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koth_clearcut
1
#1
koth_clearcut
0 Frags +

This is the mega thread and all updates will be added here along with what I am working on. If you have any questions or feedback I am the mapper so don't be afraid to post! I check the forum pretty often and will keep the page updated.

Current version: B15d

This updates change log:

Minor Patch:

-Removed candle lighting from the map. It was reportedly causing framerate issues and has thus been removed. Thank you Swissolo for the bringing this to my attention!

-Cameras have been added around the point and courtyards.

-Red garage has had its upper window changed.

-Blu garage has new props in its upper window.

-Fixed lighting on a crate at mid.

Previous version: B15c

That updates change log:

Minor Patch:

-Fixed clipping on Patio ramp and Lawn stairs.

-Fixed missing overlays that were not present.

-Changed a handful of textures.

-Resized some overlays.

What I'm working on:

Back to work on the map once more after a long break, and my ear is once again to the ground for improvements.

This is the mega thread and all updates will be added here along with what I am working on. If you have any questions or feedback I am the mapper so don't be afraid to post! I check the forum pretty often and will keep the page updated.

[u][b]Current version: B15d[/b]
[/u]
[b]This updates change log:[/b]

Minor Patch:

-Removed candle lighting from the map. It was reportedly causing framerate issues and has thus been removed. Thank you Swissolo for the bringing this to my attention!

-Cameras have been added around the point and courtyards.

-Red garage has had its upper window changed.

-Blu garage has new props in its upper window.

-Fixed lighting on a crate at mid.

[u][b]Previous version: B15c[/b]
[/u]
[b]That updates change log:[/b]

Minor Patch:

-Fixed clipping on Patio ramp and Lawn stairs.

-Fixed missing overlays that were not present.

-Changed a handful of textures.

-Resized some overlays.

[u][b]What I'm working on:[/b][/u]

Back to work on the map once more after a long break, and my ear is once again to the ground for improvements.
2
#2
koth_clearcut
3 Frags +

Balancing Frames - B12
Flanks and Frames

The flanks are once again on the chopping block and this time it's personal. Most matches played out with scouts and soldiers getting behind for practically free. This became a issue of contention with how to resolve the fragmented team fights. I decided that smaller less powerful flanks would resolve in them being used for plays and less for constant usage. Overall I like the change already more then the old flank, but it's not up for me to fully decide. Optimization has also been looked into, and it has certainly showed some positive results. Whether or not it is enough is to be seen.

My idea of callouts can be found through the tf2maps link.

Balancing Frames - B12
Flanks and Frames

The flanks are once again on the chopping block and this time it's personal. Most matches played out with scouts and soldiers getting behind for practically free. This became a issue of contention with how to resolve the fragmented team fights. I decided that smaller less powerful flanks would resolve in them being used for plays and less for constant usage. Overall I like the change already more then the old flank, but it's not up for me to fully decide. Optimization has also been looked into, and it has certainly showed some positive results. Whether or not it is enough is to be seen.

My idea of callouts can be found through the tf2maps link.
3
#3
koth_clearcut
2 Frags +

Attack > Defend - B13
PUSH

To better help attackers before competitive starts, I went ahead and made it easier to push the point. Scouts got more toys for the roofs. Soldiers got more refined clipping to help their rockets. Demo got an easier roll out as well. This will most likely be the last version till the season ends, and I hope it plays well.

Have fun!

Attack > Defend - B13
PUSH

To better help attackers before competitive starts, I went ahead and made it easier to push the point. Scouts got more toys for the roofs. Soldiers got more refined clipping to help their rockets. Demo got an easier roll out as well. This will most likely be the last version till the season ends, and I hope it plays well.

Have fun!
4
#4
1 Frags +

anyone else get bad fps and stuttering in this map?

anyone else get bad fps and stuttering in this map?
5
#5
-23 Frags +

please god someone make a different map and save me from this aids

please god someone make a different map and save me from this aids
6
#6
Process/Gullywash Refresh
12 Frags +
dcveplease god someone make a different map and save me from this aids

there are many people trying to make maps and i haven't seen u posting useful feedback anywhere

[quote=dcve]please god someone make a different map and save me from this aids[/quote]
there are many people trying to make maps and i haven't seen u posting useful feedback anywhere
7
#7
Spaceship Servers
2 Frags +

sturm if u slide me the vmf i'll add it (edited) as an arena in mge_oihguv_sucks_b3

deadass

sturm if u slide me the vmf i'll add it (edited) as an arena in mge_oihguv_sucks_b3

deadass
8
#8
-8 Frags +
dcveplease god someone make a different map and save me from this aids
[quote=dcve]please god someone make a different map and save me from this aids[/quote]
9
#9
3 Frags +
edindcveplease god someone make a different map and save me from this aids

Perhaps if you could be more specific about what you don't like about the map it might be more helpful.

[quote=edin][quote=dcve]please god someone make a different map and save me from this aids[/quote][/quote]

Perhaps if you could be more specific about what you don't like about the map it might be more helpful.
10
#10
8 Frags +

https://i.imgur.com/khlV02K.jpg

Doesn't really matter but it looks kinda stupid to have the door clip through this window hole

https://i.imgur.com/kWFXqVz.jpg

If you're going to blockbullets under this you should put some sort of chainlink fence texture to make it a bit more obvious. I would also consider redoing the displacements in spawn as it's a bit awkward to jump around due to them. I would also consider removing those bushes since they're a bit obnoxious as far as sticky traps go.

https://i.imgur.com/HVg0VEW.jpg

The way you clip roofs on this map is strange, you do it like most of the 6s maps on like half of it but keep the old style (Overhanging clips) on a bunch of them as well. I personally think the best solution is to just clip off from the actual building and then use something like func_illusionary so you can still have the nice looking overhang.

https://i.imgur.com/wbOPOgc.jpg

I don't really see a reason for this roof to be lower than the rest of the building. If you're trying to jump off the wall there you're going to hit your head most of the time.

https://i.imgur.com/ZFf7S6d.jpg

Another example of the inconsistant roof clipping

https://i.imgur.com/g298xYn.jpg

Another area you bulletblocked that you'd be able to shoot through on most maps. I know it isn't a major thing but if you're going to bulletblock it you might as well just have the two props directly next to eachother.

https://i.imgur.com/AxHURJa.jpg

The ramp leading up here is like incredibly steep and could probably be changed a bit to look and play nicer. I would probably just have it extend a bit out onto the concrete platform near the boxes.

https://i.imgur.com/RmMe0Ba.jpg

More clipping

https://i.imgur.com/MDgg7T5.jpg

This corner is kind of just a place where you'll get bounced and die, I would try to smooth it out so the building just line up with a fence or something.

https://i.imgur.com/ZyEMgGN.jpg

I also feel like you could raise the height of basically everything on the lower end and it would make the entire area feel a bit less awkward, there's a lot of displacement height variation that seems pretty unnecessary. If you had it roughly to where the red lines are you could get rid of that ramp on the side room and then just have a smoother transition to the middle entrance.

https://i.imgur.com/nOOc2fe.jpg

One of these requires a crouch and the other does not, I would probably just try to space it so you can just jump for both so going between the areas is smoother. Lowering the first one slightly should do that.

https://i.imgur.com/HI3vF1x.jpg

One way glass is a bit strange to have on this area of the map, I guess you have it to allow players to check for forward holds but I normally only see that kind of stuff on last points. I guess you can keep it but it is strange.

https://i.imgur.com/BWQ4RfF.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/nhWJaCP.jpg

The clipping on this area is pretty strange, not sure why you have clipped off the right side when you can jump through the left. I would also move that pipe thing up a bit (~256u) so that when you're jumping in/out of that area you're not going to be hitting your head every time.

https://i.imgur.com/yAKIp2S.jpg

Same thing with this, I guess you have this to prevent people from flying in to the packs but it is fairly awkward and the first time I played the map I figured you could just go over it or something.

https://i.imgur.com/0vKBWwb.jpg

Ramp could use some clipping on the edges to make going up it smoother.

https://i.imgur.com/mkwgTy5.jpg

This whole part of mid felt off when I played it, it seems like it's only purpose is to give scouts a way to get onto the enemies shed which feels unnecessary considering how dominant the class already is on koth maps. Also just having a small health/ammo in such a risky part of the map feels pointless, it's such an incredibly bad place to be as pretty much every class and you can just get basically the same pack/ammo by going into the shed which at least provides some level of cover. Much like the area near the larger pack I feel like the displacements are far too steep in this area. If you level it out a bit and change around that little stand thing you might be able to at least spam point or something from that area. Right now it just feels like a death trap.

https://i.imgur.com/sycmNHI.jpg

Goes in with my suggestion about raising the displacements around the point but having the ground around these boxes a bit higher would make it so you can crouch jump on them from more than 1 spot easily.

https://i.imgur.com/GWkBfqc.jpg

Clipping/displacement raise here would make this corner a lot nicer.

https://i.imgur.com/B3nDONt.jpg

More roof stuff, I do really like that sort of displacement ramp thing on the side since you could use that you stop fall damage on a high jump or maybe some sort of rampshot thing as well

https://i.imgur.com/ZtQ4E2i.jpg

Another overhang that can block jumps

https://i.imgur.com/FDcY3lf.jpg

Fairly unimportant but I'm not sure what's going on with these textures, I don't think it's my config as I have overlays and most other things on but it could be an issue with dx81, either way it looks off and there's quite a few of them around the map.

I'll likely update this once I've played the map a bit more most of my opinions on gameplay changes are just based on looking over the map since I haven't played it very much.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/khlV02K.jpg[/img]

Doesn't really matter but it looks kinda stupid to have the door clip through this window hole

[img]https://i.imgur.com/kWFXqVz.jpg[/img]

If you're going to blockbullets under this you should put some sort of chainlink fence texture to make it a bit more obvious. I would also consider redoing the displacements in spawn as it's a bit awkward to jump around due to them. I would also consider removing those bushes since they're a bit obnoxious as far as sticky traps go.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/HVg0VEW.jpg[/img]

The way you clip roofs on this map is strange, you do it like most of the 6s maps on like half of it but keep the old style (Overhanging clips) on a bunch of them as well. I personally think the best solution is to just clip off from the actual building and then use something like func_illusionary so you can still have the nice looking overhang.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/wbOPOgc.jpg[/img]

I don't really see a reason for this roof to be lower than the rest of the building. If you're trying to jump off the wall there you're going to hit your head most of the time.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/ZFf7S6d.jpg[/img]

Another example of the inconsistant roof clipping

[img]https://i.imgur.com/g298xYn.jpg[/img]

Another area you bulletblocked that you'd be able to shoot through on most maps. I know it isn't a major thing but if you're going to bulletblock it you might as well just have the two props directly next to eachother.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/AxHURJa.jpg[/img]

The ramp leading up here is like incredibly steep and could probably be changed a bit to look and play nicer. I would probably just have it extend a bit out onto the concrete platform near the boxes.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/RmMe0Ba.jpg[/img]

More clipping

[img]https://i.imgur.com/MDgg7T5.jpg[/img]

This corner is kind of just a place where you'll get bounced and die, I would try to smooth it out so the building just line up with a fence or something.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/ZyEMgGN.jpg[/img]

I also feel like you could raise the height of basically everything on the lower end and it would make the entire area feel a bit less awkward, there's a lot of displacement height variation that seems pretty unnecessary. If you had it roughly to where the red lines are you could get rid of that ramp on the side room and then just have a smoother transition to the middle entrance.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/nOOc2fe.jpg[/img]

One of these requires a crouch and the other does not, I would probably just try to space it so you can just jump for both so going between the areas is smoother. Lowering the first one slightly should do that.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/HI3vF1x.jpg[/img]

One way glass is a bit strange to have on this area of the map, I guess you have it to allow players to check for forward holds but I normally only see that kind of stuff on last points. I guess you can keep it but it is strange.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/BWQ4RfF.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/nhWJaCP.jpg[/img]

The clipping on this area is pretty strange, not sure why you have clipped off the right side when you can jump through the left. I would also move that pipe thing up a bit (~256u) so that when you're jumping in/out of that area you're not going to be hitting your head every time.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/yAKIp2S.jpg[/img]

Same thing with this, I guess you have this to prevent people from flying in to the packs but it is fairly awkward and the first time I played the map I figured you could just go over it or something.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/0vKBWwb.jpg[/img]

Ramp could use some clipping on the edges to make going up it smoother.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/mkwgTy5.jpg[/img]

This whole part of mid felt off when I played it, it seems like it's only purpose is to give scouts a way to get onto the enemies shed which feels unnecessary considering how dominant the class already is on koth maps. Also just having a small health/ammo in such a risky part of the map feels pointless, it's such an incredibly bad place to be as pretty much every class and you can just get basically the same pack/ammo by going into the shed which at least provides some level of cover. Much like the area near the larger pack I feel like the displacements are far too steep in this area. If you level it out a bit and change around that little stand thing you might be able to at least spam point or something from that area. Right now it just feels like a death trap.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/sycmNHI.jpg[/img]

Goes in with my suggestion about raising the displacements around the point but having the ground around these boxes a bit higher would make it so you can crouch jump on them from more than 1 spot easily.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/GWkBfqc.jpg[/img]

Clipping/displacement raise here would make this corner a lot nicer.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/B3nDONt.jpg[/img]

More roof stuff, I do really like that sort of displacement ramp thing on the side since you could use that you stop fall damage on a high jump or maybe some sort of rampshot thing as well

[img]https://i.imgur.com/ZtQ4E2i.jpg[/img]

Another overhang that can block jumps

[img]https://i.imgur.com/FDcY3lf.jpg[/img]

Fairly unimportant but I'm not sure what's going on with these textures, I don't think it's my config as I have overlays and most other things on but it could be an issue with dx81, either way it looks off and there's quite a few of them around the map.

I'll likely update this once I've played the map a bit more most of my opinions on gameplay changes are just based on looking over the map since I haven't played it very much.
11
#11
0 Frags +

in that last screenshot, why are you not allowed to crouchjump up to main
or why not just have stairs all across
very annoying to get caught on

in that last screenshot, why are you not allowed to crouchjump up to main
or why not just have stairs all across
very annoying to get caught on
12
#12
Spaceship Servers
-6 Frags +

i decompiled this cuz sturm blocked me (??) and took a look in hammer:

https://i.imgur.com/hXBoaC7.png

why are these blockbullets individual brushes??

https://i.imgur.com/veEw0Xt.png

https://i.imgur.com/ZeWPmhp.png

maybe its a decompile thing but i mean IDK lol

it's weird cuz theres plenty of other solid plane blockbullets on the map so like. why are these not just a solid plane like the rest?

i decompiled this cuz sturm blocked me (??) and took a look in hammer:


[img]https://i.imgur.com/hXBoaC7.png[/img] why are these blockbullets individual brushes??

[img]https://i.imgur.com/veEw0Xt.png[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/ZeWPmhp.png[/img]

maybe its a decompile thing but i mean IDK lol

it's weird cuz theres plenty of other solid plane blockbullets on the map so like. why are these not just a solid plane like the rest?
13
#13
3 Frags +
stephpics

they act the same way as func_detail to the compiler, therefore this doesn't matter

[quote=steph]pics[/quote]
they act the same way as func_detail to the compiler, therefore this doesn't matter
14
#14
koth_clearcut
7 Frags +

Open Skies - B14
Smooth Sails

The biggest gripes from last season were tackled head on in this update. Be it a performance issue or game play, I hope you find this update fixes it to a degree.

The changes will make scout a little better ( even though he doesn't need it). It will give soldier more routes, let demo go insane in terms of long range travel, and punish medic for hiding in shed. Sniper has received tiny buffs in the form of having slightly more sighlines then before.

Have fun!

Open Skies - B14
Smooth Sails

The biggest gripes from last season were tackled head on in this update. Be it a performance issue or game play, I hope you find this update fixes it to a degree.

The changes will make scout a little better ( even though he doesn't need it). It will give soldier more routes, let demo go insane in terms of long range travel, and punish medic for hiding in shed. Sniper has received tiny buffs in the form of having slightly more sighlines then before.

Have fun!
15
#15
7 Frags +

after playing this map this week honestly my biggest problem with it is performance. i drop about 300 frames depending on where i look in offline servers with no other players (even with toaster configs), and my frames are very irregular when actually playing on it with other people in the server.

Show Content
also you can barely stand on this tiny part on the top of the tower, although getting into this spot is incredibly difficult to the point of it being useless in actual games, but it does exist.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/627021105395400708/680224893454909506/20200220203037_1.jpg

after playing this map this week honestly my biggest problem with it is performance. i drop about 300 frames depending on where i look in offline servers with no other players (even with toaster configs), and my frames are very irregular when actually playing on it with other people in the server.

[spoiler]
also you can barely stand on this tiny part on the top of the tower, although getting into this spot is incredibly difficult to the point of it being useless in actual games, but it does exist.
[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/627021105395400708/680224893454909506/20200220203037_1.jpg[/img][/spoiler]
16
#16
5 Frags +

Can we get some physical indication of sky box height on the right side? https://i.imgur.com/149hAVs.jpg

I've fallen short on jumps multiple times from bumping it.

Can we get some physical indication of sky box height on the right side? https://i.imgur.com/149hAVs.jpg

I've fallen short on jumps multiple times from bumping it.
17
#17
8 Frags +

I'm going to be a bit blunt here, but I really disliked playing this map as a soldier. I'm pretty bad at koth, and my team lost quarter-finals on it so I'm obviously biased but there is very little that i found good. I'll start with the good. You can do a bunch of cool jumps over the cap, Sniper is not insanely powerful but can still play an interesting role.

Things I disliked :
- The general arrangement of the mid makes demo really good at spamming, and I thought the locations of the packs was awkward at best.
-The overall layout of the map means that while you can go behind mid-fight, people will see you and can in most cases easily chase you down. Going behind doesn't even grant good flanking abilities because unless you come from bats (which is pretty visible) you don't gain high ground/can't conceal yourself until you're close enough.
-The huts and the houses currently barely factor into the fights. Huts are too big and their ceiling is too low so you can't reliably flank in them and house is not great for flanking as explained above but I assume you can retreat through it at least.
-Roof control is arguably too important. This is my weakest point here, I felt like I spent a large portion of the game just battling over roof instead of getting to do the cool jumps but I can also understand that it might be my poor gamesense more than the map and would be curious to see if others feel the same.

Overall, I think currently clearcut is like a less interesting coalplant. I would like to still thank you for the work you've done, and wish you the best

I'm going to be a bit blunt here, but I really disliked playing this map as a soldier. I'm pretty bad at koth, and my team lost quarter-finals on it so I'm obviously biased but there is very little that i found good. I'll start with the good. You can do a bunch of cool jumps over the cap, Sniper is not insanely powerful but can still play an interesting role.

Things I disliked :
- The general arrangement of the mid makes demo really good at spamming, and I thought the locations of the packs was awkward at best.
-The overall layout of the map means that while you can go behind mid-fight, people will see you and can in most cases easily chase you down. Going behind doesn't even grant good flanking abilities because unless you come from bats (which is pretty visible) you don't gain high ground/can't conceal yourself until you're close enough.
-The huts and the houses currently barely factor into the fights. Huts are too big and their ceiling is too low so you can't reliably flank in them and house is not great for flanking as explained above but I assume you can retreat through it at least.
-Roof control is arguably too important. This is my weakest point here, I felt like I spent a large portion of the game just battling over roof instead of getting to do the cool jumps but I can also understand that it might be my poor gamesense more than the map and would be curious to see if others feel the same.

Overall, I think currently clearcut is like a less interesting coalplant. I would like to still thank you for the work you've done, and wish you the best
18
#18
koth_clearcut
3 Frags +

Clean Up! - B15
We want smooth walls!

This update is focused on reducing even more brushes that can be seen from mid. The update also features the newly art passed buildings and balance changes. Scout now has more routes from his side of the field, but can no longer get on the enemy roof as easily as before from tower. The point and roofs have been lowered to give the high ground less power. I hope that these changes are in the correct direction, and as always my ear is to the ground for feedback. Happy Clear Cuttin'!

Steam Workshop Link:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2107050255

Clean Up! - B15
We want smooth walls!

This update is focused on reducing even more brushes that can be seen from mid. The update also features the newly art passed buildings and balance changes. Scout now has more routes from his side of the field, but can no longer get on the enemy roof as easily as before from tower. The point and roofs have been lowered to give the high ground less power. I hope that these changes are in the correct direction, and as always my ear is to the ground for feedback. Happy Clear Cuttin'!

Steam Workshop Link:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2107050255
19
#19
-4 Frags +

Feedback:

Feedback:
20
#20
8 Frags +

Feedback from playing a few matches and many scrims on the map (sorry for huge walls of text just wanted to get my thoughts out, hopefully some of it is helpful):

- Please for the love of god fix the fps issues i get TERRIBLE fps looking at mid on this map
- Agree with aelkyr, pack availability is AWFUL, I get not wanting there to be a medium hp that's available during a team fight over mid, but it really feels like there is so much territory to cover just to find a pack, it almost makes it better for the soldier going behind because both packs are so far back and are around corners. Not sure where exactly the packs should be but bagel for example at least has a pack available on the side that is closer to mid but makes it less awful on medic because if you take spam on mid you can just pick it up, whereas on this map you're just SCREWED because you won't ever want to run back all the way to the packs. Via you can scout speed back to cliff easily and cliff is a good area to re-commit from, but on this map it's the opposite you would never want to have to go through the choke or up from the lowground again, you give up all your positioning and just lose mid if you try to get health. Via it plays into the passive mid where you can have soldier/scouts on china and cliff and demo playing passive on slope and the med can get a pack easily without completely leaving. Feel like this map design is just flawed to be honest.
- The whole upper area feels so claustrophobic and useless, it's like a shittier version of viaduct china except u can't see anything as a sniper and it's super awkward to ever push through the up top area because it's just a big doorframe where demos can easily put traps on (you can have sticks above the lower door that will kill you if you walk through either upper or lower which is really dumb and poor design). Pushing cliff on via is open and easy with lots of area to dodge, and doesn't have two doors right on top of one another (is that a thing on ANY map??)
- Also, agree that demo spamming on mid is really strong, it's such a small sightline if you're on your side of mid by the box, then can shoot the enemy roof on the left easily too.
- One soldier going behind can be good because the packs and distraction value, but unlike viaduct or bagel, there isn't really a flank to push or any interesting other areas to go. You can't go behind with two people (scout/soldier) because it just gives you insane lowground or super telegraphed re-entry
- House is the default way to exit which at least makes it useful, but I would argue it's a really bad terrain for fighting and just poor map design, if the best way to retreat is into there it means the other options must be very bad (which they are). I almost feel like removing the guard rails on batts and making it like via would be better for the map because that area is so useless, it would make sniper way too strong though most likely. I think the big issue there though is that the map is too big, the distance from one batts area to the opposite is huge and there's just so much terrain to cover. Not the best feedback sorry but maybe something to play around making the mid overall less giant or maybe just getting rid of the second story door instead of the rail because it's bad anyways and would make sniper less aggressively op. Right now sniper is basically useless because the sightlines are so bad, I think making it at least exist is probably good.
- Roof control is a big part and I will say it is a lot less interesting terrain to fight over than most other maps, snakewater up top or sunshine tower or the little huts are cool to fight over because they have different things to stand on and jump over, this map just has two giant slanted roofs which are the same flat surface for their entirety. I do like that they got shortened (slightly) but might be something to consider changing, bagel's flank areas at least are actually separate and you can push through them, although arguably it's better to only have one flank area like viaduct that both teams have to go through (my opinion)
- The cave area underneath the roofs is really dumb, if you hold properly it's almost impossible to force a medic (with a 4 man sack) because there are only two doors and a pocket and demo can completely block them off. Feels really lame, at least on via if you hold house the other team can get on to point and cap or send people behind easily to do good flanks and kill the people not in house, and there are 3 doors and not as much space so harder to hold as tightly. Via also has the alternative hold on cliff which has different pros/cons, but on this map it's either hold in one enclosed box or hold in the other one even further back which has one more door and no real advantages (house). Don't have much ideas on how to. change it, just feel like it's not a very interesting dynamic.
- Overall I didn't hate the map that much, there were some cool team fights and it was playable at least, but it really doesn't feel like a very interesting map, it's basically just a DM server because you can't coordinate any meaningful flanks and it's so easy to just chase down people behind since they have nowhere to go. The FPS problem is also a huge reason why it's just not fun to play, I normally get 300+ fps but on mid on that map I drop down below a hundred and it feels awful. I'm going to be honest, not sure why people like this map. It's definitely an easy map to win on if you simply have better DM, so I'm sure that's why ascent likes it lol (im sure laz does some genie shit with flanks and makes it work but I still think the map isn't very well designed around flanks)

Feedback from playing a few matches and many scrims on the map (sorry for huge walls of text just wanted to get my thoughts out, hopefully some of it is helpful):

- Please for the love of god fix the fps issues i get TERRIBLE fps looking at mid on this map
- Agree with aelkyr, pack availability is AWFUL, I get not wanting there to be a medium hp that's available during a team fight over mid, but it really feels like there is so much territory to cover just to find a pack, it almost makes it better for the soldier going behind because both packs are so far back and are around corners. Not sure where exactly the packs should be but bagel for example at least has a pack available on the side that is closer to mid but makes it less awful on medic because if you take spam on mid you can just pick it up, whereas on this map you're just SCREWED because you won't ever want to run back all the way to the packs. Via you can scout speed back to cliff easily and cliff is a good area to re-commit from, but on this map it's the opposite you would never want to have to go through the choke or up from the lowground again, you give up all your positioning and just lose mid if you try to get health. Via it plays into the passive mid where you can have soldier/scouts on china and cliff and demo playing passive on slope and the med can get a pack easily without completely leaving. Feel like this map design is just flawed to be honest.
- The whole upper area feels so claustrophobic and useless, it's like a shittier version of viaduct china except u can't see anything as a sniper and it's super awkward to ever push through the up top area because it's just a big doorframe where demos can easily put traps on (you can have sticks above the lower door that will kill you if you walk through either upper or lower which is really dumb and poor design). Pushing cliff on via is open and easy with lots of area to dodge, and doesn't have two doors right on top of one another (is that a thing on ANY map??)
- Also, agree that demo spamming on mid is really strong, it's such a small sightline if you're on your side of mid by the box, then can shoot the enemy roof on the left easily too.
- One soldier going behind can be good because the packs and distraction value, but unlike viaduct or bagel, there isn't really a flank to push or any interesting other areas to go. You can't go behind with two people (scout/soldier) because it just gives you insane lowground or super telegraphed re-entry
- House is the default way to exit which at least makes it useful, but I would argue it's a really bad terrain for fighting and just poor map design, if the best way to retreat is into there it means the other options must be very bad (which they are). I almost feel like removing the guard rails on batts and making it like via would be better for the map because that area is so useless, it would make sniper way too strong though most likely. I think the big issue there though is that the map is too big, the distance from one batts area to the opposite is huge and there's just so much terrain to cover. Not the best feedback sorry but maybe something to play around making the mid overall less giant or maybe just getting rid of the second story door instead of the rail because it's bad anyways and would make sniper less aggressively op. Right now sniper is basically useless because the sightlines are so bad, I think making it at least exist is probably good.
- Roof control is a big part and I will say it is a lot less interesting terrain to fight over than most other maps, snakewater up top or sunshine tower or the little huts are cool to fight over because they have different things to stand on and jump over, this map just has two giant slanted roofs which are the same flat surface for their entirety. I do like that they got shortened (slightly) but might be something to consider changing, bagel's flank areas at least are actually separate and you can push through them, although arguably it's better to only have one flank area like viaduct that both teams have to go through (my opinion)
- The cave area underneath the roofs is really dumb, if you hold properly it's almost impossible to force a medic (with a 4 man sack) because there are only two doors and a pocket and demo can completely block them off. Feels really lame, at least on via if you hold house the other team can get on to point and cap or send people behind easily to do good flanks and kill the people not in house, and there are 3 doors and not as much space so harder to hold as tightly. Via also has the alternative hold on cliff which has different pros/cons, but on this map it's either hold in one enclosed box or hold in the other one even further back which has one more door and no real advantages (house). Don't have much ideas on how to. change it, just feel like it's not a very interesting dynamic.
- Overall I didn't hate the map that much, there were some cool team fights and it was playable at least, but it really doesn't feel like a very interesting map, it's basically just a DM server because you can't coordinate any meaningful flanks and it's so easy to just chase down people behind since they have nowhere to go. The FPS problem is also a huge reason why it's just not fun to play, I normally get 300+ fps but on mid on that map I drop down below a hundred and it feels awful. I'm going to be honest, not sure why people like this map. It's definitely an easy map to win on if you simply have better DM, so I'm sure that's why ascent likes it lol (im sure laz does some genie shit with flanks and makes it work but I still think the map isn't very well designed around flanks)
21
#21
6 Frags +

https://www.teamfortress.tv/57319/clearcut-graphics-performance-troubleshooting

The map runs at 10 fps for my one backup player that I have to use this week who knows how to play scout so I guess we're hosed. In summary: The Candles aren't worth it. Cheats have to be on in order to disable dynamic lighting and we obviously can't do that.

The other thing that might contribute to fps issues is that the map has a bunch of full tree models around the perimeter (though only on the red side anymore). Often stuff like this is in the 3d skybox or has a draw distance that is limited. So like the trees in the mid arena only need to be visible if you're in the mid arena. The ones by red spawn only need to be visible if you're in the spawn area (very small), etc.

https://www.teamfortress.tv/57319/clearcut-graphics-performance-troubleshooting

The map runs at 10 fps for my one backup player that I have to use this week who knows how to play scout so I guess we're hosed. In summary: The Candles aren't worth it. Cheats have to be on in order to disable dynamic lighting and we obviously can't do that.

The other thing that might contribute to fps issues is that the map has a bunch of full tree models around the perimeter (though only on the red side anymore). Often stuff like this is in the 3d skybox or has a draw distance that is limited. So like the trees in the mid arena only need to be visible if you're in the mid arena. The ones by red spawn only need to be visible if you're in the spawn area (very small), etc.
22
#22
koth_clearcut
7 Frags +

Patch - B15d
Change log:

Minor Patch:

-Removed candle lighting from the map. It was reportedly causing framerate issues and has thus been removed. Thank you Swissolo for bringing this to my attention!

-Cameras have been added around the point and courtyards.

-Red garage has had its upper window changed.

-Blu garage has new props in its upper window.

-Fixed lighting on a crate at mid.

Note:
I lost the original files of the map when I transitioned to working in the military, so if you find any bugs let me know! This version was decompiled from B15c and may have issues I am not aware of. SOAP dm may not work with this version, I'm looking into getting to work with the maker on this.
Have fun!

[b][u]Patch[/u] - B15d[/b]
Change log:

[b]Minor Patch:[/b]

-Removed candle lighting from the map. It was reportedly causing framerate issues and has thus been removed. Thank you Swissolo for bringing this to my attention!

-Cameras have been added around the point and courtyards.

-Red garage has had its upper window changed.

-Blu garage has new props in its upper window.

-Fixed lighting on a crate at mid.

[b]Note:[/b]
I lost the original files of the map when I transitioned to working in the military, so if you find any bugs let me know! This version was decompiled from B15c and may have issues I am not aware of. SOAP dm may not work with this version, I'm looking into getting to work with the maker on this.
Have fun!
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