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Muselk's criticism of the MyM update
31
#31
7 Frags +
clckwrkfahrenheitI'm honestly still really amazed at how many people still have the "TF2 is a dead game" prerogative even though it's literally always been as popular as it ever has been.

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

The game hasn't lost anybody because of this sentiment (even gained people arguably), but it creates a more cynical community.

lol it's even more amazing that people like you still give steam stats as a valid argument against the phrase "dead game," as if that phrase is directed at the entire 13 year old trader, hat hoarding playerbase and not the diminishing paucity of competitive interest in the game from top players and organizations alike

So basically you're saying that the competitive scene is dying but the game itself isn't dying?

[quote=clckwrk][quote=fahrenheit]I'm honestly still really amazed at how many people still have the "TF2 is a dead game" prerogative even though it's literally always been as popular as it ever has been.

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

The game hasn't lost anybody because of this sentiment (even gained people arguably), but it creates a more cynical community.[/quote]

lol it's even more amazing that people like you still give steam stats as a valid argument against the phrase "dead game," as if that phrase is directed at the entire 13 year old trader, hat hoarding playerbase and not the diminishing paucity of competitive interest in the game from top players and organizations alike[/quote]

So basically you're saying that the [b]competitive[/b] scene is dying but the game itself isn't dying?
32
#32
7 Frags +
clckwrkfahrenheitI'm honestly still really amazed at how many people still have the "TF2 is a dead game" prerogative even though it's literally always been as popular as it ever has been.

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

The game hasn't lost anybody because of this sentiment (even gained people arguably), but it creates a more cynical community.

lol it's even more amazing that people like you still give steam stats as a valid argument against the phrase "dead game," as if that phrase is directed at the entire 13 year old trader, hat hoarding playerbase and not the diminishing paucity of competitive interest in the game from top players and organizations alike

In any other context I would be inclined to agree with you. The incredible majority of Muselk's viewer base I would have to say is the average casual player who is aware competitive EXISTS but doesn't know anything about it.

If this were like the actual competitive community voicing their opinion I wouldn't use steam stats, but these are average TF2 players.

[quote=clckwrk][quote=fahrenheit]I'm honestly still really amazed at how many people still have the "TF2 is a dead game" prerogative even though it's literally always been as popular as it ever has been.

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

The game hasn't lost anybody because of this sentiment (even gained people arguably), but it creates a more cynical community.[/quote]

lol it's even more amazing that people like you still give steam stats as a valid argument against the phrase "dead game," as if that phrase is directed at the entire 13 year old trader, hat hoarding playerbase and not the diminishing paucity of competitive interest in the game from top players and organizations alike[/quote]

In any other context I would be inclined to agree with you. The incredible majority of Muselk's viewer base I would have to say is the average casual player who is aware competitive EXISTS but doesn't know anything about it.

If this were like the actual competitive community voicing their opinion I wouldn't use steam stats, but these are average TF2 players.
33
#33
26 Frags +

Comp isn't dying as a whole (maybe HL) but high level 6s is dying and the gangrenous foot that is ESEA-I is going to cause the entirety of the comp body to go into some serious shit if we can't find a way to save it.

From a pub -> Open level, players are about as active as ever. New players come and go as often as they ever did. The problem is a lack of interest or excitement in the top 10 or so teams

Comp isn't dying as a whole (maybe HL) but high level 6s is dying and the gangrenous foot that is ESEA-I is going to cause the entirety of the comp body to go into some serious shit if we can't find a way to save it.

From a pub -> Open level, players are about as active as ever. New players come and go as often as they ever did. The problem is a lack of interest or excitement in the top 10 or so teams
34
#34
17 Frags +
toads_tfclckwrkfahrenheitI'm honestly still really amazed at how many people still have the "TF2 is a dead game" prerogative even though it's literally always been as popular as it ever has been.

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

The game hasn't lost anybody because of this sentiment (even gained people arguably), but it creates a more cynical community.

lol it's even more amazing that people like you still give steam stats as a valid argument against the phrase "dead game," as if that phrase is directed at the entire 13 year old trader, hat hoarding playerbase and not the diminishing paucity of competitive interest in the game from top players and organizations alike
it's more the people who are still willing to play this game and can (could i suppose?) be introduced to competitive through matchmaking. when you still have people willing to play your game for any reason and have the ability to bring them to the shrinking competitive playerbase, the game isnt "dead."

plus most of the people who say "TF2 is daed!11!!1" are those same 13 year old hat traders you mentioned, and they don't even know about the section of tf2's playerbase that actually is dying (which is what i'd call tf2 right now, all in all.)

When you see someone like rando or someone on the forums say "dead game," it's obviously exaggerated. These people are playing the game, so it obviously isn't "dead" in that sense. It's more utilized to bring light to the situation that after several pivotal years without actual competitive growth, the game looks worse off after those 4 years than it had prior. And as the poster below me generously pointed out, the fact that the player-base you want to introduce to competitive has not grown substantially after this renaissance period of competitive TF2, it looks even less promising.

I'm not advocating the use of "dead game," but taking the term dead literally, instead of taking it for what it is, a snarky attack on the game's lack of growth for longer than you've probably watched competitive TF2, is what sparked this discussion. It really does not matter if the game has floated at the same number of players after all these years. CLEARLY, I should say, as the game hasn't benefited from it after all these years, even on a micro scale.

[quote=toads_tf][quote=clckwrk][quote=fahrenheit]I'm honestly still really amazed at how many people still have the "TF2 is a dead game" prerogative even though it's literally always been as popular as it ever has been.

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

The game hasn't lost anybody because of this sentiment (even gained people arguably), but it creates a more cynical community.[/quote]

lol it's even more amazing that people like you still give steam stats as a valid argument against the phrase "dead game," as if that phrase is directed at the entire 13 year old trader, hat hoarding playerbase and not the diminishing paucity of competitive interest in the game from top players and organizations alike[/quote]
it's more the people who are still willing to play this game and can (could i suppose?) be introduced to competitive through matchmaking. when you still have people willing to play your game for any reason and have the ability to bring them to the shrinking competitive playerbase, the game isnt "dead."

plus most of the people who say "TF2 is daed!11!!1" are those same 13 year old hat traders you mentioned, and they don't even know about the section of tf2's playerbase that actually is dying (which is what i'd call tf2 right now, all in all.)[/quote]

When you see someone like rando or someone on the forums say "dead game," it's obviously exaggerated. These people are [B]playing the game[/B], so it obviously isn't "dead" in that sense. It's more utilized to bring light to the situation that after several pivotal years without actual competitive growth, the game looks [B]worse off[/B] after those 4 years than it had prior. And as the poster below me generously pointed out, the fact that the player-base you want to introduce to competitive has not grown substantially after this renaissance period of competitive TF2, it looks even less promising.

I'm not advocating the use of "dead game," but taking the term dead literally, instead of taking it for what it is, a snarky attack on the game's lack of growth for longer than you've probably watched competitive TF2, is what sparked this discussion. It really does not matter if the game has floated at the same number of players after all these years. CLEARLY, I should say, as the game hasn't benefited from it after all these years, even on a micro scale.
35
#35
32 Frags +

Daily reminder that Starcraft 2 players don't think their game is dead

Daily reminder that Starcraft 2 players don't think their game is dead
36
#36
16 Frags +
eeeComp isn't dying as a whole (maybe HL) but high level 6s is dying and the gangrenous foot that is ESEA-I is going to cause the entirety of the comp body to go into some serious shit if we can't find a way to save it.

From a pub -> Open level, players are about as active as ever. New players come and go as often as they ever did. The problem is a lack of interest or excitement in the top 10 or so teams

i dunno, i definitely think even the HL/pubbiest of places (r/tf2) is beginning to make posts like "HOLY HYPE WHAT AN AIRSHOT" that's like some sick airshot from an etf2l regular season game instead of what was a year ago just some random dude on a pub shooting a guy with a random crit rocket 3 feet off the ground.

and the viewership of high level tf2 has increased.

one of the things I think is awful is the fact that valve doesn't even direct players to actual competitive anywhere officially in the game (technically stream UI, but most people just close that or dont look at it), and without that redirection, comp TF2 isn't gonna grow much from the update, even if they didnt fuck up matchmaking

[quote=eee]Comp isn't dying as a whole (maybe HL) but high level 6s is dying and the gangrenous foot that is ESEA-I is going to cause the entirety of the comp body to go into some serious shit if we can't find a way to save it.

From a pub -> Open level, players are about as active as ever. New players come and go as often as they ever did. The problem is a lack of interest or excitement in the top 10 or so teams[/quote]
i dunno, i definitely think even the HL/pubbiest of places (r/tf2) is beginning to make posts like "HOLY HYPE WHAT AN AIRSHOT" that's like some sick airshot from an etf2l regular season game instead of what was a year ago just some random dude on a pub shooting a guy with a random crit rocket 3 feet off the ground.

and the viewership of high level tf2 has increased.

one of the things I think is awful is the fact that valve doesn't even direct players to actual competitive anywhere officially in the game (technically stream UI, but most people just close that or dont look at it), and without that redirection, comp TF2 isn't gonna grow much from the update, even if they didnt fuck up matchmaking
37
#37
4 Frags +
clckwrktoads_tfclckwrkfahrenheitI'm honestly still really amazed at how many people still have the "TF2 is a dead game" prerogative even though it's literally always been as popular as it ever has been.

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

The game hasn't lost anybody because of this sentiment (even gained people arguably), but it creates a more cynical community.

lol it's even more amazing that people like you still give steam stats as a valid argument against the phrase "dead game," as if that phrase is directed at the entire 13 year old trader, hat hoarding playerbase and not the diminishing paucity of competitive interest in the game from top players and organizations alike
it's more the people who are still willing to play this game and can (could i suppose?) be introduced to competitive through matchmaking. when you still have people willing to play your game for any reason and have the ability to bring them to the shrinking competitive playerbase, the game isnt "dead."

plus most of the people who say "TF2 is daed!11!!1" are those same 13 year old hat traders you mentioned, and they don't even know about the section of tf2's playerbase that actually is dying (which is what i'd call tf2 right now, all in all.)

When you see someone like rando or someone on the forums say "dead game," it's obviously exaggerated. These people are playing the game, so it obviously isn't "dead" in that sense. It's more utilized to bring light to the situation that after several pivotal years without actual competitive growth, the game looks worse off after those 4 years than it had prior. And as the poster below me generously pointed out, the fact that the player-base you want to introduce to competitive has not grown substantially after this renaissance period of competitive TF2, it looks even less promising.

I'm not advocating the use of "dead game," but taking the term dead literally, instead of taking it for what it is, a snarky attack on the game's lack of growth for longer than you've probably watched competitive TF2, is what sparked this discussion.

I wouldnt really use the word renaissance, its a new breath but because of valve its like breathing in china smog. A better MM could have vastly improved the game but its pretty clear now that competitive players have to hold valves hand and guide it like a baby.

[quote=clckwrk][quote=toads_tf][quote=clckwrk][quote=fahrenheit]I'm honestly still really amazed at how many people still have the "TF2 is a dead game" prerogative even though it's literally always been as popular as it ever has been.

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

The game hasn't lost anybody because of this sentiment (even gained people arguably), but it creates a more cynical community.[/quote]

lol it's even more amazing that people like you still give steam stats as a valid argument against the phrase "dead game," as if that phrase is directed at the entire 13 year old trader, hat hoarding playerbase and not the diminishing paucity of competitive interest in the game from top players and organizations alike[/quote]
it's more the people who are still willing to play this game and can (could i suppose?) be introduced to competitive through matchmaking. when you still have people willing to play your game for any reason and have the ability to bring them to the shrinking competitive playerbase, the game isnt "dead."

plus most of the people who say "TF2 is daed!11!!1" are those same 13 year old hat traders you mentioned, and they don't even know about the section of tf2's playerbase that actually is dying (which is what i'd call tf2 right now, all in all.)[/quote]

When you see someone like rando or someone on the forums say "dead game," it's obviously exaggerated. These people are [B]playing the game[/B], so it obviously isn't "dead" in that sense. It's more utilized to bring light to the situation that after several pivotal years without actual competitive growth, the game looks [B]worse off[/B] after those 4 years than it had prior. And as the poster below me generously pointed out, the fact that the player-base you want to introduce to competitive has not grown substantially after this renaissance period of competitive TF2, it looks even less promising.

I'm not advocating the use of "dead game," but taking the term dead literally, instead of taking it for what it is, a snarky attack on the game's lack of growth for longer than you've probably watched competitive TF2, is what sparked this discussion.[/quote]

I wouldnt really use the word renaissance, its a new breath but because of valve its like breathing in china smog. A better MM could have vastly improved the game but its pretty clear now that competitive players have to hold valves hand and guide it like a baby.
38
#38
11 Frags +

"And as the poster below me generously pointed out, the fact that the player-base you want to introduce to competitive has not grown substantially after this renaissance period of competitive TF2, it looks even less promising"

Just to play the devil's advocate and continue to develop my point: the lack of direct player growth on the steam stats doesn't necessarily mean comp won't grow in the coming months either. The number of people playing 6s is up by several orders of magnitude now. I think to call MyM a total failure is going to take 6-18 months. We need time for the MM players to learn about ESEA and really get interested in coming here and getting good

which is why u should tag as | teamfortress.tv when you play MM but no one else does that

"And as the poster below me generously pointed out, the fact that the player-base you want to introduce to competitive has not grown substantially after this renaissance period of competitive TF2, it looks even less promising"

Just to play the devil's advocate and continue to develop my point: the lack of direct player growth on the steam stats doesn't necessarily mean comp won't grow in the coming months either. The number of people playing 6s is up by several orders of magnitude now. I think to call MyM a total failure is going to take 6-18 months. We need time for the MM players to learn about ESEA and really get interested in coming here and getting good

which is why u should tag as | teamfortress.tv when you play MM but no one else does that
39
#39
5 Frags +

Now that I think about it, what really is the difference between pub and comp mm? It's basically the same thing

Now that I think about it, what really is the difference between pub and comp mm? It's basically the same thing
40
#40
1 Frags +
clckwrkWhen you see someone like rando or someone on the forums say "dead game," it's obviously exaggerated. These people are playing the game, so it obviously isn't "dead" in that sense. It's more utilized to bring light to the situation that after several pivotal years without actual competitive growth, the game looks worse off after those 4 years than it had prior. And as the poster below me generously pointed out, the fact that the player-base you want to introduce to competitive has not grown substantially after this renaissance period of competitive TF2, it looks even less promising.

I'm not advocating the use of "dead game," but taking the term dead literally, instead of taking it for what it is, a snarky attack on the game's lack of growth for longer than you've probably watched competitive TF2, is what sparked this discussion. It really does not matter if the game has floated at the same number of players after all these years. CLEARLY, I should say, as the game hasn't benefited from it after all these years, even on a micro scale.

that's definitely fair, and I agree. I just didn't get the "it isnt growing when it should be, and that's what's bad" from the original post.

[quote=clckwrk]When you see someone like rando or someone on the forums say "dead game," it's obviously exaggerated. These people are [B]playing the game[/B], so it obviously isn't "dead" in that sense. It's more utilized to bring light to the situation that after several pivotal years without actual competitive growth, the game looks [B]worse off[/B] after those 4 years than it had prior. And as the poster below me generously pointed out, the fact that the player-base you want to introduce to competitive has not grown substantially after this renaissance period of competitive TF2, it looks even less promising.

I'm not advocating the use of "dead game," but taking the term dead literally, instead of taking it for what it is, a snarky attack on the game's lack of growth for longer than you've probably watched competitive TF2, is what sparked this discussion. It really does not matter if the game has floated at the same number of players after all these years. CLEARLY, I should say, as the game hasn't benefited from it after all these years, even on a micro scale.[/quote]
that's definitely fair, and I agree. I just didn't get the "it isnt growing when it should be, and that's what's bad" from the original post.
41
#41
17 Frags +

pubs and comp MM are world's apart if you're a casual player. Even casual and comp MM are vastly different. You might not notice because you're good, but new players seriously do just feel overwhelmed with how much more fast paced and intense even MM is compared to pubs

@toads about streams:

valve removed the stream opening by default and a lot of streams have less viewers now. We need to campaign for that to come back imo

pubs and comp MM are world's apart if you're a casual player. Even casual and comp MM are vastly different. You might not notice because you're good, but new players seriously do just feel overwhelmed with how much more fast paced and intense even MM is compared to pubs

@toads about streams:

valve removed the stream opening by default and a lot of streams have less viewers now. We need to campaign for that to come back imo
42
#42
1 Frags +
eeepubs and comp MM are world's apart if you're a casual player. Even casual and comp MM are vastly different. You might not notice because you're good, but new players seriously do just feel overwhelmed with how much more fast paced and intense even MM is compared to pubs

@toads about streams:

valve removed the stream opening by default and a lot of streams have less viewers now. We need to campaign for that to come back imo

yeah especially with new "FIND GAME" button, it won't be nearly as cluttered now.

[quote=eee]pubs and comp MM are world's apart if you're a casual player. Even casual and comp MM are vastly different. You might not notice because you're good, but new players seriously do just feel overwhelmed with how much more fast paced and intense even MM is compared to pubs

@toads about streams:

valve removed the stream opening by default and a lot of streams have less viewers now. We need to campaign for that to come back imo[/quote]
yeah especially with new "FIND GAME" button, it won't be nearly as cluttered now.
43
#43
41 Frags +

He is true on this: valve doenst know shit about how their game plays...

He is true on this: valve doenst know shit about how their game plays...
44
#44
24 Frags +

half of you guys are the same people who disagree with some of valve's weird decisions in this update, because reasonably, they still have countless things to fix and improve, but you're saying "how are you guys taking muselk seriously"

-_-

half of you guys are the same people who disagree with some of valve's weird decisions in this update, because reasonably, they still have countless things to fix and improve, but you're saying "how are you guys taking muselk seriously"

-_-
45
#45
22 Frags +
Corsahalf of you guys are the same people who disagree with some of valve's weird decisions in this update, because reasonably, they still have countless things to fix and improve, but you're saying "how are you guys taking muselk seriously"

-_-

i think they didnt watch the video and saw "muselk"

[quote=Corsa]half of you guys are the same people who disagree with some of valve's weird decisions in this update, because reasonably, they still have countless things to fix and improve, but you're saying "how are you guys taking muselk seriously"

-_-[/quote]
i think they didnt watch the video and saw "muselk"
46
#46
6 Frags +
consumonnHow many times can I reuse this.

how many times can wholegrain reuse this

Wholegrainguys look, muselk made a discouraging, pessimistic rant on a video game he doesn't even play anymore
[quote=consumonn]
How many times can I reuse this.[/quote]
how many times can wholegrain reuse this
[quote=Wholegrain]guys look, muselk made a discouraging, pessimistic rant on a video game he doesn't even play anymore[/quote]
47
#47
15 Frags +
sa3lence_I don't understand why people trash talk the Casual mode. It's the best thing in this update, in my opinion, there are still community servers, which serve the same purpose "vanilla" Valve server did before this update, so why can't people just play on these, instead of whining about how horrible the Casual matchmaking is.
I do though agree with some of his points about this update, like the nonsensical graphical and visual restrictions and how unpolished the Competitive matchmaking is, like there were NO visible changes to it since the beta... which is??? Why is this the final product people actually pay for???

its so frustrating sitting in my mostly empty pub while reading people whining that pubs dont exist anymore

[quote=sa3lence_]I don't understand why people trash talk the Casual mode. It's the best thing in this update, in my opinion, there are still community servers, which serve the same purpose "vanilla" Valve server did before this update, so why can't people just play on these, instead of whining about how horrible the Casual matchmaking is.
I do though agree with some of his points about this update, like the nonsensical graphical and visual restrictions and how unpolished the Competitive matchmaking is, like there were NO visible changes to it since the beta... which is??? Why is this the final product people actually pay for???[/quote]

its so frustrating sitting in my mostly empty pub while reading people whining that pubs dont exist anymore
48
#48
10 Frags +

Funny how some of you assume Muselk is trashing the competitive aspect of the game when he mainly argues about the changes to casual Team Fortress such as killing quickplay and replacing it with Casual Competitive.

Actually bothering to watch the video is too much effort though, I agree.

Funny how some of you assume Muselk is trashing the competitive aspect of the game when he mainly argues about the changes to casual Team Fortress such as killing quickplay and replacing it with Casual Competitive.

Actually bothering to watch the video is too much effort though, I agree.
49
#49
14 Frags +
speedyhis opinion is worth nothing when it comes to competitive tf2

But he isn't talking about comp tf2 is he?

I thought it was more about casual and how it's not quickplay pubs. I think he has a point. It would be nice for the old quickplay pubs to be an option as well, for when people want to fart around quickly.

[quote=speedy]his opinion is worth nothing when it comes to competitive tf2[/quote]
But he isn't talking about comp tf2 is he?

I thought it was more about casual and how it's not quickplay pubs. I think he has a point. It would be nice for the old quickplay pubs to be an option as well, for when people want to fart around quickly.
50
#50
4 Frags +
fahrenheitI'm honestly still really amazed at how many people still have the "TF2 is a dead game" prerogative even though it's literally always been as popular as it ever has been.

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

The game hasn't lost anybody because of this sentiment (even gained people arguably), but it creates a more cynical community.

I agree that the "TF2 is dead" thing is generally stupid and an empty criticism but TF2's playerbase has dwindled pretty significantly over time. It's been on a very consistent downhill slope since late 2014 (there was a short increase during Gun Mettle), where it peaked at 100k+ concurrent players. That's down to about 75k now. I don't know why people consider a game that pulls 75k concurrent players dead, but it isn't "as popular as it's ever been".

[quote=fahrenheit]I'm honestly still really amazed at how many people still have the "TF2 is a dead game" prerogative even though it's literally always been as popular as it ever has been.

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

The game hasn't lost anybody because of this sentiment (even gained people arguably), but it creates a more cynical community.[/quote]

I agree that the "TF2 is dead" thing is generally stupid and an empty criticism but TF2's playerbase has dwindled pretty significantly over time. It's been on a very consistent downhill slope since late 2014 (there was a short increase during Gun Mettle), where it peaked at 100k+ concurrent players. That's down to about 75k now. I don't know why people consider a game that pulls 75k concurrent players dead, but it isn't "as popular as it's ever been".
51
#51
8 Frags +

Tbh he DOES play the game, and he's not talking about competitive, just about matchmaking, but it's Muselk, fuck him and his opinion, amirite? Does that get me upvotes here?

Though I do think that Casual would be better than Quickplay, IF quickplay hadn't already killed most community servers.

Tbh he DOES play the game, and he's not talking about competitive, just about matchmaking, but it's Muselk, fuck him and his opinion, amirite? Does that get me upvotes here?

Though I do think that Casual would be better than Quickplay, IF quickplay hadn't already killed most community servers.
52
#52
0 Frags +

Even if casual is replacing quickplay forever, I think Valve really should tell people (I mean really shout at them on the main page) that they can go on community servers and replicate or even better the quickplay experience. I myself usually just forget about community servers in my haste to play.

I know, that would require communication from Valve, right?

Even if casual is replacing quickplay forever, I think Valve really should tell people (I mean really shout at them on the main page) that they can go on community servers and replicate or even better the quickplay experience. I myself usually just forget about community servers in my haste to play.

I know, that would require communication from Valve, right?
53
#53
1 Frags +
obe_fahrenheitI'm honestly still really amazed at how many people still have the "TF2 is a dead game" prerogative even though it's literally always been as popular as it ever has been.

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

The game hasn't lost anybody because of this sentiment (even gained people arguably), but it creates a more cynical community.

I agree that the "TF2 is dead" thing is generally stupid and an empty criticism but TF2's playerbase has dwindled pretty significantly over time. It's been on a very consistent downhill slope since late 2014 (there was a short increase during Gun Mettle), where it peaked at 100k+ concurrent players. That's down to about 75k now. I don't know why people consider a game that pulls 75k concurrent players dead, but it isn't "as popular as it's ever been".

Yeah "popular as it's ever been" were the wrong choice of words, I meant to say something to the effect of "as popular as it usually is"

[quote=obe_][quote=fahrenheit]I'm honestly still really amazed at how many people still have the "TF2 is a dead game" prerogative even though it's literally always been as popular as it ever has been.

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

The game hasn't lost anybody because of this sentiment (even gained people arguably), but it creates a more cynical community.[/quote]

I agree that the "TF2 is dead" thing is generally stupid and an empty criticism but TF2's playerbase has dwindled pretty significantly over time. It's been on a very consistent downhill slope since late 2014 (there was a short increase during Gun Mettle), where it peaked at 100k+ concurrent players. That's down to about 75k now. I don't know why people consider a game that pulls 75k concurrent players dead, but it isn't "as popular as it's ever been".[/quote]

Yeah "popular as it's ever been" were the wrong choice of words, I meant to say something to the effect of "as popular as it usually is"
54
#54
Tip of the Hats
39 Frags +

This is a perfectly reasonable video that addresses a lot of the core complaints within this update. The only point I disagree with is the removal of Quickplay in favor of Casual mode. At this update's current state Casual mode is the only refreshing part. It reminds me of when I pubbed back in 2010 and everyone in the sever actually played the objective and tried to win. I don't support the idea that makes it a no fun zone and super competitive, it's literally the game at its core.

This is a perfectly reasonable video that addresses a lot of the core complaints within this update. The only point I disagree with is the removal of Quickplay in favor of Casual mode. At this update's current state Casual mode is the only refreshing part. It reminds me of when I pubbed back in 2010 and everyone in the sever actually played the objective and tried to win. I don't support the idea that makes it a no fun zone and super competitive, it's literally the game at its core.
55
#55
2 Frags +
toads_tfclckwrkfahrenheitI'm honestly still really amazed at how many people still have the "TF2 is a dead game" prerogative even though it's literally always been as popular as it ever has been.

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

The game hasn't lost anybody because of this sentiment (even gained people arguably), but it creates a more cynical community.

lol it's even more amazing that people like you still give steam stats as a valid argument against the phrase "dead game," as if that phrase is directed at the entire 13 year old trader, hat hoarding playerbase and not the diminishing paucity of competitive interest in the game from top players and organizations alike
it's more the people who are still willing to play this game and can (could i suppose?) be introduced to competitive through matchmaking. when you still have people willing to play your game for any reason and have the ability to bring them to the shrinking competitive playerbase, the game isnt "dead."

plus most of the people who say "TF2 is daed!11!!1" are those same 13 year old hat traders you mentioned, and they don't even know about the section of tf2's playerbase that actually is dying (which is what i'd call tf2 right now, all in all.)

I agree, keeping our current competitive playerbase is important but not as important as introducing fresh meat. I was that 13 year old trader 4 years ago.

[quote=toads_tf][quote=clckwrk][quote=fahrenheit]I'm honestly still really amazed at how many people still have the "TF2 is a dead game" prerogative even though it's literally always been as popular as it ever has been.

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

The game hasn't lost anybody because of this sentiment (even gained people arguably), but it creates a more cynical community.[/quote]

lol it's even more amazing that people like you still give steam stats as a valid argument against the phrase "dead game," as if that phrase is directed at the entire 13 year old trader, hat hoarding playerbase and not the diminishing paucity of competitive interest in the game from top players and organizations alike[/quote]
it's more the people who are still willing to play this game and can (could i suppose?) be introduced to competitive through matchmaking. when you still have people willing to play your game for any reason and have the ability to bring them to the shrinking competitive playerbase, the game isnt "dead."

plus most of the people who say "TF2 is daed!11!!1" are those same 13 year old hat traders you mentioned, and they don't even know about the section of tf2's playerbase that actually is dying (which is what i'd call tf2 right now, all in all.)[/quote]

I agree, keeping our current competitive playerbase is important but not as important as introducing fresh meat. I was that 13 year old trader 4 years ago.
56
#56
-2 Frags +
toads_tfmuselk was right :O:O:O

If u read the thread more it said that cs had a smaller playerbase then tf2 did before they had matchmaking

[quote=toads_tf][url=https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/4o15sh/what_happened_to_competitive/d4d2kpo]muselk was right :O:O:O[/url][/quote]

If u read the thread more it said that cs had a smaller playerbase then tf2 did before they had matchmaking
57
#57
4 Frags +
truktrukThis is a perfectly reasonable video that addresses a lot of the core complaints within this update. The only point I disagree with is the removal of Quickplay in favor of Casual mode. At this update's current state Casual mode is the only refreshing part. [Casual mode] reminds me of when I pubbed back in 2010 and everyone in the sever actually played the objective and tried to win. I don't support the idea that makes it a no fun zone and super competitive, it's literally the game at its core.

Didn't watch the video so i'm only addressing the bolded part. but I agree 100%. Casual mode is absolutely great right now (outside of the obvious things like zero balancing, awful map choices like tons of Powerhouse, Gorge, etc.). People actually care about winning in Casual model - not dancing or handing out sandwiches. It's actually fun.

[quote=truktruk]This is a perfectly reasonable video that addresses a lot of the core complaints within this update. The only point I disagree with is the removal of Quickplay in favor of Casual mode. At this update's current state Casual mode is the only refreshing part. [b][Casual mode] reminds me of when I pubbed back in 2010 and everyone in the sever actually played the objective and tried to win. I don't support the idea that makes it a no fun zone and super competitive, it's literally the game at its core.[/b][/quote]

Didn't watch the video so i'm only addressing the bolded part. but I agree 100%. Casual mode is absolutely great right now (outside of the obvious things like zero balancing, awful map choices like tons of Powerhouse, Gorge, etc.). People actually care about winning in Casual model - not dancing or handing out sandwiches. It's actually fun.
58
#58
8 Frags +

i am sad

i am sad
59
#59
8 Frags +

I feel like people who are now whining about the lack of quickplay aren't the people who played prior to that update (whenever it came, like 2012?). TF2 pubs in my mind died back then. Quickplay is the worst fucking thing ever and while casual is essentially the same (I've heard it's better but I haven't tested) it really disgust me that people have the audacity to 'want' that back. Those people don't know what TF2 is and was about.

I mean I find 6s 100x enjoyable than those old community pubs ever were, but still.

I feel like people who are now whining about the lack of quickplay aren't the people who played prior to that update (whenever it came, like 2012?). TF2 pubs in my mind died back then. Quickplay is the worst fucking thing ever and while casual is essentially the same (I've heard it's better but I haven't tested) it really disgust me that people have the audacity to 'want' that back. Those people don't know what TF2 is and was about.

I mean I find 6s 100x enjoyable than those old community pubs ever were, but still.
60
#60
0 Frags +
SetletI feel like people who are now whining about the lack of quickplay aren't the people who played prior to that update (whenever it came, like 2012?). TF2 pubs in my mind died back then. Quickplay is the worst fucking thing ever and while casual is essentially the same (I've heard it's better but I haven't tested) it really disgust me that people have the audacity to 'want' that back. Those people don't know what TF2 is and was about.

I mean I find 6s 100x enjoyable than those old community pubs ever were, but still.

You're not wrong, but don't forget that because of quickplay a ton of the old community servers shut down.

[quote=Setlet]I feel like people who are now whining about the lack of quickplay aren't the people who played prior to that update (whenever it came, like 2012?). TF2 pubs in my mind died back then. Quickplay is the worst fucking thing ever and while casual is essentially the same (I've heard it's better but I haven't tested) it really disgust me that people have the audacity to 'want' that back. Those people don't know what TF2 is and was about.

I mean I find 6s 100x enjoyable than those old community pubs ever were, but still.[/quote]
You're not wrong, but don't forget that because of quickplay a ton of the old community servers shut down.
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