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BTS 2020 LAN cancelled
posted in News
211
#211
1 Frags +

this whole situation is absolutely crazy in a surreal kinda way

this whole situation is absolutely crazy in a surreal kinda way
212
#212
eXtelevision
7 Frags +

gg wp better luck neXt time.

gg wp better luck neXt time.
213
#213
29 Frags +

Hey guys remember this thread

https://www.teamfortress.tv/51087/esports-arena-now-in-select-walmarts

You can just have an international lan at Walmart and then the EU players will get the true American experience and it'll probably be cheaper.

Hey guys remember this thread

https://www.teamfortress.tv/51087/esports-arena-now-in-select-walmarts

You can just have an international lan at Walmart and then the EU players will get the true American experience and it'll probably be cheaper.
214
#214
30 Frags +

if fingerinthebum_ couldn't do it then it's a lost cause

if fingerinthebum_ couldn't do it then it's a lost cause
215
#215
5 Frags +

https://twitter.com/consolee_/status/1199408130339360768

feel free to Discord DM me or TFTV message me if you dont have twitter but are still financially committing in some way :)
Console-#0420
https://www.teamfortress.tv/inbox/compose/Console-

https://twitter.com/consolee_/status/1199408130339360768

feel free to Discord DM me or TFTV message me if you dont have twitter but are still financially committing in some way :)
Console-#0420
https://www.teamfortress.tv/inbox/compose/Console-
216
#216
67 Frags +

I've been kinda going back and forth about how mad I should be about this. I've settled on pretty fucking mad.

The new team did everything they could to secure a venue, talked to multiple sites, at the end it would have been thousands of dollars for a setup that would probably not have been adequate for the players or a stream. (No one wants to be swapping computers every round with nowhere to setup, warmup, etc) .

But it all could have fucking been avoided. No one needed to pull any plug early in this process. Someone made a questionable admin decision and instead of taking community feedback and opening up a dialogue (this is possible without compromising either a potential "victim" or the banned user's privacy) they lost their cool and bailed.

And then defending sexual predators, making questionable decisions for talent.

But even after all that fuckery and dumb shit, no plug needed to be pulled. There were 6-7 people, all of whom have event running experience (many of them more than the original leaders) all of whom were willing to take over. A transition team could have been established, BTS could have been told that a personal matter came up with the head organizer but a competent and trusted replacement had been chosen and brought up to speed, and the whole FUCKING EVENT could have been saved. Or at least a better attempt at it.

It's not fucking hard. It's really not. Have a backup plan, be transparent, don't make decisions from an emotional state that affect others.

Maybe I'm desensitized because I work in high stress high impact conditions every day and sometimes I make the wrong decision and I have to deal with it. But for fucks sake, have some resiliency. You can't implode because of some criticism, you can't go on an emotional rollercoaster of depression because someone doesn't like your decision. If that's your response, don't be an admin. Administration is 90% making decisions no one else wants to, it's not a complicated job, but it's one where you will have people mad at you all the time. If you can't handle that, then don't open yourself up to it.

Maybe I'm overreacting, I'm not out any money because I'm not dumb and I got trip cancel insurance on my plane ticket. And it was money I was fortunate enough to have to spend anyway. But not everyone is in that boat and I'm super pissed that at no time did any of the original team seem to care about that.

Edit: I used scare quotes around victim not because I don't believe anyone. I don't know all the details about why the ban was handed out and I'm not making a statement about whether it was deserved or not. I more don't know if there was actually a victim or not.

I've been kinda going back and forth about how mad I should be about this. I've settled on pretty fucking mad.

The new team did everything they could to secure a venue, talked to multiple sites, at the end it would have been thousands of dollars for a setup that would probably not have been adequate for the players or a stream. (No one wants to be swapping computers every round with nowhere to setup, warmup, etc) .

But it all could have fucking been avoided. No one needed to pull any plug early in this process. Someone made a questionable admin decision and instead of taking community feedback and opening up a dialogue (this is possible without compromising either a potential "victim" or the banned user's privacy) they lost their cool and bailed.

And then defending sexual predators, making questionable decisions for talent.

But even after all that fuckery and dumb shit, no plug needed to be pulled. There were 6-7 people, all of whom have event running experience (many of them more than the original leaders) all of whom were willing to take over. A transition team could have been established, BTS could have been told that a personal matter came up with the head organizer but a competent and trusted replacement had been chosen and brought up to speed, and the whole FUCKING EVENT could have been saved. Or at least a better attempt at it.

It's not fucking hard. It's really not. Have a backup plan, be transparent, don't make decisions from an emotional state that affect others.

Maybe I'm desensitized because I work in high stress high impact conditions every day and sometimes I make the wrong decision and I have to deal with it. But for fucks sake, have some resiliency. You can't implode because of some criticism, you can't go on an emotional rollercoaster of depression because someone doesn't like your decision. If that's your response, don't be an admin. Administration is 90% making decisions no one else wants to, it's not a complicated job, but it's one where you will have people mad at you all the time. If you can't handle that, then don't open yourself up to it.

Maybe I'm overreacting, I'm not out any money because I'm not dumb and I got trip cancel insurance on my plane ticket. And it was money I was fortunate enough to have to spend anyway. But not everyone is in that boat and I'm super pissed that at no time did any of the original team seem to care about that.

Edit: I used scare quotes around victim not because I don't believe anyone. I don't know all the details about why the ban was handed out and I'm not making a statement about whether it was deserved or not. I more don't know if there was actually a victim or not.
217
#217
43 Frags +

I still don't know why I got banned

I still don't know why I got banned
218
#218
15 Frags +
alfaI still don't know why I got banned

clearly they just needed a reason to fuck up and kill the event, otherwise it'd be too easy

[quote=alfa]I still don't know why I got banned[/quote]
clearly they just needed a reason to fuck up and kill the event, otherwise it'd be too easy
219
#219
30 Frags +

What fucking sucks is that the morning of the cancellation we were going to have a meeting that weekend (had meetings every weekend to go over things), and we assumed that we would be discussing moving around staff positions. Then a few hours the cancellation comes out of nowhere. To this day, I don't know if it was one person's decision or if there were multiple people.

The folks that were trying to save the event in these last few weeks were taken by as much surprise about the cancellation as everyone else. Wasn't even a notice to the volunteers, or even an offer for them to take it over. It makes me wonder if there was so little faith in the event not happening without the three that removed themselves that they couldn't even let us decide if we wanted to just take it over. And now we are stuck with people that had spent god knows how much money, who may not be able to get it back, players and volunteers alike.

What also fucking sucks is that I couldn't even get crowdfunding off the ground before the cancellation, it required a lot of tournament info that I didn't have, and work that needed to be done by the tournament organizers first. From what I could have had access to would have been amazing. But there was no hope to launch to that scale it once we no longer had the ability to leverage with ticket sales and viewership, and BTS's connection.

What fucking sucks is that the morning of the cancellation we were going to have a meeting that weekend (had meetings every weekend to go over things), and we assumed that we would be discussing moving around staff positions. Then a few hours the cancellation comes out of nowhere. To this day, I don't know if it was one person's decision or if there were multiple people.

The folks that were trying to save the event in these last few weeks were taken by as much surprise about the cancellation as everyone else. Wasn't even a notice to the volunteers, or even an offer for them to take it over. It makes me wonder if there was so little faith in the event not happening without the three that removed themselves that they couldn't even let us decide if we wanted to just take it over. And now we are stuck with people that had spent god knows how much money, who may not be able to get it back, players and volunteers alike.

What also fucking sucks is that I couldn't even get crowdfunding off the ground before the cancellation, it required a lot of tournament info that I didn't have, and work that needed to be done by the tournament organizers first. From what I could have had access to would have been amazing. But there was no hope to launch to that scale it once we no longer had the ability to leverage with ticket sales and viewership, and BTS's connection.
220
#220
-7 Frags +
drshdwpuppetBut even after all that fuckery and dumb shit, no plug needed to be pulled. There were 6-7 people, all of whom have event running experience (many of them more than the original leaders) all of whom were willing to take over. A transition team could have been established, BTS could have been told that a personal matter came up with the head organizer but a competent and trusted replacement had been chosen and brought up to speed, and the whole FUCKING EVENT could have been saved. Or at least a better attempt at it.

sexual assault allegations from one production member against the lead production member was enough to kill the event. everything an established company of that size does with our ragtag band of volunteers is going to be to minimise risk, and as you can from Richard Lewis' articles the BTS brand has already been mentioned in connection a few times. couple that with the fact they were expecting to make a small loss and we're dropped just like that.

and at that point, there's next to 0 chance of reviving the event. only 2-3 months left to rearrange a venue for one specific weekend, which was already incredibly difficult to secure with double the time and way more flexibility. even if one was found and the stars aligned to let us use it, it would lead to way more work on our part and a worse end product anyway

personally, and probably controversially, im annoyed at the people who stepped in with good intentions but 0 organisation and still blinded by hopes of an LA lan, completely unaware of how impossible the lan is to salvage, and continued to get people's hopes up, only to 'cancel' again a few weeks later.

[quote=drshdwpuppet]But even after all that fuckery and dumb shit, no plug needed to be pulled. There were 6-7 people, all of whom have event running experience (many of them more than the original leaders) all of whom were willing to take over. A transition team could have been established, BTS could have been told that a personal matter came up with the head organizer but a competent and trusted replacement had been chosen and brought up to speed, and the whole FUCKING EVENT could have been saved. Or at least a better attempt at it.[/quote]

sexual assault allegations from one production member against the lead production member was enough to kill the event. everything an established company of that size does with our ragtag band of volunteers is going to be to minimise risk, and as you can from Richard Lewis' articles the BTS brand has already been mentioned in connection a few times. couple that with the fact they were expecting to make a small loss and we're dropped just like that.

and at that point, there's next to 0 chance of reviving the event. only 2-3 months left to rearrange a venue for one specific weekend, which was already incredibly difficult to secure with double the time and way more flexibility. even if one was found and the stars aligned to let us use it, it would lead to way more work on our part and a worse end product anyway

personally, and probably controversially, im annoyed at the people who stepped in with good intentions but 0 organisation and still blinded by hopes of an LA lan, completely unaware of how impossible the lan is to salvage, and continued to get people's hopes up, only to 'cancel' again a few weeks later.
221
#221
25 Frags +
gemmpersonally, and probably controversially, im annoyed at the people who stepped in with good intentions but 0 organisation and still blinded by hopes of an LA lan, completely unaware of how impossible the lan is to salvage, and continued to get people's hopes up, only to 'cancel' again a few weeks later.

I love you gemm but I have to disagree on this one. From the beginning the attempts at salvation from the rest of the team were not promised to be successful, everyone was transparent that this wasn't a promised thing. Nobody said it was a 100% chance, yes the possibility was slim and everything you say is true but there was an effort from people that cared and that should be appreciated rather than giving up.
The only reason I would agree with you on this is if:
1 - they promised a 100% success rate - as this WOULD be "cancelling again"
2 - People had the opportunity or possibility to refund their tickets etc a week or two ago but because of the chance of revival they didn't and now they cant refund tickets.

[quote=gemm]
personally, and probably controversially, im annoyed at the people who stepped in with good intentions but 0 organisation and still blinded by hopes of an LA lan, completely unaware of how impossible the lan is to salvage, and continued to get people's hopes up, only to 'cancel' again a few weeks later.[/quote]

I love you gemm but I have to disagree on this one. From the beginning the attempts at salvation from the rest of the team were not promised to be successful, everyone was transparent that this wasn't a promised thing. Nobody said it was a 100% chance, yes the possibility was slim and everything you say is true but there was an effort from people that cared and that should be appreciated rather than giving up.
The only reason I would agree with you on this is if:
1 - they promised a 100% success rate - as this WOULD be "cancelling again"
2 - People had the opportunity or possibility to refund their tickets etc a week or two ago but because of the chance of revival they didn't and now they cant refund tickets.
222
#222
12 Frags +
Shooshgemmpersonally, and probably controversially, im annoyed at the people who stepped in with good intentions but 0 organisation and still blinded by hopes of an LA lan, completely unaware of how impossible the lan is to salvage, and continued to get people's hopes up, only to 'cancel' again a few weeks later.
I love you gemm but I have to disagree on this one. From the beginning the attempts at salvation from the rest of the team were not promised to be successful, everyone was transparent that this wasn't a promised thing. Nobody said it was a 100% chance, yes the possibility was slim and everything you say is true but there was an effort from people that cared and that should be appreciated rather than giving up.
The only reason I would agree with you on this is if:
1 - they promised a 100% success rate - as this WOULD be "cancelling again"
2 - People had the opportunity or possibility to refund their tickets etc a week or two ago but because of the chance of revival they didn't and now they cant refund tickets.

To further this, people were told NOT to buy more tickets or accommodations, and were encouraged to cancel if waiting would have put them at risk of not being able to.

Also, the team assembled was a mixture of realistic and experienced in doing exactly what is being said could not be done. Throwing a lan in 2 months and saving an event are hard, but not impossible, and not unprecedented. It had been done several times by several of the community members that stepped up.

This re-"cancel" comes from the people who were most likely to be able to do it so I can feel pretty comfortable (and it helps that I'm in the discord where they were organising it so I have direct affirmative knowledge of this) that if they could not do it, it could not be done.

[quote=Shoosh][quote=gemm]
personally, and probably controversially, im annoyed at the people who stepped in with good intentions but 0 organisation and still blinded by hopes of an LA lan, completely unaware of how impossible the lan is to salvage, and continued to get people's hopes up, only to 'cancel' again a few weeks later.[/quote]

I love you gemm but I have to disagree on this one. From the beginning the attempts at salvation from the rest of the team were not promised to be successful, everyone was transparent that this wasn't a promised thing. Nobody said it was a 100% chance, yes the possibility was slim and everything you say is true but there was an effort from people that cared and that should be appreciated rather than giving up.
The only reason I would agree with you on this is if:
1 - they promised a 100% success rate - as this WOULD be "cancelling again"
2 - People had the opportunity or possibility to refund their tickets etc a week or two ago but because of the chance of revival they didn't and now they cant refund tickets.[/quote]

To further this, people were told NOT to buy more tickets or accommodations, and were encouraged to cancel if waiting would have put them at risk of not being able to.

Also, the team assembled was a mixture of realistic and experienced in doing exactly what is being said could not be done. Throwing a lan in 2 months and saving an event are hard, but not impossible, and not unprecedented. It had been done several times by several of the community members that stepped up.

This re-"cancel" comes from the people who were most likely to be able to do it so I can feel pretty comfortable (and it helps that I'm in the discord where they were organising it so I have direct affirmative knowledge of this) that if they could not do it, it could not be done.
223
#223
-9 Frags +

wasn't really my main point but ok

Shooshgemm1 - they promised a 100% success rate - as this WOULD be "cancelling again"

tino's message said "has now been cancelled for a third time," that's where i got that word from. i know nothing was really promised so it's not really cancelling, hence why i put it in quotes

Shoosh2 - People had the opportunity or possibility to refund their tickets etc a week or two ago but because of the chance of revival they didn't and now they cant refund tickets.

that was my main worry when people started posting about attempting to salvage the lan (of their own accord and without any actual deliverables at that point other than a vague idea of "lets do lan").

drshdwpuppetThis re-"cancel" comes from the people who were most likely to be able to do it so I can feel pretty comfortable (and it helps that I'm in the discord where they were organising it so I have direct affirmative knowledge of this) that if they could not do it, it could not be done.

again this isn't really my main point and i dont wanna put people down who are making the effort, but im in this discord too and got the exact opposite view.

wasn't really my main point but ok

[quote=Shoosh][quote=gemm][/quote]1 - they promised a 100% success rate - as this WOULD be "cancelling again"[/quote]

tino's message said "has now been cancelled for a third time," that's where i got that word from. i know nothing was really promised so it's not really cancelling, hence why i put it in quotes

[quote=Shoosh]2 - People had the opportunity or possibility to refund their tickets etc a week or two ago but because of the chance of revival they didn't and now they cant refund tickets.[/quote]

that was my main worry when people started posting about attempting to salvage the lan (of their own accord and without any actual deliverables at that point other than a vague idea of "lets do lan").

[quote=drshdwpuppet]This re-"cancel" comes from the people who were most likely to be able to do it so I can feel pretty comfortable (and it helps that I'm in the discord where they were organising it so I have direct affirmative knowledge of this) that if they could not do it, it could not be done.[/quote]

again this isn't really my main point and i dont wanna put people down who are making the effort, but im in this discord too and got the exact opposite view.
224
#224
32 Frags +
alfaI still don't know why I got banned

TSC told you (in dms that you posted on tftv) that he had received reports and evidence of harassment. I feel like you have to be super dense to not understand why people with evidence of harassment don't give that information to the accused.

Even if the evidence isn't concrete or justification of a ban, it's pretty silly to think that someone that's accused should be told "oh hey this person you harassed, they told us, hope you don't do it again!"

[quote=alfa]I still don't know why I got banned[/quote]

TSC told you (in dms that you posted on tftv) that he had received reports and evidence of harassment. I feel like you have to be super dense to not understand why people with evidence of harassment don't give that information to the accused.

Even if the evidence isn't concrete or justification of a ban, it's pretty silly to think that someone that's accused should be told "oh hey this person you harassed, they told us, hope you don't do it again!"
225
#225
-2 Frags +
PetealfaI still don't know why I got banned
TSC told you (in dms that you posted on tftv) that he had received reports and evidence of harassment. I feel like you have to be super dense to not understand why people with evidence of harassment don't give that information to the accused.

Even if the evidence isn't concrete or justification of a ban, it's pretty silly to think that someone that's accused should be told "oh hey this person you harassed, they told us, hope you don't do it again!"

It would be like if a kid approached his principle about getting bullied and then later that day the principle invites the bully into his office and goes “so jimmy said you beat him up yesterday after school...”

That always works out

[quote=Pete][quote=alfa]I still don't know why I got banned[/quote]

TSC told you (in dms that you posted on tftv) that he had received reports and evidence of harassment. I feel like you have to be super dense to not understand why people with evidence of harassment don't give that information to the accused.

Even if the evidence isn't concrete or justification of a ban, it's pretty silly to think that someone that's accused should be told "oh hey this person you harassed, they told us, hope you don't do it again!"[/quote]

It would be like if a kid approached his principle about getting bullied and then later that day the principle invites the bully into his office and goes “so jimmy said you beat him up yesterday after school...”

That always works out
226
#226
1 Frags +

Just want to clarify, gemm is right about the message being a little off and the wording of it "being cancelled for a third time". This isn't entirely accurate as the LAN was never confirmed or even on for a third time for us to cancel. Probably could have worded it better, but people hopefully understand the message that is being sent regardless.

Just want to clarify, gemm is right about the message being a little off and the wording of it "being cancelled for a third time". This isn't entirely accurate as the LAN was never confirmed or even on for a third time for us to cancel. Probably could have worded it better, but people hopefully understand the message that is being sent regardless.
227
#227
-35 Frags +
PetealfaI still don't know why I got banned
TSC told you (in dms that you posted on tftv) that he had received reports and evidence of harassment. I feel like you have to be super dense to not understand why people with evidence of harassment don't give that information to the accused.

Even if the evidence isn't concrete or justification of a ban, it's pretty silly to think that someone that's accused should be told "oh hey this person you harassed, they told us, hope you don't do it again!"

You're a genius Pete, we should just ban people on hearsay and no concrete evidence from now on. Thank god you don't run anything in this game. Love how you take every chance to take a shot at me including non-ironically thinking I actually killed LAN after all of this happened.

https://i.gyazo.com/747c0b00587a7dba2fbf32e6c0aae819.png

According to you, it's my fault dashner raped half the production team, has an alcoholism problem, defends pedos from getting banned, samiface killing the LAN in a 3 sentence forum post and TSC peacing out with a twitter post.

Man I hold so much power to do all of those things with 1 forum post.

[quote=Pete][quote=alfa]I still don't know why I got banned[/quote]

TSC told you (in dms that you posted on tftv) that he had received reports and evidence of harassment. I feel like you have to be super dense to not understand why people with evidence of harassment don't give that information to the accused.

Even if the evidence isn't concrete or justification of a ban, it's pretty silly to think that someone that's accused should be told "oh hey this person you harassed, they told us, hope you don't do it again!"[/quote]

You're a genius Pete, we should just ban people on hearsay and no concrete evidence from now on. Thank god you don't run anything in this game. Love how you take every chance to take a shot at me including non-ironically thinking I actually killed LAN after all of this happened.

[img]https://i.gyazo.com/747c0b00587a7dba2fbf32e6c0aae819.png[/img]

According to you, it's my fault dashner raped half the production team, has an alcoholism problem, defends pedos from getting banned, samiface killing the LAN in a 3 sentence forum post and TSC peacing out with a twitter post.

Man I hold so much power to do all of those things with 1 forum post.
228
#228
40 Frags +
alfaYou're a genius Pete, we should just ban people on hearsay and no concrete evidence from now on. Thank god you don't run anything in this game. Love how you take every chance to take a shot at me including non-ironically thinking I actually killed LAN after all of this happened.

https://i.gyazo.com/747c0b00587a7dba2fbf32e6c0aae819.png

According to you, it's my fault dashner raped half the production team, has an alcoholism problem, defends pedos from getting banned, samiface killing the LAN in a 3 sentence forum post and TSC peacing out with a twitter post.

Man I hold so much power to do all of those things with 1 forum post.

this may be a slight overreaction

[quote=alfa]You're a genius Pete, we should just ban people on hearsay and no concrete evidence from now on. Thank god you don't run anything in this game. Love how you take every chance to take a shot at me including non-ironically thinking I actually killed LAN after all of this happened.

[img]https://i.gyazo.com/747c0b00587a7dba2fbf32e6c0aae819.png[/img]

According to you, it's my fault dashner raped half the production team, has an alcoholism problem, defends pedos from getting banned, samiface killing the LAN in a 3 sentence forum post and TSC peacing out with a twitter post.

Man I hold so much power to do all of those things with 1 forum post.[/quote]
this may be a slight overreaction
229
#229
1 Frags +

He's right though. In no world does someone get punished without any chance of defense on their part. That's not justice. How's he supposed to know what not to do anymore if he doesn't know what's considered harassment in the first place? Imagine someone getting sent to prison without even knowing what they did wrong.

He's right though. In no world does someone get punished without any chance of defense on their part. That's not justice. How's he supposed to know what not to do anymore if he doesn't know what's considered harassment in the first place? Imagine someone getting sent to prison without even knowing what they did wrong.
230
#230
19 Frags +
HuggesHe's right though. In no world does someone get punished without any chance of defense on their part. That's not justice. How's he supposed to know what not to do anymore if he doesn't know what's considered harassment in the first place? Imagine someone getting sent to prison without even knowing what they did wrong.

alfa has been told to stop being a dickhead a countless amount of times

[quote=Hugges]He's right though. In no world does someone get punished without any chance of defense on their part. That's not justice. How's he supposed to know what not to do anymore if he doesn't know what's considered harassment in the first place? Imagine someone getting sent to prison without even knowing what they did wrong.[/quote]

alfa has been told to stop being a dickhead a countless amount of times
231
#231
20 Frags +
alfaAll that shit by you

I'm suddenly regretting putting #FreeAlfa in my name

[quote=alfa]All that shit by you[/quote]
I'm suddenly regretting putting #FreeAlfa in my name
232
#232
20 Frags +

ya sorry alfa u a homie but this aint it
maybe instead of saying everyone else is malding u should introspect and realize it was u malding all along lmao

ya sorry alfa u a homie but this aint it
maybe instead of saying everyone else is malding u should introspect and realize it was u malding all along lmao
233
#233
16 Frags +

How did this thread make it to 8 pages lmfao; the title is LAN is cancelled. Thank you for letting us know, now lock it to prevent pointless posts and stupidity

How did this thread make it to 8 pages lmfao; the title is LAN is cancelled. Thank you for letting us know, now lock it to prevent pointless posts and stupidity
234
#234
-6 Frags +

every day is a bruh moment

every day is a bruh moment
235
#235
-11 Frags +
VeccHuggesHe's right though. In no world does someone get punished without any chance of defense on their part. That's not justice. How's he supposed to know what not to do anymore if he doesn't know what's considered harassment in the first place? Imagine someone getting sent to prison without even knowing what they did wrong.
alfa has been told to stop being a dickhead a countless amount of times

Ok and at no point have I been barred from an event/league/tournament for talking shit? Which is why I was appalled by the decision since I know for a fact I didn't say anything to that degree to anyone to warrant anything like that. So yeah I have the right to know the reason since it (was) kind of a big tournament??

But according to Pete that information does not matter, so next time there is a LAN and he qualifies I could just make an alt account named Pete, harass myself with the alt account I made and report it to the admins to ban him. And he has no right to know because I will demand privacy & protection from him, so what the fuck can he do about it?

That seems fair yes? If me pointing out a flaw in this logic seems far fetched to you, then let's just get rid of any ban explanations in RGL/UGC/ETF2L and let the admins go to town. But you know, any real discussion is dwarfed by either a) personal attack or b) lol malding so doubt this post resonates with you at all.

[quote=Vecc][quote=Hugges]He's right though. In no world does someone get punished without any chance of defense on their part. That's not justice. How's he supposed to know what not to do anymore if he doesn't know what's considered harassment in the first place? Imagine someone getting sent to prison without even knowing what they did wrong.[/quote]

alfa has been told to stop being a dickhead a countless amount of times[/quote]

Ok and at no point have I been barred from an event/league/tournament for talking shit? Which is why I was appalled by the decision since I know for a fact I didn't say anything to that degree to anyone to warrant anything like that. So yeah I have the right to know the reason since it (was) kind of a big tournament??

But according to Pete that information does not matter, so next time there is a LAN and he qualifies I could just make an alt account named Pete, harass myself with the alt account I made and report it to the admins to ban him. And he has no right to know because I will demand privacy & protection from him, so what the fuck can he do about it?

That seems fair yes? If me pointing out a flaw in this logic seems far fetched to you, then let's just get rid of any ban explanations in RGL/UGC/ETF2L and let the admins go to town. But you know, any real discussion is dwarfed by either a) personal attack or b) lol malding so doubt this post resonates with you at all.
236
#236
13 Frags +
alfaOk and at no point have I been barred from an event/league/tournament for talking shit? Which is why I was appalled by the decision since I know for a fact I didn't say anything to that degree to anyone to warrant anything like that. So yeah I have the right to know the reason since it (was) kind of a big tournament??

But according to Pete that information does not matter, so next time there is a LAN and he qualifies I could just make an alt account named Pete, harass myself with the alt account I made and report it to the admins to ban him. And he has no right to know because I will demand privacy & protection from him, so what the fuck can he do about it?

That seems fair yes? If me pointing out a flaw in this logic seems far fetched to you, then let's just get rid of any ban explanations in RGL/UGC/ETF2L and let the admins go to town.

Having an explanation for being banned for cheating is a completely different case from if you are harassing somebody wtf are you talking about lmao you keep just taking what people are saying way out of proportion to try and straw man them into saying something they're not

Granted, I don't think you actually harassed anybody (unless arguing with scratch in pugchamp chat counts LMAO) but Pete does have a point: if someone actually did want to report someone for harassing them obviously the admins shouldn't tell the person 'hey this person reported you for harassing them, but surely you won't do that even more now that you've been banned from the tournament so we're fine giving you their name'

[quote=alfa]Ok and at no point have I been barred from an event/league/tournament for talking shit? Which is why I was appalled by the decision since I know for a fact I didn't say anything to that degree to anyone to warrant anything like that. So yeah I have the right to know the reason since it (was) kind of a big tournament??

But according to Pete that information does not matter, so next time there is a LAN and he qualifies I could just make an alt account named Pete, harass myself with the alt account I made and report it to the admins to ban him. And he has no right to know because I will demand privacy & protection from him, so what the fuck can he do about it?

That seems fair yes? If me pointing out a flaw in this logic seems far fetched to you, then let's just get rid of any ban explanations in RGL/UGC/ETF2L and let the admins go to town.[/quote]
Having an explanation for being banned for cheating is a completely different case from if you are harassing somebody wtf are you talking about lmao you keep just taking what people are saying way out of proportion to try and straw man them into saying something they're not

Granted, I don't think you actually harassed anybody (unless arguing with scratch in pugchamp chat counts LMAO) but Pete does have a point: if someone actually did want to report someone for harassing them obviously the admins shouldn't tell the person 'hey this person reported you for harassing them, but surely you won't do that even more now that you've been banned from the tournament so we're fine giving you their name'
237
#237
-7 Frags +
bearodactylalfaVeccHuggesHe's right though. In no world does someone get punished without any chance of defense on their part. That's not justice. How's he supposed to know what not to do anymore if he doesn't know what's considered harassment in the first place? Imagine someone getting sent to prison without even knowing what they did wrong.
alfa has been told to stop being a dickhead a countless amount of times

Ok and at no point have I been barred from an event/league/tournament for talking shit? Which is why I was appalled by the decision since I know for a fact I didn't say anything to that degree to anyone to warrant anything like that. So yeah I have the right to know the reason since it (was) kind of a big tournament??

But according to Pete that information does not matter, so next time there is a LAN and he qualifies I could just make an alt account named Pete, harass myself with the alt account I made and report it to the admins to ban him. And he has no right to know because I will demand privacy & protection from him, so what the fuck can he do about it?

That seems fair yes? If me pointing out a flaw in this logic seems far fetched to you, then let's just get rid of any ban explanations in RGL/UGC/ETF2L and let the admins go to town.
Having an explanation for being banned for cheating is a completely different case from if you are harassing somebody wtf are you talking about lmao you keep just taking what people are saying way out of proportion to try and straw man them into saying something they're not.

Granted, I don't think you actually harassed anybody (unless arguing with scratch in pugchamp chat counts LMAO) but Pete does have a point: if someone actually did want to report someone for harassing them obviously the admins shouldn't tell the person 'hey this person reported you for harassing them, but surely you won't do that even more now that you've been banned from the tournament so we're fine giving you their name'

When in the fuck did I ever say I wanted names? I wanted to know know what I said that got me banned and that was it. Literally, I don't care who supposedly reported me, but I do have the right to know what I got banned for. So no, Pete's point is absolutely fucking stupid, we're not in a court room where I will literally find the "victim" and end them for supposedly getting me banned. We're in an online game, the fuck am I gonna do to someone, spam binds at them? And I could care less about who did it, the essence of what was said that could get a person banned is what's important.

Tell me one single game where anyone got banned for 0 reason and they weren't told why. Every single player to ever get banned for something had a reason disclosed PUBLICLY so there is no doubt on that decision (which is why RGL admins got shit on when they showed their reasoning for some of the bans they did last season). If you think that me saying that reasoning is required behind a ban, then I'm sorry but you have 0 idea what you're even talking about. No ban can go around with vague reasoning, it was made a huge case MULTIPLE times in the past by people that it's fucking stupid to do that.

[quote=bearodactyl][quote=alfa][quote=Vecc][quote=Hugges]He's right though. In no world does someone get punished without any chance of defense on their part. That's not justice. How's he supposed to know what not to do anymore if he doesn't know what's considered harassment in the first place? Imagine someone getting sent to prison without even knowing what they did wrong.[/quote]

alfa has been told to stop being a dickhead a countless amount of times[/quote]

Ok and at no point have I been barred from an event/league/tournament for talking shit? Which is why I was appalled by the decision since I know for a fact I didn't say anything to that degree to anyone to warrant anything like that. So yeah I have the right to know the reason since it (was) kind of a big tournament??

But according to Pete that information does not matter, so next time there is a LAN and he qualifies I could just make an alt account named Pete, harass myself with the alt account I made and report it to the admins to ban him. And he has no right to know because I will demand privacy & protection from him, so what the fuck can he do about it?

That seems fair yes? If me pointing out a flaw in this logic seems far fetched to you, then let's just get rid of any ban explanations in RGL/UGC/ETF2L and let the admins go to town.[/quote]
Having an explanation for being banned for cheating is a completely different case from if you are harassing somebody wtf are you talking about lmao you keep just taking what people are saying way out of proportion to try and straw man them into saying something they're not.

Granted, I don't think you actually harassed anybody (unless arguing with scratch in pugchamp chat counts LMAO) but Pete does have a point: if someone actually did want to report someone for harassing them obviously the admins shouldn't tell the person 'hey this person reported you for harassing them, but surely you won't do that even more now that you've been banned from the tournament so we're fine giving you their name'[/quote]

When in the fuck did I ever say I wanted names? I wanted to know know what I said that got me banned and that was it. Literally, I don't care who supposedly reported me, but I do have the right to know what I got banned for. So no, Pete's point is absolutely fucking stupid, we're not in a court room where I will literally find the "victim" and end them for supposedly getting me banned. We're in an online game, the fuck am I gonna do to someone, spam binds at them? And I could care less about who did it, the essence of what was said that could get a person banned is what's important.

Tell me one single game where anyone got banned for 0 reason and they weren't told why. Every single player to ever get banned for something had a reason disclosed PUBLICLY so there is no doubt on that decision (which is why RGL admins got shit on when they showed their reasoning for some of the bans they did last season). If you think that me saying that reasoning is required behind a ban, then I'm sorry but you have 0 idea what you're even talking about. No ban can go around with vague reasoning, it was made a huge case MULTIPLE times in the past by people that it's fucking stupid to do that.
238
#238
15 Frags +
alfaWhen in the fuck did I ever say I wanted names? I wanted to know know what I said that got me banned and that was it. Literally, I don't care who supposedly reported me, but I do have the right to know what I got banned for.

I mean from the admin's perspective it's sort of a hard call because if they give you a quote or something it might reveal who the person was because you remembered it. I agree if it was racism or something like that they should have told you but at the end of the day I'm pretty sure they're not gonna tell you if it was just regular harassment (granted, it's also sorta a tough call to say if something is genuinely harassment versus just shit talking and having beef with someone)

alfaSo no, Pete's point is absolutely fucking stupid, we're not in a court room where I will literally find the "victim" and end them for supposedly getting me banned. We're in an online game, the fuck am I gonna do to someone, spam binds at them? And I could care less about who did it, the essence of what was said that could get a person banned is what's important.

I totally agree there should be transparency for what actually is bannable. But If someone reported you for harassing them over the internet, then the fear is presumably of you doing that even more (spamming discord/twitter dm's or whatever it may be). I'm sure usually spamming binds is just stupid banter but you can also obviously spam binds to harass someone (e.g., transphobic/homophobic/racist shit)

alfaEvery single player to ever get banned for something had a reason disclosed PUBLICLY

This is quite an assertion we have here.

[quote=alfa]When in the fuck did I ever say I wanted names? I wanted to know know what I said that got me banned and that was it. Literally, I don't care who supposedly reported me, but I do have the right to know what I got banned for.[/quote]
I mean from the admin's perspective it's sort of a hard call because if they give you a quote or something it might reveal who the person was because you remembered it. I agree if it was racism or something like that they should have told you but at the end of the day I'm pretty sure they're not gonna tell you if it was just regular harassment (granted, it's also sorta a tough call to say if something is genuinely harassment versus just shit talking and having beef with someone)

[quote=alfa]So no, Pete's point is absolutely fucking stupid, we're not in a court room where I will literally find the "victim" and end them for supposedly getting me banned. We're in an online game, the fuck am I gonna do to someone, spam binds at them? And I could care less about who did it, the essence of what was said that could get a person banned is what's important.[/quote]
I totally agree there should be transparency for what actually is bannable. But If someone reported you for harassing them over the internet, then the fear is presumably of you doing that even more (spamming discord/twitter dm's or whatever it may be). I'm sure usually spamming binds is just stupid banter but you can also obviously spam binds to harass someone (e.g., transphobic/homophobic/racist shit)

[quote=alfa]Every single player to ever get banned for something had a reason disclosed PUBLICLY[/quote]
This is quite an assertion we have here.
239
#239
-9 Frags +
bearodactylalfaWhen in the fuck did I ever say I wanted names? I wanted to know know what I said that got me banned and that was it. Literally, I don't care who supposedly reported me, but I do have the right to know what I got banned for.I mean from the admin's perspective it's sort of a hard call because if they give you a quote or something it might reveal who the person was because you remembered it.

Ok then that decision is questionable at best. If you do not have concrete proof of literally a single thing said player said to get banned, you cannot just take away the chance of them being able to even defend themselves. In a real world scenario, this would be dismissed as a joke. But you know, since it's videogames I guess we just want to accept now that if someone says they were harassed we should just all believe it.

Read my post above and if you think that the test case of impersonating someone and getting them banned makes sense to you then I have no further reason to talk about this. Imagine that happened to you and had no chance to defend it, would you say that's ok? Not saying that's what happened to me, but it is possible that can happen to anyone and this wall of secrecy doesn't help anyone at all. ESPECIALLY, when people in this community have severe bias towards others and they just WAIT for the chance to fuck someone over. Idk if TSC had anything against me, but let's say if he did and he just banned me because he felt like it what's there to stop him from doing so and play it as "lol you got reported cya".

[quote=bearodactyl][quote=alfa]When in the fuck did I ever say I wanted names? I wanted to know know what I said that got me banned and that was it. Literally, I don't care who supposedly reported me, but I do have the right to know what I got banned for.[/quote]
I mean from the admin's perspective it's sort of a hard call because if they give you a quote or something it might reveal who the person was because you remembered it.[/quote]

Ok then that decision is questionable at best. If you do not have concrete proof of literally a single thing said player said to get banned, you cannot just take away the chance of them being able to even defend themselves. In a real world scenario, this would be dismissed as a joke. But you know, since it's videogames I guess we just want to accept now that if someone says they were harassed we should just all believe it.

Read my post above and if you think that the test case of impersonating someone and getting them banned makes sense to you then I have no further reason to talk about this. Imagine that happened to you and had no chance to defend it, would you say that's ok? Not saying that's what happened to me, but it is possible that can happen to anyone and this wall of secrecy doesn't help anyone at all. ESPECIALLY, when people in this community have severe bias towards others and they just WAIT for the chance to fuck someone over. Idk if TSC had anything against me, but let's say if he did and he just banned me because he felt like it what's there to stop him from doing so and play it as "lol you got reported cya".
240
#240
27 Frags +

Alfa, the way you're defending yourself is very concerning and just kinda makes me think you are actually harassing people and are trying to build a case to dismiss it if it actually arises. please write a paragraph defending yourself.

Alfa, the way you're defending yourself is very concerning and just kinda makes me think you are actually harassing people and are trying to build a case to dismiss it if it actually arises. please write a paragraph defending yourself.
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