Birdyrockswill i get minus fragged to shit for pointing out that crowns beat full tilt online without kaidus coaching and were in a equally as close game at dreamhack without kaidus, so claiming he somehow made this huge difference is pretty unfounded
That's not really the question here to be honest whether kaidus had a big impact or not on Crowns' playstyle. It's just that in some people's eyes (including me), having a "7th player" as they call it is unfair. To me, maincalling is a mechanic that one player (or more) must master in this game, I don't find it fair to have a coach here to do the work an actual in-game player should do. So if coaching is to be allowed still in the future, I hope it will be only during pre-game and between maps.
[quote=Birdyrocks]will i get minus fragged to shit for pointing out that crowns beat full tilt online without kaidus coaching and were in a equally as close game at dreamhack without kaidus, so claiming he somehow made this huge difference is pretty unfounded[/quote]
That's not really the question here to be honest whether kaidus had a big impact or not on Crowns' playstyle. It's just that in some people's eyes (including me), having a "7th player" as they call it is unfair. To me, maincalling is a mechanic that one player (or more) must master in this game, I don't find it fair to have a coach here to do the work an actual in-game player should do. So if coaching is to be allowed still in the future, I hope it will be only during pre-game and between maps.
cirlohere is nothing you can do but accept the fact that now coaches are a reality in tf2 too
oh, I'm not against coaching on its own, that's going to be a thing in just about any and all forms of popular competition. the thing is, this isn't just coaching, this is trying as hard as humanly possible to have a seventh team member without having a seventh team member, because maincalling is a core player skill in TF2, crowns offloaded that skill to someone else
coaching is 100% okay before a game starts, and during an ESEA halftime, but nowhere else. I'm not particularly salty in any way, but it doesn't change that people doubt their victory because of this legitimate issue, and regardless of whether or not crowns deserved it, that's not something you want out of a big event
[quote=cirlo]here is nothing you can do but accept the fact that now coaches are a reality in tf2 too[/quote]
oh, I'm not against coaching on its own, that's going to be a thing in just about any and all forms of popular competition. the thing is, this isn't just coaching, this is trying as hard as humanly possible to have a seventh team member without having a seventh team member, because maincalling is a core player skill in TF2, crowns offloaded that skill to someone else
coaching is 100% okay before a game starts, and during an ESEA halftime, but nowhere else. I'm not particularly salty in any way, but it doesn't change that people doubt their victory because of this legitimate issue, and regardless of whether or not crowns deserved it, that's not something you want out of a big event
nymthaesaamDid Kaidus also use a plugin that allowed him to be at a computer and see everyone on his team's POV's? I could maybe have been OK with him standing behind but using a plugin like that feels like it goes far beyond what should be happening.
You can see every single player POV at once by standing behind, the plugin blocked the ability to spectate the other team. How is it any better? Technically, it means you can actually only view one at a time so it's hardly bringing anything more than what you'd achieve in person.
The idea behind forcing participation on the server meant any teams who happened to be placed on rows in front of teams using coaches (physically) reduced the risk of being able to see enemy POVs as well.
Personally? I don't really agree with coaches, maincalling was definitely an element that provided a skill difference in many teams. At the end of the day though if it did improve Crowns [over having kaidus, the caller, as a player] then what we saw was a higher level of play, or better quality. It's not a terrible thing to explore options that strive to better the quality of play, surely?
A case was made for it, it was tried. I agreed to do it and i'm standing by it. Honestly, that's the best iseries LAN final we've ever had so i'm not regretting that if it contributed at all. If from here the idea is ditched in future events and tournaments then so be it. Nothing ever changes unless you give it a chance to. All the other teams had an opportunity to use a coach [Jasmine Tea and froyotech understandably have a much greater financial struggle to achieve that, that's something that sucks only because of where our community is at with funding and LANs, i'm not rich I can't change that as much as i'd love to]
I knew Crowns winning would only bring out more salt but whatever. If you're salty, blame me, I don't care. If it's all bullshit then it won't catch on and we'll drop the idea.
I'm done with organising TF2 at iseries here so whoever is taking over for the future can make this decision next year if it's at the event.
What do you mean by "higher level of play"? By that token why don't teams just use PEDs for "higher quality performance". Isn't the point of a lan to provide a more impartial environment where the only factor that determines individual and team merit is skill (gamesense, deathmatch)? Sourcing that entire category of the game to a 7th player seems rather counter-productive to the concept
[quote=nymthae][quote=saam]
Did Kaidus also use a plugin that allowed him to be at a computer and see everyone on his team's POV's? I could maybe have been OK with him standing behind but using a plugin like that feels like it goes far beyond what should be happening.[/quote]
You can see every single player POV at once by standing behind, the plugin blocked the ability to spectate the other team. How is it any better? Technically, it means you can actually only view one at a time so it's hardly bringing anything more than what you'd achieve in person.
The idea behind forcing participation on the server meant any teams who happened to be placed on rows in front of teams using coaches (physically) reduced the risk of being able to see enemy POVs as well.
Personally? I don't really agree with coaches, maincalling was definitely an element that provided a skill difference in many teams. At the end of the day though [i]if[/i] it did improve Crowns [over having kaidus, the caller, as a player] then what we saw was a higher level of play, or better quality. It's not a terrible thing to explore options that strive to better the quality of play, surely?
A case was made for it, it was tried. I agreed to do it and i'm standing by it. Honestly, that's the best iseries LAN final we've ever had so i'm not regretting that if it contributed at all. If from here the idea is ditched in future events and tournaments then so be it. Nothing ever changes unless you give it a chance to. All the other teams had an opportunity to use a coach [Jasmine Tea and froyotech understandably have a much greater financial struggle to achieve that, that's something that sucks only because of where our community is at with funding and LANs, i'm not rich I can't change that as much as i'd love to]
I knew Crowns winning would only bring out more salt but whatever. If you're salty, blame me, I don't care. If it's all bullshit then it won't catch on and we'll drop the idea.
I'm done with organising TF2 at iseries here so whoever is taking over for the future can make this decision next year if it's at the event.[/quote]
What do you mean by "higher level of play"? By that token why don't teams just use PEDs for "higher quality performance". Isn't the point of a lan to provide a more impartial environment where the only factor that determines individual and team merit is skill (gamesense, deathmatch)? Sourcing that entire category of the game to a 7th player seems rather counter-productive to the concept
cirloThere is nothing you can do but accept the fact that now coaches are a reality in tf2 too
yes there is, ban it if people want it gone
personally I don't think I'd like to see this happen again
[quote=cirlo]
There is nothing you can do but accept the fact that now coaches are a reality in tf2 too[/quote]
yes there is, ban it if people want it gone
personally I don't think I'd like to see this happen again
EvrewsWhat do you mean by "higher level of play"? By that token why don't teams just use PEDs for "higher quality performance". Isn't the point of a lan to provide a more impartial environment where the only factor that determines individual and team merit is skill (gamesense, deathmatch)? Sourcing that entire category of the game to a 7th player seems rather counter-productive to the concept
I think you very grossly overestimate how even a LAN like iSeries is. It's fun to have international LANs, but a LAN with this environment is far from an even, balanced experience for anyone involved. There are a lot of indirect advantages teams have at a LAN like this. Every one of these I've gone to, myself or my team had issues with the computers and the monitors. At i55, we rented 144hz monitors that had blatant input lag. I remember specifically talking to enigma during group stages about the monitors being nearly unusable. I've also had clear FPS issues on other desktop computers we rented. Crowd, temperature, the overwhelming feeling of playing in a sea of humans at the highest level of competition in the game are all factors that you could argue impact the outcome of a game. Case in point, seagull at i52, upset that someone bumped into his chair. Yes, there's common courtesy and no one intends to brush up against you, or bump your chair, or be influencing the outcome of a game, but it will always happen in small amounts.
I also thought it was sort of strange that you mention PEDs, as if the LAN is drug testing every player that sits down. Have I talked to anyone about using adderall or its equivalent at one of these LANs? No, but I doubt the entire community is clean when they sit down to play this tournament. There's also a much-needed discussion about what the community considers PEDs. Is alcohol a PED? I think it absolutely can be. I've certainly played better under the influence of a beer or two. You can go up to the bar and purchase a drink at any time in-between games.
I'm not intending to deflect your discussion away from coaching, but instead trying to draw attention to the myriad issues with LANs like this. If we're going to nitpick, urge the staff at i61 to do their best to supply every player with the exact same functioning hardware and create an actual sanctioned area for top teams. The setup for all the iSeries events is very laissez-faire.
[quote=Evrews]
What do you mean by "higher level of play"? By that token why don't teams just use PEDs for "higher quality performance". Isn't the point of a lan to provide a more impartial environment where the only factor that determines individual and team merit is skill (gamesense, deathmatch)? Sourcing that entire category of the game to a 7th player seems rather counter-productive to the concept[/quote]
I think you very grossly overestimate how even a LAN like iSeries is. It's fun to have international LANs, but a LAN with this environment is far from an even, balanced experience for anyone involved. There are a lot of indirect advantages teams have at a LAN like this. Every one of these I've gone to, myself or my team had issues with the computers and the monitors. At i55, we rented 144hz monitors that had blatant input lag. I remember specifically talking to enigma during group stages about the monitors being nearly unusable. I've also had clear FPS issues on other desktop computers we rented. Crowd, temperature, the overwhelming feeling of playing in a [i]sea of humans[/i] at the highest level of competition in the game are all factors that you could argue impact the outcome of a game. Case in point, seagull at i52, upset that someone bumped into his chair. Yes, there's common courtesy and no one intends to brush up against you, or bump your chair, or be influencing the outcome of a game, but it will always happen in small amounts.
I also thought it was sort of strange that you mention PEDs, as if the LAN is drug testing every player that sits down. Have I talked to anyone about using adderall or its equivalent at one of these LANs? No, but I doubt the entire community is clean when they sit down to play this tournament. There's also a much-needed discussion about what the community considers PEDs. Is alcohol a PED? I think it absolutely can be. I've certainly played better under the influence of a beer or two. You can go up to the bar and purchase a drink at any time in-between games.
I'm not intending to deflect your discussion away from coaching, but instead trying to draw attention to the myriad issues with LANs like this. If we're going to nitpick, urge the staff at i61 to do their best to supply every player with the exact same functioning hardware and create an actual sanctioned area for top teams. The setup for all the iSeries events is very laissez-faire.
clckwrkIf we're going to nitpick, urge the staff at i61 to do their best to supply every player with the exact same functioning hardware and create an actual sanctioned area for top teams. The setup for all the iSeries events is very laissez-faire.
to be fair, its not really supposed to be a serious "international lan tournament" as far as i know, its just that TF2 uses it for that purpose. its essentially a "european community lan" for meeting up, hanging out and drinking with some video games.
[quote=clckwrk]If we're going to nitpick, urge the staff at i61 to do their best to supply every player with the exact same functioning hardware and create an actual sanctioned area for top teams. The setup for all the iSeries events is very laissez-faire.[/quote]
to be fair, its not really supposed to be a serious "international lan tournament" as far as i know, its just that TF2 uses it for that purpose. its essentially a "european community lan" for meeting up, hanging out and drinking with some video games.
iliumTomuStark made a game changer in the GC and probably not kaidus and that's where it came down to really.So GGWP.
Honestly a lot of their games were so close this entire lan that if just one advantaged was removed they probably wouldn't have done nearly as well. Kaidus coaching was a huge advantage.
Without kaidus to maincall they were honestly pretty weak earlier this etf2l season. They had to switch Kaptain to scout and Starkie to pocket to have a solid maincaller in the combo. If they had to play like that, rely on some combination of spudd, raymon, and kaptain calling, or stark calling from the flank, I doubt they could've beaten full tilt. They may have even struggled against froyo.
[quote=ilium][quote=Tomu]Stark made a game changer in the GC and probably not kaidus and that's where it came down to really.So GGWP.[/quote]
Honestly a lot of their games were so close this entire lan that if just one advantaged was removed they probably wouldn't have done nearly as well. Kaidus coaching was a huge advantage.[/quote]
Without kaidus to maincall they were honestly pretty weak earlier this etf2l season. They had to switch Kaptain to scout and Starkie to pocket to have a solid maincaller in the combo. If they had to play like that, rely on some combination of spudd, raymon, and kaptain calling, or stark calling from the flank, I doubt they could've beaten full tilt. They may have even struggled against froyo.
MouldcirloThere is nothing you can do but accept the fact that now coaches are a reality in tf2 too
yes there is, ban it if people want it gone
personally I don't think I'd like to see this happen again
I'm not sure we should ban it right away. But, it definitely needs to be looked at. In its current form it really does give a clear advantage.
I like the idea of dedicated coaches being allowed to watch games. But main-calling feels like it's way too far. Letting them talk to their team between rounds and during pauses is pretty close to what coaches do in real sports, but pauses are infrequent and between round timers are way too short for any meaningful discussions or advice. Increasing the time or frequency of both is annoying for viewers and would really hurt tf2 as an esport. It really could be an amazing tool for scrims, but I don''t think live comms from an outside source should be allowed in matches.
It's always nice when the community changes things and has new ideas to improve the game, and I think this could become one of them. In its current form however, it feels like a thing done exclusively by and for one team to give them an advantage.
[quote=Mould][quote=cirlo]
There is nothing you can do but accept the fact that now coaches are a reality in tf2 too[/quote]
yes there is, ban it if people want it gone
personally I don't think I'd like to see this happen again[/quote]
I'm not sure we should ban it right away. But, it definitely needs to be looked at. In its current form it really does give a clear advantage.
I like the idea of dedicated coaches being allowed to watch games. But main-calling feels like it's way too far. Letting them talk to their team between rounds and during pauses is pretty close to what coaches do in real sports, but pauses are infrequent and between round timers are way too short for any meaningful discussions or advice. Increasing the time or frequency of both is annoying for viewers and would really hurt tf2 as an esport. It really could be an amazing tool for scrims, but I don''t think live comms from an outside source should be allowed in matches.
It's always nice when the community changes things and has new ideas to improve the game, and I think this could become one of them. In its current form however, it feels like a thing done exclusively by and for one team to give them an advantage.
glorythe real mvp is seagull for that host right guys
yeah what happened to him
[quote=glory]the real mvp is seagull for that host right guys[/quote]
yeah what happened to him
Blitheglorythe real mvp is seagull for that host right guys
yeah what happened to him
he hosted it
i dont know if he ever tweeted or started streaming before hosting to notify his large audience, but during the grand finals he was hosting.
[quote=Blithe][quote=glory]the real mvp is seagull for that host right guys[/quote]
yeah what happened to him[/quote]
he hosted it
i dont know if he ever tweeted or started streaming before hosting to notify his large audience, but during the grand finals he was hosting.
Birdyrockswill i get minus fragged to shit for pointing out that crowns beat full tilt online without kaidus coaching and were in a equally as close game at dreamhack without kaidus, so claiming he somehow made this huge difference is pretty unfounded
1. LAN is different than online
2. FT were playing with dmoule instead of alle during the 2 times they faced in the regular season
3. If crowns used the DHS roster they would've lost due to how big of an impact both stark and kaptain had on their respective classes
[quote=Birdyrocks]will i get minus fragged to shit for pointing out that crowns beat full tilt online without kaidus coaching and were in a equally as close game at dreamhack without kaidus, so claiming he somehow made this huge difference is pretty unfounded[/quote]
1. LAN is different than online
2. FT were playing with dmoule instead of alle during the 2 times they faced in the regular season
3. If crowns used the DHS roster they would've lost due to how big of an impact both stark and kaptain had on their respective classes
PendjiAnyone got a link to the outro? Can't get the most recent broadcast on twitch.
did you not read the earlier posts? someone posted the YouTube link
[quote=Pendji]Anyone got a link to the outro? Can't get the most recent broadcast on twitch.[/quote]
did you not read the earlier posts? someone posted the YouTube link
Risingkiler4funThat outro thooo, I really hope that i61 happens, maybe it is time to go back, with or without a team... Much love for all the production crew <3
Quality point!
Maybe its time to come back with a team ???
Keepo
[quote=Rising][quote=kiler4fun]That outro thooo, I really hope that i61 happens, maybe it is time to go back, with or without a team... Much love for all the production crew <3[/quote]
Quality point![/quote]
Maybe its time to come back with a team ???
Keepo
smziRisingkiler4funThat outro thooo, I really hope that i61 happens, maybe it is time to go back, with or without a team... Much love for all the production crew <3
Quality point!
Maybe its time to come back with a team ???
Keepo
make it happen
[quote=smzi][quote=Rising][quote=kiler4fun]That outro thooo, I really hope that i61 happens, maybe it is time to go back, with or without a team... Much love for all the production crew <3[/quote]
Quality point![/quote]
Maybe its time to come back with a team ???
Keepo[/quote]
make it happen
Honestly I was fine with kaidus maincalling as coach because of how it came to be.
What you should compare isn't Crowns with kaidus maincalling on coach vs Crowns without kaidus but rather Crowns with kaidus maincalling on demo vs Crowns with kaidus maincalling on coach.
I'm pretty sure kaidus would've played if he could have done so. How much of an advantage was not having to play while maincalling? I don't know. Would Full Tilt have won if kaidus had played? I don't know. Would froyo have won vs Crowns if kaidus had played? I don't know.
What we do know is that without kaidus maincalling Crowns simply doesn't work. It was built around this. Without kaidus maincalling they had to switch Stark and kaptain so Stark could maincall and I think we can all agree that didn't work nearly as well.
So for the sake of getting to watch great TF2 I'm fine with it just this once.
However it should be banned as soon as possible. For Crowns it was the only way to keep up their level of play, maybe it was a slight upgrade. A new team that isn't depended on an injured maincaller could just get a straight DM upgrade on one class while improving their maincalling a bit at the same time.
Coaching between maps isn't preventable. Coaching between rounds wouldn't be possible outside of LAN without ~2 minute tactical pauses between each round or plugins. Allow it or ban it but be clear about it.
Honestly I was fine with kaidus maincalling as coach because of how it came to be.
What you should compare isn't Crowns with kaidus maincalling on coach vs Crowns without kaidus but rather Crowns with kaidus maincalling on demo vs Crowns with kaidus maincalling on coach.
I'm pretty sure kaidus would've played if he could have done so. How much of an advantage was not having to play while maincalling? I don't know. Would Full Tilt have won if kaidus had played? I don't know. Would froyo have won vs Crowns if kaidus had played? I don't know.
What we do know is that without kaidus maincalling Crowns simply doesn't work. It was built around this. Without kaidus maincalling they had to switch Stark and kaptain so Stark could maincall and I think we can all agree that didn't work nearly as well.
So for the sake of getting to watch great TF2 I'm fine with it just this once.
However it should be banned as soon as possible. For Crowns it was the only way to keep up their level of play, maybe it was a slight upgrade. A new team that isn't depended on an injured maincaller could just get a straight DM upgrade on one class while improving their maincalling a bit at the same time.
Coaching between maps isn't preventable. Coaching between rounds wouldn't be possible outside of LAN without ~2 minute tactical pauses between each round or plugins. Allow it or ban it but be clear about it.
I missed everything apart from the first game FeelsBadMan
I missed everything apart from the first game FeelsBadMan
SetsulHow much of an advantage was not having to play while maincalling?
Not having to play while maincalling enables you to focus completely on tactics, that's why people are upset about kaidus coaching as the 7th player. You don't have to manage personal things like positioning, ammo, health, spam et all while also focusing on tactical things when not playing. The players can focus on playing and kaidus can focus on maincalling even more.
They should have asked the other 5 teams before the LAN. This wasn't decided democratically.
However, at the end of the day, Full Tilt only have to blame themselves for losing this because they simply never played the point when they could. If they fix that they are probably the strongest team in the world at the moment, without needing a coach.
Still, congratulations to crowns.
[quote=Setsul]How much of an advantage was not having to play while maincalling?[/quote]
Not having to play while maincalling enables you to focus completely on tactics, that's why people are upset about kaidus coaching as the 7th player. You don't have to manage personal things like positioning, ammo, health, spam et all while also focusing on tactical things when not playing. The players can focus on playing and kaidus can focus on maincalling even more.
They should have asked the other 5 teams before the LAN. This wasn't decided democratically.
However, at the end of the day, Full Tilt only have to blame themselves for losing this because they simply never played the point when they could. If they fix that they are probably the strongest team in the world at the moment, without needing a coach.
Still, congratulations to crowns.
I wrote "how much of an advantage" not "is it an advantage".
But thank you for explaining that it's an advantage not having to play while maincalling anyway.
GazThey should have asked the other 5 teams before the LAN. This wasn't decided democratically.
Do you think the other teams should be consulted for roster upgrades as well? Those aren't decided democratically either.
None of this should be democratic. This isn't like mercs where you have "agreed" to play against a certain team and now they "want" to "swap" a player. Any team is free to show up to LAN with the roster they signed up and they are free to sign up the best roster they can get. Whether or not they can sign up with a coach is decided by the tournament admins or whoever else made the rules. Those can ask the teams for input and can just as well ignore their suggestions. No democracy needed.
I wrote "how much of an advantage" not "is it an advantage".
But thank you for explaining that it's an advantage not having to play while maincalling anyway.
[quote=Gaz]They should have asked the other 5 teams before the LAN. This wasn't decided democratically.[/quote]
Do you think the other teams should be consulted for roster upgrades as well? Those aren't decided democratically either.
None of this should be democratic. This isn't like mercs where you have "agreed" to play against a certain team and now they "want" to "swap" a player. Any team is free to show up to LAN with the roster they signed up and they are free to sign up the best roster they can get. Whether or not they can sign up with a coach is decided by the tournament admins or whoever else made the rules. Those can ask the teams for input and can just as well ignore their suggestions. No democracy needed.
If Crowns were denied a coach long time ago, then they would have practiced without it, possibly mastering the stark->pocket and kaptain->scout roster change. Dreamhack was played without kaidus maincalling while still drawing full tilt in that premature grand final and IIRC Crowns won the ETF2L season without a maincalling coach.
If kaidus couldnt maincall just a day before i58 then obviously Crowns would have been much worse. If kaidus couldnt maincall 3 months before i58, Crowns could have adapted easily and still won.
E: I also think that from this day forward we should adopt the CS:GO way of things, so that coach can only analyze but not maincall.
If Crowns were denied a coach long time ago, then they would have practiced without it, possibly mastering the stark->pocket and kaptain->scout roster change. Dreamhack was played without kaidus maincalling while still drawing full tilt in that premature grand final and IIRC Crowns won the ETF2L season without a maincalling coach.
If kaidus couldnt maincall just a day before i58 then obviously Crowns would have been much worse. If kaidus couldnt maincall 3 months before i58, Crowns could have adapted easily and still won.
E: I also think that from this day forward we should adopt the CS:GO way of things, so that coach can only analyze but not maincall.
I'm not a very big fan of it simply because a coach in this position will simply see more than any of the players.
I think every demo review I've ever done, or see someone else do, has included multiple "oh I didn't just see that at the time" moments. There's a lot that you don't see or consider when you're fighting or just thinking about something else. That's effectively gone with a main-calling coach, multiple times over. It's a huge advantage over a team without one. On top of that, think of how often any kind of flank play can be nullified by having someone simply not involved with any action repeatedly warning you to check behind, or check for spies/snipers, or check for stickies while your surging forward, etc.
The potential for this kind of coaching is extremely high, but whether or not it played out that much is hard to know. It can obviously be a really big advantage over a team without one though.
I'm not a very big fan of it simply because a coach in this position will simply see more than any of the players.
I think every demo review I've ever done, or see someone else do, has included multiple "oh I didn't just see that at the time" moments. There's a lot that you don't see or consider when you're fighting or just thinking about something else. That's effectively gone with a main-calling coach, multiple times over. It's a huge advantage over a team without one. On top of that, think of how often any kind of flank play can be nullified by having someone simply not involved with any action repeatedly warning you to check behind, or check for spies/snipers, or check for stickies while your surging forward, etc.
The potential for this kind of coaching is extremely high, but whether or not it played out that much is hard to know. It can obviously be a really big advantage over a team without one though.
i don't get whats being discussed. crowns wouldnt have won without kaidus. the other teams would have performed better with a coach (and while players of kaidus' caliber are a rarity, there were plenty of players teamless and present who could've done it). while i disagree with the decision of allowing coaches to begin with, all teams but crowns gimped themselves by not using a coach. heck even i can read health off a spec hud, anyone would've been better than none.
i don't get whats being discussed. crowns wouldnt have won without kaidus. the other teams would have performed better with a coach (and while players of kaidus' caliber are a rarity, there were plenty of players teamless and present who could've done it). while i disagree with the decision of allowing coaches to begin with, all teams but crowns gimped themselves by not using a coach. heck even i can read health off a spec hud, anyone would've been better than none.
Hallowi don't get whats being discussed. crowns wouldnt have won without kaidus. the other teams would have performed better with a coach (and while players of kaidus' caliber are a rarity, there were plenty of players teamless and present who could've done it). while i disagree with the decision of allowing coaches to begin with, all teams but crowns gimped themselves by not using a coach. heck even i can read health off a spec hud, anyone would've been better than none.
Well certainly teams had the carte blanche to get coaches, but in preperation for the i series I think teams were going there with the idea in mind to compete in an meta established for years and not 7s
[quote=Hallow]i don't get whats being discussed. crowns wouldnt have won without kaidus. the other teams would have performed better with a coach (and while players of kaidus' caliber are a rarity, there were plenty of players teamless and present who could've done it). while i disagree with the decision of allowing coaches to begin with, all teams but crowns gimped themselves by not using a coach. heck even i can read health off a spec hud, anyone would've been better than none.[/quote]
Well certainly teams had the carte blanche to get coaches, but in preperation for the i series I think teams were going there with the idea in mind to compete in an meta established for years and not 7s
EvrewsHallowi don't get whats being discussed. crowns wouldnt have won without kaidus. the other teams would have performed better with a coach (and while players of kaidus' caliber are a rarity, there were plenty of players teamless and present who could've done it). while i disagree with the decision of allowing coaches to begin with, all teams but crowns gimped themselves by not using a coach. heck even i can read health off a spec hud, anyone would've been better than none.
Well certainly teams had the carte blanche to get coaches, but in preperation for the i series I think teams were going there with the idea in mind to compete in an meta established for years and not 7s
What does that even mean?!? The meta isn't changed! Stop this bullshit of overdramatizing everything. Hallows' point is a thing too: team had 2 months to find a person that could tell them the health of the whole team.
That said after all these criticism i doubt we'll see this feature again as we've seen it now.
[quote=Evrews][quote=Hallow]i don't get whats being discussed. crowns wouldnt have won without kaidus. the other teams would have performed better with a coach (and while players of kaidus' caliber are a rarity, there were plenty of players teamless and present who could've done it). while i disagree with the decision of allowing coaches to begin with, all teams but crowns gimped themselves by not using a coach. heck even i can read health off a spec hud, anyone would've been better than none.[/quote]
Well certainly teams had the carte blanche to get coaches, but in preperation for the i series I think teams were going there with the idea in mind to [b]compete in an meta established for years and not 7s[/b][/quote]
What does that even mean?!? The meta isn't changed! Stop this bullshit of overdramatizing everything. Hallows' point is a thing too: team had 2 months to find a person that could tell them the health of the whole team.
That said after all these criticism i doubt we'll see this feature again as we've seen it now.
cirloHallows' point is a thing too: team had 2 months to find a person that could tell them the health of the whole team.
They would need a seat, a ticket, a computer. This wouldn't have been possible for Jasmine Tea, for instance, who already had to use a fundraiser in order to just attend. As well as this, the teams would have needed to find a "7th" player of the right calibre, who is worth the effort for the additional calls and participation. Obviously the advantage of having Crowns' particular coach is blatant, it's not like every team is gonna have a kaidus.
[quote=cirlo]Hallows' point is a thing too: team had 2 months to find a person that could tell them the health of the whole team. [/quote]
They would need a seat, a ticket, a computer. This wouldn't have been possible for Jasmine Tea, for instance, who already had to use a fundraiser in order to just attend. As well as this, the teams would have needed to find a "7th" player of the right calibre, who is worth the effort for the additional calls and participation. Obviously the advantage of having Crowns' particular coach is blatant, it's not like every team is gonna have a kaidus.
If using a coach isn't a big advantage then you don't need to try so hard to defend their right to use one
If using a coach isn't a big advantage then you don't need to try so hard to defend their right to use one
i'll coach any team at dreamhack hmu
i'll coach any team at dreamhack hmu
FunscirloHallows' point is a thing too: team had 2 months to find a person that could tell them the health of the whole team.
They would need a seat, a ticket, a computer. This wouldn't have been possible for Jasmine Tea, for instance, who already had to use a fundraiser in order to just attend. As well as this, the teams would have needed to find a "7th" player of the right calibre, who is worth the effort for the additional calls and participation. Obviously the advantage of having Crowns' particular coach is blatant, it's not like every team is gonna have a kaidus.
my point is that literally anyone is better than no one. there were definitely people there who could've given another perspective which no doubt would've helped their game. full tilt primarily, but also jasmine tea and froyo were fools not making use of all of their tools.
[quote=Funs][quote=cirlo]Hallows' point is a thing too: team had 2 months to find a person that could tell them the health of the whole team. [/quote]
They would need a seat, a ticket, a computer. This wouldn't have been possible for Jasmine Tea, for instance, who already had to use a fundraiser in order to just attend. As well as this, the teams would have needed to find a "7th" player of the right calibre, who is worth the effort for the additional calls and participation. Obviously the advantage of having Crowns' particular coach is blatant, it's not like every team is gonna have a kaidus.[/quote]
my point is that literally anyone is better than no one. there were definitely people there who could've given another perspective which no doubt would've helped their game. full tilt primarily, but also jasmine tea and froyo were fools not making use of all of their tools.