i am the hero

edit: i'm sorry i couldn't contain myself. i am actually ashamed

Well, possimple, I am so glad that you asked. Since I am a giant tiny nerd, I refuse to use anything but the Classic, which in turn makes me feel gimped, useless and—as aformentioned—exceedingly nerdy. This leads me to ponder things like reinstalling TFC, the possible future of the Classic in comp TF2, and what it would take to get it there. Because—if you havent gotten it yet, I am a huge nerd—this has further lead me to concieivng and posting possible Classic changes here: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3245759

Somewhere, there must be someone from Valve reading something. On the off chance that something is a TF2 forum and threads about their latest work, I figured maybe it might help.

What do ya think? Feel free to post and bump that thread.

its missng the key

is it bad that i think that instead of this stupid rampup thing, the damage should be based on how long you charge the sticky

classic is the most fun i've ever had with sniper. a minor buff or two and it will be perfect (c u in 3 years). i wonder if they are gonna like try to nerf things down to demo's level. heavy doesn't seem significantly weaker so i doubt it. imagine a (fair) nerf to soldier and scout. what a world that'd be

A lot of people posting here have been suggesting that having any sort of promod would "kill the game," presumably because they believe it would produce too great a divide between pub play and competitive play. I know my opinion isn't particularly important, but I disagree with this: using a mod (such as tftrue) to remove the sticky ramp-up would not be significantly different from what we as a community have already done to the game. For instance:

1) Class limits - we're so used to this that it's easy to forget how shocking this is to a pub player unfamiliar with 6v6. 6v6 immediately strikes a pub player as strangely empty, as they're used to 12v12. Add on top of that telling them that they can no longer main their favorite class (if it's spy, pyro, sniper, etc.) and you've already setup a huge divide.

2) Whitelists - now you've not only told someone they can't play their favorite class, but they can't use their favorite items. A large number of people would be very upset that they can no longer use gunslinger or loch-n-load. Whitelists aren't mods, but they are modifications required on the part of server owners that are rarely seen on pub servers.

3) Custom maps - now snakewater, process, etc. have been accepted as official maps, but for a long time they were seen almost exclusively in competitive tf2. And now we have even newer maps, like metaworks and sunshine. New players will be confused at the very least, and a good deal of them will be upset - they'll wonder why we can't we play dustbowl or 2fort like they usually spend most of their game time on. Further, this is also a 3rd party file that both server owners and players are responsible for downloading and installing, like a mod would be.

4) Server variables - remember, to even get on the valve quickplay list your server has to have random crits turned on. We turn off random crits, damage spread, weapon spread, and a bunch of other modifications. I fail to see how just because valve happened to provide a built-in way to modify the rules of the game, this is essentially any different from changing a server variable using a mod like tftrue.

Let's be honest with ourselves - what will be more off-putting to a pub player trying out 6v6 for the first time: being told they have to play on a strange map with a class they don't usually play and weapons they don't like, or simply reverting the sticky damage back to what the vast majority of players, both pub and competitive, are used to already?

But a promod would not only further the stereotype that 6s players are shitlords that can't adapt and are completely attached to our own little world, but later down the road when this nerf (and any other changes that may come up) fade from people's memories then any new player coming into 6s will have to relearn classes because what they have experienced is so much different than what they've already played. Further increasing the gap between 6s and pubs would end up causing more problems than it solves, and as painful as adapting to this and any future changes may be it's better than the alternative.

we should make a kickstarter so that we can raise enough money to pay a few dudes to sit in an apartment for 2 years and make a game thats just like 6v6 tf2. They would playtest the game with high level players (except doowatnuh) in order to produce a game thats just like the one we love so much but faster, more exciting, and with better hit-reg. we could call it FAST FORTRESS: ARENA or something to make it seem super e-sports and shit.

wait a minute thats completely unrealistic nevermind :<

Imagine a world where someone starts playing TF2, stickies do barely any damage in pubs and he's gotten accustomed to it. He then hears about a competitive side of the game he's grown so fond of only to realize that in this sick twisted world stickies reign supreme and dishing out almost double the damage he's been playing against since he first started TF2.

Idk, I think that's a little more startling than "you can't use soda popper sry"

Difference is all those are implemented by Valve. On top of that, currently all weapons fundamentally work the same across all game modes, a soda popper will let you jump loads in a pub, in 6v6 and in highlander. This would be an external mod that makes the sticky launcher work fundamentally different in pubs to 6v6 and highlander.

That's funny, this was in a tightrope update and people on this forum said that it was a terrible Nerf.

i think some people have changed their opinions after seeing just how big of a difference stickies make when they get changed.

One of the best ideas I've seen floating around is add the sticky charge time to the ramp up timer. That way, long range sticky snipes still do full damage, and by the time they get to the target mid range stickies will probably reach full damage as well. Close quarters combat as demo will still be horrible, but that is something that can be compensated for by changing strategy more so than the current state of demo.

Be careful! Any buff to the pipe launcher is a buff to the targe :D

i think that jump power relies on sticky damage so less self damage means you jumps wouldn't go as far i believe, not sure though. I don't seem to juggle anything with stickies at the current rate of damage so that's what i base it on.

I go to Germany for 3 fucking weeks and Valve ruins the sticky launcher.

Nerdy theory crafting incoming-

I remember way way back to starting this game, my instinctual thought with sticky bombs was that the longer I charged the shot, the more damage it would do. However, I quickly learned that it actually just made them go further. But now, the hot question is why doesn't it work that way? Why wouldn't ramp up start at your mouse click? I understand the sticky charge would ideally just be a single mechanic (distance) but would ramp-up on mouse click be too imba?

Ramp-up on click would continue to lessen overall spam since you would still have to wait for a charge time, and sticky traps would be unaffected since you would still just leave them out to dry. (Assuming ramp-up continues after launching the sticky.) But overall would give the individual more feel for how much damage their newly fired sticky will do. This would mean that Demoman running away from you backwards looking at the ground is charging his shot, and you have time to attack him before he gets his full damage OR he continues to m1 m2 and does the lessened damage but will potentially juggle you.

This would also readily apply to Heavy's spin-up time. As it is now (from my understanding, please correct if I am wrong) if you are currently spun-up you wouldn't begin either of your ramp-ups, accuracy/damage, until you begin to fire. However, if you think of the Heavy's spin-up in the same sense as the Demoman's sticky charge, the Heavy should ideally begin his ramp-up even if during his idle spin-up time. A heavy walking around spun-up is slow, immobile, and usually loud; there is little reason for him NOT to get his ramp-up during this time. If you jump a spun-up Heavy you will die. If you get to him before that time and he has to start fire when he sees you that is a fair trade and you, as someone attacking the Heavy, have 1 second to either kill him, run, or be shredded after his full ramp-up time.

tldr; there are so many ideas in this thread alone that would have made for better, more balanced nerfs than what we were delivered. Thanks, Valve.

If you'd also get less force from it, it would break demo jumping (unless it would work like the liberty launcher ofcourse), also point blank stickies don't do 20 damage even now it is nerfed.

Mids as scout are weird. im used to getting spammed by a demo and having to retreat. the 19 damage stickies dont really scare me anymore i can just do whatever i please :D

And that right there is the point of this thread

idk about you guys but the stickybomb carpet strat is amazin

|* * * | <- wall
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|* * x |
| you_|

more territory control than hydro

Why would you even question installing TFC?!?! Just do it - it's still fun as hell even in 4v4 format. Or just go to drippy's 2fort server (or whatever it's called) and pop some heads.

I wonder how many more days I need to wait before flame apologizes to me for being a fucking retard in this thread

jesus mustard please

LOL

hurt_feelings

are you actually 9

you should take a deep breath or ten...you are going to give yourself an aneurysm

i think ur too passionate about the game

I really like the idea of putting an emphasis on the charging mechnaic.
It makes sense that uncharged stickies/close range stickies deal less damage while mid-ish-long range deal decent damage.

Somewhat punishes "brain-less" while rewarding more charging and precision.

O flower of Scotland
When will we see your like again
That fought and died for
Your wee bit cap and cart
And stood against him
Proud Redmond's army
And sent them homeward
All blown apart

The pills are spammed now
And autumn leaves lie thick and still
O'er spire o'Badlands
Where you would hit air pills
And stood against him
Proud Redmond's army
And sent them homeward
Tae think again

Those days are passed now
And in the past they must remain
For stickies are crap now
And though we might complain
We'll get destroyed by
Proud Redmond's heavy
Because our stickies
Only hit for 19