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PugChamp
posted in Projects
1351
#1351
-9 Frags +

could there be some sort of incentive to pick the guys with 0 pugs?
i invited a friend a few times and all of them he was fatkidded because of 0 pugs, and it becomes a loop where he doesnt get picked for having 0 pugs and he has 0 pugs because hes always fatkidded

could there be some sort of incentive to pick the guys with 0 pugs?
i invited a friend a few times and all of them he was fatkidded because of 0 pugs, and it becomes a loop where he doesnt get picked for having 0 pugs and he has 0 pugs because hes always fatkidded
1352
#1352
-4 Frags +
sagecould there be some sort of incentive to pick the guys with 0 pugs?
i invited a friend a few times and all of them he was fatkidded because of 0 pugs, and it becomes a loop where he doesnt get picked for having 0 pugs and he has 0 pugs because hes always fatkidded

Step 1 to playing Pugchamp with 0 pugs: Dont play. Find a in-house pug group that is fun and play there instead

[quote=sage]could there be some sort of incentive to pick the guys with 0 pugs?
i invited a friend a few times and all of them he was fatkidded because of 0 pugs, and it becomes a loop where he doesnt get picked for having 0 pugs and he has 0 pugs because hes always fatkidded[/quote]
Step 1 to playing Pugchamp with 0 pugs: Dont play. Find a in-house pug group that is fun and play there instead
1353
#1353
5 Frags +

i agree, there should be an easier way to play pugs on tf2 without having to hunt down an inhouse group, and even in in-house groups they get fat kidded unless its a 12 person game

i agree, there should be an easier way to play pugs on tf2 without having to hunt down an inhouse group, and even in in-house groups they get fat kidded unless its a 12 person game
1354
#1354
6 Frags +
seven1sagecould there be some sort of incentive to pick the guys with 0 pugs?
i invited a friend a few times and all of them he was fatkidded because of 0 pugs, and it becomes a loop where he doesnt get picked for having 0 pugs and he has 0 pugs because hes always fatkidded
Step 1 to playing Pugchamp with 0 pugs: Dont play. Find a in-house pug group that is fun and play there instead

oh sorry i meant 0 pugs on pugchamp

also what the other guy says, it would be nice if pugchamp was a more open platform now that mixchamp is shut down, you could have the average pug and then a poverty pug
it shouldnt affect the quality of games, just have more games instead of wanting the people that arent high div or well known kicked out, the captains balance things out well in most situations anyway

[quote=seven1][quote=sage]could there be some sort of incentive to pick the guys with 0 pugs?
i invited a friend a few times and all of them he was fatkidded because of 0 pugs, and it becomes a loop where he doesnt get picked for having 0 pugs and he has 0 pugs because hes always fatkidded[/quote]
Step 1 to playing Pugchamp with 0 pugs: Dont play. Find a in-house pug group that is fun and play there instead[/quote]
oh sorry i meant 0 pugs on pugchamp

also what the other guy says, it would be nice if pugchamp was a more open platform now that mixchamp is shut down, you could have the average pug and then a poverty pug
it shouldnt affect the quality of games, just have more games instead of wanting the people that arent high div or well known kicked out, the captains balance things out well in most situations anyway
1355
#1355
12 Frags +

That comes down to you convincing other lower players to add up to PugChamp. Most people just avoid cause they know they're gonna get fatkidded but if all those people added then they could get their own pugs going once the higher level pug gets picked

That comes down to you convincing other lower players to add up to PugChamp. Most people just avoid cause they know they're gonna get fatkidded but if all those people added then they could get their own pugs going once the higher level pug gets picked
1356
#1356
2 Frags +
DylanThat comes down to you convincing other lower players to add up to PugChamp. Most people just avoid cause they know they're gonna get fatkidded but if all those people added then they could get their own pugs going once the higher level pug gets picked

well i remember one afternoon there was lots of people with 0 pugs played in EU PugChamp but nobody wanted to captain because they didnt know them
so the people that are known get picked all the time and the people that aren't just constantly get fatkidded, its the snail that bytes its tail

[quote=Dylan]That comes down to you convincing other lower players to add up to PugChamp. Most people just avoid cause they know they're gonna get fatkidded but if all those people added then they could get their own pugs going once the higher level pug gets picked[/quote]
well i remember one afternoon there was lots of people with 0 pugs played in EU PugChamp but nobody wanted to captain because they didnt know them
so the people that are known get picked all the time and the people that aren't just constantly get fatkidded, its the snail that bytes its tail
1357
#1357
9 Frags +

https://na.mix.champ.gg/

mixchamp is back!

https://na.mix.champ.gg/

mixchamp is back!
1358
#1358
15 Frags +

Mixchamp is revived, need some people to add up to it right now to test that everything works fine.

Some changes from how it used to be:
- If the role and player conditions are met for a pug and there's no captains, it will be picked automatically as it was before. If there are 2 captains, it will be picked pugchamp style. (Not implemented atm but will be in a couple days. Right now it functions the same as pugchamp)

- Invite combat class mains can only play medic. Invite medic players can only add up on offclasses they are less comfortable on. Advanced players in general can only add up on offclasses they are less comfortable on. Mixchamp is intended to be reserved for players in RGL open - main, and higher level players are not allowed to take slots in a pug from players in those divisions

Mixchamp is revived, need some people to [url=https://na.mix.champ.gg/]add up to it right now [/url]to test that everything works fine.

Some changes from how it used to be:
- If the role and player conditions are met for a pug and there's no captains, it will be picked automatically as it was before. If there are 2 captains, it will be picked pugchamp style. (Not implemented atm but will be in a couple days. Right now it functions the same as pugchamp)

- Invite combat class mains can only play medic. Invite medic players can only add up on offclasses they are less comfortable on. Advanced players in general can only add up on offclasses they are less comfortable on. Mixchamp is intended to be reserved for players in RGL open - main, and higher level players are not allowed to take slots in a pug from players in those divisions
1359
#1359
18 Frags +

bring back visible elo tbh

bring back visible elo tbh
1360
#1360
-3 Frags +

what class can i not play, ive played all classes in advanced [let me play demo]

what class can i not play, ive played all classes in advanced [let me play demo]
1361
#1361
8 Frags +

I really don't know where the negative mentality for elo came from? I guess it was because people want pugs to be for fun and not playing for the win, but having some dude just not try on your team isn't fun when the rest of you wanna win

I really don't know where the negative mentality for elo came from? I guess it was because people want pugs to be for fun and not playing for the win, but having some dude just not try on your team isn't fun when the rest of you wanna win
1362
#1362
0 Frags +
PeteI really don't know where the negative mentality for elo came from? I guess it was because people want pugs to be for fun and not playing for the win, but having some dude just not try on your team isn't fun when the rest of you wanna win

The lessened throwing and greater incentive to play came with more stalemates and an increased amount of killed drafts. Also pugs usually get harder later into the evening, so depending on when you play it's very easy to obtain an inaccurate ELO.

[quote=Pete]I really don't know where the negative mentality for elo came from? I guess it was because people want pugs to be for fun and not playing for the win, but having some dude just not try on your team isn't fun when the rest of you wanna win[/quote]

The lessened throwing and greater incentive to play came with more stalemates and an increased amount of killed drafts. Also pugs usually get harder later into the evening, so depending on when you play it's very easy to obtain an inaccurate ELO.
1363
#1363
1 Frags +
Jarrett000Pete
The lessened throwing and greater incentive to play came with more stalemates and an increased amount of killed drafts. Also pugs usually get harder later into the evening, so depending on when you play it's very easy to obtain an inaccurate ELO.

I want to point out that in reality there are very few to no players that exclusively play in e.g the afternoon or late at night. Elo may be inaccurate at the start when only a few matches are played, but after a longer time period elo should accurately represent the skill level to a somewhat relevant degree.

There will obviously still be artefacts that have a high elo score and low skill, or a low elo score and high skill, but these players are going to be known individuals.

[quote=Jarrett000][quote=Pete][/quote]

The lessened throwing and greater incentive to play came with more stalemates and an increased amount of killed drafts. Also pugs usually get harder later into the evening, so depending on when you play it's very easy to obtain an inaccurate ELO.[/quote]

I want to point out that in reality there are very few to no players that exclusively play in e.g the afternoon or late at night. Elo may be inaccurate at the start when only a few matches are played, but after a longer time period elo should accurately represent the skill level to a somewhat relevant degree.

There will obviously still be artefacts that have a high elo score and low skill, or a low elo score and high skill, but these players are going to be known individuals.
1364
#1364
6 Frags +

The only downside to reintroducing elo that I can think off is further encouraging killing drafts in order to grab a better team. This happens all the time in EU pugchamp. 12/12 added, goes to ready up, A tier pug ends, draft gets killed, same people from A tier get picked. This occurs right now because of friend groups and circlejerks, elo would just further the issue.
Furthermore, if someone gets outpicked - they're gonna kill the pug in order to not lose elo.

"Why dont the 12 left over just add up again" - Not everyone from the A tier pug plays a second game. So roughly 9/12 would be added.

The only downside to reintroducing elo that I can think off is further encouraging killing drafts in order to grab a better team. This happens all the time in EU pugchamp. 12/12 added, goes to ready up, A tier pug ends, draft gets killed, same people from A tier get picked. This occurs right now because of friend groups and circlejerks, elo would just further the issue.
Furthermore, if someone gets outpicked - they're gonna kill the pug in order to not lose elo.

"Why dont the 12 left over just add up again" - Not everyone from the A tier pug plays a second game. So roughly 9/12 would be added.
1365
#1365
0 Frags +

@deca I work until 1am so I would exclusively play during the harder pug times

But @jarrett an elo system that has time to mature isn't going to be negatively influenced by the skill group people play in. If you're a 300 elo player winning in 1500 average elo games, your elo should sky rocket until it balances out.

@deca I work until 1am so I would exclusively play during the harder pug times

But @jarrett an elo system that has time to mature isn't going to be negatively influenced by the skill group people play in. If you're a 300 elo player winning in 1500 average elo games, your elo should sky rocket until it balances out.
1366
#1366
5 Frags +

please bring back elo

please bring back elo
1367
#1367
2 Frags +

na pugchamp mumble is down rn

na pugchamp mumble is down rn
1368
#1368
ChampGG
4 Frags +

Should be back up

Should be back up
1369
#1369
-2 Frags +

If the teams were chosen automatically then elo is a good value to balance the teams around. However, elo is useless in captain's pick and should not be introduced in pug champ. Why? @Shoosh explains it pretty well. Killing pugs will become more extreme than ever, which happens a lot nowadays too.

If the teams were chosen automatically then elo is a good value to balance the teams around. However, elo is useless in captain's pick and should not be introduced in pug champ. Why? @Shoosh explains it pretty well. Killing pugs will become more extreme than ever, which happens a lot nowadays too.
1370
#1370
8 Frags +
NeuTronasIf the teams were chosen automatically then elo is a good value to balance the teams around. However, elo is useless in captain's pick and should not be introduced in pug champ. Why? @Shoosh explains it pretty well. Killing pugs will become more extreme than ever, which happens a lot nowadays too.

easy solution : make it impossible to kill a pug by autopicking the highest elo player if the captain does not pick within the allocated time.

[quote=NeuTronas]If the teams were chosen automatically then elo is a good value to balance the teams around. However, elo is useless in captain's pick and should not be introduced in pug champ. Why? @Shoosh explains it pretty well. Killing pugs will become more extreme than ever, which happens a lot nowadays too.[/quote]

easy solution : make it impossible to kill a pug by autopicking the highest elo player if the captain does not pick within the allocated time.
1371
#1371
14 Frags +
ShooshFurthermore, if someone gets outpicked - they're gonna kill the pug in order to not lose elo.

Tbh I would rather have the pug killed than play a 5:0 on either side, so this is really not a downside imo.

Also, removing elo has not really reduced toxicity. Yes there is less toxic behaviour when loosing a game, but now (among other problems) there are more people who will just say "go next" and give up making the pug instantly cringe for anybody who wants to try, resulting in more toxic behaviour towards these individuals.

[quote=Shoosh]
Furthermore, if someone gets outpicked - they're gonna kill the pug in order to not lose elo. [/quote]
Tbh I would rather have the pug killed than play a 5:0 on either side, so this is really not a downside imo.

Also, removing elo has not really reduced toxicity. Yes there is less toxic behaviour when loosing a game, but now (among other problems) there are more people who will just say "go next" and give up making the pug instantly cringe for anybody who wants to try, resulting in more toxic behaviour towards these individuals.
1372
#1372
ChampGG
14 Frags +

Elo won't be coming back anytime soon. Couple of reasons: The way elo is implemented didn't account for people's skill on different classes. Depending on what time you play, you may have an inflated (or deflated?) elo that isn't representative of your actual skill (again, the way it is implemented isn't ideal) and the last reason, which is the actual real reason, is that elo calculations absolutely destroy the site and it is currently being held together with duct tape and tears. Bringing back elo is not an option until the underlying issues are fixed with the site and I can't tell you when that will be.....

Elo won't be coming back anytime soon. Couple of reasons: The way elo is implemented didn't account for people's skill on different classes. Depending on what time you play, you may have an inflated (or deflated?) elo that isn't representative of your actual skill (again, the way it is implemented isn't ideal) and the last reason, which is the actual real reason, is that elo calculations absolutely destroy the site and it is currently being held together with duct tape and tears. Bringing back elo is not an option until the underlying issues are fixed with the site and I can't tell you when that will be.....
1373
#1373
4 Frags +
erynnElo won't be coming back anytime soon. Couple of reasons: The way elo is implemented didn't account for people's skill on different classes. Depending on what time you play, you may have an inflated (or deflated?) elo that isn't representative of your actual skill (again, the way it is implemented isn't ideal) and the last reason, which is the actual real reason, is that elo calculations absolutely destroy the site and it is currently being held together with duct tape and tears. Bringing back elo is not an option until the underlying issues are fixed with the site and I can't tell you when that will be.....

If you're looking for more contributors, I'd be happy to help with the site (in general, not related to implementing elo).

Somewhat related, but has there been consideration given to open sourcing it again?

[quote=erynn]Elo won't be coming back anytime soon. Couple of reasons: The way elo is implemented didn't account for people's skill on different classes. Depending on what time you play, you may have an inflated (or deflated?) elo that isn't representative of your actual skill (again, the way it is implemented isn't ideal) and the last reason, which is the actual real reason, is that elo calculations absolutely destroy the site and it is currently being held together with duct tape and tears. Bringing back elo is not an option until the underlying issues are fixed with the site and I can't tell you when that will be.....[/quote]
If you're looking for more contributors, I'd be happy to help with the site (in general, not related to implementing elo).

Somewhat related, but has there been consideration given to open sourcing it again?
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