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new dm servers
posted in Projects
91
#91
1 Frags +
SpaceGhostsCoffeepelthttps://i.postimg.cc/J0wcm1jy/2rsdll.jpgbadlands in DM is just as bad as gully if not worse imo

badlands and badwater are not the same map
badwater's first point is lowkey very underrated as a dm zone
thank you for your attention

[quote=SpaceGhostsCoffee][quote=pelt][img]https://i.postimg.cc/J0wcm1jy/2rsdll.jpg[/img][/quote]
badlands in DM is just as bad as gully if not worse imo[/quote]
badlands and badwater are not the same map
bad[i]water[/i]'s first point is lowkey very underrated as a dm zone
thank you for your attention
92
#92
Spaceship Servers
-15 Frags +

meme spoon unbanned along with other nonsense on DM (https://whitelist.tf/12583)
dm 4 server (steam://connect/dm.sappho.io:28415) updated to be all class and have a bunch more maps than the normal servers. have fun highlander players
updated gullywash to f7 and process to f11 (will put cfgs in soap dms repo as well)
most dm maps should have sky_well_01 as their skybox (you don't have to download anything), this is for branding purposes (easy to tell apart from other servers on streams etc)
sorry that servers were broken yesterday, was an issue with an anti DoS plugin i'm writting from scratch
i've added a donator role on servers, donate 5 dollars or more once and give me your steamid on the discord (https://discord.gg/Dn4wRu3) and i'll give it to ya. it's purple. thank you to everyone whos donated so far.

i'm *considering* (I HAVE NOT IMPLEMENTED THIS YET) adding reserved slots for donators, and having it be so that the DM servers have 10 slots, where normal people get 8 of them, and donators get 2. nobody would be kicked, the server would just be 10/8 with 2 donators or 9/8 with 1 donator. this would use a modified version of the reserved slots plugin so that we'd avoid issues with steam's autoretry feature bugging and people directly connecting not getting the "server is full message". i'm looking for community feedback on this (and any other changes frankly), so let me know. you can also join the discord as mentioned earlier and that's probably a better way to directly yell feedback to me.

have fun

meme spoon unbanned along with other nonsense on DM (https://whitelist.tf/12583)
dm 4 server (steam://connect/dm.sappho.io:28415) updated to be all class and have a bunch more maps than the normal servers. have fun highlander players
updated gullywash to f7 and process to f11 (will put cfgs in soap dms repo as well)
most dm maps should have sky_well_01 as their skybox (you don't have to download anything), this is for branding purposes (easy to tell apart from other servers on streams etc)
sorry that servers were broken yesterday, was an issue with an anti DoS plugin i'm writting from scratch
i've added a donator role on servers, donate 5 dollars or more once and give me your steamid on the discord (https://discord.gg/Dn4wRu3) and i'll give it to ya. it's purple. thank you to everyone whos donated so far.

i'm *considering* (I HAVE NOT IMPLEMENTED THIS YET) adding reserved slots for donators, and having it be so that the DM servers have 10 slots, where normal people get 8 of them, and donators get 2. nobody would be kicked, the server would just be 10/8 with 2 donators or 9/8 with 1 donator. this would use a modified version of the reserved slots plugin so that we'd avoid issues with steam's autoretry feature bugging and people directly connecting not getting the "server is full message". i'm looking for community feedback on this (and any other changes frankly), so let me know. you can also join the discord as mentioned earlier and that's probably a better way to directly yell feedback to me.

have fun
93
#93
11 Frags +

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKb62aVBwt4

this is all your fault

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKb62aVBwt4

this is all your fault
94
#94
3 Frags +

Maybe the #4 server should be changed to be like the rest because I never see anyone playing on it

Maybe the #4 server should be changed to be like the rest because I never see anyone playing on it
95
#95
Spaceship Servers
9 Frags +

yeah after listening to ppl who play more dm than i do, and playing with it myself for a bit, im rebanning spoon and mangler. the spoon is an ape weapon and while hilarious, it encourages complete brainless behavior and that aint fun in dm. i also only unbanned the mangler because i thought it was unbanned globally, which it's not. that's what happens when you havent rly played since esea s30 lol. new whitelist is 12587, have fun, thx for the feedback

yeah after listening to ppl who play more dm than i do, and playing with it myself for a bit, im rebanning spoon and mangler. the spoon is an ape weapon and while hilarious, it encourages complete brainless behavior and that aint fun in dm. i also only unbanned the mangler because i thought it was unbanned globally, which it's not. that's what happens when you havent rly played since esea s30 lol. new whitelist is 12587, have fun, thx for the feedback
96
#96
1 Frags +

Just cuz im dumb and haven't read the entire thread (but assume it's been asked before) why are maps like freight and turbine being ran? Those maps haven't been played competitively since like 2009

Just cuz im dumb and haven't read the entire thread (but assume it's been asked before) why are maps like freight and turbine being ran? Those maps haven't been played competitively since like 2009
97
#97
8 Frags +

Just because a map isn't currently being played doesn't mean it can't provide a fun and useful place to practice dm. They aren't perfect but freight and turbine are two of my favorite dm maps.

Just because a map isn't currently being played doesn't mean it can't provide a fun and useful place to practice dm. They aren't perfect but freight and turbine are two of my favorite dm maps.
98
#98
trends.tf
11 Frags +

OK, here's my collected list of grievancessuggestions for DM. I think DM is like 70% of being perfect. I don't know how difficult these are to implement from a technical PoV. Disclaimer: I play open scout.

  • It's hard to seed a server because you get kicked after 1 minute of inactivity. That's fine when the server is full, but when it's empty you can't even idle for a bit while you wait for another dude. You should only be disconnected from inactivity when there are more than (say) 4 players in the server.
  • 2v1s and 3v2s are not very balanced. Especially in a 2v1, it's very easy to have a terrible time if the other players don't go easy on you. Being on the losing end for an extended period of time is a great way to get players to leave. A small buff (like overheal) for the smaller team would help balance things.
  • There's no swapping when the teams have odd numbers of players. The team with more players is going to do better. Being stuck on the losing team for a long time sucks. Players should be swapped around so they don't have to be on the losing team for too long.
  • It would be great if there was an ability to offer to swap teams or classes. Sometimes you want to practice a class that's full on your team but has open slots on the enemy team, and you can't join the other team because you don't have more players.
  • Sometimes you don't get healed even if you did 100+ damage to a player. Not sure what's going on here, but it sucks when you take a 1v1, your teammate finishes off the other player, and you're stuck on 20 hp.
  • It takes a really long time to regen out of fights. In real games, sometimes the best decision is to disengage. Sometimes you fight but don't get regen'd. Whatever the case, it's easy to have to wait 10-15s just to regen up to fighting strength. I'm too spiteful to killbind.
  • The spawns are terrible. Sometimes you respawn on top of other people. Sometimes you spawn on top of someone's rocket. Sometimes you spawn behind someone. Disabling spawns within a certain radius of other players would go a long way.
  • People above are complaining about map variety, and I agree. There are not very many maps in the pool, and it can get stale if you play DM every day. I know the "variety maps" server doesn't get a lot of players, but IMO that's mainly because it's #4. People basically never rtv or nominate on regular servers, so I think it's OK to add some more maps to the regular servers. I would love to see additional sixes maps being played, even if they were never (or only briefly) official. E.g. cardinal, propaganda.
  • Building off of that, I would love to see seconds and lasts be playable. A lot of playing DM is about getting familiar with how to move around the maps. It's not all about the mids.

Please let me know how I can help out and make some of these happen. I really appreciate the DM servers; I think they've helped me become a lot less bad.

OK, here's my collected list of [s]grievances[/s]suggestions for DM. I think DM is like 70% of being perfect. I don't know how difficult these are to implement from a technical PoV. Disclaimer: I play open scout.

[list]
[*] It's hard to seed a server because you get kicked after 1 minute of inactivity. That's fine when the server is full, but when it's empty you can't even idle for a bit while you wait for another dude. You should only be disconnected from inactivity when there are more than (say) 4 players in the server.
[*] 2v1s and 3v2s are not very balanced. Especially in a 2v1, it's very easy to have a terrible time if the other players don't go easy on you. Being on the losing end for an extended period of time is a great way to get players to leave. A small buff (like overheal) for the smaller team would help balance things.
[*] There's no swapping when the teams have odd numbers of players. The team with more players is going to do better. Being stuck on the losing team for a long time sucks. Players should be swapped around so they don't have to be on the losing team for too long.
[*] It would be great if there was an ability to offer to swap teams or classes. Sometimes you want to practice a class that's full on your team but has open slots on the enemy team, and you can't join the other team because you don't have more players.
[*] Sometimes you don't get healed even if you did 100+ damage to a player. Not sure what's going on here, but it sucks when you take a 1v1, your teammate finishes off the other player, and you're stuck on 20 hp.
[*] It takes a really long time to regen out of fights. In real games, sometimes the best decision is to disengage. Sometimes you fight but don't get regen'd. Whatever the case, it's easy to have to wait 10-15s just to regen up to fighting strength. I'm too spiteful to killbind.
[*] The spawns are terrible. Sometimes you respawn on top of other people. Sometimes you spawn on top of someone's rocket. Sometimes you spawn behind someone. Disabling spawns within a certain radius of other players would go a long way.
[*] People above are complaining about map variety, and I agree. There are not very many maps in the pool, and it can get stale if you play DM every day. I know the "variety maps" server doesn't get a lot of players, but IMO that's mainly because it's #4. People basically never rtv or nominate on regular servers, so I think it's OK to add some more maps to the regular servers. I would love to see additional sixes maps being played, even if they were never (or only briefly) official. E.g. cardinal, propaganda.
[*] Building off of that, I would love to see seconds and lasts be playable. A lot of playing DM is about getting familiar with how to move around the maps. It's not all about the mids.
[/list]

Please let me know how I can help out and make some of these happen. I really appreciate the DM servers; I think they've helped me become a lot less bad.
99
#99
4 Frags +
Forty-BotOK, here's my collected list of grievancessuggestions for DM. I think DM is like 70% of being perfect. I don't know how difficult these are to implement from a technical PoV. Disclaimer: I play open scout.

  • People above are complaining about map variety, and I agree. There are not very many maps in the pool, and it can get stale if you play DM every day. I know the "variety maps" server doesn't get a lot of players, but IMO that's mainly because it's #4. People basically never rtv or nominate on regular servers, so I think it's OK to add some more maps to the regular servers. I would love to see additional sixes maps being played, even if they were never (or only briefly) official. E.g. cardinal, propaganda.
  • Building off of that, I would love to see seconds and lasts be playable. A lot of playing DM is about getting familiar with how to move around the maps. It's not all about the mids.

Please let me know how I can help out and make some of these happen. I really appreciate the DM servers; I think they've helped me become a lot less bad.

Can't this be fixed by having process last/second as well as the current mid (process as example) all be seperate maps? This will solve the stale maps, without needing to add more maps that are essentially never played competitively.

[quote=Forty-Bot]OK, here's my collected list of [s]grievances[/s]suggestions for DM. I think DM is like 70% of being perfect. I don't know how difficult these are to implement from a technical PoV. Disclaimer: I play open scout.

[list]

[*] People above are complaining about map variety, and I agree. There are not very many maps in the pool, and it can get stale if you play DM every day. I know the "variety maps" server doesn't get a lot of players, but IMO that's mainly because it's #4. People basically never rtv or nominate on regular servers, so I think it's OK to add some more maps to the regular servers. I would love to see additional sixes maps being played, even if they were never (or only briefly) official. E.g. cardinal, propaganda.
[*] Building off of that, I would love to see seconds and lasts be playable. A lot of playing DM is about getting familiar with how to move around the maps. It's not all about the mids.
[/list]

Please let me know how I can help out and make some of these happen. I really appreciate the DM servers; I think they've helped me become a lot less bad.[/quote]

Can't this be fixed by having process last/second as well as the current mid (process as example) all be seperate maps? This will solve the stale maps, without needing to add more maps that are essentially never played competitively.
100
#100
-1 Frags +
Forty-BotOK, here's my collected list of grievancessuggestions for DM. I think DM is like 70% of being perfect. I don't know how difficult these are to implement from a technical PoV. Disclaimer: I play open scout.
  • It's hard to seed a server because you get kicked after 1 minute of inactivity. That's fine when the server is full, but when it's empty you can't even idle for a bit while you wait for another dude. You should only be disconnected from inactivity when there are more than (say) 4 players in the server.
  • 2v1s and 3v2s are not very balanced. Especially in a 2v1, it's very easy to have a terrible time if the other players don't go easy on you. Being on the losing end for an extended period of time is a great way to get players to leave. A small buff (like overheal) for the smaller team would help balance things.
  • There's no swapping when the teams have odd numbers of players. The team with more players is going to do better. Being stuck on the losing team for a long time sucks. Players should be swapped around so
  • It would be great if there was an ability to offer to swap teams or classes. Sometimes you want to practice a class that's full on your team but has open slots on the enemy team, and you can't join the other team because you don't have more players.
  • Sometimes you don't get healed even if you did 100+ damage to a player. Not sure what's going on here, but it sucks when you take a 1v1, your teammate finishes off the other player, and you're stuck on 20 hp.
  • It takes a really long time to regen out of fights. In real games, sometimes the best decision is to disengage. Sometimes you fight but don't get regen'd. Whatever the case, it's easy to have to wait 10-15s just to regen up to fighting strength. I'm too spiteful to killbind.
  • The spawns are terrible. Sometimes you respawn on top of other people. Sometimes you spawn on top of someone's rocket. Sometimes you spawn behind someone. Disabling spawns within a certain radius of other players would go a long way.
  • People above are complaining about map variety, and I agree. There are not very many maps in the pool, and it can get stale if you play DM every day. I know the "variety maps" server doesn't get a lot of players, but IMO that's mainly because it's #4. People basically never rtv or nominate on regular servers, so I think it's OK to add some more maps to the regular servers. I would love to see additional sixes maps being played, even if they were never (or only briefly) official. E.g. cardinal, propaganda.
  • Building off of that, I would love to see seconds and lasts be playable. A lot of playing DM is about getting familiar with how to move around the maps. It's not all about the mids.

Please let me know how I can help out and make some of these happen. I really appreciate the DM servers; I think they've helped me become a lot less bad.

would be awesome if you got back some of your ammo along with more hp if your teammate finishes off a guy you did damage too/you don't get the last hit in before they died (and u did damage)

[quote=Forty-Bot]OK, here's my collected list of [s]grievances[/s]suggestions for DM. I think DM is like 70% of being perfect. I don't know how difficult these are to implement from a technical PoV. Disclaimer: I play open scout.

[list]
[*] It's hard to seed a server because you get kicked after 1 minute of inactivity. That's fine when the server is full, but when it's empty you can't even idle for a bit while you wait for another dude. You should only be disconnected from inactivity when there are more than (say) 4 players in the server.
[*] 2v1s and 3v2s are not very balanced. Especially in a 2v1, it's very easy to have a terrible time if the other players don't go easy on you. Being on the losing end for an extended period of time is a great way to get players to leave. A small buff (like overheal) for the smaller team would help balance things.
[*] There's no swapping when the teams have odd numbers of players. The team with more players is going to do better. Being stuck on the losing team for a long time sucks. Players should be swapped around so
[*] It would be great if there was an ability to offer to swap teams or classes. Sometimes you want to practice a class that's full on your team but has open slots on the enemy team, and you can't join the other team because you don't have more players.
[*] Sometimes you don't get healed even if you did 100+ damage to a player. Not sure what's going on here, but it sucks when you take a 1v1, your teammate finishes off the other player, and you're stuck on 20 hp.
[*] It takes a really long time to regen out of fights. In real games, sometimes the best decision is to disengage. Sometimes you fight but don't get regen'd. Whatever the case, it's easy to have to wait 10-15s just to regen up to fighting strength. I'm too spiteful to killbind.
[*] The spawns are terrible. Sometimes you respawn on top of other people. Sometimes you spawn on top of someone's rocket. Sometimes you spawn behind someone. Disabling spawns within a certain radius of other players would go a long way.
[*] People above are complaining about map variety, and I agree. There are not very many maps in the pool, and it can get stale if you play DM every day. I know the "variety maps" server doesn't get a lot of players, but IMO that's mainly because it's #4. People basically never rtv or nominate on regular servers, so I think it's OK to add some more maps to the regular servers. I would love to see additional sixes maps being played, even if they were never (or only briefly) official. E.g. cardinal, propaganda.
[*] Building off of that, I would love to see seconds and lasts be playable. A lot of playing DM is about getting familiar with how to move around the maps. It's not all about the mids.
[/list]

Please let me know how I can help out and make some of these happen. I really appreciate the DM servers; I think they've helped me become a lot less bad.[/quote]
would be awesome if you got back some of your ammo along with more hp if your teammate finishes off a guy you did damage too/you don't get the last hit in before they died (and u did damage)
101
#101
Spaceship Servers
4 Frags +

Long Time No Update

DM servers now are... snowy themed. Turn on weather particles for a fun surprise...

Added gran and blands back, will likely be tweaking spawns because they arent ideal
Added sultry since it's in RGL pool

Taking any / all suggestions for more maps

> would be awesome if you got back some of your ammo along with more hp if your teammate finishes off a guy you did damage too/you don't get the last hit in before they died (and u did damage)

in the works

> Can't this be fixed by having process last/second as well as the current mid (process as example) all be seperate maps? This will solve the stale maps, without needing to add more maps that are essentially never played competitively.

this could happen but i dont know how much people would like it and id have to do a fair bit of plugin work

also, there is a variety maps dm server, dm 4 - nobody plays it. shrug emoji...?

> OK, here's my collected list of grievancessuggestions for DM. I think DM is like 70% of being perfect. I don't know how difficult these are to implement from a technical PoV. Disclaimer: I play open scout.

most of these are good suggestions and ill take a crack at implementing some, especially the afk timer which is dead simple

Anywho spaceship now has a patreon -> https://www.patreon.com/sapphonie

Server bills are still 84$ a month, thats a chunk of change that id prefer to spend on... something else, lol. So if you can, consider becoming a patreon, you get a cool chat color, and you make it so that i dont lose 80 dollars a month on tf2. which, to be clear, i am happy to keep doing into infinity, because spaceship is a fun tinker toy for me, and i enjoy giving back to the community that gave me opportunities that i wouldn't have otherwise (such as my current job), but also... losing money sucks, lol.

anywho, bye

Long Time No Update

DM servers now are... snowy themed. Turn on weather particles for a fun surprise...

Added gran and blands back, will likely be tweaking spawns because they arent ideal
Added sultry since it's in RGL pool

Taking any / all suggestions for more maps

> would be awesome if you got back some of your ammo along with more hp if your teammate finishes off a guy you did damage too/you don't get the last hit in before they died (and u did damage)

in the works

> Can't this be fixed by having process last/second as well as the current mid (process as example) all be seperate maps? This will solve the stale maps, without needing to add more maps that are essentially never played competitively.

this could happen but i dont know how much people would like it and id have to do a fair bit of plugin work

also, there is a variety maps dm server, dm 4 - nobody plays it. shrug emoji...?

> OK, here's my collected list of grievancessuggestions for DM. I think DM is like 70% of being perfect. I don't know how difficult these are to implement from a technical PoV. Disclaimer: I play open scout.

most of these are good suggestions and ill take a crack at implementing some, especially the afk timer which is dead simple

Anywho spaceship now has a patreon -> https://www.patreon.com/sapphonie

Server bills are still 84$ a month, thats a chunk of change that id prefer to spend on... something else, lol. So if you can, consider becoming a patreon, you get a cool chat color, and you make it so that i dont lose 80 dollars a month on tf2. which, to be clear, i am happy to keep doing into infinity, because spaceship is a fun tinker toy for me, and i enjoy giving back to the community that gave me opportunities that i wouldn't have otherwise (such as my current job), but also... losing money sucks, lol.

anywho, bye
102
#102
Spaceship Servers
2 Frags +
steph>

https://github.com/sapphonie/SOAP-TF2DM/pull/42

coming soon;

- draw 386x386x386 unit cube around spawn before spawning, find another spawn if there's enemy projectiles or enemy players found in it, avoids spawning players into dying immediately
- wait in spectate / death cam to spawn players instead of respawning -> sitting in spawn -> teleporting - prevents getting flashes of your actual spawn room before immediately getting teleported
- Soap will now require gamedata because of the above change - i would highly recommend installing Updater ( https://github.com/Teamkiller324/Updater/releases/latest ) so you dont have to fuck with it
- players are no longer targeted by sentries in dm [if people give a shit i'll put this behind a cvar]
- Soap will no longer waste processing power checking if a spawn is clipping into the world every time it attempts to spawn a player, instead it checks when loading the map and removes it from the valid spawn list then
- Soap now requires sourcemod 1.11 as 1.10 is end of life
[quote=steph]>[/quote]
https://github.com/sapphonie/SOAP-TF2DM/pull/42

coming soon;

[code]
- draw 386x386x386 unit cube around spawn before spawning, find another spawn if there's enemy projectiles or enemy players found in it, avoids spawning players into dying immediately
- wait in spectate / death cam to spawn players instead of respawning -> sitting in spawn -> teleporting - prevents getting flashes of your actual spawn room before immediately getting teleported
- Soap will now require gamedata because of the above change - i would highly recommend installing Updater ( https://github.com/Teamkiller324/Updater/releases/latest ) so you dont have to fuck with it
- players are no longer targeted by sentries in dm [if people give a shit i'll put this behind a cvar]
- Soap will no longer waste processing power checking if a spawn is clipping into the world every time it attempts to spawn a player, instead it checks when loading the map and removes it from the valid spawn list then
- Soap now requires sourcemod 1.11 as 1.10 is end of life
[/code]
103
#103
Spaceship Servers
2 Frags +

hello, beta soap has been deployed on dm server 3. please let me know if theres issues or bugs or if it's a positive improvement.

servers have also been as destuttered as much as i possibly can;

https://i.imgur.com/Sin3Wqm.png

thanks to this guide

hello, beta soap has been deployed on dm server 3. please let me know if theres issues or bugs or if it's a positive improvement.

servers have also been as destuttered as much as i possibly can;

[img]https://i.imgur.com/Sin3Wqm.png[/img]

thanks to [url=https://rigtorp.se/low-latency-guide/]this guide[/url]
104
#104
Spaceship Servers
2 Frags +

DM 4/5/6 are now available to play, with normal DM maps.

check https://sappho.io/spaceship to join em if youd like.

DM 4/5/6 are now available to play, with normal DM maps.

check https://sappho.io/spaceship to join em if youd like.
105
#105
18 Frags +

please remove granary from DM it's so bad

please remove granary from DM it's so bad
106
#106
-4 Frags +

please remove badlands too

please remove badlands too
107
#107
Spaceship Servers
3 Frags +
DivineATplease remove granary from DM it's so badJ0hNplease remove badlands too

done
also considering adding some new maps - already added warmtic, might whip up some spawns for ctf landfall, cp_sulfur (point a), cp_hardwood, idk what else, or if thesell happen, but we'll see

also might get around to adding barriers/forcefields a la minecraft world borders to prevent people from going and sitting in spawn rooms instead of playing the game, i dunno

edit: added cp_entropy as well, it's an up and coming map and looks good. let me know if it plays well. ta

[quote=DivineAT]please remove granary from DM it's so bad[/quote]
[quote=J0hN]please remove badlands too[/quote]
[url=https://github.com/Spaceship-Servers/gameserver-repository/commit/21626af6acb21a97dad6783f7e041e219b93ba9f]done[/url]
also considering adding some new maps - already added warmtic, might whip up some spawns for ctf landfall, cp_sulfur (point a), cp_hardwood, idk what else, or if thesell happen, but we'll see

also might get around to adding barriers/forcefields a la minecraft world borders to prevent people from going and sitting in spawn rooms instead of playing the game, i dunno

edit: added cp_entropy as well, it's an up and coming map and looks good. let me know if it plays well. ta
108
#108
0 Frags +

having some spawn protection would be nice, so you dont just insta die when you get bad spawn rng and 4 people just shoot you, or when someone is just camping the spawn. It would have to wear out the moment you shoot or after a couple seconds me thinks.

having some spawn protection would be nice, so you dont just insta die when you get bad spawn rng and 4 people just shoot you, or when someone is just camping the spawn. It would have to wear out the moment you shoot or after a couple seconds me thinks.
109
#109
3 Frags +
stephalso might get around to adding barriers/forcefields a la minecraft world borders to prevent people from going and sitting in spawn rooms instead of playing the game, i dunno

sounds like a good idea imo, it happens rarely but it's happened a few times where 4 people join and sit around at last to troll and it was very annoying

[quote=steph]
also might get around to adding barriers/forcefields a la minecraft world borders to prevent people from going and sitting in spawn rooms instead of playing the game, i dunno [/quote]

sounds like a good idea imo, it happens rarely but it's happened a few times where 4 people join and sit around at last to troll and it was very annoying
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