officially this time, announcing our plans to bring the league back from the dead. [b]Consider this thread a sort of info-dump + official TFTV announcement of our revival.[/b]
Here's an article we published last month with more information - https://tfcleague.com/news/are-we-still-dark/
We will also be writing up a more official article on the site in the coming days.
---
Features
---
TFCL has a number of notable features and functions, many of which are exclusive (or done first) to TFCL.
[b]Pick up Games[/b]
We're building a custom PUG platform that is very heavily integrated into the core of the TFCL experience. You don't need to rely on Discord to host and manage PUGs, nor will you need to go to a separate website. It's all done at the league level.
[b]Automated Scrim Scheduling[/b]
We're creating a custom scrim automation platform, allowing for teams to automatically get paired with other teams of a similar rank. As the Team Leader, you can define and set multiple criteria for the scheduler, ensuring that you always have a fair and balanced scrim at any hour on any day of your choosing. This may especially be useful for lower level teams who may not have the connections with other team leaders built up quite yet.
[b]Global Server Network[/b]
If you're familiar with the days of ESEA, you're likely going to find that our server network is relatively similar, in that every match is hosted by the league, allowing for you to simply hop into the server and play. No more need to manually record match scores, or fiddle with rcon commands. That's all done for you. Of course, we're not ESEA, and our server network isn't restricted to the United States. (don't even get me started on the Texas server routing issues)
TFCL will automatically provision a server for every single activity that we provide, whether it's an official match server, a scrim server, or a server for your PUG. We host it all from our end, in any of our global server locations. From Toronto to Sydney, and Los Angelas to Tokyo. Plus Europe too, for good measure. TFCL is a truly global platform.
As a bonus, our server network is free to use. You can even reserve a server for third party leagues and tournaments, or just to have fun with a few friends.
[b]Cups, Tournaments, Seasons[/b]
Due to the size of our seasonal prize pools, TFCL's primary focus won't actually be on the traditional seasonal structure that every other TF2 league has historically used. Instead, we're focusing on smaller cups and tournaments, such as a 32 team weekend cup with a $6,000 prize pool, or a single-day Ultiduo tournament with a $2,000 prize pool. We want for you to have something to compete in, at all levels, at all times.
[b]Prize Pools[/b]
We are opting to run TFCL at a loss, so that we can do our very best to offer the highest prize pools in the history of TF2 esports. [b]Each and every sixes season that we host will have a minimum pool of $40,000 dollars, [/b] which doesn't even account for the previously mentioned cups and tournaments, with most of them having their own individual pool and prize system.
[b]Match Making Service[/b]
If you just want to play a round of 12v12 Upward, we're also providing a match making service, similar to Valve's own service built into TF2. We're still playing around with TFCL MM, and are aiming to offer a consistent server pool at all hours of the day.
[b]Host Your Own Stuff[/b]
Whether it's a small thing for your Discord group, or a large YouTuber cup. We're making it possible for everyone to host their own competitions through TFCL. You define the rules, the maps, and other tournament criteria, and we'll take care of the heavy lifting. We may even provide you with access to our in-game medals, assuming a certain criteria is met.
[b]Advanced Analytics[/b]
We're building a very detailed analytics platform, one that tracks pretty much everything you do within the world of TF2. TFCL AA (name pending, of course) goes far beyond something like demos.tf or logs.tf. But how is this going to be used? Why even bother with advanced tracking to begin with?
Simply put, we will be using our analytics to create a playstyle profile on every single person that competes within TFCL. We will track every bomb, every kill, every shot that you make. We will track your positioning, your accuracy, and even have the ability to offer up feedback on [i]why[/i] a certain play of yours didn't work as expected. [i]Are you the problem, or is it your team?[/i] This is a common question, and the current mentor and coaching system that we have today just isn't capable of answering that.
[b]League Structure - Divisions, Fees, And Pools[/b]
TFCL's competitive ranking system can be broken down into five ranks.
S Rank = ESEA Invite, RGL Invite
A Rank = ESEA Intermediate, RGL Advanced
B Rank = ESEA Open, RGL Main & Lower
C Rank = RGL Intermediate & Amateur
D Rank = RGL Newcomer
We also charge seasonal or event fees, with the amount varying by rank.
S Rank - $80
A Rank - $40
B Rank - $15
C Rank – No Fee
D Rank – No Fee
And of course, we have the pools. The below prize pool breakdown is for a typical sixes season within TFCL.
S Rank - $23,000
A Rank - $10,000
B Rank - $6,000
C Rank - $1,000
D Rank - $0
[i]Fees and pools for cups and tournaments will be different. [/i]
---
I think that's it for now. We'll of course announce more stuff at a later date.
Oh, speaking of dates.
[b]Release Date[/b]
We will be launching later this year, and will begin public testing of some of our core systems within the coming months. More on that later.
I love the stuff listed here, but I have a few concerns about it.
1. Monetarily, TFC will be at a loss (as mentioned), how will the league sustain itself after its been up for a year or 2? Is funding already secured for the prize pools?
2. Regarding 12v12 matchmaking, im worried it will be the same thing as faceit 12v12 in 2020/2021 (shortlived)
3. How will TFC address the shrinking competitive community size and be able to pull "fresh meat" into the competitive scene?
This all seems really awesome and I would love it if it were to come to pass. I would definitely be way more motivated to play if a league like this were around. (btw i love the S-D ranking system, its pretty intuitive)
I love the stuff listed here, but I have a few concerns about it.
1. Monetarily, TFC will be at a loss (as mentioned), how will the league sustain itself after its been up for a year or 2? Is funding already secured for the prize pools?
2. Regarding 12v12 matchmaking, im worried it will be the same thing as faceit 12v12 in 2020/2021 (shortlived)
3. How will TFC address the shrinking competitive community size and be able to pull "fresh meat" into the competitive scene?
This all seems really awesome and I would love it if it were to come to pass. I would definitely be way more motivated to play if a league like this were around. (btw i love the S-D ranking system, its pretty intuitive)
1. Monetarily, TFC will be at a loss (as mentioned), how will the league sustain itself after its been up for a year or 2? Is funding already secured for the prize pools?
I'll have a proper article out regarding funding and how we can actually afford all of this, but in short; TFCL is a product of a business that I run. My other assets are relatively profitable, to a point where I can more or less just throw money at TFCL and still make a profit overall. League fees help as well of course, but even if every single person in TF2's comp scene played in TFCL, we'd still lose a fair bit each season / month. Currently estimating a loss of $100k per year.
2. Regarding 12v12 matchmaking, im worried it will be the same thing as faceit 12v12 in 2020/2021 (shortlived)
It's best to think of this more as an Uncletopia sort of thing, rather than Faceit, though I suppose the premise is the same. I can't actually guarantee that this will be successful, as that sort of depends on the size of TFCL and how many daily active users we end up having. I know this isa bit of a non-answer, but to be honest, I don't have a full and proper answer at this time.
3. How will TFC address the shrinking competitive community size and be able to pull "fresh meat" into the competitive scene?
Primarily through extensive marketing efforts. I have access to a promotional network (internal) of between 1.3 and 3.5 million monthly. Beyond that, I have a fair number of media connections with some major news websites and organizations. Promoting TFCL (and with it, competitive TF2) is one of my primary goals here, and I'll use every possible method I can to ensure that TF2 itself can grow as an esport.
[quote]1. Monetarily, TFC will be at a loss (as mentioned), how will the league sustain itself after its been up for a year or 2? Is funding already secured for the prize pools?[/quote]
I'll have a proper article out regarding funding and how we can actually afford all of this, but in short; TFCL is a product of a business that I run. My other assets are relatively profitable, to a point where I can more or less just throw money at TFCL and still make a profit overall. League fees help as well of course, but even if every single person in TF2's comp scene played in TFCL, we'd still lose a fair bit each season / month. Currently estimating a loss of $100k per year.
[quote]2. Regarding 12v12 matchmaking, im worried it will be the same thing as faceit 12v12 in 2020/2021 (shortlived)[/quote]
It's best to think of this more as an Uncletopia sort of thing, rather than Faceit, though I suppose the premise is the same. I can't actually guarantee that this will be successful, as that sort of depends on the size of TFCL and how many daily active users we end up having. I know this isa bit of a non-answer, but to be honest, I don't have a full and proper answer at this time.
[quote]3. How will TFC address the shrinking competitive community size and be able to pull "fresh meat" into the competitive scene?[/quote]
Primarily through extensive marketing efforts. I have access to a promotional network (internal) of between 1.3 and 3.5 million monthly. Beyond that, I have a fair number of media connections with some major news websites and organizations. Promoting TFCL (and with it, competitive TF2) is one of my primary goals here, and I'll use every possible method I can to ensure that TF2 itself can grow as an esport.
SidularAnd of course, we have the pools. The below prize pool breakdown is for a typical sixes season within TFCL.
S Rank - $23,000
A Rank - $10,000
B Rank - $6,000
C Rank - $1,000
D Rank - $0
So the winning invite team will get like $12000? every season? if so that's insane and we should all just play this instead of RGL
also if you have this much money to spend on a league, why not just buy RGL?
[quote=Sidular]
And of course, we have the pools. The below prize pool breakdown is for a typical sixes season within TFCL.
S Rank - $23,000
A Rank - $10,000
B Rank - $6,000
C Rank - $1,000
D Rank - $0[/quote]So the winning invite team will get like $12000? every season? if so that's insane and we should all just play this instead of RGL
also if you have this much money to spend on a league, why not just buy RGL?
JwSo the winning invite team will get like $12000? every season? if so that's insane and we should all just play this instead of RGL
The exact breakdowns aren't fully finalized yet, but essentially yes. It would work out to something like that.
Jwalso if you have this much money, why not just buy RGL?
There's a bit of a history there, and an offer was made back when sigafoo ran things. It didn't work out.
[quote=Jw]So the winning invite team will get like $12000? every season? if so that's insane and we should all just play this instead of RGL[/quote]
The exact breakdowns aren't fully finalized yet, but essentially yes. It would work out to something like that.
[quote=Jw]also if you have this much money, why not just buy RGL?[/quote]
There's a bit of a history there, and an offer was made back when sigafoo ran things. It didn't work out.
Pick up Games
This would be similar to the current RGL pug system?
Automated Scrim Scheduling
Has anyone actually asked for this? As you stated this might be useful for newer players, but it takes a couple seconds for a Newcomer TL to estimate the skill level of other teams. There are times where I want to play a lower division team when trying a new roster or playing off classes. There are times where I want to play a higher division team that might end up rolling me. Would the league still provide discord information of TL's to contact them and setup scrims?
Advanced Analytics
Why even bother with advanced tracking to begin with?
No seriously what is even the purpose of this? More.tf does this already. Would this be a better and more premium version of more.tf? Something closer to leetify? Will there be a charge for premium features like leetify?
[quote]Pick up Games[/quote]
This would be similar to the current RGL pug system?
[quote]Automated Scrim Scheduling[/quote]
Has anyone actually asked for this? As you stated this might be useful for newer players, but it takes a couple seconds for a Newcomer TL to estimate the skill level of other teams. There are times where I want to play a lower division team when trying a new roster or playing off classes. There are times where I want to play a higher division team that might end up rolling me. Would the league still provide discord information of TL's to contact them and setup scrims?
[quote]Advanced Analytics
Why even bother with advanced tracking to begin with?[/quote]
No seriously what is even the purpose of this? More.tf does this already. Would this be a better and more premium version of more.tf? Something closer to [b]leetify[/b]? Will there be a charge for premium features like leetify?
cautiously optimistic about the future of this endeavor
cautiously optimistic about the future of this endeavor
This would be similar to the current RGL pug system?
Similar to the extent that a pug system is still just a pug system. We're doing things a bit differently by hooking it into the league at a very core level, but yes. It is still a pug platform by the end of the day.
Has anyone actually asked for this?
Yes, actually. Finding scrims at or below Main is pretty difficult, and relies on Discord and manually asking TLs if they want to scrim. You need to schedule it, grab a server, and configure everything yourself. It's just not a very welcoming experience for newer players, especially when you take into account the risk of having an inexperienced TL scheduling against another team that is far beyond your skill level. It happens a lot, and this platform would effectively eliminate that risk.
As for playing a higher div, or a team that you know for a fact will 5-0 you? You can do that using our platform, and manually choose to scrim higher teams. Plus, there's absolutely no requirement that you must without a doubt rely entirely on TFCL to host your scrims. You can always just do what you do right now and manually get things organized through Discord. So really, this is just there for those that want or maybe need a more streamlined experience. To take the weight off, so to speak.
We're mostly doing this platform for newer teams and players, with a heavy focus on ease of use and growth. Relying on multiple services and platforms to get a scrim going really isn't ideal. If anything, it just adds extra unnecessary steps to what could otherwise be a very simple process.
As for the advanced analytics stuff, our main goal here is to track as much stuff as possible. Stuff that goes beyond demos.tf or logs.tf. We're basically creating a dynamic ELO system based on your player performance at a class and even weapon level, and using this to assist in sandbag prevention and divisional placements. There are a few other neat things that we can do with this as well, but it's too early to make them public. Let's just say there's a lot of potential here, both for providing basic stat tracking, as well as offering up something that could be used to legitimately assist in a players growth.
Also the service is free. No paywall or anything of the sort, we want this data to be publicly accessible.
[quote]This would be similar to the current RGL pug system?[/quote]
Similar to the extent that a pug system is still just a pug system. We're doing things a bit differently by hooking it into the league at a very core level, but yes. It is still a pug platform by the end of the day.
[quote]Has anyone actually asked for this? [/quote]
Yes, actually. Finding scrims at or below Main is pretty difficult, and relies on Discord and manually asking TLs if they want to scrim. You need to schedule it, grab a server, and configure everything yourself. It's just not a very welcoming experience for newer players, especially when you take into account the risk of having an inexperienced TL scheduling against another team that is far beyond your skill level. It happens a lot, and this platform would effectively eliminate that risk.
As for playing a higher div, or a team that you know for a fact will 5-0 you? You can do that using our platform, and manually choose to scrim higher teams. Plus, there's absolutely no requirement that you must without a doubt rely entirely on TFCL to host your scrims. You can always just do what you do right now and manually get things organized through Discord. So really, this is just there for those that want or maybe need a more streamlined experience. To [i]take the weight off[/i], so to speak.
We're mostly doing this platform for newer teams and players, with a heavy focus on ease of use and growth. Relying on multiple services and platforms to get a scrim going really isn't ideal. If anything, it just adds extra unnecessary steps to what could otherwise be a very simple process.
As for the advanced analytics stuff, our main goal here is to track as much stuff as possible. Stuff that goes beyond demos.tf or logs.tf. We're basically creating a dynamic ELO system based on your player performance at a class and even weapon level, and using this to assist in sandbag prevention and divisional placements. There are a few other neat things that we can do with this as well, but it's too early to make them public. Let's just say there's a lot of potential here, both for providing basic stat tracking, as well as offering up something that could be used to legitimately assist in a players growth.
Also the service is free. No paywall or anything of the sort, we want this data to be publicly accessible.
everything in this post seems insanely ambitious, really hope you guys can see it through
quick edit: if you don't get all this sorted by the end of the year, I'd probably focus on just setting up your site for running cups and give a realistic timeline of when u can get things like analytics implemented--also it might be worth consulting some top players about legitimate categories of "good player"
everything in this post seems insanely ambitious, really hope you guys can see it through
quick edit: if you don't get all this sorted by the end of the year, I'd probably focus on just setting up your site for running cups and give a realistic timeline of when u can get things like analytics implemented--also it might be worth consulting some top players about legitimate categories of "good player"
if all this can be pulled off it would be nothing short of the biggest league tf2 has ever seen
i'm of course worried about sustainability if its gonna run at such an enormous loss but im interested to see where this goes
if all this can be pulled off it would be nothing short of the biggest league tf2 has ever seen
i'm of course worried about sustainability if its gonna run at such an enormous loss but im interested to see where this goes
very intriguing but i feel the need to remain skeptical
any plans for international / intercontinental competitions? wondering if this will be NA only or if it'll be beyond that
SidularThere's a bit of a history there, and an offer was made back when sigafoo ran things. It didn't work out.
since then both ownership and management of RGL has fallen through multiple sets of hands. really hoping we can see some sort unison because i have a lot of respect for the current iteration of RGL
very intriguing but i feel the need to remain skeptical
any plans for international / intercontinental competitions? wondering if this will be NA only or if it'll be beyond that[quote=Sidular]
There's a bit of a history there, and an offer was made back when sigafoo ran things. It didn't work out.[/quote]
since then both ownership and management of RGL has fallen through multiple sets of hands. really hoping we can see some sort unison because i have a lot of respect for the current iteration of RGL
i am extremely skeptical ngl. im interested but i have so many questions i dont even know where to begin. maybe a live stream Q&A would be a good idea
i am extremely skeptical ngl. im interested but i have so many questions i dont even know where to begin. maybe a live stream Q&A would be a good idea
Walrexeverything in this post seems insanely ambitious, really hope you guys can see it through
quick edit: if you don't get all this sorted by the end of the year, I'd probably focus on just setting up your site for running cups and give a realistic timeline of when u can get things like analytics implemented--also it might be worth consulting some top players about legitimate categories of "good player"
We're working and consulting with a few invite level players, including b4nny.
We'll have the core of TFCL running by end of year, and build things more with proper user feedback and engagement. This will include cups and tournaments, of course. Unsure about massive prize pools for this year as the main goal is to just ensure that things are stable and secure first. Wouldn't want to invest thousands into something that might have a risk of breaking. So yeah, starting with the core, and build upon that. (and we're of course doing private and public tests as well, first starting in a month or so - just waiting for dev approval)
loafeany plans for international / intercontinental competitions? wondering if this will be NA only or if it'll be beyond that
We'll have our server network basically run globally from day one. This will allow for you to join pugs, and even participate in a few regional tournaments.
However, our immediate focus is on North America. We're just making sure the servers are there for when we do eventually expand internationally. (which may not be for years)
loafesince then both ownership and management of RGL has fallen through multiple sets of hands. really hoping we can see some sort unison because i have a lot of respect for the current iteration of RGL
I talked with Taylor for a bit, and then later on arcadia. I'm open to working with RGL in some capacity, but it's just not a main goal or focus as of today. I also very highly doubt that they would be open to a full acquisition. (though I do have plans if that talk should ever happen)
Trying to work together with sigafoo back in the day was not exactly a fun experience. Lots of stuff got said between us, and while I thought we were on solid grounds, he and I parted ways on rather bad and improper terms. This soured my view of him significantly.
SOOOOOAPYMEISTERi am extremely skeptical ngl. im interested but i have so many questions i dont even know where to begin. maybe a live stream Q&A would be a good idea
We actually have a few streams planned for exactly this.
[quote=Walrex]everything in this post seems insanely ambitious, really hope you guys can see it through
quick edit: if you don't get all this sorted by the end of the year, I'd probably focus on just setting up your site for running cups and give a realistic timeline of when u can get things like analytics implemented--also it might be worth consulting some top players about legitimate categories of "good player"[/quote]
We're working and consulting with a few invite level players, including b4nny.
We'll have the core of TFCL running by end of year, and build things more with proper user feedback and engagement. This will include cups and tournaments, of course. Unsure about massive prize pools for this year as the main goal is to just ensure that things are stable and secure first. Wouldn't want to invest thousands into something that might have a risk of breaking. So yeah, starting with the core, and build upon that. (and we're of course doing private and public tests as well, first starting in a month or so - just waiting for dev approval)
[quote=loafe]any plans for international / intercontinental competitions? wondering if this will be NA only or if it'll be beyond that[/quote]
We'll have our server network basically run globally from day one. This will allow for you to join pugs, and even participate in a few regional tournaments.
However, our immediate focus is on North America. We're just making sure the servers are there for when we do eventually expand internationally. (which may not be for years)
[quote=loafe]since then both ownership and management of RGL has fallen through multiple sets of hands. really hoping we can see some sort unison because i have a lot of respect for the current iteration of RGL[/quote]
I talked with Taylor for a bit, and then later on arcadia. I'm open to working with RGL in some capacity, but it's just not a main goal or focus as of today. I also very highly doubt that they would be open to a full acquisition. [i](though I do have plans if that talk should ever happen)[/i]
Trying to work together with sigafoo back in the day was not exactly a fun experience. Lots of stuff got said between us, and while I thought we were on solid grounds, he and I parted ways on rather bad and improper terms. This soured my view of him significantly.
[quote=SOOOOOAPYMEISTER]i am extremely skeptical ngl. im interested but i have so many questions i dont even know where to begin. maybe a live stream Q&A would be a good idea[/quote]
We actually have a few streams planned for exactly this.
https://i.imgur.com/ED37JIP.png
willing to contribute to the prizepool.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/ED37JIP.png[/img]
willing to contribute to the prizepool.
GrapeJuiceIIIhttps://i.imgur.com/ED37JIP.png
willing to contribute to the prizepool.
Appreciate that! Not necessary though.
If you'd like to instead subscribe to our Patreon, you're more than welcome to. This will more directly support our dev team out.
https://www.patreon.com/TFCL
[quote=GrapeJuiceIII][img]https://i.imgur.com/ED37JIP.png[/img]
willing to contribute to the prizepool.[/quote]
Appreciate that! Not necessary though.
If you'd like to instead subscribe to our Patreon, you're more than welcome to. This will more directly support our dev team out.
https://www.patreon.com/TFCL
can u have a "sort by height" feature in the analytics
can u have a "sort by height" feature in the analytics
SidularJwSo the winning invite team will get like $12000? every season? if so that's insane and we should all just play this instead of RGL
The exact breakdowns aren't fully finalized yet, but essentially yes. It would work out to something like that.
Jwalso if you have this much money, why not just buy RGL?
There's a bit of a history there, and an offer was made back when sigafoo ran things. It didn't work out.
Sidularloafeany plans for international / intercontinental competitions? wondering if this will be NA only or if it'll be beyond that
We'll have our server network basically run globally from day one. This will allow for you to join pugs, and even participate in a few regional tournaments.
However, our immediate focus is on North America. We're just making sure the servers are there for when we do eventually expand internationally. (which may not be for years)
loafesince then both ownership and management of RGL has fallen through multiple sets of hands. really hoping we can see some sort unison because i have a lot of respect for the current iteration of RGL
I talked with Taylor for a bit, and then later on arcadia. I'm open to working with RGL in some capacity, but it's just not a main goal or focus as of today. I also very highly doubt that they would be open to a full acquisition. (though I do have plans if that talk should ever happen)
Trying to work together with sigafoo back in the day was not exactly a fun experience. Lots of stuff got said between us, and while I thought we were on solid grounds, he and I parted ways on rather bad and improper terms. This soured my view of him significantly.
https://i.imgur.com/25vRxO2.png
Website says TFCLeague won't be a direct competitor, but the post compares TCFLeague directly to CEVO, and RGL to ESEA. Then says TFCLeague must offer something different than RGL...
SidularIn the end, CEVO couldn’t sustain itself, with ESEA simply proving to be too big of a behemoth to rival up against. So when CEVO folded, a very large chunk of the community went with it. It doesn’t take a genius to know that splitting the scene is a bad thing.
Despite TFCL launching first, RGL is seen as the current behemoth of TF2. We are the challengers. We are the CEVO. This is why it is crucial that we do something different, while still ensuring that a traditional league such as RGL can co-exist and even thrive alongside us.
Given the history with RGL, manlatino62 believes there is too strong a conflict of interest to say you won't be a direct competitor.
[quote=Sidular][quote=Jw]So the winning invite team will get like $12000? every season? if so that's insane and we should all just play this instead of RGL[/quote]
The exact breakdowns aren't fully finalized yet, but essentially yes. It would work out to something like that.
[quote=Jw]also if you have this much money, why not just buy RGL?[/quote]
There's a bit of a history there, and an offer was made back when sigafoo ran things. It didn't work out.[/quote]
[quote=Sidular][quote=loafe]any plans for international / intercontinental competitions? wondering if this will be NA only or if it'll be beyond that[/quote]
We'll have our server network basically run globally from day one. This will allow for you to join pugs, and even participate in a few regional tournaments.
However, our immediate focus is on North America. We're just making sure the servers are there for when we do eventually expand internationally. (which may not be for years)
[quote=loafe]since then both ownership and management of RGL has fallen through multiple sets of hands. really hoping we can see some sort unison because i have a lot of respect for the current iteration of RGL[/quote]
I talked with Taylor for a bit, and then later on arcadia. I'm open to working with RGL in some capacity, but it's just not a main goal or focus as of today. I also very highly doubt that they would be open to a full acquisition. [i](though I do have plans if that talk should ever happen)[/i]
Trying to work together with sigafoo back in the day was not exactly a fun experience. Lots of stuff got said between us, and while I thought we were on solid grounds, he and I parted ways on rather bad and improper terms. This soured my view of him significantly.[/quote]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/25vRxO2.png[/img]
[url=https://tfcleague.com/news/are-we-still-dark/]Website says[/url] TFCLeague won't be a direct competitor, but the post compares TCFLeague directly to CEVO, and RGL to ESEA. Then says TFCLeague must offer something different than RGL...
[quote=Sidular]In the end, CEVO couldn’t sustain itself, with ESEA simply proving to be too big of a behemoth to rival up against. So when CEVO folded, a very large chunk of the community went with it. It doesn’t take a genius to know that splitting the scene is a bad thing.
Despite TFCL launching first, RGL is seen as the current behemoth of TF2. We are the challengers. We are the CEVO. This is why it is crucial that we do something different, while still ensuring that a traditional league such as RGL can co-exist and even thrive alongside us.[/quote]
Given the history with RGL, manlatino62 believes there is too strong a conflict of interest to say you won't be a direct competitor.
manlatino62Given the history with RGL, manlatino62 believes there is too strong a conflict of interest to say you won't be a direct competitor.
We are a direct competitor to RGL by technicality, in that we're both operating a TF2 league. We both have divisions (or ranks), we both have a pay to play structure, we both have prize pools, and we both have the core seasonal structure that everybody is already quite familiar with. That's what defines RGL. Historically, that's what defined competitive TF2, as well.
We're different though. While we will still obviously have the seasonal stuff you're familiar with, that isn't actually our focus. It's not our bread and butter, so to speak. We're here to provide a unified, all-in-one competitive platform that does pretty much everything you'd ever need from a league and tournament environment. My focus with TFCL is in daily active users. We want to give you a reason to login every day. RGL doesn't really offer that, nor has any league throughout the history of TF2.
So yeah, we're competing against RGL, but not in the ways you may think. To say that we're a direct competitor? I mean, if all you want is a seasonal sixes league, then sure. I suppose we are a direct RGL competitor. But the hope is that you're not just going to use TFCL for our sixes league.
As for the "history" I've had with RGL personally, I don't agree with everything that they do. I don't agree with some of the decisions of their higher ups. This of course acted as a key motivator for bringing TFCL back from the dead. However, why just make a better RGL, when we have the ability to do so much more?
So yeah, we're competing against RGL, but not in the ways you may think.
[quote=manlatino62]Given the history with RGL, manlatino62 believes there is too strong a conflict of interest to say you won't be a direct competitor.[/quote]
We are a direct competitor to RGL by technicality, in that we're both operating a TF2 league. We both have divisions (or ranks), we both have a pay to play structure, we both have prize pools, and we both have the core seasonal structure that everybody is already quite familiar with. That's what defines RGL. Historically, that's what defined competitive TF2, as well.
We're different though. While we will still obviously have the seasonal stuff you're familiar with, that isn't actually our focus. It's not our [i]bread and butter,[/i] so to speak. We're here to provide a unified, all-in-one competitive platform that does pretty much everything you'd ever need from a league and tournament environment. My focus with TFCL is in daily active users. We want to give you a reason to login every day. RGL doesn't really offer that, nor has any league throughout the history of TF2.
So yeah, we're competing against RGL, but not in the ways you may think. To say that we're a direct competitor? I mean, if all you want is a seasonal sixes league, then sure. I suppose we [i]are[/i] a direct RGL competitor. But the hope is that you're not just going to use TFCL for our sixes league.
As for the "history" I've had with RGL personally, I don't agree with everything that they do. I don't agree with some of the decisions of their higher ups. This of course acted as a key motivator for bringing TFCL back from the dead. However, why just make a better RGL, when we have the ability to do [i]so much more?[/i]
So yeah, we're competing against RGL, but not in the ways you may think.
All of this exists already either in RGL or with third party tools. The problems people seem to have with RGL often stem from how central they are to the NA scene and disagreements with how RGL leadership make decisions that end up being unilaterally enforced across NA tf2 as a whole. I don't think making a different RGL that does the same stuff but aims to be even more centralized is a very well thought out idea.
Hope its cool and dumping what is clearly somebody's independent wealth into TF2 is pretty hype. That said the amount of "will be" I see in this post makes it sound like you have a design doc with a list of existing tools you plan to repurpose except with you in charge. If that isn't the case and you plan to rebuild all this stuff from the ground up (not just reskinning more.tf and the dozen docker image on vps solutions that are out there for automated match servers) I am very skeptical that a release date of this year will actually happen.
I'd usually say competition is good for stuff like leagues but I think realistically you either split an already very small scene for no good reason or we end up upfragging "TFCL bad" posts instead of "RGL bad" posts in 2 years when the new league that planned to be an even more centralized authority than RGL turns out to be... an even more centralized authority than RGL.
All of this exists already either in RGL or with third party tools. The problems people seem to have with RGL often stem from how central they are to the NA scene and disagreements with how RGL leadership make decisions that end up being unilaterally enforced across NA tf2 as a whole. I don't think making a different RGL that does the same stuff but aims to be even more centralized is a very well thought out idea.
Hope its cool and dumping what is clearly somebody's independent wealth into TF2 is pretty hype. That said the amount of "will be" I see in this post makes it sound like you have a design doc with a list of existing tools you plan to repurpose except with you in charge. If that isn't the case and you plan to rebuild all this stuff from the ground up (not just reskinning more.tf and the dozen docker image on vps solutions that are out there for automated match servers) I am very skeptical that a release date of this year will actually happen.
I'd usually say competition is good for stuff like leagues but I think realistically you either split an already very small scene for no good reason or we end up upfragging "TFCL bad" posts instead of "RGL bad" posts in 2 years when the new league that planned to be an even more centralized authority than RGL turns out to be... an even more centralized authority than RGL.
All of this exists already either in RGL or with third party tools.
While some of what we're doing already exists in RGL and with third party tools, most of it does not.
Hope its cool and dumping what is clearly somebody's independent wealth into TF2 is pretty hype
There's actually a company behind this, with a decent financial backing. It's not my personal money.
I can't get into the specifics just yet. but plan to have a financial transparency post out soon just as a form of public reassurance.
That said the amount of "will be" I see in this post makes it sound like you have a design doc with a list of existing tools you plan to repurpose except with you in charge. If that isn't the case and you plan to rebuild all this stuff from the ground up (not just reskinning more.tf and the dozen docker image on vps solutions that are out there for automated match servers) I am very skeptical that a release date of this year will actually happen.
While we're using open source tools when and where applicable to speed some aspects of development up, the majority of what we're doing is fully custom coded. This includes our server network (custom, not a fork of serveme), and logging / analytics service (again fully custom, not a part of more.tf, demos.tf, or logs.tf)
While our server network is using cloud containers, we had to develop our own provisioning tools from the ground up. Though admittedly, we had initially considered using a fork of serveme, what we're doing would require so much additional development time, that we opted to just go for a custom solution instead.
We're aiming for a minimally viable product by end of year. This means that the core of TFCL will be ready to go.
Also my usage of "will have" instead of "we do have" is more to do with the fact TFCL doesn't exist yet. We're still developing things up, and are now at the stage where we can publicly announce things. We are still on track for a MVP launch this year, with closed testing later this month, or sometime next.
I'd usually say competition is good for stuff like leagues but I think realistically you either split an already very small scene for no good reason or we end up upfragging "TFCL bad" posts instead of "RGL bad" posts in 2 years when the new league that planned to be an even more centralized authority than RGL turns out to be... an even more centralized authority than RGL.
This whole thing is a major concern of mine, specifically in regards to splitting the scene. I'm doing everything that I can to try and avoid having this happen, including going so far as to make TFCL as different to RGL as possible. You don't need to actually play in our sixes league to play in TFCL. The goal is to give the player as many options as possible, and to encourage daily activity by doing more than any other league. You don't even need to play within TFCL to use a TFCL server. Want a server for your ETF2L match? Just reserve one like you would with serveme. Admittedly, we're more or less a clone of serveme at that point, but still. If you want a server outside of North America, you can freely reserve one.
We're also far more focused on marketability, which I'll get into later as well in a separate article.
[quote]All of this exists already either in RGL or with third party tools. [/quote]
While some of what we're doing already exists in RGL and with third party tools, most of it does not.
[quote]Hope its cool and dumping what is clearly somebody's independent wealth into TF2 is pretty hype[/quote]
There's actually a company behind this, with a decent financial backing. It's not my personal money.
I can't get into the specifics just yet. but plan to have a financial transparency post out soon just as a form of public reassurance.
[quote]That said the amount of "will be" I see in this post makes it sound like you have a design doc with a list of existing tools you plan to repurpose except with you in charge. If that isn't the case and you plan to rebuild all this stuff from the ground up (not just reskinning more.tf and the dozen docker image on vps solutions that are out there for automated match servers) I am very skeptical that a release date of this year will actually happen.[/quote]
While we're using open source tools when and where applicable to speed some aspects of development up, the majority of what we're doing is fully custom coded. This includes our server network (custom, not a fork of serveme), and logging / analytics service (again fully custom, not a part of more.tf, demos.tf, or logs.tf)
While our server network is using cloud containers, we had to develop our own provisioning tools from the ground up. Though admittedly, we had initially considered using a fork of serveme, what we're doing would require so much additional development time, that we opted to just go for a custom solution instead.
We're aiming for a minimally viable product by end of year. This means that the core of TFCL will be ready to go.
Also my usage of "will have" instead of "we do have" is more to do with the fact TFCL doesn't exist yet. We're still developing things up, and are now at the stage where we can publicly announce things. We are still on track for a MVP launch this year, with closed testing later this month, or sometime next.
[quote]I'd usually say competition is good for stuff like leagues but I think realistically you either split an already very small scene for no good reason or we end up upfragging "TFCL bad" posts instead of "RGL bad" posts in 2 years when the new league that planned to be an even more centralized authority than RGL turns out to be... an even more centralized authority than RGL.[/quote]
This whole thing is a major concern of mine, specifically in regards to splitting the scene. I'm doing everything that I can to try and avoid having this happen, including going so far as to make TFCL as different to RGL as possible. You don't need to actually play in our sixes league to play in TFCL. The goal is to give the player as many options as possible, and to encourage daily activity by doing more than any other league. You don't even need to play within TFCL to use a TFCL server. Want a server for your ETF2L match? Just reserve one like you would with serveme. Admittedly, we're more or less a clone of serveme at that point, but still. If you want a server outside of North America, you can freely reserve one.
We're also far more focused on marketability, which I'll get into later as well in a separate article.
SidularAll of this exists already either in RGL or with third party tools.
While some of what we're doing already exists in RGL and with third party tools, most of it does not.
Pick up Games
RGL has this.
Automated Scrim Scheduling
This doesn't exist but for good reason. I could be off base as I haven't played in a while, but I have lead and scheduled for dozens of teams and would have no interest in this. Maybe its good, but I think this is one of those things that doesn't need to exist.
Global Server Network
na.serveme.tf. RGL also can provide match servers now.
Cups, Tournaments, Seasons
RGL does this.
Prize Pools
The financial transparency statement will inform my opinion on this for sure. If you're operating at a loss and that money is from a separate corporate entity I am confused about that company's financial incentive. Is there a mysterious company that is willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars with the hope that TF2 as an esport could become profitable? League of Legends as an esport isn't profitable. Companies do not exist to lose money.
Match Making Service
faceit
Host Your Own Stuff
challonge, start.gg, etc
Advanced Analytics
more.tf, trends.tf
[quote=Sidular][quote]All of this exists already either in RGL or with third party tools. [/quote]
While some of what we're doing already exists in RGL and with third party tools, most of it does not.
[/quote]
[b]Pick up Games[/b]
RGL has this.
[b]Automated Scrim Scheduling[/b]
This doesn't exist but for good reason. I could be off base as I haven't played in a while, but I have lead and scheduled for dozens of teams and would have no interest in this. Maybe its good, but I think this is one of those things that doesn't need to exist.
[b]Global Server Network[/b]
na.serveme.tf. RGL also can provide match servers now.
[b]Cups, Tournaments, Seasons[/b]
RGL does this.
[b]Prize Pools[/b]
The financial transparency statement will inform my opinion on this for sure. If you're operating at a loss and that money is from a separate corporate entity I am confused about that company's financial incentive. Is there a mysterious company that is willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars with the hope that TF2 as an esport could become profitable? League of Legends as an esport isn't profitable. Companies do not exist to lose money.
[b]Match Making Service[/b]
faceit
[b]Host Your Own Stuff[/b]
challonge, start.gg, etc
[b]Advanced Analytics[/b]
more.tf, trends.tf
it looks like sidular has a history of very ambitious projects..
https://files.catbox.moe/1kowu4.png
some less realistic than others.
https://files.catbox.moe/9jgxwn.png
manlatino62 thinks you're spread too thin to work on yet another very ambitious project, especially when your others seem to have a reputation marred by how thin you've spread yourself.
https://files.catbox.moe/0045lr.png
how can manlatino62 trust that the same ethic wouldn't be applied to TFCLeague? maybe all that money would better fit a more focused idea, such as LANs, Cups, Ladders, or other events that serve the community.
it looks like sidular has a history of very ambitious projects..
[img]https://files.catbox.moe/1kowu4.png[/img]
some less realistic than others.
[img]https://files.catbox.moe/9jgxwn.png[/img]
manlatino62 thinks you're spread too thin to work on yet another very ambitious project, especially when your others seem to have a reputation marred by how thin you've spread yourself.
[img]https://files.catbox.moe/0045lr.png[/img]
how can manlatino62 trust that the same ethic wouldn't be applied to TFCLeague? maybe all that money would better fit a more focused idea, such as LANs, Cups, Ladders, or other events that serve the community.
Sidular is a company
The page that manlatino62 took the first image from, is this one - https://sidular.com/projects/
It highlights the four current projects that Sidular (the company) operates. There are a few not mentioned on that page as well, but those are the primary four.
DoRoyal
DoRoyal is a website hosting service that I originally started back in 2012. It currently has customers in 90 countries, and is hosting thousands of websites. It is also partnered with Automattic, the makers of WordPress.
DoRoyal is one of the primary sources of revenue for my business.
As for the negative review that manlatino62 highlighted, I'm afraid to say that the issues Graham had are indeed real. (aside from me working out of a frozen garage part - it's actually a shed)
During the time of that review, as well as a few others (representing 19% of total reviews), we had two primary issues.
1. A massive ddos attack.
2. Domain registration and renewal issues.
Both of the above issues were resolved, and we've been pretty smooth ever since. 75% of all reviews are 5 stars.
PSX Extreme
This is the oldest PlayStation news website in the world, dating back to February of 1999. Being a media website, its main determination of success is in the form of traffic. During the last 30 days, PSX Extreme had 1.16 million unique visitors. It is a very successful website, and is also one of the primary funding and marketing sources for TFCL.
eFiction
I sort of acquired this by accident, and have not done much with it. The eFiction community has opted to fork the software on their own. I should honestly remove this from the Projects page, as it's not something I'm actively working on.
Ularthia
This was an ambitious project that failed to meet initial funding back in 2020. It is still something I wish to do eventually, but there are no plans at this time to start a new development studio.
I will be doing a proper Q&A within the next few days, week at most. It will be hosted via the TFCL Twitch channel - https://www.twitch.tv/tfcleague
[b]Sidular is a company[/b]
The page that manlatino62 took the first image from, is this one - https://sidular.com/projects/
It highlights the four current projects that Sidular (the company) operates. There are a few not mentioned on that page as well, but those are the primary four.
[b]DoRoyal[/b]
DoRoyal is a website hosting service that I originally started back in 2012. It currently has customers in 90 countries, and is hosting thousands of websites. It is also partnered with Automattic, the makers of WordPress.
DoRoyal is one of the primary sources of revenue for my business.
As for the negative review that manlatino62 highlighted, I'm afraid to say that the issues Graham had are indeed real. [i](aside from me working out of a frozen garage part - it's actually a shed)[/i]
During the time of that review, as well as a few others (representing 19% of total reviews), we had two primary issues.
1. A massive ddos attack.
2. Domain registration and renewal issues.
Both of the above issues were resolved, and we've been pretty smooth ever since. 75% of all reviews are 5 stars.
[b]PSX Extreme[/b]
This is the oldest PlayStation news website in the world, dating back to February of 1999. Being a media website, its main determination of success is in the form of traffic. During the last 30 days, PSX Extreme had 1.16 million unique visitors. It is a very successful website, and is also one of the primary funding and marketing sources for TFCL.
[b]eFiction[/b]
I sort of acquired this by accident, and have not done much with it. The eFiction community has opted to fork the software on their own. I should honestly remove this from the Projects page, as it's not something I'm actively working on.
[b]Ularthia[/b]
This was an ambitious project that failed to meet initial funding back in 2020. It is still something I wish to do eventually, but there are no plans at this time to start a new development studio.
[b]I will be doing a proper Q&A within the next few days, week at most. It will be hosted via the TFCL Twitch channel - https://www.twitch.tv/tfcleague [/b]
I think people are starting to notice how insanely ambitious this project is...You are essentially promising to do everything our community does but better? All because you have more money to throw?
TBH you could honestly over throw RGL by just replicating what they already have, paying moderators, and having a bigger prize pool.
There isnt a need to be this innovative with a decaying competitive scene
The only thing that can be done now is for you to show us the product and put your money where your mouth is.
I think people are starting to notice how insanely ambitious this project is...You are essentially promising to do everything our community does but better? All because you have more money to throw?
TBH you could honestly over throw RGL by just replicating what they already have, paying moderators, and having a bigger prize pool.
There isnt a need to be this innovative with a decaying competitive scene
The only thing that can be done now is for you to show us the product and put your money where your mouth is.
With all these global servers, is there potential for intercontinental matchups or region-vs-region cups?
If so, how will these be handled?
Also with automation comes risk - what’s the plan for handling toxicity or trolling?
How will the elo system handle alt accounts or class-restricted mercs/ringers in lower divs?
With all these global servers, is there potential for intercontinental matchups or region-vs-region cups?
If so, how will these be handled?
Also with automation comes risk - what’s the plan for handling toxicity or trolling?
How will the elo system handle alt accounts or class-restricted mercs/ringers in lower divs?