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91
#91
30 Frags +

csgo is boring because of holding corners
tf2 is boring because of choke point stalemates
quake is boring because of +back +rocket

wow that was easy. lets continue to oversimplify how these games are played.

csgo is boring because of holding corners
tf2 is boring because of choke point stalemates
quake is boring because of +back +rocket

wow that was easy. lets continue to oversimplify how these games are played.
92
#92
0 Frags +

Maybe csgo is boring. I'm a pretty boring person so its hard to tell.

Maybe csgo is boring. I'm a pretty boring person so its hard to tell.
93
#93
-4 Frags +

its not

its not
94
#94
-8 Frags +

.

.
95
#95
31 Frags +

Why are we arguing about why fps's are boring when MOBA's exist?

Why are we arguing about why fps's are boring when MOBA's exist?
96
#96
4 Frags +

I like TF2 because the combat is mainly close-to-mid range, and quite fast, but not so fast that everybody can one shot everybody. I like it because the movement, yet so subtle, is so important. You can win a dm fight sometimes by just out-moving some one. I dislike how in csgo you won't hit anything if you don't stop moving, and I dislike how long ranged most of the combat is. Lastly, I dislike quake because the only competitively viable gamemode is 1v1. I really love playing on a team, and I like the teamwork options that the different classes in TF2 bring to the table.

I don't think any of the games I said I dislike are bad or are boring because of those things, in fact, I love watching competitive CS, it can be so clutch and really exciting; I just hate playing it.

I like playing TF2 because it can turn on a dime at almost any moment. It does not have that unstoppable snowball effect that some other games do, such as counter-strike with it's economy, and mobas with their gold and experience. The only time a match of TF2 is truly un-winnable for a team is when the clock won't allow it, and with the American ruleset that doesn't happen often.

I agree with what #64 said. There are so few good fps games left, and none that are even remotely similar to TF2

I like TF2 because the combat is mainly close-to-mid range, and quite fast, but not so fast that everybody can one shot everybody. I like it because the movement, yet so subtle, is so important. You can win a dm fight sometimes by just out-moving some one. I dislike how in csgo you won't hit anything if you don't stop moving, and I dislike how long ranged most of the combat is. Lastly, I dislike quake because the only competitively viable gamemode is 1v1. I really love playing on a team, and I like the teamwork options that the different classes in TF2 bring to the table.

I don't think any of the games I said I dislike are bad or are boring because of those things, in fact, I love watching competitive CS, it can be so clutch and really exciting; I just hate playing it.

I like playing TF2 because it can turn on a dime at almost any moment. It does not have that unstoppable snowball effect that some other games do, such as counter-strike with it's economy, and mobas with their gold and experience. The only time a match of TF2 is truly un-winnable for a team is when the clock won't allow it, and with the American ruleset that doesn't happen often.

I agree with what #64 said. There are so few good fps games left, and none that are even remotely similar to TF2
97
#97
-8 Frags +
Scissors
So a game being easy is a good thing these days? Also, nice bait, but too tired to bite

you're implying CoD is easy and then asking why people would play it
if its easy you can make money playing a game you (presumably) like and get to go to LANs

you're still a prick for judging people for enjoying comp CoD, especially when tf2 is a game with a host of problems when you try to make it a comp shooter

[quote=Scissors]

So a game being easy is a good thing these days? Also, nice bait, but too tired to bite[/quote]
you're implying CoD is easy and then asking why people would play it
if its easy you can make money playing a game you (presumably) like and get to go to LANs

you're still a prick for judging people for enjoying comp CoD, especially when tf2 is a game with a host of problems when you try to make it a comp shooter
98
#98
23 Frags +
eeeScissors
So a game being easy is a good thing these days? Also, nice bait, but too tired to bite
you're implying CoD is easy and then asking why people would play it
if its easy you can make money playing a game you (presumably) like and get to go to LANs

you're still a prick for judging people for enjoying comp CoD, especially when tf2 is a game with a host of problems when you try to make it a comp shooter

The real reason CoD is bad is because the competitive CoD scene plays on Xbox which is limited to 30fps and uses controllers and auto-aim. Please understand this is like trying to hold a triathlon where all the athletes have to ride BigWheels and wear floaties while swimming.

[quote=eee][quote=Scissors]

So a game being easy is a good thing these days? Also, nice bait, but too tired to bite[/quote]
you're implying CoD is easy and then asking why people would play it
if its easy you can make money playing a game you (presumably) like and get to go to LANs

you're still a prick for judging people for enjoying comp CoD, especially when tf2 is a game with a host of problems when you try to make it a comp shooter[/quote]

The real reason CoD is bad is because the competitive CoD scene plays on Xbox which is limited to 30fps and uses controllers and auto-aim. Please understand this is like trying to hold a triathlon where all the athletes have to ride BigWheels and wear floaties while swimming.
99
#99
2 Frags +

Its hard to justify investing in TF2 when Arteezy and Sing Sing get more viewers at 2AM on their streams than i52 finals. Same for Summit

Its hard to justify investing in TF2 when Arteezy and Sing Sing get more viewers at 2AM on their streams than i52 finals. Same for Summit
100
#100
-22 Frags +

if you even put the slightest bit of thought in it csgo more exciting to watch than tf2.......
there are no 5+minute stalemates in cs like there are in tf2
there is no ubercharge in cs
there is no 10 minute stalemate timer in cs

in cs youre guaranteed to see action every 1 minute 45 seconds

HueyLewisThe difference in game-styles was pretty evident when I was spectating at ESEA lan. I'd look one direction to see TF2 and every player's monitor was always showing constant motion and jumping and shooting. Turn the other direction to CS:GO and every player's monitor was completely still 9 times out of 10. That's not even hyperbole, it's just what you see.

CS just isn't action packed in the slightest. It's a slow game and easy to see why a lot of people find it pretty dull. It's exciting in those small 10 second bursts where pretty much everything that decides a round happens though. It's super easy to follow as a spectator because there isn't much to follow.

maybe if you have a.d.d
i honestly think that the only people that find watching csgo dull are people that play tf2 and other twitch shooters like quake
i honestly dont see how someone can call csgo boring when in quake dueling people jsut +back and low scorelines are extremely common and ctf is just a huge shitfest where nothing happens for 5 years while people build up a stack and then die instantly and then you wait another 5 years for something else to happen

just look at the viewership

6.3k viewers for i52
20k viewers for quakecon (i think i dont really remember)
~400k viewers for esl one

if you even put the slightest bit of thought in it csgo more exciting to watch than tf2.......
there are no 5+minute stalemates in cs like there are in tf2
there is no ubercharge in cs
there is no 10 minute stalemate timer in cs

in cs youre guaranteed to see action every 1 minute 45 seconds

[quote=HueyLewis]The difference in game-styles was pretty evident when I was spectating at ESEA lan. I'd look one direction to see TF2 and every player's monitor was always showing constant motion and jumping and shooting. Turn the other direction to CS:GO and every player's monitor was completely still 9 times out of 10. That's not even hyperbole, it's just what you see.

CS just isn't action packed in the slightest. It's a slow game and easy to see why a lot of people find it pretty dull. It's exciting in those small 10 second bursts where pretty much everything that decides a round happens though. It's super easy to follow as a spectator because there isn't much to follow.[/quote]

maybe if you have a.d.d
i honestly think that the only people that find watching csgo dull are people that play tf2 and other twitch shooters like quake
i honestly dont see how someone can call csgo boring when in quake dueling people jsut +back and low scorelines are extremely common and ctf is just a huge shitfest where nothing happens for 5 years while people build up a stack and then die instantly and then you wait another 5 years for something else to happen

just look at the viewership

6.3k viewers for i52
20k viewers for quakecon (i think i dont really remember)
~400k viewers for esl one
101
#101
19 Frags +

wow its almost like people have opinions and different tastes about entertainment in video games wow haha

wow its almost like people have opinions and different tastes about entertainment in video games wow haha
102
#102
3 Frags +
eeeScissors
So a game being easy is a good thing these days? Also, nice bait, but too tired to bite
you're implying CoD is easy and then asking why people would play it
if its easy you can make money playing a game you (presumably) like and get to go to LANs

you're still a prick for judging people for enjoying comp CoD, especially when tf2 is a game with a host of problems when you try to make it a comp shooter

I never said such a thing

although I do think that CoD is objectively a shit-tier game, but people are allowed to enjoy stuff like that if they want to be fucking basic, not my problem.

[quote=eee][quote=Scissors]

So a game being easy is a good thing these days? Also, nice bait, but too tired to bite[/quote]
you're implying CoD is easy and then asking why people would play it
if its easy you can make money playing a game you (presumably) like and get to go to LANs

you're still a prick for judging people for enjoying comp CoD, especially when tf2 is a game with a host of problems when you try to make it a comp shooter[/quote]

I never said such a thing

although I do think that CoD is objectively a shit-tier game, but people are allowed to enjoy stuff like that if they want to be fucking basic, not my problem.
103
#103
0 Frags +
ScissorseeeScissors
So a game being easy is a good thing these days? Also, nice bait, but too tired to bite
you're implying CoD is easy and then asking why people would play it
if its easy you can make money playing a game you (presumably) like and get to go to LANs

you're still a prick for judging people for enjoying comp CoD, especially when tf2 is a game with a host of problems when you try to make it a comp shooter

I never said such a thing

although I do think that CoD is objectively a shit-tier game, but people are allowed to enjoy stuff like that if they want to be fucking basic, not my problem.

Ever played cod4 promod. 8) but yes the whole competitive cod community is okay on the point that the studio kill their older production to make people pay again for the same game, that's why cod4 will always stay the only true competitive cod.

[quote=Scissors][quote=eee][quote=Scissors]

So a game being easy is a good thing these days? Also, nice bait, but too tired to bite[/quote]
you're implying CoD is easy and then asking why people would play it
if its easy you can make money playing a game you (presumably) like and get to go to LANs

you're still a prick for judging people for enjoying comp CoD, especially when tf2 is a game with a host of problems when you try to make it a comp shooter[/quote]

I never said such a thing

although I do think that CoD is objectively a shit-tier game, but people are allowed to enjoy stuff like that if they want to be fucking basic, not my problem.[/quote]

Ever played cod4 promod. 8) but yes the whole competitive cod community is okay on the point that the studio kill their older production to make people pay again for the same game, that's why cod4 will always stay the only true competitive cod.
104
#104
7 Frags +
d_bjust look at the viewership

6.3k viewers for i52
20k viewers for quakecon (i think i dont really remember)
~400k viewers for esl one

I'm going to ignore all your other points which are just conveniently over-simplifying negatives about other games, but I'd like to point out that viewership doesn't really mean much considering the amount of marketing that goes into certain e-sports these days.
Hell, I'll go one step further and say that player counts don't mean as much as people like to think either; other than the fact that people are playing the game. Player counts don't mean the game is good, well balanced or interesting, or that people would stick with it if another game was marketed better. Of course, this is not to say well-marketed games have no merits.

[quote=d_b]just look at the viewership

6.3k viewers for i52
20k viewers for quakecon (i think i dont really remember)
~400k viewers for esl one[/quote]

I'm going to ignore all your other points which are just conveniently over-simplifying negatives about other games, but I'd like to point out that viewership doesn't really mean much considering the amount of marketing that goes into certain e-sports these days.
Hell, I'll go one step further and say that player counts don't mean as much as people like to think either; other than the fact that people are playing the game. Player counts don't mean the game is good, well balanced or interesting, or that people would stick with it if another game was marketed better. Of course, this is not to say well-marketed games have no merits.
105
#105
-19 Frags +

viewership is the only objective measure of dullness and boringness and excitingness how exciting/boring a game is.........

viewership is the only objective measure of[s] dullness and boringness and excitingness[/s] how exciting/boring a game is.........
106
#106
5 Frags +
d_bviewership is the only objective measure of dullness and boringness and excitingness how exciting/boring a game is.........

tf2 and quake are infinitely dull and boring and csgo is exciting?

[quote=d_b]viewership is the only objective measure of[s] dullness and boringness and excitingness[/s] how exciting/boring a game is.........[/quote]
tf2 and quake are infinitely dull and boring and csgo is exciting?
107
#107
38 Frags +

10/10 discussion gang

10/10 discussion gang
108
#108
0 Frags +
Saltysally1d_bviewership is the only objective measure of dullness and boringness and excitingness how exciting/boring a game is.........tf2 and quake are infinitely dull and boring and csgo is exciting?

tf2 and quake combined are less popular than csgo

[quote=Saltysally1][quote=d_b]viewership is the only objective measure of[s] dullness and boringness and excitingness[/s] how exciting/boring a game is.........[/quote]
tf2 and quake are infinitely dull and boring and csgo is exciting?[/quote]

tf2 and quake combined are less popular than csgo
109
#109
-3 Frags +

not saying thats a good thing but its definitely true

not saying thats a good thing but its definitely true
110
#110
33 Frags +
d_b6.3k viewers for i52
20k viewers for quakecon (i think i dont really remember)
~400k viewers for esl one

1.2 million viewers for the world darts championship

darts confirmed more exciting than any FPS

[quote=d_b]
6.3k viewers for i52
20k viewers for quakecon (i think i dont really remember)
~400k viewers for esl one[/quote]

1.2 million viewers for the world darts championship

darts confirmed more exciting than any FPS
111
#111
-4 Frags +

18.5 million viewers for the world series of snooker so snooker is an objectively more popular (and therefore probably more exciting to more people) bar game

18.5 million viewers for the world series of snooker so snooker is an objectively more popular (and therefore probably more exciting to more people) bar game
112
#112
12 Frags +
SoapIts hard to justify investing in TF2 when Arteezy and Sing Sing get more viewers at 2AM on their streams than i52 finals. Same for Summit

It's easy to justify putting so much time and effort into TF2 because it's so fucking fun to play and I have met some of the best people in this game.

I don't care about winning money, prizes or getting viewers, if it really bothers you how small TF2's exposure is, try and do something about it. I hear CanFo telling people about how he has the contacts for Dreamhack for a TF2 event but doesn't know if it's worth it. I see Huhy organising LAN's and making video content. I see people like Dashner, Arie, David and many more improving casts with their amazing technical knowledge and people like Nymthae and Snowie continuing to organise summer i-series. Can't say I seen one of these people complain about TF2's size, rather they just get on with it and make the scene better.

When I started in this scene, England vs Sweden Nations Cup Semi-Final got over 1000 viewers and broke comp TF2 viewership record and this was from SourceTV if my memory serves me correctly. Granted such a game now will probably only get half the viewers but you can see how far this game has come in terms of viewership through a lot of community effort.

Simply put though (not aimed at you Soap) if you care so much about TF2 being taken seriously, especially if you're European then you should have signed up to ESL and ESEA Europe and endured the shit seasons and kept playing so they may eventually improve it. That's the least you could have done, now we have virtually zero chance, not that I am that bothered since I quit both leagues after one season as they were both just not fun and that is more important to me than money, sponsors and viewers.

[quote=Soap]Its hard to justify investing in TF2 when Arteezy and Sing Sing get more viewers at 2AM on their streams than i52 finals. Same for Summit[/quote]

It's easy to justify putting so much time and effort into TF2 because it's so fucking fun to play and I have met some of the best people in this game.

I don't care about winning money, prizes or getting viewers, if it really bothers you how small TF2's exposure is, try and do something about it. I hear CanFo telling people about how he has the contacts for Dreamhack for a TF2 event but doesn't know if it's worth it. I see Huhy organising LAN's and making video content. I see people like Dashner, Arie, David and many more improving casts with their amazing technical knowledge and people like Nymthae and Snowie continuing to organise summer i-series. Can't say I seen one of these people complain about TF2's size, rather they just get on with it and make the scene better.

When I started in this scene, England vs Sweden Nations Cup Semi-Final got over 1000 viewers and broke comp TF2 viewership record and this was from SourceTV if my memory serves me correctly. Granted such a game now will probably only get half the viewers but you can see how far this game has come in terms of viewership through a lot of community effort.

Simply put though (not aimed at you Soap) if you care so much about TF2 being taken seriously, especially if you're European then you should have signed up to ESL and ESEA Europe and endured the shit seasons and kept playing so they may eventually improve it. That's the least you could have done, now we have virtually zero chance, not that I am that bothered since I quit both leagues after one season as they were both just not fun and that is more important to me than money, sponsors and viewers.
113
#113
-2 Frags +

i dont know about you but rolling in that 10 million dollar prize pool sounds awesome

i dont know about you but rolling in that 10 million dollar prize pool sounds awesome
114
#114
5 Frags +
omzi dont know about you but rolling in that 10 million dollar prize pool sounds awesome

You probably didn't install TF2 for that 10 million dollar prize pool, and the reasons you played and enjoyed the game remain the reasons so many other players do.

[quote=omz]i dont know about you but rolling in that 10 million dollar prize pool sounds awesome[/quote]

You probably didn't install TF2 for that 10 million dollar prize pool, and the reasons you played and enjoyed the game remain the reasons so many other players do.
115
#115
11 Frags +
d_b18.5 million viewers for the world series of snooker so snooker is an objectively more popular (and therefore probably more exciting to more people) bar game

u still not realizing the circular reasoning in your argument

fact: game1 gets more viewers than game2
question: why does game1 get more viewers
hypothesis: game1 is more exciting
evidence for hypothesis: game1 has more viewers
conclusion: game1 gets more viewers because game1 has more viewers

you're also conflating how exciting people find a particular game vs how inherently exciting the particular mechanics and rules of a certain game are

obviously if people play a particular game and are socially invested in its community and have emotional investment in outcomes of the matches, they will derive more excitement from that game than others. doesn't make the game inherently more exciting (see: inexplicable popularity of cricket)

[quote=d_b]18.5 million viewers for the world series of snooker so snooker is an objectively more popular (and therefore probably more exciting to more people) bar game[/quote]

u still not realizing the circular reasoning in your argument

fact: game1 gets more viewers than game2
question: why does game1 get more viewers
hypothesis: game1 is more exciting
evidence for hypothesis: game1 has more viewers
conclusion: game1 gets more viewers because game1 has more viewers

you're also conflating how exciting people find a particular game vs how inherently exciting the particular mechanics and rules of a certain game are

obviously if people play a particular game and are socially invested in its community and have emotional investment in outcomes of the matches, they will derive more excitement from that game than others. doesn't make the game inherently more exciting (see: inexplicable popularity of cricket)
116
#116
-8 Frags +

http://theflyingmuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/tqnl5vl.jpg

[img]http://theflyingmuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/tqnl5vl.jpg[/img]
117
#117
0 Frags +
KapowwCsgo is pretty clear and friendly from a spectator's point of view.

I remember when alec said that his family was watching tftv stream his match and it was just random people doing random shit and running around.

my brothers were there to sort of explain it to my parents but they never did 6s so ya everyone was confused

[quote=Kapoww]Csgo is pretty clear and friendly from a spectator's point of view.

I remember when alec said that his family was watching tftv stream his match and it was just random people doing random shit and running around.[/quote]

my brothers were there to sort of explain it to my parents but they never did 6s so ya everyone was confused
118
#118
10 Frags +

This conversation is great and all but...who's leaving

This conversation is great and all but...who's leaving
119
#119
-10 Frags +
ukmd_b18.5 million viewers for the world series of snooker so snooker is an objectively more popular (and therefore probably more exciting to more people) bar game
u still not realizing the circular reasoning in your argument

fact: game1 gets more viewers than game2
question: why does game1 get more viewers
hypothesis: game1 is more exciting
evidence for hypothesis: game1 has more viewers
conclusion: game1 gets more viewers because game1 has more viewers

you're also conflating how exciting people find a particular game vs how inherently exciting the particular mechanics and rules of a certain game are

obviously if people play a particular game and are socially invested in its community and have emotional investment in outcomes of the matches, they will derive more excitement from that game than others. doesn't make the game inherently more exciting (see: inexplicable popularity of cricket)

is there a better objective metric for how exciting a game is other than viewership y/n

[quote=ukm][quote=d_b]18.5 million viewers for the world series of snooker so snooker is an objectively more popular (and therefore probably more exciting to more people) bar game[/quote]

u still not realizing the circular reasoning in your argument

fact: game1 gets more viewers than game2
question: why does game1 get more viewers
hypothesis: game1 is more exciting
evidence for hypothesis: game1 has more viewers
conclusion: game1 gets more viewers because game1 has more viewers

you're also conflating how exciting people find a particular game vs how inherently exciting the particular mechanics and rules of a certain game are

obviously if people play a particular game and are socially invested in its community and have emotional investment in outcomes of the matches, they will derive more excitement from that game than others. doesn't make the game inherently more exciting (see: inexplicable popularity of cricket)[/quote]
is there a better objective metric for how exciting a game is other than viewership y/n
120
#120
1 Frags +

I don't think there's an objective way to measure an emotion or feeling that is felt by individual human beings. Sorry bud. All the viewer counts "prove" I guess is that more people find excitement in watching CSGO or Dota over TF2. Doesn't really objectively make them more "exciting" to watch because "excitement" is more or less exclusively subjective. I enjoy watching both TF2 and Dota, they are both exciting games for me to watch, and I don't really have a preference for either, but I don't really enjoy watching CS. It's all preference man.

Anyways this is probably one of the worst dereails of a thread that was already bad that I've ever seen on this forum. Find something less dumb to argue about.

I don't think there's an objective way to measure an emotion or feeling that is felt by individual human beings. Sorry bud. All the viewer counts "prove" I guess is that more people find excitement in watching CSGO or Dota over TF2. Doesn't really objectively make them more "exciting" to watch because "excitement" is more or less exclusively subjective. I enjoy watching both TF2 and Dota, they are both exciting games for me to watch, and I don't really have a preference for either, but I don't really enjoy watching CS. It's all preference man.

Anyways this is probably one of the worst dereails of a thread that was already bad that I've ever seen on this forum. Find something less dumb to argue about.
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