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koth_bagel
91
#91
1 Frags +

Sorry for not catching this stuff before posting about the thing in lobby, but

small clipping thing here http://imgur.com/0ftbcTK
(you can slide up it)

as well as this corner http://imgur.com/5o6QTWs is awkward if you get caught in it, because you are stuck crouching between the wall clipping (http://imgur.com/XZ843MX) and the props

these aren't really important, just small things I noticed

Sorry for not catching this stuff before posting about the thing in lobby, but

small clipping thing here http://imgur.com/0ftbcTK
(you can slide up it)

as well as this corner http://imgur.com/5o6QTWs is awkward if you get caught in it, because you are stuck crouching between the wall clipping (http://imgur.com/XZ843MX) and the props

these aren't really important, just small things I noticed
92
#92
0 Frags +

One aesthetic problem I have is the obnoxious "CONTROL POINT" words on the nipple. A solid color is good enough.

One aesthetic problem I have is the obnoxious "CONTROL POINT" words on the nipple. A solid color is good enough.
93
#93
koth_bagel
5 Frags +

it actually was solid colour briefly but people wanted the words back lol

it actually was solid colour briefly but people wanted the words back lol
94
#94
-3 Frags +

is this dead?

is this dead?
95
#95
0 Frags +
Kingorcocis this dead?

maybe his map is done and he's not like phi and hyce..

[quote=Kingorcoc]is this dead?[/quote]
maybe his map is done and he's not like phi and hyce..
96
#96
3 Frags +

add this map to next season onegai

add this map to next season onegai
97
#97
26 Frags +

Hey congrats on getting in the game with the new update man

Hey congrats on getting in the game with the new update man
98
#98
koth_bagel
11 Frags +

Thanks! It's kinda surreal honestly.

There's some changes I experimented with in the halloween version that I'd be interested on hearing opinions about, such as the modified flank and the more central spawn.

Thanks! It's kinda surreal honestly.

There's some changes I experimented with in the halloween version that I'd be interested on hearing opinions about, such as the modified flank and the more central spawn.
99
#99
5 Frags +

one of the best IF NOT the best halloween map this year
does this mean the normal version will be in the game in the upcoming weeks ?

one of the best IF NOT the best halloween map this year
does this mean the normal version will be in the game in the upcoming weeks ?
100
#100
koth_bagel
15 Frags +
sagedoes this mean the normal version will be in the game in the upcoming weeks ?

i wish lol

[quote=sage]does this mean the normal version will be in the game in the upcoming weeks ?[/quote]
i wish lol
101
#101
3 Frags +
Yrrsagedoes this mean the normal version will be in the game in the upcoming weeks ?i wish lol

Isn't that what happened with sunshine though?

My memory is a little foggy but I thought we had sinshine only first, then they later after the end of the halloween event added in the full regular sunshine.

[quote=Yrr][quote=sage]does this mean the normal version will be in the game in the upcoming weeks ?[/quote]
i wish lol[/quote]

Isn't that what happened with sunshine though?

My memory is a little foggy but I thought we had sinshine only first, then they later after the end of the halloween event added in the full regular sunshine.
102
#102
0 Frags +
HyceYrrsagedoes this mean the normal version will be in the game in the upcoming weeks ?i wish lol
Isn't that what happened with sunshine though?

My memory is a little foggy but I thought we had sinshine only first, then they later after the end of the halloween event added in the full regular sunshine.

Yes, Sinshine was released in the SF'15 update and Sunshine was later added in the MYM update (2016-07-07)

[quote=Hyce][quote=Yrr][quote=sage]does this mean the normal version will be in the game in the upcoming weeks ?[/quote]
i wish lol[/quote]

Isn't that what happened with sunshine though?

My memory is a little foggy but I thought we had sinshine only first, then they later after the end of the halloween event added in the full regular sunshine.[/quote]

Yes, Sinshine was released in the SF'15 update and Sunshine was later added in the MYM update (2016-07-07)
103
#103
koth_bagel
6 Frags +

Sunshine was added officially but Millstone (hellstone), Moonshine, Fifthcurve (brimstone) and Maple Ridge weren't.

Sunshine being added officially may have had something to do with being a competitive staple at the time, during a competitive update.

But! If people like Bagel a lot then hey maybe! I can dream!

Sunshine was added officially but Millstone (hellstone), Moonshine, Fifthcurve (brimstone) and Maple Ridge weren't.

Sunshine being added officially may have had something to do with being a competitive staple at the time, during a competitive update.

But! If people like Bagel a lot then hey maybe! I can dream!
104
#104
koth_bagel
11 Frags +

Experimental post-Halloween version
Download: koth_bagel_fall_b2
Download: koth_bagel_fall_b3
EDIT: The lighting on b2 had an overpowering orange tint that made team recognition difficult, so I updated to a newer version with better lighting/visuals

Some of you probably played Cauldron (bagel_event) during Scream Fortress and noticed that there were some layout changes. These were ideas I'd been considering for a while but didn't want to waste an official version trying, so I made them on the Halloween version.

I've now de-halloweened it (actually I did this last year but didn't finish it) so that you can try out the changes and see which ones are beneficial to the map, and which aren't.

Changelog (compared to standard bagel):
Major

-Artstyle overhaul - NOT FINAL
-Centred Spawn building in Yard
-Opened Concrete entirely
-Changed Ramp into a slightly longer flank that no longer gives people holding in House visibility to Valley.
-House changed to accommodate this
-Added boiler housing to Ramp exit/Valley, providing additional cover and an easier jump route from Valley to Mid for scouts
-Climb route in Lobby replaced with a vent ~jump pad~ #controversial
-Added A Thing on Balcony, blocking snipers from holding too many angles from House at once, and acting as a perch spot for soldiers
-Buffed health on wood to Medium
Minor
-Clutter/cover changes around the map
-Various changes for visuals
-Added small platform jutting out from Mid on each side (this wasn't even in Cauldron and mostly I just hope it isn't invasive)

Screenshots:

Show Content
[h]Experimental post-Halloween version[/h]
[s]Download: [url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/bagel_fall.5527/download?version=16797]koth_bagel_fall_b2[/url][/s]
[b]Download: [url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/bagel_fall.5527/download?version=16801]koth_bagel_fall_b3[/url][/b]
[b]EDIT:[/b] The lighting on b2 had an overpowering orange tint that made team recognition difficult, so I updated to a newer version with better lighting/visuals

Some of you probably played Cauldron (bagel_event) during Scream Fortress and noticed that there were some layout changes. These were ideas I'd been considering for a while but didn't want to waste an official version trying, so I made them on the Halloween version.

I've now de-halloweened it (actually I did this last year but didn't finish it) so that you can try out the changes and see which ones are beneficial to the map, and which aren't.

[b]Changelog (compared to standard bagel):
Major[/b]
-Artstyle overhaul - NOT FINAL
-Centred Spawn building in Yard
-Opened Concrete entirely
-Changed Ramp into a slightly longer flank that no longer gives people holding in House visibility to Valley.
-House changed to accommodate this
-Added boiler housing to Ramp exit/Valley, providing additional cover and an easier jump route from Valley to Mid for scouts
-Climb route in Lobby replaced with a vent ~jump pad~ #controversial
-Added A Thing on Balcony, blocking snipers from holding too many angles from House at once, and acting as a perch spot for soldiers
-Buffed health on wood to Medium
[b]Minor[/b]
-Clutter/cover changes around the map
-Various changes for visuals
-Added small platform jutting out from Mid on each side (this wasn't even in Cauldron and mostly I just hope it isn't invasive)

[b]Screenshots:[/b]
[spoiler]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/ss1-png.91347/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/ss2-png.91348/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/ss3-png.91349/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/ss4-png.91350/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/ss5-png.91351/[/img]
[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/ss6-png.91352/[/img][/spoiler]
105
#105
koth_bagel
8 Frags +

Sorry to bump but I'd like to hear how this version plays!

Sorry to bump but I'd like to hear how this version plays!
106
#106
3 Frags +

Could someone upload koth_bagel_fall_b3 to serveme.tf ?

Could someone upload [b]koth_bagel_fall_b3[/b] to serveme.tf ?
107
#107
3 Frags +
sageCould someone upload koth_bagel_fall_b3 to serveme.tf ?

that should be it uploaded now

[quote=sage]Could someone upload [b]koth_bagel_fall_b3[/b] to serveme.tf ?[/quote]
that should be it uploaded now
108
#108
1 Frags +

just from a quick look here are some thoughts

might be worth moving this https://i.imgur.com/UzQV1Pr.jpg
when trying to jump off the corner it makes it a bit awkward

after removing this https://i.imgur.com/A0brCMe.jpg
it seems like the sightline from here may be a bit OP https://i.imgur.com/9SJBkQw.jpg
it also means people coming through this door are vulnerable making the bottom entrance theonly real way to combat a sniper in this position https://i.imgur.com/3lSIa0g.jpg
not too sure what you could do to combat this but maybe bringing back the wall would be a good idea.
other than that will try get some dmixes on this map to try it out

just from a quick look here are some thoughts

might be worth moving this https://i.imgur.com/UzQV1Pr.jpg
when trying to jump off the corner it makes it a bit awkward

after removing this https://i.imgur.com/A0brCMe.jpg
it seems like the sightline from here may be a bit OP https://i.imgur.com/9SJBkQw.jpg
it also means people coming through this door are vulnerable making the bottom entrance theonly real way to combat a sniper in this position https://i.imgur.com/3lSIa0g.jpg
not too sure what you could do to combat this but maybe bringing back the wall would be a good idea.
other than that will try get some dmixes on this map to try it out
109
#109
koth_bagel
7 Frags +

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/420268109317013514/701164437091909833/bagel_update_promo.png

Download: koth_bagel_fall_b5

Making some various visual and polish updates to this map for the first time in a couple years.

I'll look into removing that crate next update as I'm not sure it's needed any more.
I am unlikely to check this thread too often, but feel free to let me know about QoL fixes/small things.
(Keep in mind most planned updates are purely visual/polish, this map is pretty far beyond making big sweeping changes at this point)

b4:
-The central cap tower is now a large liquid Australium power core.
-On either side of mid are turbine pumps, which turn on and off as the point changes hands, and draw australium from the core. Over the duration of a match you will notice the rotors turn on and the shaft slowly fill with liquid australium.
-The turbines occupy previously problem areas. Little corners with sniper sightline issues, awkward geometry to navigate, and bland visuals. Hopefully the turbines solve a number of problems here.

b5:
Capturing the point will now cause the tower and capturing team's turbine to vent Australium steam
-New custom golden steam particles
-Steam venting makes audible sound
-Turbines now hum while active

[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/420268109317013514/701164437091909833/bagel_update_promo.png[/img]
[b]Download: [url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/bagel-2020.5527/download?version=23245]koth_bagel_fall_b5[/url][/b]

Making some various visual and polish updates to this map for the first time in a couple years.

I'll look into removing that crate next update as I'm not sure it's needed any more.
I am unlikely to check this thread too often, but feel free to let me know about QoL fixes/small things.
(Keep in mind most planned updates are purely visual/polish, this map is pretty far beyond making big sweeping changes at this point)

[b]b4:[/b]
-The central cap tower is now a large liquid Australium power core.
-On either side of mid are turbine pumps, which turn on and off as the point changes hands, and draw australium from the core. Over the duration of a match you will notice the rotors turn on and the shaft slowly fill with liquid australium.
-The turbines occupy previously problem areas. Little corners with sniper sightline issues, awkward geometry to navigate, and bland visuals. Hopefully the turbines solve a number of problems here.

[b]b5:[/b]
Capturing the point will now cause the tower and capturing team's turbine to vent Australium steam
-New custom golden steam particles
-Steam venting makes audible sound
-Turbines now hum while active
110
#110
0 Frags +

been watching this progress on the discord, looks really nice :-D

been watching this progress on the discord, looks really nice :-D
111
#111
1 Frags +

please please this instead of clearcut PLEASE

please please this instead of clearcut PLEASE
112
#112
koth_bagel
4 Frags +

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/b6_promo-png.121693/

Download: koth_bagel_fall_b6a

b6 changelog
-Massive clipping and decluttering pass
-Replaced a bunch of placeholder crates with closer to final crates
-Switched a few blockbullets clips over to invisible displacements. This was done for backend reasons but additionally it functions like a blockbullets brush that only affects explosives, so bullets will no longer disappear in those spots.
-Adjusted fade distances on a lot of props to make them less jarring
-Improved lighting on blu concrete
-Minor detail adjustments

b6a
-Fixed a couple edges players could become stuck in

[img]https://tf2maps.net/attachments/b6_promo-png.121693/[/img]
[b]Download: [url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/bagel-2020.5527/download?version=23377]koth_bagel_fall_b6a[/url][/b]

[b]b6 changelog[/b]
-Massive clipping and decluttering pass
-Replaced a bunch of placeholder crates with closer to final crates
-Switched a few blockbullets clips over to invisible displacements. This was done for backend reasons but additionally it functions like a blockbullets brush that only affects explosives, so bullets will no longer disappear in those spots.
-Adjusted fade distances on a lot of props to make them less jarring
-Improved lighting on blu concrete
-Minor detail adjustments

[b]b6a[/b]
-Fixed a couple edges players could become stuck in
113
#113
koth_bagel
5 Frags +

Download: koth_bagel_fall_b7

b7 changelog
The clipping above the turbines was poorly conveyed and intrusive to jumping soldiers. It has been pared back and marked better.
-Improved clipping around top of turbines
-Added pipe to better visualise clipping

[b]Download: [url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/bagel-2020.5527/download?version=23421]koth_bagel_fall_b7[/url][/b]

[b]b7 changelog[/b]
The clipping above the turbines was poorly conveyed and intrusive to jumping soldiers. It has been pared back and marked better.
-Improved clipping around top of turbines
-Added pipe to better visualise clipping
114
#114
koth_bagel
2 Frags +

Download: koth_bagel_fall_b8

b8 changelog
This was going to just be a Jump Pad visual update but a major splash clipping issue was discovered that required overhauling a lot of the existing splash clipping. (If you were wondering, Invisible Displacements are solid to players, grenades, and stickies, but not rockets).

-Jump pad visual update, including new particles. (Thanks pont for the rumble)

-Some minor visual and lighting updates

-Collision meshes created to replace old splash clipping on complex shapes.

-Minor geo change in house to make splash more consistent

[b]Download: [url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/bagel-2020.5527/download?version=23646]koth_bagel_fall_b8[/url][/b]

[b]b8 changelog[/b]
This was going to just be a Jump Pad visual update but a major splash clipping issue was discovered that required overhauling a lot of the existing splash clipping. (If you were wondering, Invisible Displacements are solid to players, grenades, and stickies, but not rockets).

-Jump pad visual update, including new particles. (Thanks pont for the rumble)

-Some minor visual and lighting updates

-Collision meshes created to replace old splash clipping on complex shapes.

-Minor geo change in house to make splash more consistent
115
#115
0 Frags +

From what I've seen the ease of flanking through either house and the really big lobby tend to turn this map into a DM fest really fast, and that also makes playing the point quite hard since you can be surprise attacked from kinda everywhere and the size of the central turbine doesn't help. It looks really dope, and I love the general theme you're going for but I don't seen myself enjoying playing this map until it becomes a bit less hectic.

From what I've seen the ease of flanking through either house and the really big lobby tend to turn this map into a DM fest really fast, and that also makes playing the point quite hard since you can be surprise attacked from kinda everywhere and the size of the central turbine doesn't help. It looks really dope, and I love the general theme you're going for but I don't seen myself enjoying playing this map until it becomes a bit less hectic.
116
#116
4 Frags +
AelkyrFrom what I've seen the ease of flanking through either house and the really big lobby tend to turn this map into a DM fest really fast, and that also makes playing the point quite hard since you can be surprise attacked from kinda everywhere and the size of the central turbine doesn't help. It looks really dope, and I love the general theme you're going for but I don't seen myself enjoying playing this map until it becomes a bit less hectic.

the faster captime makes for more back and forth and close games imo, which makes it a somewhat less dependant on pure dm.
for the big flanks. it takes 1 player to just generally look at the house to deny a flank, it can be seen from pretty much any angle on the map and its so easy to spot flankers.
overall this map made for the most fun games in tf2 ive played in a while.

[quote=Aelkyr]From what I've seen the ease of flanking through either house and the really big lobby tend to turn this map into a DM fest really fast, and that also makes playing the point quite hard since you can be surprise attacked from kinda everywhere and the size of the central turbine doesn't help. It looks really dope, and I love the general theme you're going for but I don't seen myself enjoying playing this map until it becomes a bit less hectic.[/quote]
the faster captime makes for more back and forth and close games imo, which makes it a somewhat less dependant on pure dm.
for the big flanks. it takes 1 player to just generally look at the house to deny a flank, it can be seen from pretty much any angle on the map and its so easy to spot flankers.
overall this map made for the most fun games in tf2 ive played in a while.
117
#117
0 Frags +
caaaaaaaaatthe faster captime makes for more back and forth and close games imo, which makes it a somewhat less dependant on pure dm.
for the big flanks. it takes 1 player to just generally look at the house to deny a flank, it can be seen from pretty much any angle on the map and its so easy to spot flankers.
overall this map made for the most fun games in tf2 ive played in a while.

Personally disagree here, bagel has a lot of back-and-forth like you said, which greatly helps someone sneaking by. Once someone is behind, they have the gigantic lobby at their disposal, with 2 medium packs and 3 exits all close to one another. To be fair I tend to really dislike koth in general, so i think we happen to have really clashing opinions, and the chaos will probably be toned down after people get used to the map. However, I think it's going to take more than one season for everyone to be more used to the map and for me it won't be fun before that so I can't say I would want it right now.

[quote=caaaaaaaaat]
the faster captime makes for more back and forth and close games imo, which makes it a somewhat less dependant on pure dm.
for the big flanks. it takes 1 player to just generally look at the house to deny a flank, it can be seen from pretty much any angle on the map and its so easy to spot flankers.
overall this map made for the most fun games in tf2 ive played in a while.[/quote]
Personally disagree here, bagel has a lot of back-and-forth like you said, which greatly helps someone sneaking by. Once someone is behind, they have the gigantic lobby at their disposal, with 2 medium packs and 3 exits all close to one another. To be fair I tend to really dislike koth in general, so i think we happen to have really clashing opinions, and the chaos will probably be toned down after people get used to the map. However, I think it's going to take more than one season for everyone to be more used to the map and for me it won't be fun before that so I can't say I would want it right now.
118
#118
4 Frags +

Fighting over the point feels super scrappy, every fight feels like ur taking a 1v1 instead of a co-ordinated team fight cos of how vision-blocking/corner-choke heavy the map feels, its very claustrophobic to fight around the point and cos there is like literally 0 colour differences on either side it makes comms pretty confusing

the spawn timers are also ridiculously fast, i would kill someone at the health pack in their lobby/house thing and they would spawn by the time i got back to the point, just encourages feed bombing non stop it feels like.

Liked that it wasn't sniper dominant and there was some good opportunities to do some fun small ad pushes playing off the vision-blocking structures of the map

was ok would play again

Fighting over the point feels super scrappy, every fight feels like ur taking a 1v1 instead of a co-ordinated team fight cos of how vision-blocking/corner-choke heavy the map feels, its very claustrophobic to fight around the point and cos there is like literally 0 colour differences on either side it makes comms pretty confusing

the spawn timers are also ridiculously fast, i would kill someone at the health pack in their lobby/house thing and they would spawn by the time i got back to the point, just encourages feed bombing non stop it feels like.

Liked that it wasn't sniper dominant and there was some good opportunities to do some fun small ad pushes playing off the vision-blocking structures of the map

was ok would play again
119
#119
4 Frags +

this map is super epic so far! i found that the flank houses are odd for play but arent a really problem just unique. its definitely my favourite to play of the koth maps.
the main change id want to try is more space between either side-house thingy and the point cause it can get really clustered

this map is super epic so far! i found that the flank houses are odd for play but arent a really problem just unique. its definitely my favourite to play of the koth maps.
the main change id want to try is more space between either side-house thingy and the point cause it can get really clustered
120
#120
-2 Frags +

I would play this over product.

I would play this over product.
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