GOOSE_THE_DUCK
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#54 The Future of RGL HL in TF2 General Discussion
pajaroGOOSE_THE_DUCKI see your points, but my question is what is the point of divisions at all? If everyone should just have the mentality of "Focus on growth instead of winning" mindset then why bother with division structures at all? Wouldn't a structure like Open, Intermediate and Invite be better?because there wouldn't be as many close matches if each division was that large. i think you aren't wrapping your head around the idea that there will always be, no matter how the divisions are structured, a team on the bottom of the standings.

Nah, I 100% get the idea. Its just a circular problem. You can always push the top of any div up and basically say "Git Gud" when they complain. This goes both ways. Teams reserve the right to not agree with the move up divisions of admins and just not play if they feel " there wouldn't be as many close matches if each division was that large"

posted 1 month ago
#37 The Future of RGL HL in TF2 General Discussion
pajaroGOOSE_THE_DUCK
Someone has to lose the match, and there's always gonna be a team at the bottom of the leaderboard.
In other words, we are pushing teams up to be the punching bag for upper division teams. How does this bring competitive value to the league?

Sure you have that season, but its barely taking up any of your time, and you can choose who you scrim.
Are you saying if you got moved up to Advance from Main, you can just scrim main teams and just take the loss on match day? I'm sorry, but if your team can only compete in the division below then maybe you should be in that div? Call me crazy.

And if you care that much about winning, if you work hard, any moveup can get better and take a couple hard-earned wins in a higher div, or get asked to play on a better team if you out-improve your team.
I think improving to the point of being able to have someone else cut their main rostered player for you is insane. Teams are not always worried about having who is "best" cause that is always subjective. I imagine that these players that out-improve their team will just end up as subs on better teams.
To your first point, you are misunderstanding. Mathematically there is always a team that is on the bottom of the leaderboard. It is impossible for a division to only have a high end and mid end. There is always a loser, that's how competition works. Not everyone gets to be the best in their division. Like yogrrt has said, it's important that each div has a viable playoff structure, and that necessitates a certain number of teams per div, even if that includes moveups. And teams on the bottom of the leaderboard still improve way faster than the team in the division below that wins the division. That's valuable, and any player in the higher divs will tell you so.

And your second, I would prefer that moveup teams scrim teams in their division, but I understand that not every team is mentally strong enough to lose a lot of their scrims, and it isn't that valuable if they lose 90% of their scrims, because then they don't get as much practice for close games with time pressure. But not for one second would I believe that a team genuinely trying to improve would always lose on match day against a team just 1 div higher than what they believed their skill level was weeks ago when they got their placement. Especially when, frankly, advanced and main is not as large of a gap as advanced and invite, and advanced moveups usually get a win or at least a few really close games in invite. There are plenty of invite players willing to do team map reviews and occasionally watch demos, and their insight (if actually actively listened to) is super valuable.

For your last point, you are again misunderstanding, I am not saying that a player should expect to improve to the point that another team cuts their player for them. Rather, after the season is over, you get more exposure to other players in that division, and if new teams form, you'll get the call up. That's how it's worked for more than a decade, and I can give you plenty of examples of solid Invite players having that exact trajectory. And also, as timeless said, there are also times that players get poached because they get really good. Happens sometimes.
luckitfIn other words, we are pushing teams up to be the punching bag for upper division teams. How does this bring competitive value to the league?
Yes and no. You are bringing up teams that will absolutely get "shit on" by the top teams, for example in invite almost every team that is not seeds 1 and 2 will be getting rolled by seeds 1 and 2. And in the case that you bring up MULTIPLE teams, that now becomes the bottom of the division where they will compete against each other. Do you think that losing to the same 10 or so players who have won advanced every season in advanced would be competitive for the rest of the people in that division?

Are you saying if you got moved up to Advance from Main, you can just scrim main teams and just take the loss on match day? I'm sorry, but if your team can only compete in the division below then maybe you should be in that div? Call me crazy.
Yeah you could absolutely just scrim main teams if you get moved up to advanced, hell even an invite team could scrim exclusively newcomer teams. You should talk to the rest of your division about whether or not those scrims provide any value to you, and if not, cancel them. Not a soul is forcing you to scrim them. This point doesn't really make sense at all. And because I was talking about the invite moveups please look at the league table right now as of week 4:
https://imgur.com/a/PQ7DUAF
DZCreatures is definitely a mid invite team, and the [REDACTED] is at the very least competitive with BigBrainComp? which is going on playing their 3rd season of invite.

I think improving to the point of being able to have someone else cut their main rostered player for you is insane. Teams are not always worried about having who is "best" cause that is always subjective. I imagine that these players that out-improve their team will just end up as subs on better teams.
As someone who has been on the receiving end of both sides of that statement, yes, they absolutely are worried about who has the best players. Yeah some people might get the call-up to a team just to be a sub, but they use that opportunity to get their foot in the door, and potentially get playtime or even a main spot on a different team using that experience that they acquired. This is a competitive league, and you can ask almost every team leader whether or not they try to get the best players available to them, and I would bet that they would say yes.

I see your points, but my question is what is the point of divisions at all? If everyone should just have the mentality of "Focus on growth instead of winning" mindset then why bother with division structures at all? Wouldn't a structure like Open, Intermediate and Invite be better?

posted 1 month ago
#31 The Future of RGL HL in TF2 General Discussion
TimelessIn other words, we are pushing teams up to be the punching bag for upper division teams. How does this bring competitive value to the league?

I think players forget how much quicker you improve if you play against better competition. As someone who has been around for a while, advanced teams would get better MUCH quicker if they scrimmed invite teams and objectively looked at demos. However, there's this "winning only matters, can't wait to type .log and feel good about myself" and not a "Why did our push work? Why did it fail? What are the top invite teams doing as a default setup". There's also endless resources of streams/youtube/people to just ask questions.

The big issue though is that you fail to recognize that there are advanced teams that want to "seal club or smurf" in advanced. When winning is the only metric used for TF2, it promotes stagnation. People win advanced and refuse to move up or play invite, it's toxic to the main players.

I think improving to the point of being able to have someone else cut their main rostered player for you is insane.

But it happens.

There is a line here though. I agree playing against better players makes you better faster but when you get obliterated by a large skill gap there is too much to digest/learn. One side stomps are never good for competitive value in ANY div not just Invite. Moving up the WRONG teams kills motivation and puts stress on TL's to make hard cuts to their teams to be competitive at a level they didn't expect to be at.

I think improving to the point of being able to have someone else cut their main rostered player for you is insane.

But it happens.

Like yes? This is a survivorship bias answer though. MOST people will not be able to convince a TL of a winning team to cut their main rostered players unless there is some amount of drama with that main rostered player.

posted 1 month ago
#29 The Future of RGL HL in TF2 General Discussion
pajaroI have a lot of problems with how the RGL staff functions in general, and also on a division basis. That being said, I just cannot understand the rationale behind being upset about being last-minute moved up based on your team's experience or the higher div needing another team. Highlander teams usually scrim 5 times a week, the only thing changing for you is that 1 hour of that 5 hours of practice is probably going to be a loss. Someone has to lose the match, and there's always gonna be a team at the bottom of the leaderboard. Sure you have that season, but its barely taking up any of your time, and you can choose who you scrim. And if you care that much about winning, if you work hard, any moveup can get better and take a couple hard-earned wins in a higher div, or get asked to play on a better team if you out-improve your team. Only the ones that truly give up will go 0-7 every time. Like, it is a competitive league and if you just wanted to stay in a division lower than where the admins decided you belong, then you should expect to not be allowed to do so.

Someone has to lose the match, and there's always gonna be a team at the bottom of the leaderboard.
In other words, we are pushing teams up to be the punching bag for upper division teams. How does this bring competitive value to the league?

Sure you have that season, but its barely taking up any of your time, and you can choose who you scrim.
Are you saying if you got moved up to Advance from Main, you can just scrim main teams and just take the loss on match day? I'm sorry, but if your team can only compete in the division below then maybe you should be in that div? Call me crazy.

And if you care that much about winning, if you work hard, any moveup can get better and take a couple hard-earned wins in a higher div, or get asked to play on a better team if you out-improve your team.
I think improving to the point of being able to have someone else cut their main rostered player for you is insane. Teams are not always worried about having who is "best" cause that is always subjective. I imagine that these players that out-improve their team will just end up as subs on better teams.

posted 1 month ago
#4 QEL POST SZN CUP #2: Medals, 800$, 3-DIV in TF2 General Discussion
With this cup, we aim to give teams a structured postseason environment to compete, reflect, and adjust their rosters ahead of the upcoming RGL 6s season.
  • Teams will be restricted to one offclass at all times
  • Weapon restrictions being added to the RGL 6s whitelist

So not a postseason environment to compete, reflect, and adjust my roster for next szn. Got it.

posted 7 months ago
#29 TFCL 2.0 - Match Servers, Scrim Automation, & More in Projects

I think people are starting to notice how insanely ambitious this project is...You are essentially promising to do everything our community does but better? All because you have more money to throw?

TBH you could honestly over throw RGL by just replicating what they already have, paying moderators, and having a bigger prize pool.
There isnt a need to be this innovative with a decaying competitive scene

The only thing that can be done now is for you to show us the product and put your money where your mouth is.

posted 8 months ago
#7 TFCL 2.0 - Match Servers, Scrim Automation, & More in Projects
Pick up Games

This would be similar to the current RGL pug system?

Automated Scrim Scheduling

Has anyone actually asked for this? As you stated this might be useful for newer players, but it takes a couple seconds for a Newcomer TL to estimate the skill level of other teams. There are times where I want to play a lower division team when trying a new roster or playing off classes. There are times where I want to play a higher division team that might end up rolling me. Would the league still provide discord information of TL's to contact them and setup scrims?

Advanced Analytics
Why even bother with advanced tracking to begin with?

No seriously what is even the purpose of this? More.tf does this already. Would this be a better and more premium version of more.tf? Something closer to leetify? Will there be a charge for premium features like leetify?

posted 8 months ago
#56 ctap scripts banned in rgl in TF2 General Discussion
TholeGOOSE_THE_DUCKRebelI'm fine with this if they also ban other movement input automation scripts such as null movement and crouch jump.

People should have to press all the keys for movement.

I realize this game isn't cs, but my views align with this post from Valve
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/730/view/6500469346429600836

That Valve post was in reference to null movement. I think c-taps are closer related to jump throw binds than null movement as null movement is something you cant do in game without commands, but c-taps are.

The problem is that Valve made jump throws easier when porting to CS 2. Making the jump throw insanely easier for players of ALL skill levels. C-taps which is a helpful tool to introduce newer players to comp have not been made easier and the barrier to entry is even higher to enter comp and play soldier.
i think setting up external scripts and class files and such actually raises the barrier more than learning a timing based in game mechanic.

TF2 is littered with tons of scripts and other external config setups that make it difficult to get into the game competitively.
Banning this script doesnt change that. It just makes it harder for newer players to get max c-taps, raising the skill barrier.

posted 10 months ago
#38 ctap scripts banned in rgl in TF2 General Discussion
RebelI'm fine with this if they also ban other movement input automation scripts such as null movement and crouch jump.

People should have to press all the keys for movement.

I realize this game isn't cs, but my views align with this post from Valve
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/730/view/6500469346429600836

That Valve post was in reference to null movement. I think c-taps are closer related to jump throw binds than null movement as null movement is something you cant do in game without commands, but c-taps are.

The problem is that Valve made jump throws easier when porting to CS 2. Making the jump throw insanely easier for players of ALL skill levels. C-taps which is a helpful tool to introduce newer players to comp have not been made easier and the barrier to entry is even higher to enter comp and play soldier.

posted 10 months ago
#12 ctap scripts banned in rgl in TF2 General Discussion
DavyCI don't really give a shit if it's banned or not but I just want to point out something funny. The people getting the most butthurt about this are all in the same passtime pug circlejerk.

#2 https://logs.tf/profile/76561198388507545
#3 https://logs.tf/profile/76561198212598967
#4 https://logs.tf/profile/76561197973093864

and from the rgl discord
https://i.gyazo.com/f910a0da03ddf7dc05aa0323be468d7e.pnghttps://logs.tf/profile/76561198144209930

https://i.gyazo.com/3668a382e46e7686d0531e8402307308.pnghttps://logs.tf/profile/76561198081738675

https://i.gyazo.com/d9ff0e0f7318d1585245b222ce2be195.pnghttps://logs.tf/profile/76561198056453091

maybe you guys should learn how to ctap

"I don't really give a shit if it's banned..."
"maybe you guys should learn how to ctap"

Curious...

Also, You still can do it with a script... just cant be one tick, so you still dont have to learn.

Also, You can do a 1-tick c-tap WITHOUT a script

posted 10 months ago
#67 TF2 Promod in TF2 General Discussion

A couple of features that come to mind:

  • Color-blind accessibility: Change the main color of either team
  • No Cosmetic Settings: No mod installation. Granularly choose what type of cosmetic items to disable in-game
  • Expanded Advanced Video settings: more console commands should be settings found in UI. I shouldn't have to download comfig to make my game run smoothly.
  • Add popular config scripts as bindable actions in settings: C-tap, jump crouch, loadout bind, engineer buildings
posted about a year ago
#6 when will rgl release the backlog of medals in TF2 General Discussion
springrollsjustjazztheyve not released any since ~S11. how else am i supposed to flex on pubbers?
The official* response from rgl discord from what I've observed is that there's something funny going on Valve's end, which I don't rlly get cause lots of other medals have been distributed since but who knows.

*defining official here to mean whenever somebody tagged as rgl admin responds, I have no idea if they're actually the person in charge of medals

I know other leagues and small events are giving out their medals. I am not entirely sure if it's just Valve at fault here.

posted about a year ago